Thanks for your response. I did find on the swg forum a pretty good recipe. Looks like piket dna works quite well with somethings P/P/?/?/P. Some have used (?)Lesser Plains Bol, Bagerset, and Gurrcat. Only maxing out the psyc, getting mind, agression, and prowess aleast 1%, with physique to 20%Kinetic. They aren't as uber as some, or as weak as the ones that can be tamed and not made. I did want decent and got it. Thanks again.