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Allakhazam Poll: My group just wiped out..Follow
hear hear...control your aggro
lol I just have fun with whatever I do. I know my gear sucks. My groups constantly tell me "ya, you can tank this" (level 67 Paladin, crappy OoW, tier 1-2 PoP gear, pushing 8.9k hp) and I've been noted to die on a good 20% of the times those people make those statements...
I can hold some damn mean aggro. Before the patch that nerfed stuns, enchanters had to ask me to lose some aggro so their pets could hit.
When I wipe I laugh it off :D If it was my fault, I'll let my group members try to figure out how it could have been *shrugs* }:)
I can hold some damn mean aggro. Before the patch that nerfed stuns, enchanters had to ask me to lose some aggro so their pets could hit.
When I wipe I laugh it off :D If it was my fault, I'll let my group members try to figure out how it could have been *shrugs* }:)
Probably the #1 cause of wipes is someone didn't listen to the group/raid leader. I've gone through many spectular wipes. Once we tried a pickup raid on Emouch. Nearly all the toons in the raid were 70, and I was the lowest at 65. We made it to the back end of Tirranun's Delve with no problem and engaged the 3 mobs that we needed to kill to spawn Emouch. One died kiting the 2 while we worked to get 3rd one down to 10%.
But after those 3 respawned during Emouch fight, no one remembered to kite 2 while bringing one down to 10% half died before we got those 3 down. Unfortunately with no tank left alive, all but 2 wiped. Those 2 FD'ed but couldn't get away and ended up leaving the tasks to get booted out of the zone.
Properly organized, anyone can handle raids. I remember when my group were on 3rd floor of SSRA farming key parts and there were only 7 of us (3 toons are actually 3 boxed by one player so it's tricky) and I was the sole slower. >_< Took us 15 minutes to kill the named but no one died. We all were OOM though and I had to use Paragon to recover mana quickly.
But after those 3 respawned during Emouch fight, no one remembered to kite 2 while bringing one down to 10% half died before we got those 3 down. Unfortunately with no tank left alive, all but 2 wiped. Those 2 FD'ed but couldn't get away and ended up leaving the tasks to get booted out of the zone.
Properly organized, anyone can handle raids. I remember when my group were on 3rd floor of SSRA farming key parts and there were only 7 of us (3 toons are actually 3 boxed by one player so it's tricky) and I was the sole slower. >_< Took us 15 minutes to kill the named but no one died. We all were OOM though and I had to use Paragon to recover mana quickly.
oops
Edited, Sun Jul 3 06:20:38 2005 by DrMarvin
Edited, Sun Jul 3 06:20:38 2005 by DrMarvin
ROFLMAO , i saw that video haha!! my best friend that doesant play anything online showed it to me heh he said when he saw that, that it reminded him of when i showed him EQ, and tried "recruiting" him heh, i told him hell no , "i know what DA is , noobs" lol
wipes are always the Rangers fault, thats why Sony put them into the game
Dyfast Rezneeded - 90 Ranger / 95 Woodworker
Slayan Darkworshiper - 91 Shadowknight / 95 Weaponsmith
Slayan Darkworshiper - 91 Shadowknight / 95 Weaponsmith
14 posts
On wipes i think it IS the warriors fault....BUT...if he has done all that he can to keep aggro and it hasnt worked then its nobody's fault (unless he sucks and the ALL he can do is go AFK)....if there is a huge pull its EXTREMELY hard for a warrior to keep aggro on a pull of 3...so then it'd be the puller's fault.....if the nuker gets aggro then they should have learned that well that nuke gets aggro so dont cast it if i dont wanna/cannot tank for 15 seconds till the warrior gets aggro.....remember let the warrior use the disc taunts b4 u nuke/heal ....its a 30 second recast on them so if u nuke and get aggro after warrior uses one then ur waiting for 30 seconds till he can use it again to get aggro back, that is if the taunt button fails which fails 50% of the time and when it does work it sometimes just doesnt get the aggro....after a caster/healer dies from that aggro its usually a group wipe if ur over lvl 30 and fighting something harder then greenies.....without a healer it can be very hard for a group to survive on pulls of even 1 or 2....a pull comes in with warrior at 25%.....he gets aggro and a healer CH's him at 25....that healer auto gets aggro and warrior just used all taunts that dont repop for 30 seconds ....usually a healer cant tank for those 30 seconds.......
