In the 29 and 39 brackets, yes, hunters were a slight problem for me, but since I hit 48 and got my next level of eviscerate and respecced to CB, they usually don't even get me under 50%. What I am seeing now is a prediliction towards mages that just stack +spell damage gear. I actually had a 42 mage HIT me for a 942 fireball. I was running WSG last night and we came across a guild that had 3 mages. One was frost spec, one fire spec, one arcane spec, and they ALL stuck together. I run with my 2 or 3 RL friends(depending who is on at the time)a 49 lock, 49 ret pally, and 43 priest. I will always go for the frost mage first, b/c their tactic goes something like this: frost mage either a)frost novas or frost bolts, runs away so my blind is out of range, so I vanish. Arcane mage runs up and starts spamming AoE, pulls me outta stealth, the frost mage is spamming Frostbolt, so I can barely walk, while the fire mage is spamming fireballs for 900+. Needless to say, that doesnt last very long.
The fire or arcane mage, 1 on 1, really isn't a difficult fight. But that damn frost mage has my number 9 times out of 10. Can anyone give some helpful suggestions?
Edit:spelling
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 11:03am by Salwrathis
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Forget hunters...what about magesFollow
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CC. Sap one, gouge one, just lower the number you have to deal with for the time being. Try to down them really fast so the others don't have a chance to react. And what are YOUR teamates doing during this? And what are the chances you're going to face these 3 again?
Reading your post its more then you always fought alone 3 mages or all 3 mages just only fired at you. You will never win if 3 mages aiming at you.
Again a single mage, i barley have problems. Like all other cloth wearing classes, i mostly stunlock them till the die.
But back to your post if you running with RL friends, set up a tactic and a kill-order and a CC-order. For example let your Paladin stun one, you sap one, the pries can fear and so on and on. Think about the abilites your group offers and its not that hard to bring a mage down if you focus on a single target.
Good luck.
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 5:50am by Principe
Again a single mage, i barley have problems. Like all other cloth wearing classes, i mostly stunlock them till the die.
But back to your post if you running with RL friends, set up a tactic and a kill-order and a CC-order. For example let your Paladin stun one, you sap one, the pries can fear and so on and on. Think about the abilites your group offers and its not that hard to bring a mage down if you focus on a single target.
Good luck.
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 5:50am by Principe
the only time mages give me problems is because i get lazy with them there easy to beat so whne a good one comes along they usualy beat me the first time but like the above poster said just CC and stunlock also if u sneak up on a mage and hit them they tend to go into a panick for the first couple seconds so try to get them to enter this panick state it realy does give u an advantage
@ Marthmadness - Have you ever even fought a mage before? Ok, say I sap one. There are 2 left. When I sap one(I have imp sap so I restealth) the others spam AoE novas, so there goes my stealth. Sapping one and gouging one really doesn't work since I'm 27-0-13 first of all(only 4 seconds), and secondly, they have this little ability called blink. Blinding doesnt work on the frost mage since they can use their little ability(don't know what it's called) to turn into an ice block, and come right back out and it negates blind(ihmo, should be nerfed, how the hell does putting ice around you make you able to see again?). As far as my teammates go, usually the mages take me out first, so they sheep the other 2 or 3 I'm running with. Kinda hard to take them down quick when they have that ice armor and 2k+ HP(ive looked at their armory profile). Stunlocking a frostmage is just about impossible, so that's not a viable option(blink,ice block, ice nova, all have cooldowns less than 30 seconds...keep in mind, our vanish, blind, sprint is on a 3.5 minute cooldown at a minumum w/ 2/2 elusiveness, mine is 5 min).
@Principle and Areeuh- No offense, but if you stunlock a mage, they are horrible...read above info.
The odds of me seeing them again are actually pretty high, since this isn't the first time I've ran into them and they are in a twink guild. Keep in mind, they aren't noobs, they've got about 21k HK's a piece. Sorry if I came off like an ***, but this is starting to get a bit frustrating. :P
Can I get a post with some well thought-out info, maybe Kturner, Meridus or Nooble could throw me a bone here?
@Principle and Areeuh- No offense, but if you stunlock a mage, they are horrible...read above info.
