I have been reading here and at SOE's boards that Shamans have been nerfed and that BSTs are getting slows eqivilent to SHMs making the SHMs useless.
Then I logged on today and saw a high level(65+) SHM saying he couldn't get a group for several days at a time and was considering rerolling.
So now I am left to wonder if I want to invest the time in my SHM or make something else.
So are SHMs worth it or have they been rendered pointless recently?
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Are Shamans worth it now?Follow
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heyas,
im a shammy of the 36th season woot! (didnt think i would get this far) i really enjoy my shammy and the farther i go the less problems i have getting groups.
shammys are very versitile i spent the evening yesterday as group healer lol they didnt have a cleric and that was fun different for me.
we can dot root heal bash and blast and have a pet.
weve got great buffs and other skills like alchemy if you cant find a group no big deal fire up the trusty companion spirit buff yourself and the pet and go solo
we may not make as much money as clerics through donations with the temp but everyone wants a sow and the higher end buffs so you can make some plat that way
as for slowing (it is my opinion) that if you are with an underpowered group you are better off doing a double dot sicking the pet on em and if need be run up and join the fray woohoo.
my shammy is my main and i only found eq a few months ago
ive got a great deal to learn yet but i am enjoying the game and
wouldnt want to be another class at the moment
so in answer to your questions are shammys still worth it
you bet =)
good luck and good hunting
im a shammy of the 36th season woot! (didnt think i would get this far) i really enjoy my shammy and the farther i go the less problems i have getting groups.
shammys are very versitile i spent the evening yesterday as group healer lol they didnt have a cleric and that was fun different for me.
we can dot root heal bash and blast and have a pet.
weve got great buffs and other skills like alchemy if you cant find a group no big deal fire up the trusty companion spirit buff yourself and the pet and go solo
we may not make as much money as clerics through donations with the temp but everyone wants a sow and the higher end buffs so you can make some plat that way
as for slowing (it is my opinion) that if you are with an underpowered group you are better off doing a double dot sicking the pet on em and if need be run up and join the fray woohoo.
my shammy is my main and i only found eq a few months ago
ive got a great deal to learn yet but i am enjoying the game and
wouldnt want to be another class at the moment
so in answer to your questions are shammys still worth it
you bet =)
good luck and good hunting
Hi Rildeon! hehe I think I might have grouped with you in DSP on my necro yesterday!!! hehe... nice to see you again if I did...
BTW-- Shamans are great! Their slows are awesome and they can solo... the get pets and awesome buffs, they can solo and they get Cannibalize! I am not sure about that BST>Shaman slow thingy, if it is true shamans are still definately worth it
BTW-- Shamans are great! Their slows are awesome and they can solo... the get pets and awesome buffs, they can solo and they get Cannibalize! I am not sure about that BST>Shaman slow thingy, if it is true shamans are still definately worth it
shaman are still worth it......
Middle to high end, my opinion is that Shammies are definitely worth it.
They can cover Slow and main healer roles in many zones, and slow and patch healer in the remainder.
They're the ideal duo partner to a tank class.
They're damn near essential on raids.
OK, they suffer slightly to beastlords in some ways, as beastlord can do some buffing, slow and offer reasonable DPS. But BST healing in now way compares.
They're also a strong solo class (Please, lets not get into the solo debate again though ladies and gents)
GL in your shamanning
Ash
They can cover Slow and main healer roles in many zones, and slow and patch healer in the remainder.
They're the ideal duo partner to a tank class.
They're damn near essential on raids.
OK, they suffer slightly to beastlords in some ways, as beastlord can do some buffing, slow and offer reasonable DPS. But BST healing in now way compares.
They're also a strong solo class (Please, lets not get into the solo debate again though ladies and gents)
GL in your shamanning
Ash
They won't nerf the shaman down to a point where they aren't 'worth' playing. Anyways, they'll always have a place in a raiding guild and an exp group. Their buffs are just too awesome.
