Until recently I was a member of a lower level raiding guild. A member posted some concerns about what goes on in raids and after trying to get these items answered he was guild removed for not agreeing with the Guild or raid leader. In stead of providing him answers to his questions the guild and raid leader basically blaimed the raid force as a whole and said they were all whiners. Just wondering if this is a common problem in most peoples raids or if all raid leaders are this uncaring about their members needs. Raid leaders names and guild association have been removed to protect the innocent, here was what the raid leaders posted about his concerns:
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Ok a handful of things were brought to my attention. Some of them I don't even view as issues personally. But I said I'd pass them on for discussion, so here ya go.
1. Raids stopping and not moving for extended periods of time without an explanation from leader or officers.
- Meh not a big deal imo. If we stop to work out a tough pull or something, just tell em that. Think folks are just looking for a clearer picture sometimes.
2. People on a wall, mob pulled, assist is called, everybody naturally attacks from behind the mob and the push is insane, and raiders get yelled at for the push.- Make a separate assist key for these situations that says "surround the mob" in it somewhere? Whatever works.
3. Raids starting 45-60 minutes late after posted start time.
- IMO this one is not our fault...it's the fault of the people who diddle and doddle their way and don't make it to the raid on time to get moving. It was also suggested that we try a "30 minutes after posted time or cancel the raid" policy.
4. Assist not being called alot of the time.
- I dunno? I can't raid as much as most so I don't see this that much. XXXX learns to love his assist hotkey as much as he loves his Shift key? hehe
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These issues are crap and mostly come across more as whines then valid points. Everything i see discussed here is for the most part caused by the body that would issue the complains, the raid attendees themselves. Lets have a look at my explainations for these items of interest:
1. Raids stopping and not moving for extended periods of time without an explanation from leader or officers.
- Meh not a big deal imo. If we stop to work out a tough pull or something, just tell em that. Think folks are just looking for a clearer picture sometimes.
A: We dont have the time when the raid is halted to explain everystep. Almost every case where the raid is parked for a few minutes the officers are busy doing something, res's, strats, finalization of a pull etc.. No way am i explaining the causes every time. Once in a while we do, but this is not going to be standard opperations. It's bad enough we have to explain the same strats over and over to the same folks time and again for mobs we kill often...
2. People on a wall, mob pulled, assist is called, everybody naturally attacks from behind the mob and the push is insane, and raiders get yelled at for the push.- Make a separate assist key for these situations that says "surround the mob" in it somewhere? Whatever works.
A: Gotta toss the BS flag here. If you are melee, regardless of your pre-fight staging point, you are to suround the mob. Everytime, unless we say we need it pushed somewhere. The push is insane because those same melee are getting on the same side as each other and the pets... There own damn fault..
3. Raids starting 45-60 minutes late after posted start time.
- IMO this one is not our fault...it's the fault of the people who diddle and doddle their way and don't make it to the raid on time to get moving. It was also suggested that we try a "30 minutes after posted time or cancel the raid" policy.
A: XXXX is the raid form up time, not the raid starts killing time. If they had their asses at the designated location at the "Form up" time, we would be underway much quicker. As for the cancelling, we have never called a raid more then 45 minutes after start time. We always try to cancel them by 7:15 cst, which is roughly only 15 minutes before we realistically expect the raid to start moving.
4. Assist not being called alot of the time.
- I dunno? I can't raid as much as most so I don't see this that much. XXXX learns to love his assist hotkey as much as he loves his Shift key? hehe
A: If they would learn to wait for assist, i would not have to intentionally not call it on numerous mobs each raid to call out the toons that cant wait for assist. It's their doing, not ours. Learn to assist only when it's called, and I can call assist faster knowing i have sufficient aggro.
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I agree with what you've said
And I just want to re-iterate...these are not MY issues...I am of similar mindset to you on all of these. I was simply passing along the message because somebody was making these out to be the end of the world....hehe
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I know that lol, just wanted to give ya my takes/answers. Love em or not, thats what they are, my views on the whimpers.