The odds of me seeing them again are actually pretty high, since this isn't the first time I've ran into them and they are in a twink guild. Keep in mind, they aren't noobs, they've got about 21k HK's a piece. Sorry if I came off like an ***, but this is starting to get a bit frustrating. :P
Can I get a post with some well thought-out info, maybe Kturner, Meridus or Nooble could throw me a bone here?
Salwrathis wrote:
In the 29 and 39 brackets, yes, hunters were a slight problem for me, but since I hit 48 and got my next level of eviscerate and respecced to CB, they usually don't even get me under 50%. What I am seeing now is a prediliction towards mages that just stack +spell damage gear. I actually had a 42 mage HIT me for a 942 fireball. I was running WSG last night and we came across a guild that had 3 mages. One was frost spec, one fire spec, one arcane spec, and they ALL stuck together. I run with my 2 or 3 RL friends(depending who is on at the time)a 49 lock, 49 ret pally, and 43 priest. I will always go for the frost mage first, b/c their tactic goes something like this: frost mage either a)frost novas or frost bolts, runs away so my blind is out of range, so I vanish. Arcane mage runs up and starts spamming AoE, pulls me outta stealth, the frost mage is spamming Frostbolt, so I can barely walk, while the fire mage is spamming fireballs for 900+. Needless to say, that doesnt last very long.
The fire or arcane mage, 1 on 1, really isn't a difficult fight. But that damn frost mage has my number 9 times out of 10. Can anyone give some helpful suggestions?
Edit:spelling
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 11:03am by Salwrathis
The fire or arcane mage, 1 on 1, really isn't a difficult fight. But that damn frost mage has my number 9 times out of 10. Can anyone give some helpful suggestions?
Edit:spelling
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 11:03am by Salwrathis
Imo, frost mages are a waste of time to attack first. They theoretically have 2xIceBlocks that just eat up time while everyone else kills you. Also getting stuck with stupid ice armor+the talent that actually freezes you in place. They are the anti-melee. Just not a good scenario to open up into.
Take out the big damage dealer first, the fire mage. rogue CC on that many mages is kinda lame so you can basically forget about that other than blinding. (dont think they can blink out of blind) Ambush fire mage, blind arcane mage, ignore frost mage or at least have the lock DoT him up and sic the stupid felhunter on him.
If you are able to take down the one mage pretty quick, which you should be able to do, then with the help of the rest of your group you should be able to take out the others.
If you are the only one getting snared, ask for BoF from the pally. Not much else to it.
I dunno, good luck. Mages can pack a lot of frontend damage and 3 of them all coordinate would suck.
So while we're semi on the topic.. have we found a set method to actually beating a Frost Mage?
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem just stealthing right by one and not looking back.. I'm just curious. As of now it's Frost Mage 8,000,000,000/Me 0. Give or take the occasional AFK one :D
Edit: It's too early for proper grammar on the first go around.
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 12:00pm by Kaain
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem just stealthing right by one and not looking back.. I'm just curious. As of now it's Frost Mage 8,000,000,000/Me 0. Give or take the occasional AFK one :D
Edit: It's too early for proper grammar on the first go around.
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 12:00pm by Kaain
Frost mages are really setup to counter melee. They are kings of snaring and snaring is a rogues enemy.
With CloS you can counter some of this. But even its not totally reliable since they can just iceblock... and start over. If they know you are there any stealth attacks are in vain since they can just AE you out of it.
Bascially, if they get the jump i clos>vanish and run away. :P
If they dont know anyone is around i can mess them up pretty good. the number one ability rogues have is the element of surprise. combined with huge upfront burst damage it can make clothies crap their pants and fumble their ****.
With CloS you can counter some of this. But even its not totally reliable since they can just iceblock... and start over. If they know you are there any stealth attacks are in vain since they can just AE you out of it.
Bascially, if they get the jump i clos>vanish and run away. :P
If they dont know anyone is around i can mess them up pretty good. the number one ability rogues have is the element of surprise. combined with huge upfront burst damage it can make clothies crap their pants and fumble their ****.
Thanks for the help KTurner, I really appreciate it. I would rate up, but for some reason the little tabs are coming up today.
