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#102 Sep 04 2014 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I don't work in the industry, so I have no clue what the proper terminology is, but I'm talking about the ability to affect the volume of traffic that passes in various directions through an intersection at a time and the creation of openings in busy traffic to allow for entry onto a street from parking lots, alleyways, etc. Whatever that's called, that's what I'm talking about.

That's Traffic Demand Management mostly. Even signals don't affect the overall volume of traffic. That same number of cars are still going to go through that point during that approximate timeframe, but signals do control the rate at which those cars pass through that point. It's the whole Gas Valve analogy. A stop sign is an on off valve on a timer. A traffic signal is a variable valve that changes as needed. A roundabout is a constant hydrogen gas leak that occasionally explodes


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#103 Sep 04 2014 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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You know, when I made this thread I half-expected it would be on page 2 with 0 replies by the next day.
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#104 Sep 04 2014 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Cars are great for suburbia and other less congested areas, but Inside cities we really should be swapping to a non-car model. It's just a horribly inefficient way of intercity transit, and the sheer volume of space taken up by roads and parking lots is horrendous.
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#105 Sep 05 2014 at 3:28 AM Rating: Good
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Kuwoobie wrote:
You know, when I made this thread I half-expected it would be on page 2 with 0 replies by the next day.
The only way a thread gets to page 2 within a month here is if there's a lot of spam.
#106 Sep 05 2014 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
A roundabout is a constant hydrogen gas leak that occasionally explodes
Well, I'm sold. Roundabouts on every intersection. Smiley: laugh
#107 Sep 05 2014 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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You guys are really itching for this..... Roundabouts, more accurately traffic circles or rotaries are exceedingly efficient and a wonder to behold when everyone knows wtf they're doing.
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#108 Sep 05 2014 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
It's just a horribly inefficient way of intercity transit, and the sheer volume of space taken up by roads and parking lots is horrendous.
But it's freedom to be shackled to a automotive money drain.
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#109 Sep 05 2014 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
You guys are really itching for this..... [youtube=Yes - Roundabout]
It's hard to go wrong with Yes or the art of Roger Dean Smiley: inlove
#110 Sep 05 2014 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
It's just a horribly inefficient way of intercity transit, and the sheer volume of space taken up by roads and parking lots is horrendous.
But it's freedom to be shackled to a automotive money drain.


Cars are freedom; for certain parts of the country.
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#111 Sep 05 2014 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Cars are freedom; for certain parts of the country.
Nah, it's slavery for all parts. Just some parts of the country can rationalize it.
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#112 Sep 05 2014 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
It's just a horribly inefficient way of intercity transit, and the sheer volume of space taken up by roads and parking lots is horrendous.
But it's freedom to be shackled to a automotive money drain.


Nobody said that freedom was free.
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#113 Sep 05 2014 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
It's just a horribly inefficient way of intercity transit, and the sheer volume of space taken up by roads and parking lots is horrendous.
But it's freedom to be shackled to a automotive money drain.


Nobody said that freedom was free.


Yeah. Freedom costs money. Just like happiness, and oxygen.
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#114 Sep 05 2014 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh. And at the risk of rerailing this back to driving habits, there's another one that drives me nuts. I may have posted this before, but here it is anyway:

People who don't know how to handle (or notice) a two lane protected left (or, I suppose, right for those wrong lane parts of the world). I'm always super cautious if I'm lined up in the right of two left turn lanes to make sure the guy to my left realizes that my lane gets to turn too, and that he should not swing wide into the right most lane of the street we're turning onto. I've had people nearly run me off the road a few times in that situation. It's not like the signage is lacking, they just seem to automatically think "I'm turning left, so I get in the leftmost lane". Then, when it's time to go, it's "I need to be in the right lane ahead, so I'll swing wide into the rightmost lane".

That one's annoying, but at least I can see how someone can make the mistake. The one that really baffles me is the couple times now I've been in the left of two left lanes and had someone in the right left turn lane attempt to go into the leftmost lane on the cross street. Um... How can you *not* be aware that there's a turn lane next to you? I can see not realizing there's a second left turn lane to your right, but you can't line up in the right left turn lane without knowing there's two left turn lanes and deliberately choosing to put yourself in the right hand one. Yeah. I can't figure it out. But I've had it happen to be *twice*. Kinda funny when it happens too, since you're basically being funneled straight into the guy lined up in the left turn lane on the cross street and have to basically just stop and let the idiot continue on and then line yourself back to where you need to be. Last time it happened, the guy stopped at the cross traffic (who's basically looking straight at the front of my grill) had about the same baffled look on his face that I'm sure I did. It's just strange.


