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need bard help pleaseFollow
Anonymous
I am new to everquest and I am really interested in the bard class..but I got kind of discouraged when my friend said it would be way too hard as a first character because of the song twisting...is he right?? should i play a cleric or something until i get a feel for the game? sorry if this question has already been asked and answered I really havent had the time to go through the forums yet, anyway...any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks
Ubah bard Draxton Smitz of the test server here! What makes me uber? Not my gear or guild of that... Twisting makes me uber. Mosy casual bards can twist 3 songs with out any dropping. But I go all out and twist 4. Aside from the occasional lag bump or fizzle I can keep for songs up with out any dropping. What is twisting? easy
I have my songs on hot buttons. So if i want to sing song one... i press 1. song 1=1 song 2=2 etc...
Simple Twisting:
play song1, as soo as the "casting" bard poofs hit 2,2 (that's right two times.) the first press stops song one and the second press starts song 2. then when "casting" bar poofs again 3,3. Stop here at 1st and start over at 1,1. This sia 3 song twist. To do a 4 song twist after the 3rd song bar poofs 4,4 then after that 1,1 repeat. In theory simple. But when you are running lag from the super amount of spell effects bard songs make you may be a split second late and a song will drop like .5 seconds then pick up again. your best bet is to get to level 3 or 4 and then sit in an empty zone away from NPCs and practice. if it is not too much trouble go for it.
I personally am amazing at twisting i think. *EGO*
I can keep 4 songs at once and type conversations at the same time while smoking a cigarette and watching tv and talking to my GF. No joke.
So yes. When playing a bard it is hard. Other players get annoying saying sing this now this then this. When a group is sitting and medding/regening you stand there and twist mana and regen song until you get the hp/mana combo song.
Yes a bard is hard an annoying but people love bards. It is not really the 1st person looked for when putting together a gorup but it is an awesome addition to ANY group. we melee dot haste slow snare mez charm.
so like i said play until level 3 or 4. No songs needed but get your level 1 or 2 song and keep one going with out twist it helps a bit. Then at 3 or 4 practice twisting. You will be doing it ALL THE TIME!
You don't like it? make a cleric. You want something less involved? Play a meleee. (except with new combat abilities)
Bards are by far the best solo class most likely. You know anyone else that can solo almost any outdoor zone in the game? (I said almost)
You want more info send em a tell on the Test Server. My toon is Draxton.
I have my songs on hot buttons. So if i want to sing song one... i press 1. song 1=1 song 2=2 etc...
Simple Twisting:
play song1, as soo as the "casting" bard poofs hit 2,2 (that's right two times.) the first press stops song one and the second press starts song 2. then when "casting" bar poofs again 3,3. Stop here at 1st and start over at 1,1. This sia 3 song twist. To do a 4 song twist after the 3rd song bar poofs 4,4 then after that 1,1 repeat. In theory simple. But when you are running lag from the super amount of spell effects bard songs make you may be a split second late and a song will drop like .5 seconds then pick up again. your best bet is to get to level 3 or 4 and then sit in an empty zone away from NPCs and practice. if it is not too much trouble go for it.
I personally am amazing at twisting i think. *EGO*
I can keep 4 songs at once and type conversations at the same time while smoking a cigarette and watching tv and talking to my GF. No joke.
So yes. When playing a bard it is hard. Other players get annoying saying sing this now this then this. When a group is sitting and medding/regening you stand there and twist mana and regen song until you get the hp/mana combo song.
Yes a bard is hard an annoying but people love bards. It is not really the 1st person looked for when putting together a gorup but it is an awesome addition to ANY group. we melee dot haste slow snare mez charm.
so like i said play until level 3 or 4. No songs needed but get your level 1 or 2 song and keep one going with out twist it helps a bit. Then at 3 or 4 practice twisting. You will be doing it ALL THE TIME!
You don't like it? make a cleric. You want something less involved? Play a meleee. (except with new combat abilities)
Bards are by far the best solo class most likely. You know anyone else that can solo almost any outdoor zone in the game? (I said almost)
You want more info send em a tell on the Test Server. My toon is Draxton.
Now i know why i hate bards......
big ol ego's
do yourself a favour do not become one of them, you will be rejected and hated by all other classes due to your huge ego and general annoyance factor.
On a serious note. Bards if played well are very very good but they do take a lot of work and IMHO, a base knowlage of the game BEFORE you start playing one.