Reply Re: Oh yeah
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Heh, new raid command:
/whine off
lol
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- Raid Leaders Who Don't Care
Raid Leaders Who Don't CareFollow
Quote:
1. Raids stopping and not moving for extended periods of time without an explanation from leader or officers.
- Meh not a big deal imo. If we stop to work out a tough pull or something, just tell em that. Think folks are just looking for a clearer picture sometimes.
2. People on a wall, mob pulled, assist is called, everybody naturally attacks from behind the mob and the push is insane, and raiders get yelled at for the push.- Make a separate assist key for these situations that says "surround the mob" in it somewhere? Whatever works.
3. Raids starting 45-60 minutes late after posted start time.
- IMO this one is not our fault...it's the fault of the people who diddle and doddle their way and don't make it to the raid on time to get moving. It was also suggested that we try a "30 minutes after posted time or cancel the raid" policy.
4. Assist not being called alot of the time.
- I dunno? I can't raid as much as most so I don't see this that much. XXXX learns to love his assist hotkey as much as he loves his Shift key? hehe
- Meh not a big deal imo. If we stop to work out a tough pull or something, just tell em that. Think folks are just looking for a clearer picture sometimes.
2. People on a wall, mob pulled, assist is called, everybody naturally attacks from behind the mob and the push is insane, and raiders get yelled at for the push.- Make a separate assist key for these situations that says "surround the mob" in it somewhere? Whatever works.
3. Raids starting 45-60 minutes late after posted start time.
- IMO this one is not our fault...it's the fault of the people who diddle and doddle their way and don't make it to the raid on time to get moving. It was also suggested that we try a "30 minutes after posted time or cancel the raid" policy.
4. Assist not being called alot of the time.
- I dunno? I can't raid as much as most so I don't see this that much. XXXX learns to love his assist hotkey as much as he loves his Shift key? hehe
1. Sometimes raid and class leaders need to plan something out(maybe you had less clerics than expected or not enough warriors and need to figure a pally or SK into the MT rotation) this happens a lot in lower end raiding guilds since everyone is pretty much new to raiding....expect some delays from time to time.
2. LEARN TO BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or corner the mob!!! this is the RAID LEADERS fault here not yours he should teach you(or learn for himself) how to box a mob or at least corner it
3. This one also falls on your leader(sometimes) you should at least start clearing to mobs right off the bat(now sometimes you have to wait for late commers friggin clerics/tanks!!....but if you have enough tanks and healers start clearing right away and if you have enough for the raid...start......don't wait for one or two...or hell 10 people......You are in a raiding guild not a family guild...again this is one your raid leader needs to do
4. Find the tanks and then procede to BEAT THE **** OUT OF THEM for not calling assist =p(God i love blamming tanks =p) but no really the tank should call assist(honestly the only ones who really need to talk in guild chat(well CoL used guild chat for official raid calls and used raid chat for talking(lag reasons or somethings) and even in raid chat you should talk unless you need to) is the main tank trash tank raid leader guild leader and the occastional char who might need to log off or something like that......use class channels for any class/heal buiseness))
Honestly it sounds like you need to find a new guild one of the first raiding guilds i was in was like that and believe me it only gets worse. When a guild leader kicks someone for asking legimate questions it's a bad thing.
Now that being said you do have to remember that the guild and raid leaders are incharge.......don't ***** about targets and things like that...that is their realm(IE don't start complaining b/c you are a caster and you are doing a lot of melee dropping targets etc.......) but in your friends case he had legit concerns.....
i'd start looking for another guild(now this sounds sort of evil......but hell if you have a bunch of DKP spend it first =p)
1) It also sounds like the raid leaders maybe didnt fully research the raid and are reading on allah about what to do next. I really cant imagine any circumstance where there is a delay where they dont know that there is going to be a delay, so they should give afk breaks to keep the raiders fresh if they are just going to be sitting there.
