Courtesy in MMOs: Dead, Or Just Hiding?

Sam "azerian" Maxted is showing his age with his most recent editorial about the diminishing courtesy in MMOs that once existed but is now seemingly all but gone.

You know the elderly think things were better when they were young; that ice cream was sweeter, summers were hotter and you were grateful for what you had? Given what I've been seeing in MMOs of late, I could be on my way to joining them. I've been shaking my head over the past few months at the way some people behave online. I don't know if it's just the servers I've been playing on, but increasing numbers of players seem to want something for nothing, and aren't afraid to step all over you in order to get it. I'd like to start by addressing something that most of us will have seen in MMOs, and which some may even have participated in when we were newbies. This topic, ladies and gentlemen, is begging.

Personally, I have no time for beggars. It's not difficult to earn money in most subscription-based MMOs, so beggars tend to get a mix of two reactions. The first would be "get lost and earn your money like everyone else", with the second being something like "if you'd gone out and levelled, you'd have earned twice that by now". Why people beg in MMOs really confuses me, when it seems such a pointless exercise. At best you waste some time and miss out on a load of EXP, while at worst you ruin your character's reputation and set yourself up for pranks. I have to admit that I've done the old trick of leaving cash in a trade window before going AFK, just to see how long the beggar would wait for me to hit "Trade". This may be a bit of a dick move in itself, but it's generally reserved for the more obnoxious beggars out there.

While people have been begging for money in MMOs since day one, the number of those asking for - or even demanding - "boosts" and power levelling seems to have rocketed in the last few years. It used to be that I could play during peak times without being asked for this, but these days I get someone begging for this kind of help a few times a week. Now, I'm not a heartless person, so I don't mind helping with something that's nearby and won't take too long. However, I don't see why I should spend an hour or more babysitting someone I don't know through a low level instance, so they don't have to worry about competing for loot. If I knew the person who was asking for help and I wasn't busy, then things would be different. However, I'm usually only asked by people wanting a free ride.

Something else that bothers me is the language people can use when they don't get their own way. For example, I was playing WoW recently and waiting for the instance server to behave so my group could enter Azjol-Nerub. A few of us were flagged for PvP (having come straight from a Battleground) and we were ambushed and killed by a group of Horde. Rather than wait to be de-flagged from PvP, one of my group kept respawning and attacking the Horde by himself. This prompted him to hurl abuse through the public chat channels about how we - and others nearby - should have helped him in his doomed crusade. Fortunately, he logged out in a huff and was replaced just in time for us to start the instance. It did, however, prompt some members of the group into saying it wasn't the first time they'd seen this sort of thing recently. I can understand a bit of swearing going on in front of the PC when your character's killed in an ambush, or making some comments in-game if the situation was unavoidable. On the other hand, targeted abuse is completely unnecessary. Why risk your account being suspended by swearing at people, especially when those people haven't done anything wrong? It's easier to be forgiving of new players - particularly if they're new to the genre - but max-level players doing it confuses the hell out of me.

Still on the subject of instances in WoW, it really bugs me when everyone in the group assumes they'll be teleported there. For the uninitiated, when two members of a group reach an instance's Meeting Stone, they can use it to summon everyone else. However, I've often seen group members refuse to head over to the Meeting Stone, even when they're closest ones to it. This usually means someone has to travel half way across the world to help with the summoning, when Mr Lazy could've made things ten times quicker. Before you say it, this isn't due to the offending group member(s) being afk - some people simply can't be bothered to travel to Meeting Stones themselves.

While the Meeting Stone thing gets on my nerves, it pales in comparison to group members who go AFK for half an hour - or even log out - because they need to eat dinner half way through a dungeon. I can say that I've never done this and, barring a stroke or an attack of near-terminal stupidity, never will. It has to take some kind of sociopath to join an instance group with no intention of actually finishing the dungeon, or making four other people wait while you eat. Wasting an entire group's time like this makes me angry - I'm starting to feel it just writing this. Is it that some people simply don't think before joining a group, or do they join on the off-chance that they'll finish before they need to leave? An apology or the character saying in advance that they didn't have long would go a long way towards smoothing things over. However, at least in my experience, this hardly ever happens. The offending character simply disappears with a message saying "AFK - dinner", then gets annoyed when the group either splits up or has kicked him by the time he comes back. If anyone here has done this (or knows someone who has), please let us know what caused this behaviour. There may be something I'm missing here, but on face value it seems like one of the most inconsiderate things someone can do in an MMO.

This brings me onto my final point, which can be summed up in three letters: plz. Maybe it's the writer in me, but I don't like the word "plz" at all. When people use it towards me, they may as well not bother: it simply doesn't sound like a "please". To me, it sounds like the person saying it knows a "please" is expected, but they can't be bothered to type it out and don't really mean it. I might be getting the wrong end of the stick here (at least in some cases), but that's how it comes across. Is it really so hard to add the extra three letters? It's not as if they're spread across the keyboard. And how did a "z" wind up replacing an "s", anyway?

So, with all this staring me in the face, can I say that courtesy in MMOs is dead? No, I don't think so. While everything I've listed here is annoying and seems to happen more than it used to, the majority of players don't behave this way. In reality it's only a small minority who do any of the above, with the exception of using "plz". What happened when I was waiting outside Azjol-Nerub actually gives me hope; one player may have been out of line, but others nearby reacted to him in the same way I did. In other words, while one person in the group had some serious anger management issues, the others - and everyone else nearby - were just fine. As long as the majority of gamers can't be accurately described by Penny Arcade's theory, we should be ok for a while yet.