You could take Draxonsmiths advice and become an uber twister of songs but still be a 'Bad' bard. Being a bard is more than just twisting songs, it's twisting the right songs, at the right time, on the right targets.
knowing which Mob to mez and which to charm and when and what to do when you have is an artform. most good bards i know have 2-3 other high level chars and believe me you can tell the difference between a good bard and a Bad one.
the joke Paragraph at the top shows what people think of bad bards, the huge ego of someone who THINKS that the are the best class in the game but are a detrement to a group.
I agree Bards have the base ability to be far better than any other class in the game BUT you have to be 25% a better player to be a good bard than a good warrior. that is why your friend is pushing you to play another char.
i would advise you to play every other class to lvl 20 <takes about 1 week these days per class.> then sell every thing hoarde all that pp you have made and make that UBER bard you now dream about with all that knowlage you have aquired.
Then people will not hate you
Edited, Mon Jan 5 04:37:07 2004 by tarv
big ol ego's
do yourself a favour do not become one of them, you will be rejected and hated by all other classes due to your huge ego and general annoyance factor.
On a serious note. Bards if played well are very very good but they do take a lot of work and IMHO, a base knowlage of the game BEFORE you start playing one.
You could take Draxonsmiths advice and become an uber twister of songs but still be a 'Bad' bard. Being a bard is more than just twisting songs, it's twisting the right songs, at the right time, on the right targets.
knowing which Mob to mez and which to charm and when and what to do when you have is an artform. most good bards i know have 2-3 other high level chars and believe me you can tell the difference between a good bard and a Bad one.
the joke Paragraph at the top shows what people think of bad bards, the huge ego of someone who THINKS that the are the best class in the game but are a detrement to a group.
I agree Bards have the base ability to be far better than any other class in the game BUT you have to be 25% a better player to be a good bard than a good warrior. that is why your friend is pushing you to play another char.
i would advise you to play every other class to lvl 20 <takes about 1 week these days per class.> then sell every thing hoarde all that pp you have made and make that UBER bard you now dream about with all that knowlage you have aquired.
Then people will not hate you
Edited, Mon Jan 5 04:37:07 2004 by tarv
Scholar
18 posts
Well a good post on twisting but I might add something to it to possibly make things easier for you. Set up hotkeys for twisting with the following examples.
Hotkey 1 for Song 1
/stopsong
/cast 1
Hotkey 2 for Song 2
/stopsong
/cast 2
By adding in the stopsong you dont have to hit the hotkey twice. to twist 3 songs simply hit 1 wait 3 sec for song to "pulse" then hit 2 wait 3 sec then hit 3.
That simple.
As far as playing a bard goes I think they are a blast to play. Once you get the hang of it they are a fun solo class and are also a great utility in groups.
My bard is only level 32 so I can't comment much on the high end game. I have a 65 warrior as my main and know they are useful on raids for their resist and mana songs.
The thing I dislike the most about the class is during group downtime your still having to twist songs to be effective for the most part. So you never really get a rest. And I am not yet good enough to be able to twist and chat very much at the same time, so it kind of limits your socilization within a group some.
Dont listen to others. Play the class you want as you will be putting in a lot of time and effort into that character and you should like what your playing.
Hope this helps. Good luck!!
Hotkey 1 for Song 1
/stopsong
/cast 1
Hotkey 2 for Song 2
/stopsong
/cast 2
By adding in the stopsong you dont have to hit the hotkey twice. to twist 3 songs simply hit 1 wait 3 sec for song to "pulse" then hit 2 wait 3 sec then hit 3.
That simple.
As far as playing a bard goes I think they are a blast to play. Once you get the hang of it they are a fun solo class and are also a great utility in groups.
My bard is only level 32 so I can't comment much on the high end game. I have a 65 warrior as my main and know they are useful on raids for their resist and mana songs.
The thing I dislike the most about the class is during group downtime your still having to twist songs to be effective for the most part. So you never really get a rest. And I am not yet good enough to be able to twist and chat very much at the same time, so it kind of limits your socilization within a group some.
Dont listen to others. Play the class you want as you will be putting in a lot of time and effort into that character and you should like what your playing.
Hope this helps. Good luck!!
EQ Diva
is your friend for being a bard.
main = 58 nec, bard = 55th and starting on his epic.
twisting is easy once you get the hang of it. a 3 twist is a cake walk, then 4th is a little more challanging but doable.
#1 sujestion for any new bard out there that has never played a bard let along EQ.