2) Unless otherwise told you should surround the mobs at all times.
3) Weak leadership, We do a raid dump at exactly our startime every raid night. If you are not in the zone and in the raid by tha time you get no dkp.
4) Again weak leadership.
The bottom line here is your raiding guild doesnt seem to have any strong centralized leadership. They may be new at the job and are learning things as well, however since they deguilded a person just for raising very legitimate questions I really dont think much of your raid leadership. Might be time to start looking for a new guild.
2) Unless otherwise told you should surround the mobs at all times.
3) Weak leadership, We do a raid dump at exactly our startime every raid night. If you are not in the zone and in the raid by tha time you get no dkp.
4) Again weak leadership.
The bottom line here is your raiding guild doesnt seem to have any strong centralized leadership. They may be new at the job and are learning things as well, however since they deguilded a person just for raising very legitimate questions I really dont think much of your raid leadership. Might be time to start looking for a new guild.
It's probably just out of shear frustration. Until you actually lead a few raids, you can't understand what it's like. The constant tells, people chatting in raid channels while you're trying to give directions, people showing up late, people whining about loot, all of it.
It can be overwhelming at times, but yes it sounds like they handled this badly. From what I'm gathering someone posted on the guild site asking some questions and was removed. I'm sure there's more to the story than just that, there always is. But after the raids, on the guild forum is probably the best way to handle feedback and improve raid strategies. As the guild gets more raids under the belt, it should get better.
It can be overwhelming at times, but yes it sounds like they handled this badly. From what I'm gathering someone posted on the guild site asking some questions and was removed. I'm sure there's more to the story than just that, there always is. But after the raids, on the guild forum is probably the best way to handle feedback and improve raid strategies. As the guild gets more raids under the belt, it should get better.
Some people are like slinkies, they aren't really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
If you have a bad raidleader, your guild will shrink. If you make raidleaders above and beyond criticism if they made HUGE errors. Your guild will shrink. If you have raidleaders who insult members abilities (despite being warned not to again), your guild will shrink.
A raidleader should be inspiring, competant and above all gain results by killing things and progressing a guild.
Seems if this guild deguilded someone for daring to ask questions then that guild is in trouble.
Edited, Thu Nov 17 10:52:47 2005 by JennockFV
A raidleader should be inspiring, competant and above all gain results by killing things and progressing a guild.
Seems if this guild deguilded someone for daring to ask questions then that guild is in trouble.
Edited, Thu Nov 17 10:52:47 2005 by JennockFV
I think its time to start looking for a new guild.
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
1 post
I know where this came from. I was an officer in Black Tower and this was posted in the forums they use in their alliance with Crystalline Waters on the Tunare server. The parties involved here are Griffiud who is the guild leader of Crystalline Waters and Erebos who is the guild leader of Black Tower and who also is raid leader. Its for reasons like this that I left there. And its this reason that I see many others leaving as well, I assume. Lesson to those in charge, those who take it upon themselves to lead and lead without caring about the others who support you: it makes you look like a total jerk, it ruins your guild, and you don't get too far that way. This is why these guilds have to continue to backflag, and will do so forever. They have poor leadership, and from the looks of it, the new guild officers aren't much better(in reference to the final snip there from Euzena about the new /whine off command.)I think I might enjoy sending this around to some people still guilded there, just for the fun of it.
Good luck to you.
Edited, Fri Nov 18 16:27:29 2005 by Fannarath
Good luck to you.
Edited, Fri Nov 18 16:27:29 2005 by Fannarath
2 posts
WOW. Dont even know where to start on this. Will take it from the top.
My first question is was this person /guildremoved for disagreeing with leadership loudly during a raid? If they were then they deserve to be removed. If items were posted on guilds board then they were wrongfuly removed. They;d be idiots for dealing with dissention by guildremoving dissentors.
Yes. It is common to have members that disagree with leaders and raid methods. No. I don't know of any raid/guild leaders this uncaring. How strong a guild is can be evident in how they value and consider member concerns.