Mainly wipes happen when the group/raid isnt experienced.....and/or has poor/unexperienced leadership
Edited, Sun Jul 3 11:04:38 2005 by apricotpimp
Mainly wipes happen when the group/raid isnt experienced.....and/or has poor/unexperienced leadership
Edited, Sun Jul 3 11:04:38 2005 by apricotpimp
Scholar
31 posts
Pongu wrote
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If you the "uber"<stupid word> chanter that has the hp to tank, why bother getting a tank, just get a couple necros and a cleric, have the necros mana feed ya, while you tank.(sarcasm off). Or better yet! Get a clue and learn how to play that EBAY toon you just bought.
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sorry guy not an ebay toon. played up all 65 lvl's and 79 AA all on my own. I evenhave scs3 and a stone of perfidiouse wanting to help reduce agro. sounds like you have a good idea on how to play a warrior pongu, but the fact remains that a warrior is the least effective of all tank classes on grabbing and maintaining agro. Tashing and slowing at 95/94% is typical for working with a warrior. tashing on the pull is typical for working with sk, and tashing at 99/98% with pali, assuming they all know how to play their class reasonably well. I have been told by many I am the best or one of the best chanters they have ever played with, I almost never put up lfg because i usualy get a group invite before i find it nessarry to do so from someone who knows me. I have no problem admiting that a sk is better at agro management than a pali, or even aside from crowd control id rather group with a shammy than a chanter. every class has good points and bad. warrior get alot more hp and mitigation than pali or sk, try to just live with the idea that a warrior is inferrior to the others for grabing and maintaining agro
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If you the "uber"<stupid word> chanter that has the hp to tank, why bother getting a tank, just get a couple necros and a cleric, have the necros mana feed ya, while you tank.(sarcasm off). Or better yet! Get a clue and learn how to play that EBAY toon you just bought.
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sorry guy not an ebay toon. played up all 65 lvl's and 79 AA all on my own. I evenhave scs3 and a stone of perfidiouse wanting to help reduce agro. sounds like you have a good idea on how to play a warrior pongu, but the fact remains that a warrior is the least effective of all tank classes on grabbing and maintaining agro. Tashing and slowing at 95/94% is typical for working with a warrior. tashing on the pull is typical for working with sk, and tashing at 99/98% with pali, assuming they all know how to play their class reasonably well. I have been told by many I am the best or one of the best chanters they have ever played with, I almost never put up lfg because i usualy get a group invite before i find it nessarry to do so from someone who knows me. I have no problem admiting that a sk is better at agro management than a pali, or even aside from crowd control id rather group with a shammy than a chanter. every class has good points and bad. warrior get alot more hp and mitigation than pali or sk, try to just live with the idea that a warrior is inferrior to the others for grabing and maintaining agro
I play a paladin and stun so often that I rarely even need to use taunt unless I am in a group with some really rockin dps. I personally think if you are a pally or sk and you lose aggro often you suck and should give up. If you are a warrior keep pluggin along it isn't your fault god didn't give you the tools to do the job LOL!
Wipes dont bother me unless they were caused by stupid reasons that could have easily been avoided in my group if someone just thought about it. But generally I just get a rez and keep goin.
Scholar
19 posts
Honestly i play a 66 war and have played him from 1-66, i made him since back in the boat era... anyways, my war isnt that greatly geared, but i did find the time to grab myself a boc... As a war i do nothing but kick/taunt/Bellow.
So if your having a hard time, get a procing weapon, open up one or two new windows, set one for all the ooc and crap, another for grp raids and channels, and a third for guild etc...
Itll help you to see the important calls, or whatever. As a tank you should automatically keep clicking taunt, bellow etc.
So if your having a hard time, get a procing weapon, open up one or two new windows, set one for all the ooc and crap, another for grp raids and channels, and a third for guild etc...
Itll help you to see the important calls, or whatever. As a tank you should automatically keep clicking taunt, bellow etc.
It's probably my fault. I'm usually puller. If I pull too many and can't control the mayhem (through fades, mezzes, charms, highsuns, whatever), then I guess it would technically be my fault. The only exception to that would be the healer that throws a heal on me right after I fade or the MA that tries to get aggro before I call for the assist.
Edited, Mon Jul 4 02:03:44 2005 by Jiggidyjay
Edited, Mon Jul 4 02:03:44 2005 by Jiggidyjay
Usually laugh off wipes. They are part of the game. Only time I get upset is when the puller keeps pulling the same mobs that wiped us without adjusting their tactics. Also was on a Vox raid where more than half had never been on a raid before, raid leader was aware of this but did not tell anyone what to do on the first attempt. Second attempt he got mad and started yelling at everyone to come here but didn't explain why. We avoided a wipe on the second attempt but could easily have gone bad. Oh and the raid leader was acting as the puller and running the mh on a second computer.
