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- Taking the servers down for a roll back?!?!
Taking the servers down for a roll back?!?!Follow
OK. Go spend your entire weekend getting some of that double xp. Who's to say there won't be another rollback? Time is valueable. Although spending it playing a game might not be the best use of it, I usually enjoy it. I am however completely outraged regarding the way in which SOE has chosen to violate their own EULA by cheating loyal customers who had absolutely nothing to do with this issue. They made a mistake. Ok, it happens. No big deal. Just let it go and move on. No reason to worry about the EQ economy getting out of balance because it has been for such a long time already. They aren't the slightest bit concerened about people selling plat and accounts online. Happens regularly and nothing could be worse for the game imo. So what happens? SOE rollsback 1% of the characters( I find it very hard to believe it's only 1% based on the number of people I've talked to). Lvls, xp, raid flags, etc, all gone. Not to mention the plat issue. I finally sold an item on my trader that went for 20k. I don't have alot in my bank, don't buy plat online or really enjoy farming. So, that is a good deal of plat to me. It wouldn't have bothered me so much if I had been given the item back that was sold, but no, item gone and the money gone from my bank. This is their idea of the best way to have resolved this problem? I know this is a rent, vent, whatever. I have every right to do so. I love playing EQ and at least for now continue to do so, but I find their course of action here to be completely unacceptable. It demonstrates a lack of accountability on their part and very poor serivce at best.
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The problem was that people who had bought the items from the merchant then put them up in trader mode in the bazaar. How were people purchasing items from traders in the bazaar supposed to know that those items came from the npc merchants in PoK?
Common sence would tell you that yes some of these items that traders are selling shouldnt be there but what about the more common items like artisan seals and such? I sell artisan seals all the time and make a nice profit from it.
Common sence would tell you that yes some of these items that traders are selling shouldnt be there but what about the more common items like artisan seals and such? I sell artisan seals all the time and make a nice profit from it.
HOWEVER.
1, after about 6 hours everyone knew there was going to be rollbacks and that there was something wrong, so why not hold off on buying for 24 hours while it was sorted out?
2, Why blame SoE for the problem when it is CLEARLY the fault of greedy people trying to Exploit what was essentially a bug (a man made error really but essentially a bug)
Most of us arent blaming SOE for the original problem, it certainly wasnt something they could expect (this statement is only true if what they told us about how the bug occurred is true of course, considering the number of whoppers they have been caught telling the last three days thats not certain)
What most people are angry about is the entirely ham handed way soe dealt with the problem.
They scooped up hundreds of people who never touched one of the origina; tainted items in any way.
Some people are getting tainted because they had a bazaar seller up and someone who was tainted bought an ordinary item from them. Yes, I am saying that all they did was go into seller mode and they sold regular items that were looted from well before the patch. Someone tainted interacted with them and soe used a broad brush to tar the bazaar person too.
Some people have been tainted because someone who was tainted interacted with their guild hall. More then one person did nothing except raid, return to guildhal and sell of junk loot and put something into the bank in guildhall...blam they somehow became tainted from that.
And regarding the double exp weekend to make up for things....some of the people who have ben rolled back to naked corpses STILL dont have their gear back, this weekend is really going to help them a lot, isnt it?
Face it, soe had a problem that they then proceeded to turn into a disaster of epic proportion.
Giving them that the original problem wasnt their fault, cutting them some slack for laving the beta merchants up for almost an hour (even tho a gm was aware of them within the first few nminutes), they still screwed up the correction to an awesome degree.
They even failed in their attempt to save the economic impact, since their chosen method of rollbacs over two days actually allowed cheats to intentionally duplicate all of their itmes/ pp.
Btw, that how many bazaar sellers were tainted, cheats tainted themselves to guarantee that they would be rolled back then bought every expensive item they could find in the bazaar. There isnt a glossy drake hide or metallic drake scale for sale on 7th hammer now...the economy is in ruins.
Sliggoth, druid of the 7th Hammer
What most people are angry about is the entirely ham handed way soe dealt with the problem.
They scooped up hundreds of people who never touched one of the origina; tainted items in any way.
Some people are getting tainted because they had a bazaar seller up and someone who was tainted bought an ordinary item from them. Yes, I am saying that all they did was go into seller mode and they sold regular items that were looted from well before the patch. Someone tainted interacted with them and soe used a broad brush to tar the bazaar person too.