SAM "azerian" Maxted
Editor
ZAM.com

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Hrm...
# Apr 28 2009 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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71 posts
While a relative newcomer to WoW--played Meridian 59, Everquest, LotRo prior--I have to say I'm impressed with the comportment of my fellow players on Ravencrest.

In regard to rudeness, it happens in all MMOs. Between 12 year olds who finally get a chance to mouth off and not get smacked in the mouth and adults who never got smacked in the mouth enough when they were 12, bad manners are just going to happen. The best we can do is set an example and hope for the best.

I will say, if you EVER want to experience some truly appalling game behavior, give Runescape a go. Dear lord in heaven every rude 12 year old on the planet must be on that game. And apparently, calling someone "noob"(variations thereof) is just the du jour insult. It's used with NO clue what it means or even how to properly apply it as an insult.

"hey man, i'm fighting this mob, there's plenty over there you can have"
"haha n00b!!!"

oooookay.

Anyway, I get it, but I think part of it is a total breakdown in society as a whole--and that's a really really long rant that makes me sound 98 not 38. ;-)

Great Article!

"too sensitive"
# Apr 11 2009 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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104 posts
Edrissa, I can understand your PoV, though I think you missed an important distinction. Nobody here is asking anyone to play 'their way.' they are merely saying that their way is their way, your way is your way and they'd like not to have your way (or whomever's) inflicted on them.

Language filters do exist - so does a clause in the ToU making foul language in a public channel unacceptable. And IRL, 'freedom of expression' does exist - and you can still get arrested for being hateful, malicious, vile, and threatening with that expression. To quote a saying that was common so many decades ago most here probably haven't heard it, "Your freedom ends where someone else's begins."

The folks in this thread aren't saying 'don't have fun your own way' - just 'don't ruin my fun by intruding into it.' Beg your fool head off - but don't /w me with it, because I am not interested. Want to recruit/invite for your guild, party, etc. - fine, do it with those who are interested but don't cancel out my mail/auction/bank by throwing up an uninvited trade window. Want to prove your lack of vocabulary and imagination by making every third word a swear word? Have at it - but not in a public channel, which violates ToU and impacts the environment of everyone around you, not just those who 'agree' with you.

You're right - these folks are sensitive - sensitive to the fact that *everyone pays their $15, and *everyone has the right to a decent game experience without having something that ruins it for them inflicted on them in every venue. Even the ones who don't agree with you - or me.

Societies have laws because in order for people to co-exist, there has to be an agreed-upon set of rules and a method of enforcing them. WoW has neither - and even for the rules that do exist, there are many (seemingly, from your post, like yourself) who consider these 'suggestions' to be ignored if they are inconvenient (referencing specifically the ToU vs. your stated feeling on language). Under such circumstances, societies fail.

Don't doubt it, Azeroth is a society and a culture, and in order to succeed for its members it requires the same things as any other culture. Don't waste time arguing with *me - grab a cultural anthropology book and see what I mean. Most of these folks are simply saying that what they see violates their RL cultures, and they don't find it acceptable or appropriate in their online culture any more than they would face to face. And somehow, I suspect that even you might feel differently about the entire thing if you had to look in the eye of a person at the other end of the convo - because as I stated earlier, the anonymity makes it easier to ignore the things that are required for human beings to get along.

JMO.


** edited to correct my endless typos

Edited, Apr 11th 2009 9:25pm by TheNixie
Node stealing? Not on my server
# Mar 30 2009 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
One of the many things about my server I enjoy is the lack of node stealers. Yes, I have seen and done cast bar races, but when someone is fighting next to a node, even the Horde don't ninja it. Though to confess, I inwardly scream when I see someone on an epic flyer dash ahead and grab all the nodes I need for my own epic flying. Gold is needed for endgame and what not, but endlessly grinding the ore(read gold) that people need for their own necessities is selfish.

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 5:39pm by Lichbourne
Annoying People
# Mar 30 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
Wow. You people are way too oversensitive about things.

The only pet peeve on your lists that bothers me is droppping group in the middle of an instance or going AFK during one.

You all rant about the foul language in chat, they do have a language filter that will censor that sort of thing for you.

As for the beggers, etc, just ignore em. I don't mean /ignore, I mean just ignore. By talking to them you are playing their game.

Lighten up a little people, just because we don't all enjoy your way of playing the game does not make it any less valid.

All of these people pay their 15$ a month to play the game. If they find enjoyment out of sitting in stormwind begging for hours for gold, let em. They have as much right to do that and we do to ignore them and go quest.

I used to let a lot of this bother me, until I realized I was being elitist. I wanted people to play the same way as me. To have the same manners, and have the same sort of dedication to the game. Some people enjoy being asses, and since they pay their money every month they have as much a right to do that as I do to run heroics.

As long as they aren't spamming or otherwise violating the ToS or EULA, who cares what they do? Ignore them and move on.

