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Entering a school Brawl TourneyFollow

#1 May 07 2008 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
It's six bucks to enter so I thought why the hell not. It also goes towards a good cause, which is fighting world hunger <insert non-witty brawl-hunger pun>

For the couple of people I fought in the tourney here what improvements can I make to my playing?

For everyone else do you have any tips for marth
#2 May 07 2008 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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It's been some time since I've played you, but if you want I can hop online and try to give some pointers.

Some general tips for Marth:
1. Learn his range; Marth's greatest asset is spacing. This means using the length of his sword to attack from just outside counter attacking range. For example when using his fair (forward aerial) against someone try only hit with the tip and land just outside grab/jab range. Doing this means if they happen to shield your attack it (shield grabbing being a big counter to aerials) they can't instantly counter attack you, they have to move, giving you time to react. It prevents you from being pushed for mistakes. Also the tip of the sword does the most damage and knock back.

2. Become comfortable with the c-stick, most importantly be comfortable using it for aerials. By using c-stick to perform aerials instead of analog + A you are free to use the analog stick to control your jump a bit more. This makes it much easier to control your spacing, and you can do moves like retreating fairs with ease.

3. Keep stale moves in mind. Stales moves is a game feature where repeatedly using the same move reduces both its damage and knock back (the knock back part is new to brawl). This means if you spam fsmash to rack up damage then it isn't going to kill as well when you want it to. This doesn't mean you shouldn't spam moves like fsmash and fair, but that you should be aware of their reduced knock back. A specific example: I generally abuse fair to rack up damage, meaning it is high on my stale moves list, so when I finally get an opponent off the edge I will flip myself around and use my bair (back aerial) to edge guard them instead of swiping at them with fair, by doing this I will hit him farther back and thee is less chance he will survive.

4. Practice your edge game. Marth is quite good at edge guarding, his fair and bair both cover a wide area so he can easily interrupt recovering opponents.

5. Know how to use his b moves, they got a lot better in Brawl. Dancing blade is fast and covers good horizontal distance, the neutral combo is nice for knockback and speed, and the down combo is good for damage. Shield breaker is very effective against shields and nice to throw in there to mix it up soemtimes. Up b has been improved a lot. Up b now has better knock back and makes you invincible for the first 5 of 6 frames of the attack. One new use is that you can Up b out of your shield against an opponent (who is close enough). The move comes out too fast for them to dodge, and you have the initial invincibility. The only downside is that it is easy to punish if you miss them or they aren't knocked far away, only use on enemies with higher percent damage. Counter has about the same usefulness, sometimes I like to use it against an opponent who is hanging off the edge when he uses his edge attack. Probably shouldn't be using b moves as often as aerials, but overall they have been improved since melee.

6. Don't use his dash attack. In certain situations it is ok, but overall it's a very bad attack and easy to punish. Using a well spaced fair is a better way to approach an enemy.
#3 May 07 2008 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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One more thing. If Marth is your best character then you should probably go ahead and use him for this tournament, but his lack of a ranged attack hurts him. Plan on facing opponents who are spam happy with projectiles. Don't become annoyed or frustrated by the constant spamming, just avoid as you close the distance, don't give them plenty of time to take pot shots at you.
#4 May 07 2008 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
Additional stuff: I am pretty sure for this tourney I will be in the top tier of players. Most people in my school laugh at the idea of playing on a Wii and the rest do it for fun. I tried speaking geeky SS speak to a couple of my friends who play the game a lot and consider themselves pretty good and they were baffled.

Most people entering the tourney are doing so to play GH3 which has a bigger following in my school

Also I use the c-stick for aerials because it is a pain in the *** not to
#5 May 07 2008 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Another thing to note that I forgot, Marth's fair autocancels when he lands. This means it has zero lag time if you land it in any part of the animation. So you can immediately follow it up with any standing attack. I usually follow it up with a forward smash, but you can do a dtilt or ftilt if you need something faster.
#6 May 08 2008 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
Smiley: lol Me and my best friend play SSBB hardcore. Well, at least, like the most hardcore in our area, and we thought of starting.

ETA the rest of my sentence, because it most certainly was not supposed to end at "Starting"

We were thinking of starting a Brawl club, because it'd be fun.

Edited, May 8th 2008 9:50pm by Codyy
#7 May 08 2008 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, with Marth, make sure you master the art of short hop -> double fair -> instant attack the moment you hit the ground. It should be your bread and butter as far as approaching someone goes. Of course, you should mix it up, mindgames and all that... but still, there's little better in the game.

Get a friend to play Pit and do nothing but spam arrows. It will seem annoying at first - okay, it will be annoying at first, but once you master dodging through and reaching the character you will be very, very thankful you put the time in.
#8 May 08 2008 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
I am having trouble with the short hopping. Because I am a spaz I tend to slam on the analog stick when I want to jump and even when I don't it seems I rarely get a short hop
#9 May 08 2008 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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You use analog to jump? Personally I turn tap jump off. There's nothing wrong with analog jumping that I know of, but you may find it easier to short hop with x/y. However you may not have enough time to get used to x/y jump before the tournament.