[edit]BL slow never matches a shaman's. All of their buffs are always kinda close, but they're never equal. Shamans are THE buffers.
Edited, Wed Jun 29 01:04:21 2005 by SceltorEltor
[edit]BL slow never matches a shaman's. All of their buffs are always kinda close, but they're never equal. Shamans are THE buffers.
Edited, Wed Jun 29 01:04:21 2005 by SceltorEltor
I play a 70 Bst and never slow over a Shaman or Enchanter in an xp group or raid. Bst's slows arent as good and they are resisted ALOT more than a Shaman's or Enchanters. In addition to their slow Shaman can Debuff, heal and have bar non the best melee buffs in the game.
I retired a 58/25aa bst to work on my shammie when he was 35 .. 65/50+ now and not looking back except when I see way too cheap leather.
I am a 65 shammy and certainly still like my class. In higher mobs, when slowing is essential, a bst throwing on a slow before me, often makes sure there is a slow on the mob, then I can be casting a form of malo first, and then the slow. Mine usually overrides the bst slow, but if mine fails, at least mob is usually slowed by one of us.
Cool, thanks for the reassurance everyone.
My Shaman is only a level 18 Ikky but after reading some things I was becoming a bit discouraged of leveling him. I enjoy my shaman and would hate to see him become inconsequential.
One more question, do Shamans ever become less mana-intensive?
If I cast the full repertoire of slows, dots, disimpower and nuke after two mobs I'm leaning on a rock wheezing telling my group to go on without me!
Thanks again!
My Shaman is only a level 18 Ikky but after reading some things I was becoming a bit discouraged of leveling him. I enjoy my shaman and would hate to see him become inconsequential.
One more question, do Shamans ever become less mana-intensive?
If I cast the full repertoire of slows, dots, disimpower and nuke after two mobs I'm leaning on a rock wheezing telling my group to go on without me!
Thanks again!
Quote:
If I cast the full repertoire of slows, dots, disimpower and nuke after two mobs I'm leaning on a rock wheezing telling my group to go on without me
Once you progess in levels some and start grouping with an actual tank, you'll get out of this habit quick like.
I have a 62 lvl Shamy and just luv him to death. We were in PoV the other night and did a exp' with me a BL and chanter. The chanter had the best haste and I could slow much more often than the BL. The Bl slows would be resisted about three times more than mine, but I must say he did do more DPS than I did, but then again I was healing too and needed to watch the mana output. the just of it is, Yes BL can slow but we shamans have it all sowed up when it comed to buffing a group, de-buffing the mobs and slowing the mobs. Now if I could just Mez'...... that would rock.
Quote:
One more question, do Shamans ever become less mana-intensive?
If I cast the full repertoire of slows, dots, disimpower and nuke after two mobs I'm leaning on a rock wheezing telling my group to go on without me!
If I cast the full repertoire of slows, dots, disimpower and nuke after two mobs I'm leaning on a rock wheezing telling my group to go on without me!
Once you get cannibalize at 23 you will canni, canni, with regen cast on yourself, and you will never stop the canni dance. Mana flows.
In a group, my standard things to do to the mob is a malos type (decrease resistances), slow, dot1, dot2. You have to be careful because slow grabs huge agro. In some places you must wait until the mob gets down to 95% hp to slow, or it will come your way. Sometime that makes the tank mad and sometimes it makes you dead.
In a word, yes. I have a Troll Shaman, and although not my main he is still a very useful and sought after character. Shaman-Monk is still one heck of a duo.
If you go to any class specific forums you'll see countless "omgz we are nerfed we are worthless now" posts. Yes, every single board has them. If you believe those, then every single EQ class is worthless.