Scholar
44 posts
Where is the "All the above"?
Voidrakr Smartinoff
Paladin of Marr
Paladin of Marr
it's really quite simple to asses who's fault it is when your group wipes, /random 200 whoever has the highest number it's their fault, if all numbers are below 100 it's SOE's fault or simply rotate assign a blamee before you go in there.
in all fairness if everyone is doing their job, if you've grouped together many times the way some of our guildies have then it's no one's fault. just rez get back in there and kick some hind end it's a game have fun with it instead of getting mad figure out who did what when and all of you chalk it up to experince, now if it's the same person don't the same thing over and over again then a trip to the woodshed might be in order.
in all fairness if everyone is doing their job, if you've grouped together many times the way some of our guildies have then it's no one's fault. just rez get back in there and kick some hind end it's a game have fun with it instead of getting mad figure out who did what when and all of you chalk it up to experince, now if it's the same person don't the same thing over and over again then a trip to the woodshed might be in order.
A jord militis is running towards you at full speed!
you tell the group, 'o crap did the druid just LD?'
You taunt a jord militis to stop attacking others!
You make a rude gesture to a jord militis.
scoot tells the group, 'yep.'
You tell the group, 'mez please'
Shiibydoo tells the group, 'mezzing >>>a jord militis<<< you break it, you eat it'
Scoot has awakened a jord militis!
Shiibydoo tells the group, 'mezzing >>>a jord militis<<< you break it, you eat it'
you tell the group, 'stop hitting!!!'
you tell the group, 'stop hitting!!!'
Scoot has awakened a jord militis!
you tell the group, 'stop hitting!!!'
Shiibydoo tells the group, 'mezzing >>>a jord militis<<< you break it, you eat it'
Scoot has awakened a jord militis!
you tell the group, 'man.. we don't have a rezzer'
you have been slain by a jord militis!
LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
You have entered the guild hall.
/ex
Please pay attention....
you tell the group, 'o crap did the druid just LD?'
You taunt a jord militis to stop attacking others!
You make a rude gesture to a jord militis.
scoot tells the group, 'yep.'
You tell the group, 'mez please'
Shiibydoo tells the group, 'mezzing >>>a jord militis<<< you break it, you eat it'
Scoot has awakened a jord militis!
Shiibydoo tells the group, 'mezzing >>>a jord militis<<< you break it, you eat it'
you tell the group, 'stop hitting!!!'
you tell the group, 'stop hitting!!!'
Scoot has awakened a jord militis!
you tell the group, 'stop hitting!!!'
Shiibydoo tells the group, 'mezzing >>>a jord militis<<< you break it, you eat it'
Scoot has awakened a jord militis!
you tell the group, 'man.. we don't have a rezzer'
you have been slain by a jord militis!
LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
You have entered the guild hall.
/ex
Please pay attention....
Scholar
31 posts
They're = they are
Their = modifier before a noun (their kitchen, their car)
There = to, into, or towards that place (Let's go over there)
Your = modifier before a noun (your hair, your pants)
You're = you are
I'm not trying to be elitist, I'm just get tired of poor grammar.
Their = modifier before a noun (their kitchen, their car)
There = to, into, or towards that place (Let's go over there)
Your = modifier before a noun (your hair, your pants)
You're = you are
I'm not trying to be elitist, I'm just get tired of poor grammar.
The main problem with slowing for a group that has a warrior for a MT is the fact that you never know if taunt succeded or failed. I hardly ever pull aggro with my chanter from my warrior, but it's because I can see how much aggro the warrior has generated, and adjust accordingly. Sometimes that means waiting for the weapons to make enough aggro (if you're in one of those 12 taunt fail streaks), but usually you can sooner. Scs3 made a huge difference in how soon I could cast. The only time I get aggro seems to be an abberation, I can see how much aggro the warrior has generated, and it's more than enough, but the mob aggros on tash, and can't hardly be taunted off. I did some experimenting with boggle, but it is either broken, or another one of the useless PoS spells SoE has pinched off on us and said "here, this will help."