Now before the issues lets start with fartknocker raidleader #1. Who the hell is this person posting issues like that? They totaly erase any credibility the issues may or may not have by prefacing them the way they did. Really. Is this person the bish of this raid leader or what? Any officers job is to pass the issues along as presented. He can put in his 2cp on them later but to discredit them as he puts them out there. that is just classless. Recommendation- Get a real leader.
1. The only time you stop is to prep for fight or if raid leader is lost as hell. If prepping then everyone knows what is goin on. My guess is they are just lost as hell. No worry if their new to zone or encounter but if you do same old stuff over and over. Tell raid leaders to cyber on their own time. Otherwise keep raid posted on whats goin on. Seems even the genius posting this agrees with keeping raid informed.
2. Duh. How about raiders just automatically surround mob unless othewise told. Raid leaders better be giving better instructions about where they want mobs unless it dont matter. If it dont matter who cares where it gets pushed?
3. Damn straight. If members arent there to start after 30 minutes then I will cancel the damn raid. Whether Im leader or not. Hahahaha. Sure things take awhile to form, but no more than 30 minutes. Most Ive seen just count on being done with buffs and moving 30 minutes after start time. If not there at that time you get to raid yourself and pipe down about buffs. Oh and no DKP for start!!!
4. Assist not called? If its not called I start attacking when mobs down to 95%. I know what tanks call assist and what ones dont. We dont call on trash. Named and target mobs its announced in /rsay that assist will be used on the upcoming mob. No questions then. I dont pay $14 to watch some ego-trippin, under-dpsed tank solo a mob. I want to kill too!! Hahahaha.
Now to respond to fartknocker raid leader #2.
1. Sounds like you kill same mobs over and over. At least thats what you say. Hows membership doing? I bet you lose a lot of people. With all that turnover you have a lot of new people on your raids every time that dont know how you and your uberness does things. You might want to share your boundless wisdom wit them to make raid more sucessfull.
2. You have a bs flag? I want one! Yeah, just like I said. Surround it unless otherwise told. You are telling them right? From your last response it dont sound like you like to tell them too much. So which is it? You telling them what you want or not? Ill throw my flag too if your tellin em.
3. If your waiting to call a raid for 45 minutes your dumb. I wouldnt wait around on you that long. Sorry. After 30 minutes take what you do have and do something appropriate for that raid force. Work on backflagging unless thats all you do anyway.
4. Dont be an **** bro. Call the frickin assist. you want an officer to administer 'didn't wait for assist' spankings then designate one! Dont punish the whole raid because of a couple of impatient raiders. Maybe if you didnt play silly games they wouldnt be so impatient. Sounds like all that waiting around has them chompin at the bit to kill bro.
Now to respond to fartknocker raid leader #1s reply to fartknocker raid leader #2. Grow some and quit being the step-and-fetch-it to raid leader #2. You did the person raising these issues a disservice and should be shamed. From the sounds of your guild there are a LOT of other raiders equally upset by these specific issues. I bet the person deguilded was speaking for a LOT of other raiders!
To label legitimate and sincerely raised issues as whines and whimpers. WOW. You are the most pathetic leaders Ive heard of. OK Im sure that all of this is a joke and Ive wasted a huge amount of time to respond but there are some good lessons here for how NOT to run a guild or raid.
Seriously if your a part of this gaggle get out. So, which fartknocker raid leader is Ereebos and which is Griffiud. Crystal Waters and Black Tower oughta be embarased!!!
Here is an idea for next raid, wait till fartknocker raidleader #2 engages mob and finally calls assist. Targer self and type /guildremove ENTER. Cast gate and ignore tells. Go post name of looking for guild board in guild lobby, wait for invite to new guild, and have fun playing game.
My first question is was this person /guildremoved for disagreeing with leadership loudly during a raid? If they were then they deserve to be removed. If items were posted on guilds board then they were wrongfuly removed. They;d be idiots for dealing with dissention by guildremoving dissentors.