Short hopping has nothing to do with how gently you push the analog stick, but how quickly you release it. This is why it can be done on digital inputs like x/y. If you have stopped pressing jump within a certain number of frames (I believe the lowest is 8 for Brawl) then the character will perform a short hop instead of a full jump.

If you want some intense short hop training you can pop in melee and try out fox. He has the shortest short hop window at 4 frames.

Edited, May 8th 2008 9:44pm by Allegory
#10 May 09 2008 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
The tourney is the 26th so I should have enough time to get used to it, but I remember trying to use it for melee and having trouble moving my thumb from its standard position on A to X/Y

Is there a certain way I should hold the controller to make it easier?
#11 May 09 2008 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
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On my right hand the tip of my thumb is always on the x button, and I press a with the bulk of the thumb. My thumb is always on both buttons (aside form cstick) so I never have problems moving it. I also think your reaction time is better when you don't have to lift and reposition your thumb.
#12 May 09 2008 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
Something that was forgotten...

Get good at dodging projectiles and such. Most people dont dodge and the either expect their attack to hit/miss/shield. So dodging a projectile in the air throws people off a bit because you can still move around while doing it.

Best practice for this is fight pit or rob and only have them use projectiles.

#13 May 09 2008 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
If you want I can help you practice avoiding pikaspam this weekend. PM me and we can set some times up.
#14 May 10 2008 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm a freak, I play with the wiimote / nunchuck set-up. I keep the pointer finger of my right hand on the nunchuck's C button, and just tap it for short hopping. I dunno, I just find it a lot easier that way than with any other method, maybe because you can "curl" your finger instead of laying it flat.
#15 May 11 2008 at 4:44 AM Rating: Decent
Warlord Alobont wrote:
Something that was forgotten...

Get good at dodging projectiles and such. Most people dont dodge and the either expect their attack to hit/miss/shield. So dodging a projectile in the air throws people off a bit because you can still move around while doing it.

Best practice for this is fight pit or rob and only have them use projectiles.



Also keep in mind that Marth can counter almost -anything-. Some of the "longer" attacks, like R.O.B.'s laser beam or Falco's blaster may hit you with the tail end (you'll deflect about half of it before you stop being invincible, at which time you'll get hit with the end of it).

Some things you can counter:

Effectively any projectile.
Hammers and Spazhammers. (Time this right, since the timer counts down on people who are knocked down, and a well-timed counter sure as hell will knock down a hammer-user).

Learn to abuse the ground dodge. Shield and then just tap down gently. Also, abuse your rolls. Nothing is more frustrating than being unable to hit you because you're either dodging or shielded.

Facing:

Dancing Blade's first attack will always face you in whichever direction you use it. In Melee, I used to use the first level of it just to face, and then charge up a b slash. Since it's changed (and I don't really use Marth anymore in Brawl, I prefer Ike), I don't really know how viable it is anymore to do so, but using it to face yourself in a particular direction is always helpful.
#16 May 15 2008 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Paradox wrote:
Dancing Blade's first attack will always face you in whichever direction you use it.

Just to note, any b move may be used to turn around.
#17 May 18 2008 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Personally I turn tap jump off.


I used to do that until I realized you couldn't Up Smash A or Up Special out of a shield without it being there.

Quote:
Also keep in mind that Marth can counter almost -anything-.


What do you do when you have a bomb at your feet, a 'rang at your head and an arrow being shot at you?
#18 May 19 2008 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
Pensive wrote:
Quote:
Personally I turn tap jump off.


I used to do that until I realized you couldn't Up Smash A or Up Special out of a shield without it being there.

Quote:
Also keep in mind that Marth can counter almost -anything-.


What do you do when you have a bomb at your feet, a 'rang at your head and an arrow being shot at you?
Ground dodge and shield?
#19 May 19 2008 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess you could. You might get grabbed or spin attacked afterwards though.

Just saying, as a link player, it's not tough to rip out an absolutely relentless stream of projectiles.
#20 May 22 2008 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
I did pretty well though I feel a bit pissed. I beat my 1st round opponent who used Olimar and the 2nd round they changed the rules to 4 man free-for-all

It was

Marth- me 3rd
Ike- 4th
Fox- 1st
Metaknight- 2nd

The winner went on to the finals and it ironically was Wolf vs Fox. Wolf won

The prize was $30 gift certificate to gamestop and a shirt 2nd place was a shirt and $15 gift certificate. It was fun though and I had a great time. I had more kills than anyone except Ike and I lost because I played waaaay too aggressively and only stopped going on the attack when Ike was eliminated because I had 1 life and the other 2 had 2 lives. I got killed by foxes ^smash that I failed to counter.

Edited, May 22nd 2008 9:22pm by Planks
#21 May 22 2008 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow was that tournament poorly run. Sorry they pulled a bait and swap on you.

Winning a stock free for all is about avoiding fighting as much as possible. There's zero reward for taking any risk.
#22 May 22 2008 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
It was a double tourney with SSBB 1st and GH3 second and they weren't suspecting so many people signing up for Brawl so they had to cut it down to make time. Smiley: frown
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