The bad thing is, if I don't kill him in 2 shots, he frostbolts or novas and runs for the damn rejuv hut. I try and get my priest friend to dispel his frost armor if we can time it right, and if I have the zerker, I can take any cloth or leather-wearer out in 2 hits. I hit my records yesterday @ 49: 1523 ambush and 982 BS.
The bad thing is, if I don't kill him in 2 shots, he frostbolts or novas and runs for the damn rejuv hut. I try and get my priest friend to dispel his frost armor if we can time it right, and if I have the zerker, I can take any cloth or leather-wearer out in 2 hits. I hit my records yesterday @ 49: 1523 ambush and 982 BS.
Free Action poton saved me lots of time in WSG the last little while. They are cheap to make and just as cheap to buy. Most ppl seem to only make them for the points in alchemy. I get a stack for 5s on my server.
Haven't checked that yet, but it's doubtful it's that low on Hakkar. The cheapest stack of Fadeleaf I ever saw on there was 17 or 18g, seen it as high as 22g. But, seeing as Blizz is going to beef up the amount of Blinding Powder in junkboxes, I'm not too worried about that anymore.
I have to say you will never win that battle by yourself. My advise is the have warlock cast fear & fight as team. But in the scene you have describe that a no win it sound like they mages work together pretty well! I agree frost mage can be hard to beat special if they know your coming for them and put up that ice barrier, Ice block not that bad when mage put themselves in those they can't heal or attack so basic waiting for so outside help, I use that time plan my next attack, I like go slealth & cs & kp to death.
Salwrathis wrote:
Haven't checked that yet, but it's doubtful it's that low on Hakkar. The cheapest stack of Fadeleaf I ever saw on there was 17 or 18g, seen it as high as 22g. But, seeing as Blizz is going to beef up the amount of Blinding Powder in junkboxes, I'm not too worried about that anymore.
If you're in need of blinding powder send my main an in game mail or a tell and I'll hook you up with some. Additionally I can make free action potions and such if you can get mats (not sure what they are off the top of my head).
In either case, to answer the origional question: frost mages are a *****. They have always been a *****, and they will always be ******** Even with CloS, Vanish, Blind, and Imp Sprint - they are still hard to beat without the fourth element (luck). Try to get crip on them ASAP. If/when they iceblock - use that time to bandage and then restealth (as it should take you OOC in 5 seconds). At higher levels, opening with the new silencing garrote and then using BS works fairly well. Additionally, CSing or Ambushing into a quick gouge also works well (generally makes them blink into gouge if you can get the timing down - lots of luck here too). At 70, things like CloS and Deadly Throw definitely do help.
Oh... did I mention that all rogues are getting imp sap next patch? Now you can sap one of those 3 mages :)
Edited, Apr 13th 2007 6:25pm by LordMeridus
Hmm... 3 mages at once? I haven't tried it to be honest... but my method is usually... Crippling poison.
Believe it or not, even if they do manage to blink away you can catch upto them just as fast as soon as the frost bind move wears.
What i've noticed about mages is that, i build tolerance against mages, so If two frost mages are bombarding me with frost bind (I dunno the name) they last less each time it's used.
i can understand the AoE ruining your stealth acts but only if they are 3 lvls + above you. umm lvl 58 mages without detect lesser invis cant see me. Maybe because I have the NE trait and 5/5 MoD.
Here's what I do...
MH: Dagger/Hanzo (I dont remember the name of my dagger, you can search me on Armory, Sueno of Burning Blade)
Crippling/Instant
Stealth up, Shadowstep and Ambush... chances are that crippling struck off, and they are walking reallly slow. Ghostly Strike, and Sinister Strike then Evis, maybe in 5 seconds they are gone. It is the element of surprise that kills the mage. They can blink but if they have time to blink then they waste time and not get Frostbind through. If they frostbind then they stay longer around me and get damaged more so blinking would help very little after frostbind. Every second spent not dmging me while i'm binded is a second they kill themselves. Usually they wont think about attacking, rather getting away from me so they like try walking away and a frost bolt to slow me down.... with a sprint i still catch up considering they going 70% slow.
My crit is at 18.50% with Devilsaur set on, but at 57 I'mma do Stormshroud for about 21% crit chance. That plus my other spec is about 90% ambush crit chance if they stack.
but the whole point is to slow them as best as possible, you can go Crippling/mind numbing... but i dunno how that would work.