I suppose there's a similar annoyance I have with people who don't seem to plan ahead with regard to the lane they need to be in later. I've many times pulled up to a red light with two lanes traveling straight, needed to be in lane A because of a turn a mile or so up the road, only to find a lone car sitting in that lane, so I'll line up in lane B instead. My thinking is that if that driver is slow, I'll pass him and change into the lane I need to be in, and if he drives fast, I'll just pull in behind him. No biggie either way. It's shocking how often though, once one of us passes the other, and I'll change lanes to lane A, he'll then change lanes to lane B, then make a turn from that lane a bit down the lane. It's strange to me because the guy had a complete choice of lanes to get into, knew he needed to be in one of them at some point down the line, and decided to get into the wrong one instead. Maybe some people just don't think that far ahead, but for me, whenever I'm approaching a signal light where I need to stop, I'll think in terms of which lane I want to be in. Stops are where traffic will pile up, sometimes making lane changes after that point more difficult than when driving at speed down the road. Changing lanes ahead of time is trivial, and if one lane is just as clear as the other, and you're going to need to make that lane change anyway, why not do it now?

It's not like it's "wrong" or anything, but just causes needless potential lane changes for others. I tend to think in terms of not creating annoyances for other people though, but lots of drivers don't. I get into my own lane early rather than late, so I'm not one of those people veering across multiple lanes and cutting people off at the last minute. And yeah, this means that the numbnuts who zips past the line of cars and cuts in at the last second gains a few car lengths over the rest of us. Yay for him, I guess. Does he get a prize? Increased odds of becoming road pizza is about it.


Oh. I suppose as a corollary to the left turn lane thing is the confusion people tend to have with double protected right turns. Here in the land of sunshine, right turns on red are legal. Amazing how many people get confused about whether or not this means they can turn on a red from the left of two protected rights turn lanes (answer is "yes"). It's always an adventure pulling into that lane behind someone, wondering if they're going to just sit there and wait for the green. Not a big deal, but still a minor annoyance, I suppose.
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#115 Sep 05 2014 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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For once, I am in total agreement with every single thing gbaji wrote in a multi-paragraph post. I hope that this does not signify the apocalypse or something.


My peeve: Imagine an intersection of 4x4 lanes. Each approach has a right turn lane (extra lane) with a yield sign. One of these has, once you make the right turn, it's very own lane at least 150m long before you are required to merge into the regular west-bound two lanes. Guess how many friggin' people STOP at the yield sign and wait for all the lanes to clear before they go? Smiley: madSmiley: madSmiley: mad
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#116 Sep 06 2014 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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I just think gbaji doesn't know how to use a roundabout. If he did, he'd understand that in many scenarios, it's actually far more efficient than a set of lights which bottle necks things.
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#117 Sep 08 2014 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I skimmed the thread and all I got was people talking about stuff under the ground and one guy who apparently has a degree in driving who couldn't comprehend the things gbaji was saying.

I'm just going to assert that I'm a better(safer?) driver than most of you. It has to be true since I've created this magic method of driving called paying attention and making sure not to tunnel vision that allows me to somehow start breaking before the cars in front of me start breaking. Unless I'm going around a fun curve or making a turn at a specific location though. I have a feeling that anything that causes my rear tires to slide can't be called safe driving.

Uglysasquatch wrote:
I just think gbaji doesn't know how to use a roundabout. If he did, he'd understand that in many scenarios, it's actually far more efficient than a set of lights which bottle necks things.

My favorite scenario is when you have multiple people going around it that don't get off. YIELD TO ME, FOREVER!

Edited, Sep 8th 2014 1:27pm by Deadgye
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#118 Sep 08 2014 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
I'm just going to assert that I'm a better(safer?) driver than most of you.
But a worse speller.


It's "braking", FFS.


Edited, Sep 8th 2014 3:25pm by Bijou
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#119 Sep 08 2014 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
For once, I am in total agreement with every single thing gbaji wrote in a multi-paragraph post. I hope that this does not signify the apocalypse or something.


I'm pretty sure I saw dogs and cats sleeping together as well. Smiley: yikes

Quote:
My peeve: Imagine an intersection of 4x4 lanes. Each approach has a right turn lane (extra lane) with a yield sign. One of these has, once you make the right turn, it's very own lane at least 150m long before you are required to merge into the regular west-bound two lanes. Guess how many friggin' people STOP at the yield sign and wait for all the lanes to clear before they go? Smiley: madSmiley: madSmiley: mad


Well, technically, they're supposed to. The issue is that there shouldn't be a yield sign there in that situation (it serves no purpose). I'm assuming that at one point there wasn't a dedicated lane there, and they never took the sign down after they added it. Obviously, in this case, there is no need to yield (cause the lane you're turning into isn't a legal lane for any of the cross traffic to go into), but most drivers are going to yield anyway, just to be safe.