30 posts
I dont see why everyone hates on Warriors for not holding agro. If you group with a warrior, get to know his/her agro abilities and ajust to it. I box a 62 monk and a 59 shammy, and my shaman's Defense just hit 35 because I know how much agro my monk generates. I can malo on inc and slow immediately afterwards with out any problems. It is all in knowing your classes, and ajusting to the given situation. If a tank pulls a named, hold the slow for 5%. The cleric may have to HoT ealier, but it is a lot better than doing rezzes on the casters.
A Suicidal group to start with the little Ranger that could. Had a lot of heart, but a poor choice for Main Tank at level 52. Things were going reletively well except for the 12-year-old, 52 Chanty that seemed to know everything about everything (except how to pick a main tank) started talkin trash to everyone, making the game experience less than enjoyable. As a 57 Wizard, []I experienced a moment of weakness & I cast Descention(sp) on him, sending him all the way back to the entrance of the LDoN.[/] He couldn't take a joke & ran 4 rooms ahead of the group and trained us all. Crappy thing to happen when you got 2 left to collect and 15 minutes to do it. Only myself and the shammy made it out alive(not counting the weasel chanty). Our shammy took a wrong turn and got killed trying to find his way back to where we all died. The now naked ranger followed me in and we killed 3 mobs and looted the 2 remaining peices for completion. Barely. Then the Chanty came back over & over & continued to train the CR operations until everyone had 2 or 3 corpses layin around. I hope that guy gets a non-removable bug in his PC that makes him unable to ruin EQ for others anymore. Karma is a son of a gun.
3 posts
I have to take exception to this.
It can be some others guys fault but if you take aggro its NOT automaticly your fault.
If your doing a raid MOB and some random wizzie__001 gets summoned and killed its his fault. If some guy gets summoned and then the MOB rampages threw the raid its the tanks fault.
I have had my mage summoned and killed just sending the pet in.
I have had my rogue grab aggro on the first backstab.
I have had my cleric summoned and killed after a few heals.
Some of this is the MT just calling engage to earily. Some of it is the fad with newer players and not gearing themselves up counting on their newly discovered "uber guild" to gear em up so they can do their jobs. A side rant for me is tanks who are 70 but no AAs. LFG in MPG/RS but not to tank to DPS because they only have 8.5K hit points. Don't people take pride in their gear anymore? and getting it themselves? Since when did guilds become the salvation army helping out people to lazy to help themselves?
Anyhow, Maybe you should qualify your post a bit ;) If your a max AA wizzie its your fault if you take aggro. If your a cleric just healing the MT its the tanks fault, and the rest can be sliding shades of grey.
It can be some others guys fault but if you take aggro its NOT automaticly your fault.
If your doing a raid MOB and some random wizzie__001 gets summoned and killed its his fault. If some guy gets summoned and then the MOB rampages threw the raid its the tanks fault.
I have had my mage summoned and killed just sending the pet in.
I have had my rogue grab aggro on the first backstab.
I have had my cleric summoned and killed after a few heals.
Some of this is the MT just calling engage to earily. Some of it is the fad with newer players and not gearing themselves up counting on their newly discovered "uber guild" to gear em up so they can do their jobs. A side rant for me is tanks who are 70 but no AAs. LFG in MPG/RS but not to tank to DPS because they only have 8.5K hit points. Don't people take pride in their gear anymore? and getting it themselves? Since when did guilds become the salvation army helping out people to lazy to help themselves?
Anyhow, Maybe you should qualify your post a bit ;) If your a max AA wizzie its your fault if you take aggro. If your a cleric just healing the MT its the tanks fault, and the rest can be sliding shades of grey.
Quote:
I have had my mage summoned and killed just sending the pet in.
Quote:
I have had my rogue grab aggro on the first backstab.
Quote:
I have had my cleric summoned and killed after a few heals.
Quote:
try to just live with the idea that a warrior is inferrior to the others for grabing and maintaining agro
Who is your EBAY agent? You need to try on a new game.
Warriors can Aggro an army and take no damage while you try to mez 10 or 20. I know you would rather tuck your head between your legs, but not everyone understands fast/furious. Necros make better CC than chanters imo, usually chanters have no guts.
Master Of Puppets(WaRRi0R)
4 posts
I can tell you my experiance as a 58level warrior. going into an area that I can solo and clear rooms myself without getting killed and then being in a group that can't seem to keep from getting wiped out. This is what I see as the problem.
People in a group like this don't seem to understand their role as a group member.