Edit (Bad Info removed)
I know several Shamans from the level 10 to level 58, and every one of them absolutely LOVES their shamans. They also gripe about this, and this alone;
People expect Shamans to be able to do EVERYTHING because they can do everything. (This is typically found in groups below level 40, because not everyone knows or has a Shaman) It quickly leads to long meditation breaks, and complaints about shaman mana. Then they always wanna say the magic word " Cannibalize". Yeah it helps, but it's not a miracle mana fixer. At any rate, we came to one census; in a group a Shaman should pick a role. Maybe two. I simplify them with stereotypes of the Healer, the DoT Slower, and the Buffer.
Shaman slows are essential imo at 55+
Shaman haste is better than nothing, but get an Enchanter if you can.
Shaman Nukes aren't worth using very much except in a crisis (example MobX is running towards some ugly potential adds)
Shaman buffs consolidate the higher you get, which means more group spells involving multiple stats, instead of one spell for each stat buff.
Shaman's are the 3rd rate healer (compared to #1 the Cleric, and #2 the Druid) but they are capable of being a group healer. (My 34 Shaman had no problem Slowing mobs, and Hasting 2 paladins level 42 and 43 and keeping them healed in Dulak's Harbor, without a med break until the paladins were both Oom (at which point I generally still had mana and used that time to recast buffs))
Shaman melee is competative to other casters, not really worth adding your DpS when you would be better off medding. Do /assist /pet attack the fight though. Your weapon and defense skill should get a healthy enough workout when you solo, so don't worry about it as much while in a group. They need you to have mana so you can do everything, remember?
I must reinforce what the others have said, class forums always have nay-sayers, but also on the same forum is valuable information on how to solo a shaman, and many many experiences of what went right / wrong / like / dislike about soloing.
Edited, Sat Jul 2 06:20:14 2005 by Komzur
I know several Shamans from the level 10 to level 58, and every one of them absolutely LOVES their shamans. They also gripe about this, and this alone;
People expect Shamans to be able to do EVERYTHING because they can do everything. (This is typically found in groups below level 40, because not everyone knows or has a Shaman) It quickly leads to long meditation breaks, and complaints about shaman mana. Then they always wanna say the magic word " Cannibalize". Yeah it helps, but it's not a miracle mana fixer. At any rate, we came to one census; in a group a Shaman should pick a role. Maybe two. I simplify them with stereotypes of the Healer, the DoT Slower, and the Buffer.
Shaman slows are essential imo at 55+
Shaman haste is better than nothing, but get an Enchanter if you can.
Shaman Nukes aren't worth using very much except in a crisis (example MobX is running towards some ugly potential adds)
Shaman buffs consolidate the higher you get, which means more group spells involving multiple stats, instead of one spell for each stat buff.
Shaman's are the 3rd rate healer (compared to #1 the Cleric, and #2 the Druid) but they are capable of being a group healer. (My 34 Shaman had no problem Slowing mobs, and Hasting 2 paladins level 42 and 43 and keeping them healed in Dulak's Harbor, without a med break until the paladins were both Oom (at which point I generally still had mana and used that time to recast buffs))
Shaman melee is competative to other casters, not really worth adding your DpS when you would be better off medding. Do /assist /pet attack the fight though. Your weapon and defense skill should get a healthy enough workout when you solo, so don't worry about it as much while in a group. They need you to have mana so you can do everything, remember?
I must reinforce what the others have said, class forums always have nay-sayers, but also on the same forum is valuable information on how to solo a shaman, and many many experiences of what went right / wrong / like / dislike about soloing.