DO NOT twink him/her. bards will suffer more from twinking then any other class in the game. you need to know what to do and more important what NOT TO DO to survive as a bard.
comeing from a nec (IMHO the most survivable class in the game) to a bard, the deaths are many and can be often if/when things go wrong. specificly compaired to a nec whom almost never will die if they are good. ive eaten more deaths in the last 2 levels on my bard then i have in the last 25 on my nec just to give you an idea, and im considered by many to be a good bard. note good, not great yet.
all of the points above tell the tail rather well. knowing how to twist, knowing what set of songs to twist, when to mez, when to charm, when to dot, when to run, etc are all important skills to learn.
the more you read about bards and EQ in general the easier the job becomes. this is not my first time though with a bard, but in the past i have always stopped in my low 20s just from frustration of one thing or an other. mainly not being wanted in groups.
that has greatly changed with LDoN. i cant go LFG without getting many tells to come be their puller. yes ther are still a handful of uneducated players out there who think bards are bad pullers, or worthless in groups, but those players are not ones i care to be around. hell my nec loves bards and seldom turns one down.
this time around im finding my bard to be rather easy, although ive hit a stumbling set of levels were my skills/powers in a group are greatly reduced due to some limitations on our songs in the mid 50s. the power of the bards solo is much greater then that of a nec, or any other class for that matter, up to 62nd, then things even back out again with some of the other casters getting ahead in the power of the bard. chanters for one with their DC pets.
if you do spend any coin on the new bard, ie you have a friend whom is going to help you get started, then buy a nice drum, and some low level armor and a nice sword.
walrus skin drums sell for roughly 400p on my server and are very nice drums for a new bard, and get some high ratio 1hs or 1hb weapon. dont go hog heaven on gear as your speed (drum + selo's) is your life blood and your safety net, not your gear.
but read, read, read, and read some more on the skills of other classes, and on a bard. the above link is a great tool for information and the bards there can help you out greatly.
is your friend for being a bard.
main = 58 nec, bard = 55th and starting on his epic.
twisting is easy once you get the hang of it. a 3 twist is a cake walk, then 4th is a little more challanging but doable.
#1 sujestion for any new bard out there that has never played a bard let along EQ.
DO NOT twink him/her. bards will suffer more from twinking then any other class in the game. you need to know what to do and more important what NOT TO DO to survive as a bard.
comeing from a nec (IMHO the most survivable class in the game) to a bard, the deaths are many and can be often if/when things go wrong. specificly compaired to a nec whom almost never will die if they are good. ive eaten more deaths in the last 2 levels on my bard then i have in the last 25 on my nec just to give you an idea, and im considered by many to be a good bard. note good, not great yet.
all of the points above tell the tail rather well. knowing how to twist, knowing what set of songs to twist, when to mez, when to charm, when to dot, when to run, etc are all important skills to learn.
the more you read about bards and EQ in general the easier the job becomes. this is not my first time though with a bard, but in the past i have always stopped in my low 20s just from frustration of one thing or an other. mainly not being wanted in groups.
that has greatly changed with LDoN. i cant go LFG without getting many tells to come be their puller. yes ther are still a handful of uneducated players out there who think bards are bad pullers, or worthless in groups, but those players are not ones i care to be around. hell my nec loves bards and seldom turns one down.
this time around im finding my bard to be rather easy, although ive hit a stumbling set of levels were my skills/powers in a group are greatly reduced due to some limitations on our songs in the mid 50s. the power of the bards solo is much greater then that of a nec, or any other class for that matter, up to 62nd, then things even back out again with some of the other casters getting ahead in the power of the bard. chanters for one with their DC pets.
if you do spend any coin on the new bard, ie you have a friend whom is going to help you get started, then buy a nice drum, and some low level armor and a nice sword.
walrus skin drums sell for roughly 400p on my server and are very nice drums for a new bard, and get some high ratio 1hs or 1hb weapon. dont go hog heaven on gear as your speed (drum + selo's) is your life blood and your safety net, not your gear.
but read, read, read, and read some more on the skills of other classes, and on a bard. the above link is a great tool for information and the bards there can help you out greatly.
I just started a brand new bard character Friday night, and was amazed that I was able to level 1-7 in one night (in Shadeweaver's Thicket). It seems to be a very fun class to play, but it soooo different from playing a standard warrior or caster. Although the character creation guide on castersrealm.com was very good for initial starting information I still have a couple of questions:
1) A comment was made on how to implement a hotkey using command line syntax. Is there a pause command that can be used to chain multiple songs in one hotkey command (i.e. stop song + cast song #1 + stop song + pause 1 sec + cast song #2...etc). If this is possible it would seem to be a more efficient way of twisting songs using only one keystroke (since hotkey macros can be assigned to a keyboard key).