Some people have been tainted because someone who was tainted interacted with their guild hall. More then one person did nothing except raid, return to guildhal and sell of junk loot and put something into the bank in guildhall...blam they somehow became tainted from that.
And regarding the double exp weekend to make up for things....some of the people who have ben rolled back to naked corpses STILL dont have their gear back, this weekend is really going to help them a lot, isnt it?
Face it, soe had a problem that they then proceeded to turn into a disaster of epic proportion.
Giving them that the original problem wasnt their fault, cutting them some slack for laving the beta merchants up for almost an hour (even tho a gm was aware of them within the first few nminutes), they still screwed up the correction to an awesome degree.
They even failed in their attempt to save the economic impact, since their chosen method of rollbacs over two days actually allowed cheats to intentionally duplicate all of their itmes/ pp.
Btw, that how many bazaar sellers were tainted, cheats tainted themselves to guarantee that they would be rolled back then bought every expensive item they could find in the bazaar. There isnt a glossy drake hide or metallic drake scale for sale on 7th hammer now...the economy is in ruins.
Sliggoth, druid of the 7th Hammer
Well, I clearly did not read your "dozens of posts", but then I don't visit the forums very often. I'd rather play the game or do something else other than spend my life in here. Yes, greedy players also annoy me to no end also. But, nothing could be further from the truth when you say that this is not SOE's fault. 1) What people are angry about is the way SOE handled this when they chose to involve people who in no way tried to exploit. 2) SOE is in fact responsible for even having the test NPC's on the live servers to begin with. So, the best advice I can give you is: THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.
As far as I know, I haven't been affected by this. Any problem I have with this situation is strictly that of bystander who doesn't particularly care for how SOE handled things.
With that being said, I can't particularly see the big deal to where SOE would feel they needed to do anything about this. Of course, I wasn't on to see what all these vendors were selling, but I can't see where it would possibly be all that unbalancing.
How is the situation with the vendors any different than when they take servers down for a patch and come back up to find that Mob A in Zone whatever is suddenly dropping some item that was never intended? Peeps find out and immediately saturate that zone trying to kill that mob and get the cool toy. They have messed up loot tables hundreds of times and had players looting things off mobs that were never meant to drop those items. I can't remember a single time in those situations where toons were rolled back because of it.
It's a game! Come on! What's the big deal? So someone was able to buy 100 Artisan seals so they could make all of their master items So what?
Or how about all the plat duping that went on over the years? Did they roll back everyone involved? AND the toons that bought that plat?? And the traders who sold items bought with the duped plat?? And the guild banks directly or remotely involved??
The vendors were up for what, an hour or two?? There is no way a significant enough portion of any particular server population could have exploited the situation to a great enough degree to warrant this knee jerk reaction by SOE, especially when compared to previous exploits and how they were handled.
Further, while many are saying that the player base should have recognized this situation for what it was and not shopped at the vendors, I have to say that that is a pretty naive position to take.
Each and every time the servers are taken down to patch there is a chance that new content will be introduced into the game. We all know this and hope we will be able to benefit from it. We also know that most of the time new content is introduced there are aspects of it that were not intended to be introduced (such as wrong loot table or loot dropping every kill instead of rare, or perhaps the mob gives too much experience per kill). It is not unreasonable for a player to have thought these vendors were put in intentionally. It is also not unreasonable to think that SOE might "nerf" the vendors if/when they deemed it unbalancing to the game. Traditionally, those who milked these things for what they could were considered "lucky bastards" while those of us who didn't get in on it just plain missed out. It is NOT a situation SOE has traditionally dealt with by rollback.
With that being said, I can't particularly see the big deal to where SOE would feel they needed to do anything about this. Of course, I wasn't on to see what all these vendors were selling, but I can't see where it would possibly be all that unbalancing.
How is the situation with the vendors any different than when they take servers down for a patch and come back up to find that Mob A in Zone whatever is suddenly dropping some item that was never intended? Peeps find out and immediately saturate that zone trying to kill that mob and get the cool toy. They have messed up loot tables hundreds of times and had players looting things off mobs that were never meant to drop those items. I can't remember a single time in those situations where toons were rolled back because of it.
It's a game! Come on! What's the big deal? So someone was able to buy 100 Artisan seals so they could make all of their master items So what?