Edrissa - 80 Boomkin Twisting Nether
Hate to say it
# Mar 28 2009 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
but I think it is just you are noticing it more. I've played online for almost 12 years now, prior to the graphical front end for most mud's or moo's, and what I can say is the % of people subject to WEB RAGE, or that allow themselves to become completely deranged in the absence of actual human contact is not really any higher than it always has been. The greater the online population the higher the % of Llama's :(. Please don't let the few idiots out there ruin your experience or make you change the way you play. Archfeld of Cenarius, happy to help when I can....
I support this article
# Mar 27 2009 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
I've been playing MMOs since 1995, way back in the days when camping the GY in Tos at night just waiting for skellies to spawn. Now some of you know what I am talking about and the rest of you need an explanation. Either way, I'm sure Tamat never expect all the apologizes for using plz and thx - I wont because it's just a quicker way of being nice to those I really can't stand that haven't done anything wrong. I'm not going to tell any of the incredible stories I have of all the rude people I've met because it wouldn't make much of a difference. I've filled my ignore list countless times and had to edit some people out although there are a few that have earned a permanent place on it. I've never found an article until this one I absolutely agree with, and I firmly believe that Courtesy is Dead and that it never had a chance to go into Hiding. I know that some that read this post will have some angry words for me just please remember that this is not aimed at you. Now I leave you all with some words of wisdom. I know I cannot PVP, plz stay out of my instances.

Never rub a red LLAMA, Stewie's wife lent me the short bus, and Dunbar will always be my truest friend. If your friend ever tells you they have a key, grab some Diet Mt Dew and hang on for the ride. There will always be some light at ever Darkened Twilight.
I support this article
# Apr 28 2009 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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71 posts
Lexibel wrote:
I've been playing MMOs since 1995, way back in the days when camping the GY in Tos at night just waiting for skellies to spawn.


I want to say Meridian 59?
Manners
# Mar 27 2009 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
my husband and i are retired (ages 59 & 54). we started by playing EQ with the two youngest sons (now 24 & 25). we've been playing WoW since it came out. when people swear over general or trade, i will ask them to 'please' not swear. if i get some smart mouthed response, i point out that you actually have to take the time to type the foul language as opposed to it just falling out of your mouth. we both have level 80 hunters because we rarely group. he has an 80 pally & i have an 80 rogue and we both have several other characters. 'afk' or 'brb' is about it for my abbreviating. when i'm in good form i can type/keyboard over 90 words a minute. i will take time to run a lower level person through an instance, it's kinda fun. i turn off trade if i have to be in the cities. the above observations by Tamat and everyone else are very valid. when our sons were growing up (we had a cattle ranch) i pointedly told them that there is barnyard language and there is polite conversation. that in our home or out in public, polite conversation was expected. if i was out in the barnyard and heard cuss words, well, it was understandable. when i was growing up my Dad was hanging a picture in the living room for my Mom (a big painting), well he smacked his thumb with the hammer and my mother quickly said 'Bob, there are children in the house'. the next thing i heard was the biggest, longest sigh. anyway, i don't give gold to beggars (but will donate if my shoes were shined), i report gold sellers and spammers and will /ignore the foul mouthed. by the way, our sons played when we played because the computers were all in the same room.

Cynner - NE rogue - 80
Rokin - NE hunter - 80
pvp freaks et al
# Mar 27 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
The most aggravating thing for me are those pvpers out there who think that ever MUST pvp just because they like it. I will never set foot on one of those servers; having tried it when the first muds came out, and I have haven't done any since except to try for the mount for the kill the leaders thing. While alot of the ppl out there who like dueling respect the no thanks reply I tend to give when it comes to dueling, there are those who keep pushing it at least once more. Then there has been the few that have tried goading me into it, and got reported for their efforts. 1 of them actually tried it 8 times till I put him on ignore. I've commented in both say and general about if you like pvp that much, go to a pvp server; and leave the rest of us alone. I have done runs and ports for others, not expecting anything out of it other than a thank you of some recognized form; and usually got it. As for spelling, I look at it this way: so long as I can understand what they are saying to me, I don't worry too much about their spelling. I make typos just like alot of other folks out there, some times more than others depending on how fast I am trying to type; and there are some words out there that my fingers just can't seem to stand to spell properly no matter how hard I try.

As for trade chat, I am pretty much doing the same thing as Talarel mentioned above ( welcome to the game, btw ) I've been playing wow for almost 2 years now, and have been playing eq for almost a decade, and it seems to me that the griefers are universal no matter where you go. I've gotten to the point that when I am in trade chat; anyone I see doing that **** garbage I immediately put on ignore, the same with anyone trying to do graphics. I don't care how big your display is, you don't have the right to waste my screen space with your garbage when I need that space for the stuff I care about such as my guild/group/chat channels/and tells...

The 3rd thing for me are those who join my guild and expect full access to the guild bank. We state right out that promos and such are earned past the first one, and that is not going to change while I lead my guild. There have been too many who have tried to steal stuff from our bank to either sell or give to their friends when we put stuff in our gb for our guildies to use when they hit the lvl for that item.
pvp freaks et al
# Mar 27 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
I don't think there is anything wrong with PVP, there aren't any courtesy problems with PVP. Sure, maybe you get ganked and camped but is that discourteous? No. If you play on a PVP server then you should know what you are getting into. PVPers have every right to attack whoever they wish. I don't always enjoy seeing a horde player come up, but I get on with it. PVP can be very entertaining as well as frustrating, just yesterday an undead priest mind controlled me off the top of Wyrmrest. I was both annoyed and amused at how clever it was.
Giving gold
# Mar 27 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
45 posts
So far, I haven't run into much rudeness on my server (Velen), except for watching some trade chat drama and one episode of ninja-ing. I have been asked for gold by people who I have grouped with a few times and have on my friend's list. I have no problem with doing that - that's what friends are for. Some have helped me out with quests and such, so shooting a little gold their way is no big deal, especially since I seem to have more than the average character.
My Rudest Experience
# Mar 27 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Reading this post reminds me of the rudest experience I've ever had in this game. One time while leveling my Alchemy skill with my Druid in TB near the trainers, some guy threw a guild charter sign-up in my face (as I was unguilded at the time). Now, I don't mind signing someone's charter and helping them get their guild started with any unguilded characters if they ask me politely first or maybe are offering cash for signatures, but it really annoys me when someone just "throws" one in your face expecting you to sign it. So, I closed the window to go back to my Alchemy, and then the guy says something rude to me cause I didn't sign his charter. I think I made a brush off comment to him and he left.