For the blinding powder problem you dont have to buy fadeleaf, just pick pocket ZF or any other instance with mass humanoids, much of the lock boxes contain Blindingpowder x5 or so. and they have alot of poison ingreds, which saves you a ton of money if you use it all.
***Rather than wasting your time sapping or blinding, since you searched them up on armory, kill the one with the Least HP the fastest. you CAN use blind to stop them from casting a spell that would otherwise disable you somehow.***
(Sorry for the wall-0-text)
Believe it or not, even if they do manage to blink away you can catch upto them just as fast as soon as the frost bind move wears.
What i've noticed about mages is that, i build tolerance against mages, so If two frost mages are bombarding me with frost bind (I dunno the name) they last less each time it's used.
i can understand the AoE ruining your stealth acts but only if they are 3 lvls + above you. umm lvl 58 mages without detect lesser invis cant see me. Maybe because I have the NE trait and 5/5 MoD.
Here's what I do...
MH: Dagger/Hanzo (I dont remember the name of my dagger, you can search me on Armory, Sueno of Burning Blade)
Crippling/Instant
Stealth up, Shadowstep and Ambush... chances are that crippling struck off, and they are walking reallly slow. Ghostly Strike, and Sinister Strike then Evis, maybe in 5 seconds they are gone. It is the element of surprise that kills the mage. They can blink but if they have time to blink then they waste time and not get Frostbind through. If they frostbind then they stay longer around me and get damaged more so blinking would help very little after frostbind. Every second spent not dmging me while i'm binded is a second they kill themselves. Usually they wont think about attacking, rather getting away from me so they like try walking away and a frost bolt to slow me down.... with a sprint i still catch up considering they going 70% slow.
My crit is at 18.50% with Devilsaur set on, but at 57 I'mma do Stormshroud for about 21% crit chance. That plus my other spec is about 90% ambush crit chance if they stack.
but the whole point is to slow them as best as possible, you can go Crippling/mind numbing... but i dunno how that would work.
For the blinding powder problem you dont have to buy fadeleaf, just pick pocket ZF or any other instance with mass humanoids, much of the lock boxes contain Blindingpowder x5 or so. and they have alot of poison ingreds, which saves you a ton of money if you use it all.
***Rather than wasting your time sapping or blinding, since you searched them up on armory, kill the one with the Least HP the fastest. you CAN use blind to stop them from casting a spell that would otherwise disable you somehow.***
(Sorry for the wall-0-text)
Best tip I can give you: get out of the 40-49 bracket. Nobody could touch me when i was there. It's mage's domain IMHO. Especially if you were a frostie, like i was :D
Sorry but after rethinking it i still dont know any answer that makes more sense.
Stealth da mage - CS - Backstab - KS - Backstab - SS - Evi
Imo, if you cant stunlock-kill a mage you need to rethink your gear or enchants. I doubt that there is a tactic needed for a cloth wearer. Well, if you get dedected an all 3 mages are fireing at you, theres again no tactic.
Heh, we have so many problems and needed tactics against Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins ... dont make the few easy fights we have more complicated then they are ! ;)
Good luck anyway!
Edited, Apr 14th 2007 9:02am by Principe
Stealth da mage - CS - Backstab - KS - Backstab - SS - Evi
Imo, if you cant stunlock-kill a mage you need to rethink your gear or enchants. I doubt that there is a tactic needed for a cloth wearer. Well, if you get dedected an all 3 mages are fireing at you, theres again no tactic.
Heh, we have so many problems and needed tactics against Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins ... dont make the few easy fights we have more complicated then they are ! ;)
Good luck anyway!
Edited, Apr 14th 2007 9:02am by Principe
Let me break it down Barney-style for you.
Stealth da mage? lol...ok, I stealth da mage, then cheap shot. He is good enough that he blinks out of cheap shot, and is full frost spec, so he frostbolts which in turn slows me. If I was lucky enough to get a Crip to proc, then he is moving at 50%, and I'm moving at 60%. Too bad there is a distance gap so either a) he keeps kiting me around, unable to get within blind range(nevermind all he has to do to get out of that is do put up ice block), OR I burn a Vanish. If I vanish, he knows I'm slowed and the general area of where I am, so he runs back up and frost novas, pulling me out of stealth and no way to break the snare. If you can get 3 stuns on a mage without him blinking, they are terrible
At your remark about my gear or enchants, please go look up my armory profile(Salwrathis on Hakkar). You let me know something besides my headpiece that I am lacking in gear or any enchant minus +12agi to boots that I am missing. No tactic needed for a cloth-wearer huh? So I guess you just walk up to locks and just auto-attack them to death.
