So here's what puzzling me... what do you go for?
Without initiative and imp ambush, ambush will not crit more often then not and only give 1 CP... making it pretty sad.
Garrotte still work, but again it'll only be 1 combo point and it lack the burst damage of a good old ambush.
Cheap Shot seems like the best bet, as it more or less guarantee you a Mutilate and with any luck 5 combo point before the stun wears off.
See, the problem is the majority of my pvp occurs in the Arena, where it's usually better to have a 2k+ opener which result in a dead target (due to focus fire from your teamates) then a 4 second stun - less damage, less burst, more chance of a lucky heal getting in before the target dies.
I'm insanely curious about this build and I really want to try it out (especially with the upcoming sap changes!), and I know tons of people swear by it for pvp... but this question is annoying me...
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 8:18pm by Tyrandor
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It really depends on the situation for me. In instances, if it's not immune to stun, I use Cheap Shot to get my Slice and Dice going properly. If it is, and it's going to live long enough to see the full effect, I use Garrote, otherwise it's Ambush.
In PvP, I always open with Garrote on mages, since it tends to put them in panic mode. On pretty much anything else, I use Cheap Shot. I can do a LOT of damage in the 9-10 seconds they're stunned. Not enough to kill them unless I get extremely lucky, but it's generally enough to cripple them (unless they can heal, damned Paladins).
In Arenas, I guess it would depend on what classes were on the other team. In 2v2, Sapping one and then stunlocking the other into oblivion (easy with 2v1) is brutally effective. In 3v3, it's probably a better idea to sap their biggest CCer, then destroy the healer. Hard to focus fire on something when you're being chain feared, and then the healer will likely come out of sap and just heal what you had nearly killed anyway.
Hard to really say which is best when they all suck.
In PvP, I always open with Garrote on mages, since it tends to put them in panic mode. On pretty much anything else, I use Cheap Shot. I can do a LOT of damage in the 9-10 seconds they're stunned. Not enough to kill them unless I get extremely lucky, but it's generally enough to cripple them (unless they can heal, damned Paladins).
In Arenas, I guess it would depend on what classes were on the other team. In 2v2, Sapping one and then stunlocking the other into oblivion (easy with 2v1) is brutally effective. In 3v3, it's probably a better idea to sap their biggest CCer, then destroy the healer. Hard to focus fire on something when you're being chain feared, and then the healer will likely come out of sap and just heal what you had nearly killed anyway.
Hard to really say which is best when they all suck.
if u could link a talent tree that would be helpful, as far as arenas go i am only lvl 54 atm and am 41/0/4 spec. This gives me mutilate and cold blood as well as an amazing backstab, in pvp i am racking up 5 combo points in 3 hits usually, those being CS, (Activate Cold Blood) Mutilate, sinister strike, then kidney shot and they dead b4 they wake up. Since the main arena event is 5v5 at lvl 70 i can only assume this is what u r going into. I would recomend Assasin spec because if u can do the 4-1 split, which means 4 go for healer, while u as the rogue nuke someone else your team will win a lot. Staying with subt. spec means u have an opener which is just as good as assasin spec, but then after the opener u suck.
For pve, I switch between garrote, CS, or just mut depending on the pull. For general pvp, on mages it's garrote>Shiv + mut if their slow. On everyone else, I open with CS. I only play on a 5v5 arena team so it's sap or CS when I can get the opener but many times, I won't be able to get it or I'll decide it's not worth waiting for it.
Build:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3053201050521025010513200350020050000000000000000000000000000000000
The focus of this build is pvp, hence why no imp BS and why I'm taking Deflection instead of imp S&D. I did hesitate on Endurance, but realistically speaking, arena fights are done before the cooldown (even improved) for sprint and evasion come back up.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3053201050521025010513200350020050000000000000000000000000000000000
The focus of this build is pvp, hence why no imp BS and why I'm taking Deflection instead of imp S&D. I did hesitate on Endurance, but realistically speaking, arena fights are done before the cooldown (even improved) for sprint and evasion come back up.
I would highly suggest you consider switching to assassination/subtlety instead of assassination/combat for a mutilate pvp build (combat is more pve imo).
Cheap shot is the best opener for mutilate, hands down. This is why I love mutilate so much, the order of chaos each move presents. You open with cheap shot, mutilate (85% chance with my build to have 5 CPs now), KS, Mutilate and Eviscerate. This is how most mutilate fights go.
However in all honesty mutilate is not the best suited at arena fighting if that's all your interested in. Shadowstep's extreme upfront damage makes it the clear cut winner in arena combat. It's weaker in basically every other aspect (terrible raid DPS and not as good BG/world pvp as mutilate) but in arena it is superb (mainly because of the kill quick mentality rogues have to have in the arena).
Either way, both are better than a combat build for arena fighting. You have to choose a build, and in the words of Olmec, "The choices are yours and yours alone!"
Cheap shot is the best opener for mutilate, hands down. This is why I love mutilate so much, the order of chaos each move presents. You open with cheap shot, mutilate (85% chance with my build to have 5 CPs now), KS, Mutilate and Eviscerate. This is how most mutilate fights go.
However in all honesty mutilate is not the best suited at arena fighting if that's all your interested in. Shadowstep's extreme upfront damage makes it the clear cut winner in arena combat. It's weaker in basically every other aspect (terrible raid DPS and not as good BG/world pvp as mutilate) but in arena it is superb (mainly because of the kill quick mentality rogues have to have in the arena).
Either way, both are better than a combat build for arena fighting. You have to choose a build, and in the words of Olmec, "The choices are yours and yours alone!"
Quote:
In PvP, I always open with Garrote on mages, since it tends to put them in panic mode. On pretty much anything else, I use Cheap Shot. I can do a LOT of damage in the 9-10 seconds they're stunned. Not enough to kill them unless I get extremely lucky, but it's generally enough to cripple them (unless they can heal, damned Paladins).
here's a neat trick-
-open with sap.
-wait for full energy and position yourself behind the enemy.
-hit garrote then immediately spam Mutilate (or BS).
even on PvE mobs this works as the initial hit for garrote does not break sap, only the first DoT tick will so you essebtially get a second free hit.
You should have 3 combo points by then and the silence effect + DoT.
See Shaolinz, I'd be inclined to agree with you... except that a lot of top pvp players - people who are most likely much better then you or me - claim combat mutilate is the way to go.
Maybe it's their skill thatr make it work... or maybe mere mortals can also make it work. Either way I want to try it.
:P
As a side note, I tried the build in karazhan yesterday, and I kicked *** on the damage meter... so at least it's viable for pve.
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 1:31pm by Tyrandor
Maybe it's their skill thatr make it work... or maybe mere mortals can also make it work. Either way I want to try it.
:P
As a side note, I tried the build in karazhan yesterday, and I kicked *** on the damage meter... so at least it's viable for pve.
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 1:31pm by Tyrandor
Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
As a side note, I tried the build in karazhan yesterday, and I kicked *** on the damage meter... so at least it's viable for pve.
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 1:31pm by Tyrandor
I wanted to talk to you about that, but you arent on MSN you noob.
Can't from work.
We don't all have super cushy jobs where we get to play with explosives and hi-tech toys :P.
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 1:34pm by Tyrandor
We don't all have super cushy jobs where we get to play with explosives and hi-tech toys :P.
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 1:34pm by Tyrandor
:\
edit: WOW Talk about a meaningfull milestone 7k post! " :/ " GO ME!
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 10:36am by KTurner
edit: WOW Talk about a meaningfull milestone 7k post! " :/ " GO ME!
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 10:36am by KTurner
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