I thought that was the end of that, but later he sends me tells talking all kinds of smack at me for no reason. Despite my better judgement, I got into an argument with him about it. Well, several derogatory comments aimed at me later (including one questioning my sexuality, I simply said to him "Welcome to ignore" then added him to the list. That was really the only truly downright rudest person I ever came across.

This does however bring up another pet peeve of mine...People who just throw invites (Guild, Group, Charters) in your face without so much as saying a word to you first. I have no problems grouping with people or joining a guild (Though with guilds, like most people I like to find out more about the guild and what their about before just jumping in), but I find it to be much more courteous if someone asks first before just throwing it in your face. I understand people might do this to save time by not having to type, but it would still be appreciated all the same.

And like others, I'm no fan of beggars either. I started MMOs with EQ, and back then making money was a major chore (but it could be done however...Rathe Mountains being my Druid's best friend...lol). But these days most MMOs make money making a lot easier. It might be hard at first, but once you get the hang of it and learn the economy it ain't hard at all (like which trash loot sells to vendors the best, what resources sell good on the AH, etc...). The ones who are the worst are of course the ones who demand money or goods from you, then have the audacity to actually get angry when you don't give em anything

The biggest problem with this game, unfortunately. is also it's biggest selling point...it's casual player friendliness. This is great for those of us who have more active lifestyles, but it also has the negative tendency to draw in a lot of "undesirables" (i.e. Childish and rude types). For example, one need look no further than the trade and general channels to see some truly ignorant behavior (spamming, racist-sexist-homophobic remarks, etc...). Unfortunately, the GMs can only do so much. It's the crutch we all have to bear :/
In agreement for the most part.
# Mar 27 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
16 posts
After reading this, I knew I just had to sign up and give my two cents worth as well. :)

To start off, gold beggars. I hate them. If you spend as much time begging for gold as you would have going out doing quests or farming or just killing creatures to get money or trash items to vendor to reach the amount of gold you're needing, you're not worth my time and I'll tell you right away: "No, go out and get gold like the rest of us do by questing." Most of the time they won't ask me again, but if you do, you're automatically /ignore. And gold sellers, instant reporting of spam. No if's and's or but's about it, period.

Instance beggars. I don't see them very often as far as those that just want ran through. The ones that do, I don't put them on /ignore, I just simply ignore it on my own. Majority of the time on the server I'm on, the ones that want ran through will offer GP to help compensate for the time we're taking out of our own game time to run them through...not to mention that with them looting comes even more money from getting your share of the loot. ;)

Buff beggars. To tell you the truth, I don't think I have seen that come up at all in the time I've been playing. Most of the time, just going through one of the major cities, I'll wind up with buffs I didn't even ask for...including the intellect buff. Very fitting for a warrior don't you think? lol Now if I ever played a toon that can give buffs to other toons without them being in my party, I probably will give it out freely like so many others have done before. If someone asks me nicely for a buff, I'd most likely give it then as well. If you outright demand the buff, I'll just say no.

Language. It's definitely harsher than what I hear sometimes in real life!! I mean, I'll use it once in a blue moon, normally just to get a point across to a harsh player. Otherwise, I don't use it unless it's between friends via Vent or through the mic chat function of WoW. If you wouldn't speak to your mother that way, why do it to people you don't even know?

Leaving in the middle of instances and the meeting stone. It doesn't happen often with the groups I go with, whether it be with my real life friends or with a PuG. Most of the time we're made known in advance that such and such person has only a certain amount of time and we'll take it from there on whether they stay or if we need to get another player to join up. In the case of going afk, we'll say what we're going afk for to gauge how long we'll be, mostly just for a minute or two b/c of needing a bio break. As far as the meeting stone goes, normally it's understood with every group I've been in that the closest players head to the stone and summon the rest of the party if we're not together already.

Chatspeak. I admit it, I'm guilty of it at times. But normally I'll only use it in the channels or in whispers. If I'm saying something in game or even yelling in game, I'll use normal speak. After all, I am on an RP server and even though it's really casual RP, I still want to make sure I'm adding to the experience of the game and speak to them like I would in real life rather than on a chat server. I don't go around in real life and say, "OMG! WTF r u saying? LMAO!" etc.

In conclusion, I do agree with most of what is said here. It all boils down to this. Remember the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Also be mindful of those you're playing with. We all don't come from the same background, so what may work from where you're at, may definitely not work online. Respect your WoW peers and they'll respect you in return. :)
woohoo
# Mar 27 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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2,346 posts
I noticed when I first started as a lowbie that if you were polite then people were usually generous to help you out. Not saying begging, but asking a simple question and not spamming it 40 times in general or yelling. But as you mature in level peoples expectations of you increase like 50 fold, and by the time you hit 80 people expect you to know every aspect of the game perfectly, no questions asked. I've only played WoW a grand total of 6 months, while that may seem like a long time, with everything that goes on in that game...it's not, and I learn a lot of new stuff everyday but still not near everything. A lot of times in PuG raids or instances, I won't even get a response when I ask a simple question, so it gets frustrating when your trying to learn but people seem too elitest to answer your newbie questions.
I wasn't expecting this...
# Mar 27 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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52 posts
I thought that this article might create more discussion than usual, but I wasn't expecting anything on this level.