Or how about all the plat duping that went on over the years? Did they roll back everyone involved? AND the toons that bought that plat?? And the traders who sold items bought with the duped plat?? And the guild banks directly or remotely involved??
The vendors were up for what, an hour or two?? There is no way a significant enough portion of any particular server population could have exploited the situation to a great enough degree to warrant this knee jerk reaction by SOE, especially when compared to previous exploits and how they were handled.
Further, while many are saying that the player base should have recognized this situation for what it was and not shopped at the vendors, I have to say that that is a pretty naive position to take.
Each and every time the servers are taken down to patch there is a chance that new content will be introduced into the game. We all know this and hope we will be able to benefit from it. We also know that most of the time new content is introduced there are aspects of it that were not intended to be introduced (such as wrong loot table or loot dropping every kill instead of rare, or perhaps the mob gives too much experience per kill). It is not unreasonable for a player to have thought these vendors were put in intentionally. It is also not unreasonable to think that SOE might "nerf" the vendors if/when they deemed it unbalancing to the game. Traditionally, those who milked these things for what they could were considered "lucky bastards" while those of us who didn't get in on it just plain missed out. It is NOT a situation SOE has traditionally dealt with by rollback.
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1) What people are angry about is the way SOE handled this when they chose to involve people who in no way tried to exploit.
it seems to me that people are annoyed because they thought they could get away with something and it turned out they couldn't.
Start pointing the finger at the cheats who deliberatly f*cked it up for everyone and not the people wiping up the mess after them.
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2) SOE is in fact responsible for even having the test NPC's on the live servers to begin with. So, the best advice I can give you is: THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.
but no people after a quick buck, a nice short cut, they decided to exploit a bug, that is the crux of the matter. THINK BEFORE YOU BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MEERLY TRYING TO SOLVE A PLAYER CAUSED PROBLEM.
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Further, while many are saying that the player base should have recognized this situation for what it was and not shopped at the vendors, I have to say that that is a pretty naive position to take.
We are supposed to be the intelligent ones in the MMORPG world, a class above the morons who play FFXI or WoW, ours is supposed to be a thinking mans game.
Edited, Sat Jan 21 11:24:03 2006 by tarv
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SOE created an ideal situation for the truly criminal to profit
The game is susposed to have good and bad elements I really dont see how this effects the game other than to possibily reduce the cost of plat in the real world there by increasing the price of goods in Norath. The economy is hopelessly ruined once they allow plat sales. If you are talking about the profit made by plat sellers in the real world as Crimal. Then I would agree but that was not created by this issue. It is a game I can kill someone in game, but I don't see anyone whineing about murder!
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I agree with Tarv.
If the power goes out, do you go and loot the local Circuit City?
I personally won't but there are a crapload of people who will and think they will be able to get away with it.
If the power goes out, do you go and loot the local Circuit City?
I personally won't but there are a crapload of people who will and think they will be able to get away with it.
See my comments above and add the point that many will get away with it is the main reason they should just let it slide
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At least your sever was taken down - The Rathe just had rolling LD's for people....like a CA blackout in the summer.
Most guilds where raiding, and suddenly about 9 to 20 people where gone, and as they came back more would go...
Most guilds where raiding, and suddenly about 9 to 20 people where gone, and as they came back more would go...
This is the true crime if there is one I and many player get little enough time to play and for that to be effected like this is very sad.
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I just saw a systemwide message saying that the rollbacks are complete. I am sorry but the time between the "waves" of rollbacks was more than enough for a large portion of the items to be passed off. Looks like SOE just screwed a whole lot of people who had nothing to do with this. Well done yet again SOE
Yup They should have left it alone. Seem They had the "I am more uber than you , oops you got uber stuff illegally thats not fair I am not as uber now as I was " whinnie whine crowed Running there dission making for them. The right dission would have been to shut down as soon as they knew there was a problem remove the vendors and play on.
As far as double xp. I will take advantage of it "I hope" but I can see it now the line of peeps "lfmm no timer" in HHK will dwarf the fairy MM in its hay day for the next 48 hrs. I hope to get a level and 15 to -20 aa in the next 48.