Edited, Sat Jul 2 06:20:14 2005 by Komzur
Shm back up heal, rez are somewhat helpful. of course the buffs.
shm, or bst + brd is the way to go, ***** enchanters, they are worthless :p
shm, or bst + brd is the way to go, ***** enchanters, they are worthless :p
Shaman is you need heals
Chanter if you need CC(coughandcan'tfindabardcough >_>)
Beast if you need DPS
Bard if you have a shaman or beast......erm bard if you have anything >_>
Chanter if you need CC(coughandcan'tfindabardcough >_>)
Beast if you need DPS
Bard if you have a shaman or beast......erm bard if you have anything >_>
Quote:
People expect Shamans to be able to do EVERYTHING because they can do everything. (This is typically found in groups below level 40, however not everyone knows or has a Shaman) It quickly leads to long meditation breaks, and complaints about shaman mana. Then they always wanna say the magic word " Cannibalize". Yeah it helps, but it's not a miracle mana fixer. At any rate, we came to one census; in a group a Shaman should pick a role. Maybe two. I simplify them with stereotypes of the Healer, the DoT Slower, and the Buffer.
I haven't gotten that in a while thank heavens, but I have told groups outright, at a lesser level, no I will not buff, main heal, haste, slow, debuff, root, and dot, that mana only goes so far. I have done it, but an hour of that, and I need to relax and play a game or something.
Pfunkman it seems I get another discrepency with you. You said counters don't have anything to do with timers, I would like to know what the disease counter does then, for I am apparantly misinformed (I was under the impression a counter was a tic.. Learn something new everyday!) You said it has something to do with resists? What does it do? Subtract from the mobs resistance? Add to it? Is it a stacking issue?
Ok lemme quote you now
I am not everyone, and hardly your conventional xp groupie. Here's what we use; PLD / PLD / SHM / BRD / NEC / CLR
Alternates for ONLY one PLD = SK / MNK / ROG
Alternates for CLR = DRU
Alternate for SHM = BST
Alternate for BRD = ENC
Altertnate for NEC = ENC / DRU
note: at the most i will only substitute up to two original structure classes for my experience grinds.
Just my opinion that Shaman's are essential, but a Beastlord can fit the role. We tend to group in a structure designed that anyone can take aggro and survive for a bit. Wizards drop like flies. Mages think their pets can take over as main tank. Warriors lose aggro so much they might as well be rogues without a BS ability. I realize there are alot of gamers who will try to contradict this, so fire away.
Edited, Sat Jul 2 06:22:52 2005 by Komzur
Learn something new everyday!) You said it has something to do with resists? What does it do? Subtract from the mobs resistance? Add to it? Is it a stacking issue? Ok lemme quote you now
Quote:
you will find the higher level you get how untrue that is in many many situations you will find beasts and chanters slowing in xp groups end game
I am not everyone, and hardly your conventional xp groupie. Here's what we use; PLD / PLD / SHM / BRD / NEC / CLR
Alternates for ONLY one PLD = SK / MNK / ROG
Alternates for CLR = DRU
Alternate for SHM = BST
Alternate for BRD = ENC
Altertnate for NEC = ENC / DRU
note: at the most i will only substitute up to two original structure classes for my experience grinds.
Just my opinion that Shaman's are essential, but a Beastlord can fit the role. We tend to group in a structure designed that anyone can take aggro and survive for a bit. Wizards drop like flies. Mages think their pets can take over as main tank. Warriors lose aggro so much they might as well be rogues without a BS ability. I realize there are alot of gamers who will try to contradict this, so fire away.
Edited, Sat Jul 2 06:22:52 2005 by Komzur
The way the "counters" work...
Imagine you have a spell that "adds 20 disease counters". To look at this in a physical sense, imagine you're holding 20 poker chips and by casting it on that mob, you're giving him those chips to hold. In order for him to remove that spell, he has to get rid of those chips. Cure disease spells remove a certain number of counters per cast. Since the spell Cure Disease removes 4 counters, it would take 5 casts to remove that spell with 20 counters.
Why is it so important that shaman slows and chanter tashes add disease and poison counters, respectively? So that people aren't afraid to debuff a mob. Casting cancel magic on a mob will NOT remove the slow. You'd have to cast cure, etc, and that's not likely, but you CAN remove slow from yourself if you get slowed if you know what to do...