Regarding the article, I have to admit that the first screenshot was 'staged' - I asked a friend to help me out with it so I could use it to demonstrate a point (and not have to pull the trick on someone uncessarily).

However, I swear the third screenshot was *not* staged. I was after some general instance screenshots to use in this article and it just so happened that someone wanted to go and get food. Oh... and it took longer than "4 mins".
Courtesy is dead and buried I think!
# Mar 27 2009 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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407 posts
Courtesy is dead and it frustrates the hell out of me. I agree with all of the OP words although plz bothers me much less than someone who doesn't even bother to attempt courtesy saying simply healz? heal? wut 2 heal UP? or similar. A few people also say "Holy?" or "are you holy spec?" to my priest the answer to that is NO. They assume that means I'm shadow spec I think as they always disappear after that so apparently Disc either doesn't exist or isn't a healing spec to these people. If someone asks me politely for something I will reply politely whatever the answer, if they ask like an idiot I either reply with a sarcastic phrase or I ignore completely. I like the "no is shorter than yes" answer and might have to start using that one...
Courtesy is dead and buried I think!
# Mar 27 2009 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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289 posts
My biggest irritation is when you go out of your way to help someone, or simply answer their question, and they don't even have the courtesy to simply say thank you. When someone used to ask a question, I'd use an add on, or even alt tab and look it up for them, But after countless times of "k" or no response at all, that is now a thing of the past. It only takes a few seconds to type "thank you".


I'll never forget once i ran this guy through BRD, and instead of a thank you, all he did was complain that he didn't get the drop he wanted, Hearthed and left, no thank you, no goodbye, no nothing. That's an honest to God true story.


There's an old saying that says "A little kindness goes along way". There's also another which i have adapted to as of late that says "Do not mistake my kindness for weakness", Meaning I'll still help random people if approached correctly, But with an absolute zero tolerance for rudeness and selfishness.


Preach On!
# Mar 27 2009 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
I read this post yesterday and kinda’ shrugged it off in mediocre agreement on the subject matter. That is until my experience last night. I logged in and was waiting for my RL friend to log in so we could go out and quest grind. While I was waiting on the top of the bank roof in Orgrimmar I get a trade window and a /t that says “Plz buy something I’m begging ya’. I need money” to which I kindly replied “No thanks, Sorry” and canceled the trade window. I immediately received a /t “wow U R a F#%KING D!*K” My mind went immediately back to this post. This was quite possibly the rudest thing I’ve ever encountered in the game.

Later that evening after questing at the same location I get a cold party invite followed by a /t “Port to Shatt?”. I was like what the hell? Followed by several other /t begging for a free port. I would like to say that I’m one of those Mages who nearly every time I see a request for a port I’ll try to help, However now after these two events I have adopted a new policy. If your initial request involves the word “Please” it is free if it does not it’s 5G.

I would also like to comment on my personal pet peeve regarding in game conversation. I have Dyslexia and my use of the English language is less than perfect, however my inability to spell is not a direct reflection of my intelligence. I constantly have people ridicule me and correct my grammar in game to the point of harassment. Not all of us were English Majors in college so BACK OFF! I would also like to take this time to apologize for using “PLZ” and “THX” in chat. I thought this was the “Hip” thing to do nowadays and didn’t realize it ate at so many people. I assure you every time I ever wrote “PLZ” and “THX” genuinely meant “Please” and “Thank You”. I vow never to use these abridged versions again!
Preach On!
# Mar 29 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
******
29,527 posts
SithLordXXX wrote:
I would like to say that I’m one of those Mages who nearly every time I see a request for a port I’ll try to help


I used to be one of those as well. From the time I got my first portal spell until a few weeks into 60, if I saw someone asking for a portal, I'd help em out. But one guy(I'm not going to mention his name, but be assured I still have it written down on my list) whispered me one day from Silithus demanding I come to him and portal him to IF. I wrote a "lol" back to him, which he responded to by calling my mother things I won't repeat here.

Now, I don't even respond to portal requests from people standing right next to me unless they phrase it in such a way that it makes me feel like a real human being with intelligence who will show gratitude that I would go out of my way to help them. Those people I'll even go to another major city to port em to wherever.

Ok, so maybe I do sometimes respond to "Port 2 Dalaran" whispers when I'm feeling ornery. I reply "100g" and get ready for an entertaining argument.
Preach On!
# Mar 28 2009 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
SithLordXXX wrote:
I would also like to comment on my personal pet peeve regarding in game conversation. I have Dyslexia and my use of the English language is less than perfect, however my inability to spell is not a direct reflection of my intelligence. I constantly have people ridicule me and correct my grammar in game to the point of harassment. Not all of us were English Majors in college so BACK OFF! I would also like to take this time to apologize for using “PLZ” and “THX” in chat. I thought this was the “Hip” thing to do nowadays and didn’t realize it ate at so many people. I assure you every time I ever wrote “PLZ” and “THX” genuinely meant “Please” and “Thank You”. I vow never to use these abridged versions again!