Yes. It is common to have members that disagree with leaders and raid methods. No. I don't know of any raid/guild leaders this uncaring. How strong a guild is can be evident in how they value and consider member concerns.
Now before the issues lets start with fartknocker raidleader #1. Who the hell is this person posting issues like that? They totaly erase any credibility the issues may or may not have by prefacing them the way they did. Really. Is this person the bish of this raid leader or what? Any officers job is to pass the issues along as presented. He can put in his 2cp on them later but to discredit them as he puts them out there. that is just classless. Recommendation- Get a real leader.
1. The only time you stop is to prep for fight or if raid leader is lost as hell. If prepping then everyone knows what is goin on. My guess is they are just lost as hell. No worry if their new to zone or encounter but if you do same old stuff over and over. Tell raid leaders to cyber on their own time. Otherwise keep raid posted on whats goin on. Seems even the genius posting this agrees with keeping raid informed.
2. Duh. How about raiders just automatically surround mob unless othewise told. Raid leaders better be giving better instructions about where they want mobs unless it dont matter. If it dont matter who cares where it gets pushed?
3. Damn straight. If members arent there to start after 30 minutes then I will cancel the damn raid. Whether Im leader or not. Hahahaha. Sure things take awhile to form, but no more than 30 minutes. Most Ive seen just count on being done with buffs and moving 30 minutes after start time. If not there at that time you get to raid yourself and pipe down about buffs. Oh and no DKP for start!!!
4. Assist not called? If its not called I start attacking when mobs down to 95%. I know what tanks call assist and what ones dont. We dont call on trash. Named and target mobs its announced in /rsay that assist will be used on the upcoming mob. No questions then. I dont pay $14 to watch some ego-trippin, under-dpsed tank solo a mob. I want to kill too!! Hahahaha.
Now to respond to fartknocker raid leader #2.
1. Sounds like you kill same mobs over and over. At least thats what you say. Hows membership doing? I bet you lose a lot of people. With all that turnover you have a lot of new people on your raids every time that dont know how you and your uberness does things. You might want to share your boundless wisdom wit them to make raid more sucessfull.
2. You have a bs flag? I want one! Yeah, just like I said. Surround it unless otherwise told. You are telling them right? From your last response it dont sound like you like to tell them too much. So which is it? You telling them what you want or not? Ill throw my flag too if your tellin em.
3. If your waiting to call a raid for 45 minutes your dumb. I wouldnt wait around on you that long. Sorry. After 30 minutes take what you do have and do something appropriate for that raid force. Work on backflagging unless thats all you do anyway.
4. Dont be an **** bro. Call the frickin assist. you want an officer to administer 'didn't wait for assist' spankings then designate one! Dont punish the whole raid because of a couple of impatient raiders. Maybe if you didnt play silly games they wouldnt be so impatient. Sounds like all that waiting around has them chompin at the bit to kill bro.
Now to respond to fartknocker raid leader #1s reply to fartknocker raid leader #2. Grow some and quit being the step-and-fetch-it to raid leader #2. You did the person raising these issues a disservice and should be shamed. From the sounds of your guild there are a LOT of other raiders equally upset by these specific issues. I bet the person deguilded was speaking for a LOT of other raiders!
To label legitimate and sincerely raised issues as whines and whimpers. WOW. You are the most pathetic leaders Ive heard of. OK Im sure that all of this is a joke and Ive wasted a huge amount of time to respond but there are some good lessons here for how NOT to run a guild or raid.
Seriously if your a part of this gaggle get out. So, which fartknocker raid leader is Ereebos and which is Griffiud. Crystal Waters and Black Tower oughta be embarased!!!
Here is an idea for next raid, wait till fartknocker raidleader #2 engages mob and finally calls assist. Targer self and type /guildremove ENTER. Cast gate and ignore tells. Go post name of looking for guild board in guild lobby, wait for invite to new guild, and have fun playing game.