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They rolled back because PEOPLE CHEATED
This is not a win loose game hince The actions of the "cheaters" will have little effect that can be pin pointed on the game .
just my 2 cp
Edited, Sat Jan 21 12:14:14 2006 by Trablin
tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:
[quote] Naive? ********* i bet that every server had people in /ooc warning people not to use them because it was UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY clear to all but the newest players that it was a mistake to put them in, it is naive in the extreme to believe that SoE would suddenly introduce vendors selling high end tradeskill items and near end products. i mean Hello? common sence anyone?
Hmm....first off, lets decide you are right. What about people who don't have the OOC channel turned on for whatever reason?
Second, were these SOE officials spamming OOC with this warning? Or people buying up the stuff to stick on their trader and not wanting you to compete with them by doing the same? Or well meaning players trying to save other peeps from potential trouble? How do you tell them apart? SOE wouldn't spam OOC, they'd take POK down and remove the vendors...that doesn't even require the whole server to come down.
Third, why is it naive to think SOE would suddenly introduce something everyone will go nuts for? Look at Slipgear's gem quest. Stats are great and effort to do the quest is minimal. Am I naive for believing SOE actually put this in the game this way on purpose??
SOE regularly introduces stuff into the game that they later regret and either nerf or take back completely. I cannot recollect a single time where they have chosen rollbacks to do the fix, especially rollbacks that are so far reaching that they consistently affect people not involved in the so called exploit.
It boils down to this:
Do you blame the SoE team who made an honest mistake or people who deliberately tried to exploit that mistake.
I know who I think should be to blame, but if we disagree on that fundimental starting point then there is no point even beinging to talk about it.it's only easy IF you use a goblin shroud, even then the hive section is more difficult because of the traps that stop the rogue sneak working.
Do you blame the SoE team who made an honest mistake or people who deliberately tried to exploit that mistake.
I know who I think should be to blame, but if we disagree on that fundimental starting point then there is no point even beinging to talk about it.
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Third, why is it naive to think SOE would suddenly introduce something everyone will go nuts for? Look at Slipgear's gem quest. Stats are great and effort to do the quest is minimal. Am I naive for believing SOE actually put this in the game this way on purpose??
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1, after about 6 hours everyone knew there was going to be rollbacks and that there was something wrong, so why not hold off on buying for 24 hours while it was sorted out?
I already answered this. SOE said that only those who were directly related to the npcs would be rolled back. Why would someone who had nothing to do with the npcs in PoK feel the need to stop buying/selling/trading/accepting donations for buffs? Hell, a large portion of the people who I know who were rolled back didn't even know what happened in PoK. They were in trader mode at the time and someone purchased something from them who was indirectly in contact with one of these items.
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2, Why blame SoE for the problem when it is CLEARLY the fault of greedy people trying to Exploit what was essentially a bug (a man made error really but essentially a bug)
I will tell you why I blame SOE:
1. The servers should have been taken down right when they found the problem and all rollbacks done then.
2. SOE waited over a day and a half before starting the rollbacks allowing enough time for the problem to spread serverwide.
The players are at fault yes but it was SOE who let the problem grow as much as it did before fixing it. This is why I hold SOE at fault. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it the job of SOE to fix problems like this before it effects innocent people?
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It boils down to this:
Do you blame the SoE team who made an honest mistake or people who deliberately tried to exploit that mistake.
I know who I think should be to blame, but if we disagree on that fundimental starting point then there is no point even beinging to talk about it.
Do you blame the SoE team who made an honest mistake or people who deliberately tried to exploit that mistake.
I know who I think should be to blame, but if we disagree on that fundimental starting point then there is no point even beinging to talk about it.
I would like to talk about it. I think it is a valid discusion and heres my view.
Did SOE make a mistake? Yes
Did players knowingly take advantage of it? Yes
I feel both parties are at fault here buy,
Would the problem have been anywhere near as bad as it was if SOE had taken the servers down for an hour or two as soon as they realized what happened and sorted it out then? No, and herein lies the problem. I hold SOE at fault for the way they decided to handle it.
Sorry. Kind of 2 posts in 1 here. I didn't feel like posting again right after myself.