I think the gripe in this post was more directed to people who are just plain lazy and go on a tirade and insult rant when asked to put effort into spelling out thank you. I kid you not, I've done countless things for strangers out of kindness that say 'tnx', and at the time I was new to chatspeak and would ask 'Huh?' or 'Pardon?' and they'd turn psycho on me with these grammar **** accusations and such. Over the years I became a bit of a 'grammar ****' just to spite those types. ;p My best friend and favoritist person in the world is a dyslexic WoW player; Plain laziness and unwilling to put some effort into your typing is a COMPLETELY different story from Dyslexic, you can't really help it with dyslexia. WoW does not have a spell checker hehe.
Preach On!
# Mar 30 2009 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
Anonimoose wrote:
SithLordXXX wrote:
I would also like to comment on my personal pet peeve regarding in game conversation. I have Dyslexia and my use of the English language is less than perfect, however my inability to spell is not a direct reflection of my intelligence. I constantly have people ridicule me and correct my grammar in game to the point of harassment. Not all of us were English Majors in college so BACK OFF! I would also like to take this time to apologize for using “PLZ” and “THX” in chat. I thought this was the “Hip” thing to do nowadays and didn’t realize it ate at so many people. I assure you every time I ever wrote “PLZ” and “THX” genuinely meant “Please” and “Thank You”. I vow never to use these abridged versions again!


I think the gripe in this post was more directed to people who are just plain lazy and go on a tirade and insult rant when asked to put effort into spelling out thank you. I kid you not, I've done countless things for strangers out of kindness that say 'tnx', and at the time I was new to chatspeak and would ask 'Huh?' or 'Pardon?' and they'd turn psycho on me with these grammar **** accusations and such. Over the years I became a bit of a 'grammar ****' just to spite those types. ;p My best friend and favoritist person in the world is a dyslexic WoW player; Plain laziness and unwilling to put some effort into your typing is a COMPLETELY different story from Dyslexic, you can't really help it with dyslexia. WoW does not have a spell checker hehe.


Yeah, this.

I don't get worked up about it though. I just ignore anything and everything with those terms. You say 'plz' and guaranteed, whatever you were asking for (even if it was 'pee on me, I'm on fire!'), wouldn't get done by me. I don't believe in abbreviating expressions of gratitude ("thank you") or politeness ("please"). I'd much rather wait for a slow typer to type it out than encourage (what I perceive to be) laziness.

Courtesy in MMOs, as in real life, died well before the genre was even established (at least stateside). I'd say it was in extremely critical condition during the 80s and went downhill from there.
jackasses in game
# Mar 27 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
19 posts
Well, I started out back in the dark ages on Everquest, and was actually customer service in addition to a player, and I have played WOW since I beta'd it.

The problem is one of what one grows up with.

At first there was pen and paper D&D/AD&D/GURPS and the world was good, even though they lived in basements and the stench of their water avoidance could gag a maggot ...

Then there was Atari, all praise the proto console [well and oddessy, and video games of note] and life was [still] good.

Then there was the personal computer, Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, Arena and all the original games, and life got better [woohoo, I can play D&D and not scrounge up a smelly group, and can play when I want to]

Then consoles started developing their own cult, seperate from computer gamers and pen and paper gamers, and it was still good.

Then came usenet and we had text games, and all got interesting. Kids grew up, went to university and got a BBS hookup. The geeks were mostly self policing.

Then came the internet, and people figuring out how to put pretty pictures up, and make games <squee> and life was getting really good ...

Then kids began to talk mommy and daddy into getting them a computer to help them learn and grow ... and play first person shooters, and a console to play games on with their friends...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We now have a generation of nintendroids who look on games as if it is still a first person shooter, or a console game played by having your friend do a sleep over and play 1:1 ... then comes the console game where you can log in and play online with a team of a few friends. Much better than a sleepover ... but you are still in a world that is essentially an instance for you and your buddies. All the resources are there for you, all the rare mobs are there for you, all the drops are there for you ...

Well, now you get the brilliant idea to get mommie to get you a WoW account ... and you still treat it like your favorite console game, everything is there for you - resources, mobs, drops ... all anybody not in your little group of playmates is 'mobs'. No longer are we people, but just more computer generated stuff for them - to give them gold, to buff them, to take them by the hand and level them up ...

So peeps, we are nothing but mobs to the nintendroid universe. Short of figuring out how to mark all of them PVP and ganking every single one repeatedly until they give up, we are stuck with them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That being said, I will offer to take a group through a low instance, and frequently give away potions, or drops *as long as I am not asked* and look upon the guild bank as a great way to dispose of tradeskill mat drops and stuff that I dont want to bother to try and auction ... the guild I was in after starting my DK was stunned because I emptied my auction mule into the bank and essentially filled an entire tab with gear for 20-40ish people =) I love startup guilds full of newbies, they are so easy to please=)
Manners
# Mar 27 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
18 posts
This is not just an irritation issue - you play the game to have fun and be social - antisocial players detract from your experience. /ignore isn't the answer. I would like to see guilds and raiding groups post a '10 commandments of party participation' that cover all these points - the AFK for dinner being my personal "You've got to be kidding?!" hot button. Beyond this, I would like to see some sort of icon visible to everyone who invites you to a group that says "I've taken the pledge" to NOT behave like a 4-year old. This would give players some comfort (or warning in its absence) of what kind of player to expect in their group. I believe this is a necessity, and that Blizz needs to implement a similar feature in the very near future. The WoW community is mature and maturing - unfortunately, familiarity really does breed contempt. Those of us who want our kids (and grandkids) to play this game need to establish the same social expectations we have in real life we engage in family activities.

The other possibility is an "Exile Island" server - instead of banning players from the game, send them to a PvP server where everyone is KNOWN to be an ***. You have to play your way off - and commit to better behavior in the future. Kind of like being "Scared Straight" by visiting a prison. Because there is always someone even worse than you.