With my AP, crit chance and SF, I eat through plate. There is only 1 warrior in the last 4 weeks that I have yet to take down 1 on 1. Pallys are a joke, as are hunters and shammies(diff story getting caught out of stealth). Right, a frost mage an easy fight, rofl. I suggest you go find a frost mage that knows how to play his class correctly, then get back to me when they wipe the floor w/ you.
Principe wrote:
Sorry but after rethinking it i still dont know any answer that makes more sense.
Stealth da mage - CS - Backstab - KS - Backstab - SS - Evi
Stealth da mage - CS - Backstab - KS - Backstab - SS - Evi
Stealth da mage? lol...ok, I stealth da mage, then cheap shot. He is good enough that he blinks out of cheap shot, and is full frost spec, so he frostbolts which in turn slows me. If I was lucky enough to get a Crip to proc, then he is moving at 50%, and I'm moving at 60%. Too bad there is a distance gap so either a) he keeps kiting me around, unable to get within blind range(nevermind all he has to do to get out of that is do put up ice block), OR I burn a Vanish. If I vanish, he knows I'm slowed and the general area of where I am, so he runs back up and frost novas, pulling me out of stealth and no way to break the snare. If you can get 3 stuns on a mage without him blinking, they are terrible
Principe wrote:
Imo, if you cant stunlock-kill a mage you need to rethink your gear or enchants. I doubt that there is a tactic needed for a cloth wearer. Well, if you get dedected an all 3 mages are fireing at you, theres again no tactic.
At your remark about my gear or enchants, please go look up my armory profile(Salwrathis on Hakkar). You let me know something besides my headpiece that I am lacking in gear or any enchant minus +12agi to boots that I am missing. No tactic needed for a cloth-wearer huh? So I guess you just walk up to locks and just auto-attack them to death.
Principe wrote:
Heh, we have so many problems and needed tactics against Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins ... dont make the few easy fights we have more complicated then they are ! ;)
Good luck anyway!
Good luck anyway!
With my AP, crit chance and SF, I eat through plate. There is only 1 warrior in the last 4 weeks that I have yet to take down 1 on 1. Pallys are a joke, as are hunters and shammies(diff story getting caught out of stealth). Right, a frost mage an easy fight, rofl. I suggest you go find a frost mage that knows how to play his class correctly, then get back to me when they wipe the floor w/ you.
Even a good arcane - fire mage can kill a rogue. Just blink from the cheap-shot and sheep. If you don't have time PoM + Sheep.
Next start with a pyro / fireball to get that nice DoT on him so he can't vanish then a lvl 1 frostbolt. If you think Mages are easy you're fighting moron mages.
Next start with a pyro / fireball to get that nice DoT on him so he can't vanish then a lvl 1 frostbolt. If you think Mages are easy you're fighting moron mages.
Quote:
Stealth da mage? lol...ok,
This was a typo kinda, lol. Don´t ask me why.
Quote:
He is good enough that he blinks out of cheap shot, and is full frost spec, so he frostbolts which in turn slows me.
It may sound wired, but most mages i fight dont blink out of cheap shot. Most of them just capitulate. But anyway, if they do it, there´s still Sprint to catch up. So if you know the "full frost" one, just grab the fire mage. Sure he can do the same, but will have a longer casting time on Frostbolt and less dmg, which gimps his dmg if he does that.
Quote:
With my AP, crit chance and SF, I eat through plate. There is only 1 warrior in the last 4 weeks that I have yet to take down 1 on 1. Pallys are a joke, as are hunters and shammies
Kewl, i think i never killed an equal leveld warriror in a 1vs1 situation. Also pallys are kinda undoable, cause you basically have to kill them twice to bring them down. So here´s the deal, you kill my wars and my pallys and i head over and kill that freaking mage :)
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