Sounds like a lack of communication.
Perhaps you don't have the ability to make it happen but there should be some kind of debrief after each raid for everyone to talk about this stuff before it piles up. It will only make you a better raid force. Do you have forums?
The Raid Leader might be a great stratigist but perhaps needs a PR person. Maybe you need to lighten up? Who knows, but these issues are all minor.
Perhaps you don't have the ability to make it happen but there should be some kind of debrief after each raid for everyone to talk about this stuff before it piles up. It will only make you a better raid force. Do you have forums?
The Raid Leader might be a great stratigist but perhaps needs a PR person. Maybe you need to lighten up? Who knows, but these issues are all minor.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Your guild is weak and u need to find a new one. Not all lower tier guilds are like this, only the really bad ones who will not last very long.
From what I see in your post, your guild knows very little about raiding or at least the raid leaders.
1)Sometimes in my guild this happens during deaths and u need to rebuff. Also, there are many channels in my guild when we raid such a tank, puller, healer, and shaman channel and commands are given to each group on what to do. So, just because it is not being discussed in /rs that does not mean they are looking stuff up on alla(though your guild might be). Strats are researched in my guild long before the raid starts.
2) This is always the leaderships fault. Every time. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Even baby tanks have to know how to tank mobs during raids, whether in be cornering, boxing, wall pinning, etc. How do they learn how to do it? The raid leaders teach them.
3) There are always people who will not be able to make on time if the guild is casual and there is no downsides to coming late. In my casual guild u cannot bid on loot or get dkp for an hour after you arrive if you come late. It works well for us.
4) Assist must always be called so people know when to attack the mob. Any tanks that does not call assist within a reasonable amount of time has serious issues and should step down for someone who knows what they are doing. How long does it really take for a tank to gain agro? A couple seconds. If it takes more than 10 seconds for a tank to gain agro either he sucks and should be replaced by a real tank or someone steals agro on the pull and they should be booted from a raid if they try to do that ever.
From what I see in your post, your guild knows very little about raiding or at least the raid leaders.
1)Sometimes in my guild this happens during deaths and u need to rebuff. Also, there are many channels in my guild when we raid such a tank, puller, healer, and shaman channel and commands are given to each group on what to do. So, just because it is not being discussed in /rs that does not mean they are looking stuff up on alla(though your guild might be). Strats are researched in my guild long before the raid starts.
2) This is always the leaderships fault. Every time. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Even baby tanks have to know how to tank mobs during raids, whether in be cornering, boxing, wall pinning, etc. How do they learn how to do it? The raid leaders teach them.
3) There are always people who will not be able to make on time if the guild is casual and there is no downsides to coming late. In my casual guild u cannot bid on loot or get dkp for an hour after you arrive if you come late. It works well for us.
4) Assist must always be called so people know when to attack the mob. Any tanks that does not call assist within a reasonable amount of time has serious issues and should step down for someone who knows what they are doing. How long does it really take for a tank to gain agro? A couple seconds. If it takes more than 10 seconds for a tank to gain agro either he sucks and should be replaced by a real tank or someone steals agro on the pull and they should be booted from a raid if they try to do that ever.
1 is almost always caused by 3 fix 3 and problem will go away.
2 Big issue for allot of lower level raid guilds I will spell out one of biggest secrets of EQ raiding that ive learned and that is that casters are almost always the ones ******** up push.
Melee will find it almost imposable to control push if casters are not trying to control push as well. Mobs move in direction casters are facing every three normal caster spells will equal about the same push as a pally are cleric stun. The direction of push can be controled with ease by casters by simply faceing the direction you want mob to be pushed while casting.
Go over these facts with casters and then show them it in practice by haveing all the casters face a certain direction durning a boss fight so they can see the effect there haveing. I have found once you make casters aware of the effect there haveing that most push problems go away.