End of rant - have to meet my guildies. Great thread folks.
Manners
# Mar 29 2009 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
Penal Colony Server=One of the best ideas I've heard in a long time. Brings a smile to my face just thinking about all the d-bags confined to one server.
My two cents
# Mar 27 2009 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
I'll touch on several topics here from my own experiences, heh.

Whenever someone says 'plz', this is always my response. 'If you're going to say 'plz' because it's shorter than 'please', I'm going to say 'no' because it's shorter than 'yes'.' I usually end up being called all sorts of things, even by people who had nothing to do with the conversation and happened to be nearby, but those with the same viewpoint as me agree and even get a laugh out of it, so Pth to them. The only time I even have a problem with when people say pls or plz instead of please is when I'm on an RP server. If I'm on another server, I pay it no attention. However, if I'm in the middle of a good in depth RP and someone comes in breaking the flow and being an overall distraction with 'netspeak', griefer RP (hay guyz en1 wnt 2 cyber?! wtb cyber) (x stabs o n runz of laffing ur dead) then you're going to bet I'm giving them a piece of my mind before /ignore.

People like me -might- be a contributer to the rise of beggars and people expecting free rides. I'm a very generous person, often with ample free time on my hands. I don't like doing many things alone in WoW, because it's an MMO and let's face it, that's why we're here. So when all my buds are offline I run around offering lowbies free runs through low dungeons. It's something I enjoy, it's something that fills time. Being appreciated for it is always awesome and mass pwning all those npc's that laid waste to you 40-60 odd levels ago always feels great. Some of these folks might form the assumption from people like me that everyone's willing to do this for them, I dunno. Just a theory, and if this is the cause I'm sorry. I love showing newbies around the game and seeing those 'Whoa that's awesome' reactions from first time discoveries.

...Gold beggars. My level 14 paladin got asked for 8g by a 58 death knight. /cry
I told him to go quest in outland. 2g per quest turn in. And I'll admit there was only one time I have ever done this. I was on my tauren druid and my group was waiting on me to head into Wailing Caverns. It was my first character on the server, I had nothing, and I was in a rush and ran out of silver while training. Being the healer, I really wanted that last regrowth rank increase so I ran back and forth vendoring everything in my bags that wasn't soulbound. (which wasn't a lot, poor gal didn't have many bags on her) I was still 10 or so copper short, so I war stomp and go AGH. This tauren druid nearby (70) that had been watching me this whole time asks what I'm doing, and I explain and say 'You wouldn't happen to have any trash items I could go vendor do you?' and he just gives me a gold instead. I /cheer, /hug and /kiss, go train my skills and overstate my appreciation (Ty ty ty! Sooo much etc), then accept the constantly reappearing summon my party keeps sending my way. Mailed the extra back to him later lol.
Totally agree
# Mar 27 2009 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
Loot ninjas have also become not only more numerous, but more cocky about what they do as well. Now that almost any raid instance can be pugged we get raid leaders who start a group with a handful of friends, maybe 3 or 4, then fill out the rest of the raid through trade chat. When the loot drops, they loot everything to their friends, laugh at the rest of the raid and log. This only really seems to take place in VoA and Sarth (both normal and heroic) because they only have one boss and don't need a group to stick together after one kill. I'm not saying that nothing ever gets ninja'd out of Naxx or Maly, but it wouldn't be worth killing a Naxx run for loot off of one boss and it's still pretty hard to pug Maly with people you don't know.

I'm on Maelstrom, and if you check our forums there are always four or five ninja alert posts at any given time right on the front page.

My other main concern is the number of people who act the way they do "because it's fun to **** people off." It's making me realize just how many sociopaths there are in the world, who get off at making other people unhappy. Trade chat is usually filled with these, but you can often find them trolling forums, guild chat, general in zones and there's always someone in Naxx. Of course, it's more than obvious that these people are just immature children or seriously ill adults. I've had a few people like this in my guild as of late, and i was amazed to find out that one of them was 23. All that guy ever talked about was how horrible everyone else was at playing their class (this guy was a DK who would refuse to do anything but DPS...no sparks on Maly, nothing) and how he was going to strangle so and so's whale of a mother with piano wire while he made love to her (not his exact words.) He was RL friends with an officer, and we were often told, "he's just playing around."

He ended up quitting the guild because a female guildie who had been sending pictures of herself to guys in the guild was kicked for playing with them and pitting people against each other. Later we found out he indeed does have issues and seeks therapy more than once a week.

While anyone can play WoW, it does attract a certain demographic. The lonely, the insecure, and the just plain crazy can log on to WoW and get a small taste of what they wish they could do to the people in their lives. People who have social problems can make friends in ways they never could IRL, but on the other hand psychos can log on and mess with people all they want, even if it is just in a pixelated world.
STV
# Mar 27 2009 at 5:44 AM Rating: Excellent
17 posts
I remember questing in STV and getting whispers asking for a buff. It seemed odd since there was nobody around me, so I figured it was just a mistell and kept on questing. As I was turning in quests in Booty Bay this hunter ran up to me and starting jumping up in front of me as I was getting my quest rewards. This guy demanded that I give him mark of the wild and thorns for his pet. He was a little low for STV and he was spamming the trade channel for help with quests. Our conversation went like this:
Hunter: I need buffs, I just got ganked
MeDruid: You can't just demand people buff you and expect them to do it. If you want MoW then you should first buff me, then I buff you. Fort or AI are popular buffs, but BoK is also a good buff.
Hunter: Hunters cant buff noob... you suck
MeDruid: Then maybe you shouldn't play one of the most hated classes in the game.
Hunter: I do more dps than you noob
MeDruid: Bye, I'm off to solo things you can't handle yourself.
(Ignore Hunter)