(before fighting mobs everyone should have buffs up as much as possible)
All can't attack as a rule.Tanks roles are to hit and take damage .... keep the mobs off other members.. if you have two tanks the tuffer one is the main then the other assists tank.. Tanks keep taunting use provoke or Berate to keep mobs on tanks... sometimes the tanks will pull to group.. this is important... let the puller bring the mob or mobs to the group unless the puller ask the group to come forward.
Group movement is also important.when told to move up.. don't take your time ... move up.Go to where puller(leader) asks you to go to a corner in a room ,against a wall .. don't stand in a hallway ,door or out in the open area ... there is a reason for that.. wandering mobs mostlikely wandering a certain path and and puller is trying to keep you from attracting when not wanting to.. just trying to keep adds low.
Again everyone has a role... if done right you can have a kick *** group....Clear room by room .. don't run after mobs if possible..(root the suckers or casters finish them off) healers ... heal.. enchanter mezz ,enchant for crowd control... or some that can root do that... use a little common sense and don't root mobs close to pop points.. wizzards and such with nice hard hitting dam spells use them to aid tanks.. or when mob becomes low enough to finish mob off.
Tanks are to come to the aid of casters that do pull the mobs to themselves.. Got to keep them off casters at all costs..
Again note everyone can't be the tank.
Healers keep tanks alive.
Tip; If a mob happens to be a healer as well,kill the dang thing... nothing more frustrateing as just about to kill a mob that is down to 20% and then see he is back up to 100% .If the tank is on a named or a main mob and a caster mob heals that mob well.. you know what I mean.... in that case I would say everyone jump on the caster mob/healer except the tank,unless he is already on him . then ofcourse just assit by all means..
This is from a Warrior tanks point of view.. there is much more but I think you get the jist of it...
P.S. If you have to get away..
The right thing to do is... tanks should fight to the death to so the rest of the group can get away.(that is if there can't be an evac potal ect.) Tanks should be able to hold mobs for at least enough time so that this can happen.Better one or two die than the whole group..And when a tank does do that... then please as I speak for all tanks .. the nice thing to do is to get a rez for the poor guy...after all he did die to save the rest...
I hope you take these tips to heart. I think you will have much more fun of a time if you do...
and try to remember .. it's only a game!
People in a group like this don't seem to understand their role as a group member.
(before fighting mobs everyone should have buffs up as much as possible)
All can't attack as a rule.Tanks roles are to hit and take damage .... keep the mobs off other members.. if you have two tanks the tuffer one is the main then the other assists tank.. Tanks keep taunting use provoke or Berate to keep mobs on tanks... sometimes the tanks will pull to group.. this is important... let the puller bring the mob or mobs to the group unless the puller ask the group to come forward.
Group movement is also important.when told to move up.. don't take your time ... move up.Go to where puller(leader) asks you to go to a corner in a room ,against a wall .. don't stand in a hallway ,door or out in the open area ... there is a reason for that.. wandering mobs mostlikely wandering a certain path and and puller is trying to keep you from attracting when not wanting to.. just trying to keep adds low.
Again everyone has a role... if done right you can have a kick *** group....Clear room by room .. don't run after mobs if possible..(root the suckers or casters finish them off) healers ... heal.. enchanter mezz ,enchant for crowd control... or some that can root do that... use a little common sense and don't root mobs close to pop points.. wizzards and such with nice hard hitting dam spells use them to aid tanks.. or when mob becomes low enough to finish mob off.
Tanks are to come to the aid of casters that do pull the mobs to themselves.. Got to keep them off casters at all costs..
Again note everyone can't be the tank.
Healers keep tanks alive.
Tip; If a mob happens to be a healer as well,kill the dang thing... nothing more frustrateing as just about to kill a mob that is down to 20% and then see he is back up to 100% .If the tank is on a named or a main mob and a caster mob heals that mob well.. you know what I mean.... in that case I would say everyone jump on the caster mob/healer except the tank,unless he is already on him . then ofcourse just assit by all means..
This is from a Warrior tanks point of view.. there is much more but I think you get the jist of it...
P.S. If you have to get away..
The right thing to do is... tanks should fight to the death to so the rest of the group can get away.(that is if there can't be an evac potal ect.) Tanks should be able to hold mobs for at least enough time so that this can happen.Better one or two die than the whole group..And when a tank does do that... then please as I speak for all tanks .. the nice thing to do is to get a rez for the poor guy...after all he did die to save the rest...
I hope you take these tips to heart. I think you will have much more fun of a time if you do...
and try to remember .. it's only a game!
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