2) As mentioned in a different thread instruments will increase the "power" of a song (provided it is the correct instrument for the correct song). When I placed a drum in my secondary slot I discovered that the primary slot had to be empty. I couldn't hold and instrument and weapon at the same time. Am I doing something wrong or is this working as designed?
3) Do magical instruments have any additional bonuses other than stat bonuses? Is it better to use a magical instrument rather than a non-magical instrument? What are some recommended instruments from players under level 30?
4) How does one skill-up on the rogue skills (once I am actually high enough to get them)? Is there any way outside of a LDON adventure to find/disarm traps? Can you do this on a normally chest or crate? Should Sneak be assigned to a movement key, much like Sense Heading in order to provide fast skill leveling?
1) A comment was made on how to implement a hotkey using command line syntax. Is there a pause command that can be used to chain multiple songs in one hotkey command (i.e. stop song + cast song #1 + stop song + pause 1 sec + cast song #2...etc). If this is possible it would seem to be a more efficient way of twisting songs using only one keystroke (since hotkey macros can be assigned to a keyboard key).
2) As mentioned in a different thread instruments will increase the "power" of a song (provided it is the correct instrument for the correct song). When I placed a drum in my secondary slot I discovered that the primary slot had to be empty. I couldn't hold and instrument and weapon at the same time. Am I doing something wrong or is this working as designed?
3) Do magical instruments have any additional bonuses other than stat bonuses? Is it better to use a magical instrument rather than a non-magical instrument? What are some recommended instruments from players under level 30?
4) How does one skill-up on the rogue skills (once I am actually high enough to get them)? Is there any way outside of a LDON adventure to find/disarm traps? Can you do this on a normally chest or crate? Should Sneak be assigned to a movement key, much like Sense Heading in order to provide fast skill leveling?
Scholar
18 posts
Valzarius,
While I am far from an expert bard, I think I have learned the class fairly well so will attempt to answer some of your questions.
1. It is possible to do this using the /pause command, however I don't think it is done often due to latencey issues as well as needing to have the ability to change what your twisting on the fly as conditions change. Lets say you have a hot key set up to twist 3 songs. Anthem D'Arms, Psalm of Warmth, and Hymn of Restoration. If you hit the hotkey and one of the songs fizzles for instance you would either miss the song in the rotation or have to start the hotkey again thus starting the sequence over. Also you need to be able to react and possibly change a song in mid cast say to control (mez) an add or snare a fleeing mob. You may have the mez song memorized but maybe not the first one in your multiple song hotkey. This can cause problems for the most part...and I don't know of many bards that do it this way.
2. Your observations are correct. Using an instrument will add certain modifiers to the song based on the type of instrument. Also if you have something equipped in the secondary slot you cannot equip anything in the primary slot. However there are some instruments that are Primary and Secondary slot instruments. TDoK is one. Lute of the Howler is Primary slot only. Also there are several weapons that also act as an instrument. Having these greatly enhances the combinations you can achieve. I have noticed however that you cannot ever equip two different true instruments. Lute of the howler being Primary and TDok being either you would think you could equip both of them...however you cannot. I prefer to use an instrument and then a weapon which has an instrument as an ability. I have both the trobudor's mace (brass 1hb) and Battle Drummer's Main-Gauche (percussion 1h piercing) The weapons tend to not have as good of modifiers to the songs as the true instruments do, but allow you to melee as well as get some boost to your songs. As far as the equipment goes what I have listed does me very well, however it's a bit expensive on TT. TDoK is the best droppable drum you can get and should be in every bards inventory if they can afford it. I spent most of my money on instruments and weapons first. The rest of my equipment can be improved later.
3. The magical instruments do provide higher modifiers to the songs. but I don't think there are any other advantages over non magical.
4. I map a movement key for sneak. I am not sure myself on disarm traps.
Another just side note on skills. It can be difficult to get your instrument skills maxed out for you level out in the field. Wind and Brass seems to be the hardest. One trick that I read somewhere and it has worked for me. Is to go to the bazaar and equip your brass instrument target a trader and play your AoE song Denon's Disruptive Discord. This will of course cause no damage to the trader and work your brass instruments up. Sometimes this can make ppl upset due to the spam so use this at your discression, maybe there is a better place to do it as well. I just start the song before I head off to bed, and it's maxed out when I wake up in the morning.
While I am far from an expert bard, I think I have learned the class fairly well so will attempt to answer some of your questions.