It seems to me that most of the hunters and rogues are played but these immature players who want the rewards handed to them for just showing up. I rarely will do a PuG anymore, I just run with people from my guild or with people I know. There are some good hunters and rogues out there, but most I have encountered seem to be selfish people who want everything without giving anything.
for the horde!
# Mar 27 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Decent
i have to agree with most everything said here as i have had all of happen to me as well. as for beggers i see tham as nothing more than what they are and ignore them. but i dont mind helping people with short runs through instances until they stop listening ....... example i ran a low lvl hunter through rfc and at the begining i asked them to please stay back so they wouldnt gain arrgo. did they listen??? nope they died 4 times and i was fed up enough i told them this run is over till they can pay attention to the person who is takeing the time to help them. for ganking people that are flagged i am so very guilty im horde and i stay in charicter on my server i see an alliance flagged ohhhh you bet im going to take a swing even in the middle of rachet in a room full of guards. we both died but he went down first !
Rudeness
# Mar 27 2009 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
This is a subject that I've been discussing with my guildmates for quite a while. There are three types of this behavior that annoy me the most.

Trade Chat - Some of us are trying to advance our characters, make some gold, and upgrade equipment. I've grown tired of these clowns that use Trade as a pay-per-view chat room, thus rendering it virtually useless as a commercial aid. I understand that it's the only public channel that is visible in all major cities at once, and I couldn't care less. Take it to a private channel.

Newbie Bashing - No, they don't know what they're doing, they're newbies. Why some people feel the need to berate and harass those who are still learning the game baffles me. If only they would try teaching the rookies instead of insulting them, perhaps attitudes would improve, and rudeness would fade.

Ninjas - If i had one gold for every time some inconsiderate boob gathered/skinned/mined the resource i was fighting my way into, I'd never need to gather again. I have literally been standing on an ore deposit, still in combat, with a pile of corpses around me, when some twit runs up and starts banging away with a pickaxe. This would make sense if it was a Horde character stealing ore from an Alliance player, or vice versa. Unfortunately it seems that it is generally a level 80 from my own faction that is doing this.

All we can do to reverse this trend is try to set an example. I know that most of the time our pleas for sanity and civility are ignored or targeted for abuse, but there's no other way to teach the masses without administrative powers.
Rudeness
# Mar 27 2009 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
dargaelis wrote:
All we can do to reverse this trend is try to set an example. I know that most of the time our pleas for sanity and civility are ignored or targeted for abuse, but there's no other way to teach the masses without administrative powers.


*Waves hand* I was farming ore in thelgren rock on my 23 warrior at the same time I was gathering spider fangs for the warrior quest, and an 80 draenei mage appears beside the node I'm fighting beside. Instead of ninja'ing it she starts jumping up and down, which I'm sure we all realise by now is a universal 'Hey you want this?' I thought that was pretty awesome of her to 'ask' first, so I did a /salute and carried on my way, letting her have the cavern for farming since I only needed a couple more fangs for the warrior quest and could get them on the way out. She tapped the node and started mining only after I'd started heading away from it.
plz
# Mar 27 2009 at 4:10 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,047 posts
If you're asking someone to help you out, with only kind words as payment, surely you aren't going to short change them letters.
People Annoy me : /
# Mar 27 2009 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
I get very annoyed with other players in WoW, proof being I recently got a mod to increase the size of my ignore list and to share that list between my characters.

I dislike beggars with a passion... I never begged and I didn't get the epic flying training on four characters by getting handouts... I farmed ore, herbs and the crusader recipe for hours. If I see someone begging in town I just add them to my growing ignore list.

My main is a healer and there is nothing worse than wiping in a raid just to have people who are too lazy to run whisper spam you with "REZZ". We are all making the journey back, don't be so lazy. New guild members quickly learn that that won't work with us when they are told by a few members to "release and run you lazy-***".
Actually... worse than that, people who whisper spam me in combat "REZZ". You are level 80, have you not figured out that you cannot be resurrected in combat?

General rudeness has increased since I started playing about one and a half years ago. PuG raid leaders that don't respond to you when you whisper for an invite, people who ninja items, swearing at a tank because they died ( its the DPS's job not to get aggro ) and just general language. Oooo! you can swear. That takes guts and skill yeah.

I try and be nice in game, ask if I can need on an item, only taking for my main spec. or my armour type, saying please and thank you (well, pls and thnx... I'm guilty of that but my typing isn't the fastest so I try get my message out quickly).

I'll sign off with this premium example. A friend recently asked me how to guild kick a member. It seems they were running Naxx10 and a member lost a roll on a pair of Tier 7 pants and got upset when they wouldn't give them to him. So he shouted over Vent "You guys can all suck on my c***" and quit raid. He had only days before mentioned that people who quit raids should be guild kicked. So he did ;)
Well, I'm one of the good ones
# Mar 26 2009 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
hell, I'm the kind of person in game that asks if it's ok that I need on a blue or purple, hell, even a green, depending on what it is, even if I am the only person who wants or needs it. But then again, I say danke instead of please, mainly, because german is fun, and I say danke in real life as well, and i don't know, it seems to type easier, not because it's shorter, but it has a kind of roll to it. And the only people I beg for instance/raid runs from is my real life friends, who I know are going to say no anyway, I just do it to annoy them, and every once in a while, they say yes.. lol.
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