Edited, Sat Jan 21 13:46:56 2006 by Raolan
tarv - the issue is, sony never made it clear at all that anyone who didnt touch the tradeskill stuff would be rolled back. actually, the motd indicated pretty much the opposite.
this isn't the fault of the people who exploited. sony has completely bungled the entire thing.
a friend on FV was in the process of changing mains at the time the patch hit. he didn't touch tradeskill stuff, there was nothing to indicate his gear was in any sort of danger.
he transferred the remaining gear from his mule (that had been his monks, up until recently,) to his warrior. he then deleted his mule. (remember - fv is 1 char an account - he had to do this to create a character on that account to level up.)
his warrior ended up getting rolled back to before he had his monks gear on him. his mule couldn't get rolled back, as it was deleted.
he lost: 4.2 million platinum, four pieces of anguish loot, two items from DoN raid dragons, and three pieces of tacvi loot.
all of this (except for one piece of anguish loot) he had -BEFORE- this tradeskill bullcrap ever happened, yet sony is refusing to reimburse any of it. he didn't touch a tradeskill merchant. his guilt? being handed some plat (to repay a debt...) from someone who bought an item in the bazaar (not a tradeskill item...) from someone who used the merchants.
that's not someones fault who bought twenty drake scales or whatever. that's sony's fault.
this isn't the fault of the people who exploited. sony has completely bungled the entire thing.
a friend on FV was in the process of changing mains at the time the patch hit. he didn't touch tradeskill stuff, there was nothing to indicate his gear was in any sort of danger.
he transferred the remaining gear from his mule (that had been his monks, up until recently,) to his warrior. he then deleted his mule. (remember - fv is 1 char an account - he had to do this to create a character on that account to level up.)
his warrior ended up getting rolled back to before he had his monks gear on him. his mule couldn't get rolled back, as it was deleted.
he lost: 4.2 million platinum, four pieces of anguish loot, two items from DoN raid dragons, and three pieces of tacvi loot.
all of this (except for one piece of anguish loot) he had -BEFORE- this tradeskill bullcrap ever happened, yet sony is refusing to reimburse any of it. he didn't touch a tradeskill merchant. his guilt? being handed some plat (to repay a debt...) from someone who bought an item in the bazaar (not a tradeskill item...) from someone who used the merchants.
that's not someones fault who bought twenty drake scales or whatever. that's sony's fault.
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he lost: 4.2 million platinum, four pieces of anguish loot, two items from DoN raid dragons, and three pieces of tacvi loot.
all of this (except for one piece of anguish loot) he had -BEFORE- this tradeskill bullcrap ever happened, yet sony is refusing to reimburse any of it. he didn't touch a tradeskill merchant. his guilt? being handed some plat (to repay a debt...) from someone who bought an item in the bazaar (not a tradeskill item...) from someone who used the merchants.
all of this (except for one piece of anguish loot) he had -BEFORE- this tradeskill bullcrap ever happened, yet sony is refusing to reimburse any of it. he didn't touch a tradeskill merchant. his guilt? being handed some plat (to repay a debt...) from someone who bought an item in the bazaar (not a tradeskill item...) from someone who used the merchants.
Thanks for clearing that up.
See i told you it was the Exploiters fault.
*edit because it didn't really bring across the irony i was aiming for in the first place.
I am trying to be ironic, but look at it from SoE's position, how are THEY supposed to resolve that? given that every single person who is petitioning them will have just as likely a sob story, how do you know who to believe?
Again if people had left the Vendors alone as they should have done everything would have been peachy, but certain greedy/stupid people couldn't
it's Eve syndrome, and SoE ccannot be blamed for THAT.
Edited, Sat Jan 21 16:32:51 2006 by tarv
4 posts
this message is for Tarv,your an idiot,a jackass,and a loser. You need to get over the fact that ur a fkn ******.
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So what you're saying is that it was the person how sold the item to the guy who gave your friend the plats fault.
Thanks for clearing that up.
See i told you it was the Exploiters fault.
Thanks for clearing that up.
See i told you it was the Exploiters fault.
... tarv, are you just pretending to be a moron?
I hope you get banned for getting trained with the justification "well, you were near someone doing something against the rules!"
No i was trying to be ironic, it's a form of humour that seems to be a little hard to grasp when people are being overly emotional about a compter game.
4 posts
Get a life Tarv and while your at it take your tongue out of sony's ***.
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I am trying to be ironic, but look at it from SoE's position, how are THEY supposed to resolve that? given that every single person who is petitioning them will have just as likely a sob story, how do you know who to believe?
it's not hard.
do trade logs have them logged as receiving tradeskill stuff from the merchants or using the merchants?
nope?