One thing to keep in mind when talking about shaman slows though. They have "magic based" slows and "disease based" slows. They BOTH add disease counters, for the reason I mentioned above. The difference is the resist check the mob performs for each one. Many many mobs have very high MR, but their DR is often times considerably lower. This is the situation where a shaman has a slight advantage. The disease based slow is a lower percentage then the magic based one, but against a highly MR mob, it can be MUCH easier to land. Shamans are the only toons that get disease based slows, IIRC.
Pfunk hit the nail on the head as to when a chanter is preferred over a shaman and vice versa. Melees LOVE shamans. Casters LOVE chanters. If you have a melee heavy group, it may be a bit more beneficial to have a shaman, etc, unless you are worried about CC and don't have any other form (ie ranger ghetto CC or bard CC), in which case you would probably choose a chanter over a shaman, melee heavy or not.
Imagine you have a spell that "adds 20 disease counters". To look at this in a physical sense, imagine you're holding 20 poker chips and by casting it on that mob, you're giving him those chips to hold. In order for him to remove that spell, he has to get rid of those chips. Cure disease spells remove a certain number of counters per cast. Since the spell Cure Disease removes 4 counters, it would take 5 casts to remove that spell with 20 counters.
Why is it so important that shaman slows and chanter tashes add disease and poison counters, respectively? So that people aren't afraid to debuff a mob. Casting cancel magic on a mob will NOT remove the slow. You'd have to cast cure, etc, and that's not likely, but you CAN remove slow from yourself if you get slowed if you know what to do...
One thing to keep in mind when talking about shaman slows though. They have "magic based" slows and "disease based" slows. They BOTH add disease counters, for the reason I mentioned above. The difference is the resist check the mob performs for each one. Many many mobs have very high MR, but their DR is often times considerably lower. This is the situation where a shaman has a slight advantage. The disease based slow is a lower percentage then the magic based one, but against a highly MR mob, it can be MUCH easier to land. Shamans are the only toons that get disease based slows, IIRC.
Pfunk hit the nail on the head as to when a chanter is preferred over a shaman and vice versa. Melees LOVE shamans. Casters LOVE chanters. If you have a melee heavy group, it may be a bit more beneficial to have a shaman, etc, unless you are worried about CC and don't have any other form (ie ranger ghetto CC or bard CC), in which case you would probably choose a chanter over a shaman, melee heavy or not.
All tanks love shammies.... you buff us .... keep the mobs from wacking the crap out of us better than anyone ......and heal us. What's not to like about a shammy ?
just to add my humble 2cw...
I play a 65 pally - and my regular partner is a 65 shammy - we can duo most anything and anywhere we choose if we plan carefully. If I`m grouped I would generally prefer a Chanter for Slows & Crowd Control whilst the shammy DoTs and lets their hair down a bit !
...and many, many thanks to Jiggidyjay - I had no idea that was how counters worked, very well explained.../bow
I play a 65 pally - and my regular partner is a 65 shammy - we can duo most anything and anywhere we choose if we plan carefully. If I`m grouped I would generally prefer a Chanter for Slows & Crowd Control whilst the shammy DoTs and lets their hair down a bit !
...and many, many thanks to Jiggidyjay - I had no idea that was how counters worked, very well explained.../bow
Quote:
I play a 70 Bst and never slow over a Shaman or Enchanter in an xp group or raid. Bst's slows arent as good and they are resisted ALOT more than a Shaman's or Enchanters. In addition to their slow Shaman can Debuff, heal and have bar non the best melee buffs in the game.
I dont get why people always think this.
sure, beastlord's slow is resisted more than shaman's balance of the nihil, but it's not resisted more than enchanter slow, and plenty of shamans don't have nihil.
as a highend beastlord, I always slowed incoming raid names (or even just hard hitting trash,) if they were slowable (or at least tried!)
I was quite frequently the first person to get a slow to land, sure shaman slow overwrote it eventually, but 10 or 20 seconds of having a mob slowed extra sure outweighs my dps for that period.
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