1. It is possible to do this using the /pause command, however I don't think it is done often due to latencey issues as well as needing to have the ability to change what your twisting on the fly as conditions change. Lets say you have a hot key set up to twist 3 songs. Anthem D'Arms, Psalm of Warmth, and Hymn of Restoration. If you hit the hotkey and one of the songs fizzles for instance you would either miss the song in the rotation or have to start the hotkey again thus starting the sequence over. Also you need to be able to react and possibly change a song in mid cast say to control (mez) an add or snare a fleeing mob. You may have the mez song memorized but maybe not the first one in your multiple song hotkey. This can cause problems for the most part...and I don't know of many bards that do it this way.
2. Your observations are correct. Using an instrument will add certain modifiers to the song based on the type of instrument. Also if you have something equipped in the secondary slot you cannot equip anything in the primary slot. However there are some instruments that are Primary and Secondary slot instruments. TDoK is one. Lute of the Howler is Primary slot only. Also there are several weapons that also act as an instrument. Having these greatly enhances the combinations you can achieve. I have noticed however that you cannot ever equip two different true instruments. Lute of the howler being Primary and TDok being either you would think you could equip both of them...however you cannot. I prefer to use an instrument and then a weapon which has an instrument as an ability. I have both the trobudor's mace (brass 1hb) and Battle Drummer's Main-Gauche (percussion 1h piercing) The weapons tend to not have as good of modifiers to the songs as the true instruments do, but allow you to melee as well as get some boost to your songs. As far as the equipment goes what I have listed does me very well, however it's a bit expensive on TT. TDoK is the best droppable drum you can get and should be in every bards inventory if they can afford it. I spent most of my money on instruments and weapons first. The rest of my equipment can be improved later.
3. The magical instruments do provide higher modifiers to the songs. but I don't think there are any other advantages over non magical.
4. I map a movement key for sneak. I am not sure myself on disarm traps.
Another just side note on skills. It can be difficult to get your instrument skills maxed out for you level out in the field. Wind and Brass seems to be the hardest. One trick that I read somewhere and it has worked for me. Is to go to the bazaar and equip your brass instrument target a trader and play your AoE song Denon's Disruptive Discord. This will of course cause no damage to the trader and work your brass instruments up. Sometimes this can make ppl upset due to the spam so use this at your discression, maybe there is a better place to do it as well. I just start the song before I head off to bed, and it's maxed out when I wake up in the morning.
If you don't want to bind it to a key for whatever reason, an easy way to skill up Disarm Traps is to visit SolA and spam click on the swinging scythe near the entry or one of the other "traps" in the dungeon (some slab of rock that moves up and down and spiky gates that open and close). You can't sense those traps though for some odd reason, but clicking it will cause it to stop swinging and potentially give you a skill up in Disarm. Don't use the Disarm hotkey and wait for it to refresh, just click the scythe.
The only way I know to train Sense Traps is either to bind it to a key or just hit it a lot.
The only way I know to train Sense Traps is either to bind it to a key or just hit it a lot.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Anonymous
Regarding macro for multiple song twist using pause feature. My Bard is 45th level and has Ldon'd alot. I cannot tell you how many times I have started then stopped a song mid pulse to switch to another song to adapt to changing circumstances. A macro prevents the ability to do this and I would advise against it. Twisting becomes second nature relatively quickly and a Bard's strength is their ability to adapt to just about any situation quickly and effeciently.....with no down time for medding!!
Just my opinion.
Alayen 45th Bard of Brell
Just my opinion.
Alayen 45th Bard of Brell
for training up sence and disarm traps there is no need for a trap to be there for your skill to increase, i usually stand on the top lvl of befallen at lvl 20 and spam hide/sneak/sence trap /disarm traps at the locked door.
Some really great advice...thanks everyone. I also checked out the hyperlink to EQ Diva, which answered some more of my initial questions.
3 posts
Great advice from everyone, i would just say the same to back-up some.. i have a friend who has played the game a long time, but he still cant handle the heat of being a Bard. Know that maybe this isnt your class after all, u can try playing one but sometimes this class can be too much for one, and thats not a bad thing. There are many other classes who are greatly wanted and alot less consuming in there gameplay. Clerics, shamans, warriors.. wiz,mag,nec for great dps.. You might actually like being another class more then a Bard just for the headache it is sometimes to do so much. But you can always try it out, no harm in trying, just sometimes alot of wasted time you could work on a class that more suits you.
-Gylendx Oriandis
58th Troubadour of Familjen
Saryrn
-Gylendx Oriandis
58th Troubadour of Familjen
Saryrn
Quote:
for training up sence and disarm traps there is no need for a trap to be there for your skill to increase
The spinning book in PoT is the same way for pick locks. You don't have to wait for the door to open and close so you can skill up faster on the book than you can on a door. Plus no annoying door hinge noises
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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