TAH-DAH, they're innocent.
sony, if they were that concerned about a few piddling little TS items leaking out of the merchants, should have IMMEDIATELY brought down the server, and selectively rolled back those directly involved.
waiting days and then rolling back everyone who was 'contaminated,' even a hundred degrees away and not involved in TS stuff, with absolutely no warning to those who hadnt used the merchants was about the stupidest thing they could have possibly done.
I have actually found this mess somewhat fascinating and read through a lot of the various forums. Here's what I have noticed:
SOE's first mistake was failing IT 101. What do you always do before making a major change to your servers? You do a back everything up. Then if something goes wrong, you have a point to return to before the change. This was not done. The last backup that SOE performed was on 1/11, which is the date the rolled back players were returned to the state of.
Had people been rolled back to the point that they were at when they last logged before the patch there would be a ton less complaining.
The failure to perform a backup made the second mistake much larger. The beta tradeskill merchants popped up in the regular servers. Obviously, people bought stuff from them. All the servers should have been taken down immediately, the NPCs removed, and rolled back to the pre patch state at this time. SOE's failure to perform a backup before the patch made this an option they couldn't use. Rolling every toon back to their 1/11 state would have created a mass quit 10x the size of the one occuring.
On to mistake three: It is well known that the GMs were aware of this mistake within 10 minutes of it going live, yet it took over an hour to remove the NPCs from the game. This caused the problem to become much more widespread, and harder to correct effectively. Once again, I have no idea why the servers weren't taken down. This would have at least stopped the spreading.
The fourth mistake was that the players signed on were not clearly told what was going to be done to correct this adequately. Some people expected rollbacks to the pre patch state and just logged to a different toon. Some expected problems and logged altogether rather than risk problems. A lot of players that had no direct interaction with the NPCs assumed that since they hadn't done anything, it was safe to play.
The fifth mistake was choosing, nearly 36 hours live after the initial incident, to roll players back to 1/11 using an insanely wide and obviously improperly calculated fashion. Some players were rolled back multiple times. These are generally the players that are now completely stripped.
The sixth is related to the fifth. There are still quite a large amount of the items picked up from the beta merchants still in the game after the rollbacks. Interesting, will this mean more rollbacks?
I'm going to wrap the CS disasters into one big mistake as number 7. "Dems da breaks", has been the general response of the cue card reading, outsourced CS staff.
Currently we are on mistake 8. They decided to try to placate the players with a little cookie called double xp weekend. The problem here is that they undercooked it, tried to serve it anyway, and are now trying to fix that.
I think there will be a few more things to add to this list before all is said and done.
I personally don't think the rollbacks are anywhere near finished. As long as there are items floating around that were grabbed from thos merchants, SOE will try to track them. When they do, they will likely use the same absurd net that was used in the last wave.
This ranks up as one of the more outrageous IT/CS disasters I have seen in gaming.
SOE's first mistake was failing IT 101. What do you always do before making a major change to your servers? You do a back everything up. Then if something goes wrong, you have a point to return to before the change. This was not done. The last backup that SOE performed was on 1/11, which is the date the rolled back players were returned to the state of.
Had people been rolled back to the point that they were at when they last logged before the patch there would be a ton less complaining.
The failure to perform a backup made the second mistake much larger. The beta tradeskill merchants popped up in the regular servers. Obviously, people bought stuff from them. All the servers should have been taken down immediately, the NPCs removed, and rolled back to the pre patch state at this time. SOE's failure to perform a backup before the patch made this an option they couldn't use. Rolling every toon back to their 1/11 state would have created a mass quit 10x the size of the one occuring.
On to mistake three: It is well known that the GMs were aware of this mistake within 10 minutes of it going live, yet it took over an hour to remove the NPCs from the game. This caused the problem to become much more widespread, and harder to correct effectively. Once again, I have no idea why the servers weren't taken down. This would have at least stopped the spreading.
The fourth mistake was that the players signed on were not clearly told what was going to be done to correct this adequately. Some people expected rollbacks to the pre patch state and just logged to a different toon. Some expected problems and logged altogether rather than risk problems. A lot of players that had no direct interaction with the NPCs assumed that since they hadn't done anything, it was safe to play.