My counter peeve is when people *don't* wait for all lanes to be clear when turning onto a street. Even if the far right lane is clear to your right, doesn't mean that the car one lane over isn't intending to enter that lane once he crosses the intersection. There's a particular intersection near where I live that has this problem (a couple intersections along that particular road do, actually). Basically, right after the intersection an additional lane opens up that becomes the right turn only lane into a mall lot at the next light. So my right hand lane approaching the intersection is actually lined up one lane to the left after the intersection. Sometimes, people will decide that this means their right turn is clear and turn in front of me. It's not because I'm going to enter that lane after crossing the intersection, but they'll do it anyway assuming that I'm required to stay in the other lane.

I nearly got into an accident once because of this. I was driving down one of those annoying suicide parking lane roads that LA seems to love. What this means is that the right hand lane is *also* a parking lane (meaning cars can park in the lane). Which means you can't actually drive in it, since it's not wide enough for both parked cars and traffic (parking isn't allowed during high traffic times, which is why they do this). The problem is that this means that if I want to turn right at the next intersection, I can't actually get into the right hand lane because there are parked cars blocking it. I once had some idiot pull out of a gas station lot on the corner directly in front of me as I was attempting to get into the lane to make a right hand turn. I'm sure he just checked that "his lane" was clear and it never occurred to him that the guy one lane over might be about to go into the same lane he's pulling out into.

So basically, don't pull onto a street if there is any traffic on it that could impact you, even if they aren't in the far right lane when you make your decision. Yes, this is more time consuming, but it's a lot safer.
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#120 Sep 08 2014 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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That story reminds me of these signs all over Michigan's upper peninsula. Going to and from college at Michigan Tech was the first time I had ever seen them.

At first glance, they seem like a "No **** Sherlock" sign.

But in reality, they are a warning because when they appear there are temporary passing lanes in the opposing traffic, which means the opposing traffic has two lanes, one of which may appear clear. But it's not safe to pass because the opposing traffic may decide to unexpectedly make a legal lane change.

Kind of relates to the pulling out into traffic on a multi lane road. But I try not to change lanes at an intersection. Mostly because I don't want the person at the intersection to think my signalling means I'm going to make a turn and prompt them to pull out in front of me for real.

Edited, Sep 8th 2014 7:47pm by TirithRR
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#121 Sep 09 2014 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
I'm just going to assert that I'm a better(safer?) driver than most of you.
But a worse speller.


It's "braking", FFS.


Lies. The act of braking technically slowly breaks the brakes. And also sometimes rotors/tires.
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#122 Sep 09 2014 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:

Well, technically, they're supposed to.
Technically they're supposed to yield. As the sign says.
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#123 Sep 09 2014 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Well, technically, they're supposed to.
Technically they're supposed to yield. As the sign says.

I've seen intersections like the one in question. 150 meters is not far when traveling at any significant speeds. And when there are a few lanes of cars already stopped at the intersection you won't be able to clearly see the traffic until you reach the yield sign. The best you can usually hope for is a rolling stop. Blowing through it just because it's a yield with a short merging lane is bound to eventually wind up in an accident. Stopping momentarily to check for traffic that has the right away would be the correct thing to do at intersections like this were you cannot always clearly see the traffic until you are already at the yield sign. It's not the same as a freeway on ramp even though it may look the same as far as the road itself is concerned. The difference being the dozen other vehicles stopped and blocking your view of the intersection and traffic with the right of way not treating the lane as a merging lane like they would in a freeway situation.

Edit:
I realize I ran in the wrong direction with this, and was focusing on yielding even when there was no traffic because you couldn't see the traffic, when the topic was yielding to traffic on multiple lanes (which I already had covered in my previous post about the no passing signs).

Edited, Sep 9th 2014 5:35pm by TirithRR
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#124 Sep 09 2014 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
But in reality, they are a warning because when they appear there are temporary passing lanes in the opposing traffic, which means the opposing traffic has two lanes, one of which may appear clear. But it's not safe to pass because the opposing traffic may decide to unexpectedly make a legal lane change.

Kind of relates to the pulling out into traffic on a multi lane road. But I try not to change lanes at an intersection. Mostly because I don't want the person at the intersection to think my signalling means I'm going to make a turn and prompt them to pull out in front of me for real.


Yup. Exactly what I was talking about. In a multi-lane situation, a car driving down the road has the right of way to change into any lane traveling in the same direction he's going, yielding RoW only to another car traveling the same direction and already in said lane. Thus, any turn (or overtake) is considered unsafe if there is any car traveling in the cross or opposing direction which *might* enter the lane you're considering crossing/entering. All lanes must be clear of traffic, not just the one you're thinking about entering. It's amazing how many people don't get this though.
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#125 Sep 09 2014 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Stopping dead at the spot marked "A" is, at best, stupid. Speeds are low and 150m is plenty of space to merge. A slow roll to between "A" and "B" will allow for safer merging.
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#126 Sep 09 2014 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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My example.

6 lanes of oncoming traffic. Two turning right, one turning left, and three going straight through.
Three lanes of traffic on your side going straight or turning left through the intersection.
A branch off the right hand side with a yield sign so you can turn right at the red light.
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