The fifth mistake was choosing, nearly 36 hours live after the initial incident, to roll players back to 1/11 using an insanely wide and obviously improperly calculated fashion. Some players were rolled back multiple times. These are generally the players that are now completely stripped.
The sixth is related to the fifth. There are still quite a large amount of the items picked up from the beta merchants still in the game after the rollbacks. Interesting, will this mean more rollbacks?
I'm going to wrap the CS disasters into one big mistake as number 7. "Dems da breaks", has been the general response of the cue card reading, outsourced CS staff.
Currently we are on mistake 8. They decided to try to placate the players with a little cookie called double xp weekend. The problem here is that they undercooked it, tried to serve it anyway, and are now trying to fix that.
I think there will be a few more things to add to this list before all is said and done.
I personally don't think the rollbacks are anywhere near finished. As long as there are items floating around that were grabbed from thos merchants, SOE will try to track them. When they do, they will likely use the same absurd net that was used in the last wave.
This ranks up as one of the more outrageous IT/CS disasters I have seen in gaming.
Very well put kitca.
I am sorry tarv but you can not truely believe that every single person who purchased something from the beta npcs knew that what they were doing was wrong. Most have been around long enough to know that something wasn't right but we have alot of true newbs on Povar who very well could have made an honest mistake.
Even if you take out every single person who knowingly took advantage of it, all it would have taken was that 1 true newb buying a stat food or a gem from one of these npcs to start this whole disaster.
As I said before the people who exploited this should definatly be nuked but the way SOE handled the situation is what caused the problem.
I am sorry tarv but you can not truely believe that every single person who purchased something from the beta npcs knew that what they were doing was wrong. Most have been around long enough to know that something wasn't right but we have alot of true newbs on Povar who very well could have made an honest mistake.
Even if you take out every single person who knowingly took advantage of it, all it would have taken was that 1 true newb buying a stat food or a gem from one of these npcs to start this whole disaster.
As I said before the people who exploited this should definatly be nuked but the way SOE handled the situation is what caused the problem.
Nice post Kitca. I am a little worried about logging on and playing. Perhaps SOE will decide that taking advantage of the double experience is an exploit, and we should have known better.
The idea is responsibility and SOE isn't taking any. They blamed the players basically for a situation no player could have been able to create. They spread the blame to every player that those original players came in contact with.
I was incredibly lucky, lost very little, even though I did absolutely nothing wrong. If I was one of the people Groogle told about I would be very upset with this game. Yes, it's just a game, a game that I spend hours working to pay for, and many more hours playing. If it wasn't important I wouldn't be paying for it. That doesn't mean it's on the same level as family or friends or that one is obsessed. There are many things more important in my life, and still I am not happy when someone screws me over, game or not.
The idea is responsibility and SOE isn't taking any. They blamed the players basically for a situation no player could have been able to create. They spread the blame to every player that those original players came in contact with.
I was incredibly lucky, lost very little, even though I did absolutely nothing wrong. If I was one of the people Groogle told about I would be very upset with this game. Yes, it's just a game, a game that I spend hours working to pay for, and many more hours playing. If it wasn't important I wouldn't be paying for it. That doesn't mean it's on the same level as family or friends or that one is obsessed. There are many things more important in my life, and still I am not happy when someone screws me over, game or not.
LOL, exactly. You are the biggest dumbass I have ever known, Targ
Actually, Tarv writes quite clearly and is using quite a bit of skill in arguing only his strong points qhile ignoring and shunting off his weak/ hopeless points.
If I was SOE I would be having people who work for me doing whatever damage control possible on whatever boards possible. This is giving SOE a GREAT deal more common sense then they have exhibited the last few weeks, but its certainly possible they have SOME sense.
Not saying that anyone in particular works for SOE, but it would explain why some are apologists following the SOE line while ignoring all of the points people are bringing up that SOE itself is ignoring.
Understand this: People are angry with SOE for they way they handled the problem, not so much the problem itself. People were rolled back who had no contact with the beta merchants...people were rolled back who had no contact with any of the goods the beta merchants sold.
People were rolled back who touched ANYTHING that a tainted player had on them...pp, items that were obviosly looted from mobs.
People were rolled back who only SOLD items that they had looted themselves from mobs, because the buyer had tainted pp.
Explain to me how anyone should have thought that selling some runes you yourself had looted for pp made you deserving of a rollback?
The rollbacks could have worked if done with some degree of skill....my favorite quote was an ooc from POK:
"This was like security at a mall shooting evryone in a store to make sure they stopped a shop lifter"
Indiscriminate overkill, blatant extreme overkill....thats what is fueling this so called whining.
The smug tone of the apology letter certainly didnt help matters either of course. Apologize for the initial error and make claims that are easily seen to be false...how is that going to win back any credibility for SOE?
Sliggoth, long time lover of EQ... longtime believer in giving SOE a the benefit of the doubt........current convert to the belief that SOE is now intentionally at fault.
If I was SOE I would be having people who work for me doing whatever damage control possible on whatever boards possible. This is giving SOE a GREAT deal more common sense then they have exhibited the last few weeks, but its certainly possible they have SOME sense.
Not saying that anyone in particular works for SOE, but it would explain why some are apologists following the SOE line while ignoring all of the points people are bringing up that SOE itself is ignoring.
Understand this: People are angry with SOE for they way they handled the problem, not so much the problem itself. People were rolled back who had no contact with the beta merchants...people were rolled back who had no contact with any of the goods the beta merchants sold.
People were rolled back who touched ANYTHING that a tainted player had on them...pp, items that were obviosly looted from mobs.
People were rolled back who only SOLD items that they had looted themselves from mobs, because the buyer had tainted pp.
Explain to me how anyone should have thought that selling some runes you yourself had looted for pp made you deserving of a rollback?
The rollbacks could have worked if done with some degree of skill....my favorite quote was an ooc from POK:
"This was like security at a mall shooting evryone in a store to make sure they stopped a shop lifter"
Indiscriminate overkill, blatant extreme overkill....thats what is fueling this so called whining.
The smug tone of the apology letter certainly didnt help matters either of course. Apologize for the initial error and make claims that are easily seen to be false...how is that going to win back any credibility for SOE?
Sliggoth, long time lover of EQ... longtime believer in giving SOE a the benefit of the doubt........current convert to the belief that SOE is now intentionally at fault.
MentalFrog wrote:
I 100% agree with Tarv. And the rest of you stop your whining, the rollbacks were finished last night, get over it. If you lost something petition, but damn suck it up already. If you're going to leave then damn leave already and stop whining and trying to drag everyone else down with you.
Maybe SOE didn't handle it the very best way, but nether did all you cheaters. So ***** all you want what's done is done. I'm here to play not listen to people ***** in chat about how they lost this and they lost that and how they did nothing wrong. Save it for the petition letters because ******** to other players is going to get all your gear, aa, and xp back.
Maybe SOE didn't handle it the very best way, but nether did all you cheaters. So ***** all you want what's done is done. I'm here to play not listen to people ***** in chat about how they lost this and they lost that and how they did nothing wrong. Save it for the petition letters because ******** to other players is going to get all your gear, aa, and xp back.
Anyone who would suck up to Sony like this after such a ROYAL ***** up is intetionally bliding themsleves to something they don't wanna see. This is an absolute disgrace.
Quote:
Anyone who would suck up to Sony like this after such a ROYAL ***** up is intetionally bliding themsleves to something they don't wanna see. This is an absolute disgrace.
SoE made an honest mistake and while not handling it very well are trying to make up for it, what are the cheats giving back to the community?
Answer: The square root of f*ck all.
tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:
2, Why blame SoE for the problem when it is CLEARLY the fault of greedy people trying to Exploit what was essentially a bug (a man made error really but essentially a bug)
With all due respect, if you can't blame *SOE* for this problem, you're a moron. Who put the vendors in PoK? Who designed this ham-fisted response to it? Who has the most disgraceful CS I have ever seen a company have that's not in chapter 11? SOE, that's who. This is such a HUGE screwup. Exploiters are always going to be out there, like theives and criminals are.
If a Brinks security guy left his bag of cash on the sidewalk for 6 hours and walked away and someone took it, would Brinks be screaming "Well if it wasn't for all you dishonest people out there, nobody would have taken the money!" No, the Brinks guard who left the money there would get fired because you KNOW if you give enough people the chance someone's gonna take advnatage of it.... take off the horse blidners. It's part of SOEs as designer/maintainter of an MMORPG to help prevent the exploitations that you KNOW people are gonna try. Did putting a vendor selling high level drop items in PoK do anything to help out with that? Apparently not.
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