3 need to cancel raids if you dont have enough 15 minutes after start if you let people get away with being late then they will always be late and problem will keep growing until people reach breaking point and leave guild over it.
4 two actions here one is to simply take no action until assist is called period and second after mob dies ask why assist wasnt called do this everytime until MA gets point that he needs to call assist if doing this are reminding MA to call assist is to much trouble for guild your in then you really need to find another guild.
2 Big issue for allot of lower level raid guilds I will spell out one of biggest secrets of EQ raiding that ive learned and that is that casters are almost always the ones ******** up push.
Melee will find it almost imposable to control push if casters are not trying to control push as well. Mobs move in direction casters are facing every three normal caster spells will equal about the same push as a pally are cleric stun. The direction of push can be controled with ease by casters by simply faceing the direction you want mob to be pushed while casting.
Go over these facts with casters and then show them it in practice by haveing all the casters face a certain direction durning a boss fight so they can see the effect there haveing. I have found once you make casters aware of the effect there haveing that most push problems go away.
3 need to cancel raids if you dont have enough 15 minutes after start if you let people get away with being late then they will always be late and problem will keep growing until people reach breaking point and leave guild over it.
4 two actions here one is to simply take no action until assist is called period and second after mob dies ask why assist wasnt called do this everytime until MA gets point that he needs to call assist if doing this are reminding MA to call assist is to much trouble for guild your in then you really need to find another guild.
2 posts
There are alot of posts with good advice about the problems the person removed brought up. I think anyone with a brain can figure out how to fix these things.
What shocks me is that more of you didnt address these two "leaders" and how they so shamfuly dismiss there members concerns!
How would YOU like to be in one of those guilds?
What shocks me is that more of you didnt address these two "leaders" and how they so shamfuly dismiss there members concerns!
How would YOU like to be in one of those guilds?
I wouldn't. I would just leave. Guild is already doomed by the sound of it. Some people just don't know how to lead, and some seem born to it.
1 post
More news from the front for the kiddies that care. Sources have identified the first poster of the message in question as Grifiud, Guild Loser (Leader) of Crystaline Waters on Tunare. Or as Jayneey calls him, Fartknocker #1.
So anywho, Fartknocker #1 is turning over the whip and brass speculum to one of his custom-shaped turds named Delpha. In all fairness we only call him a custom-shaped **** of Grifiud cuz that is where he comes from- -grifiuds butt. Yes Delpha gets the award "Most hated member of the guild who thinks they are the most loved". Its a riot to hear his members talk about him the way they do and then be so nice to him to his face. Theres more than one current officer that falls into that category. Delpha's shoot first and ask questions later and carefree attitude should quickly alienate the few members that dont already dislike him. He should singlehandedly take a pretty big chunk out of the guilds strength within a month or two. Long live the new King of Crystaline Waters! We will soon here this captain say, "We are not sinking. I'm taking her down!"
And for an update on Fartknocker #2 (Love it, Jayneey!) who we now know is Erebos, Guild Loser (Leader) of Black Tower on Tunare. This is other side of the "Coalition (TM)" mad up of CW and BT. He may be the only one alive to surpass Grifiud in pomposity.
So anywho, Fartknocker #2 threw a hissy fit the other night when someone didnt cast the right buff on him or some other typical nonsense BS crybaby reason only he can usually come up with. Ereboohoo calls off the raid and takes his enforcer off to greater adventures. Not to be denied the members rise up and successfuly take down MB for their flags without him. 100,000p says he punched a hole in the wall at the mere thought of the coalition (tm) members having the idea that they could do something WITHOUT him at the helm! According to his replies above and other stuff he has posted in their forums the members of both guilds are morons that couldnt relieve themselves properly without his one-on-one guidance. I know that to not be the case. There are some very capable people in both guilds. BT especially.
So anywho, the coalition (tm) will continue to serve as the backflag syndicate of Tunare. What do other guilds do when someone applies to them that needs flags? Go to CW or BT young man/woman/tranny and get those flags. THEN come back to us. And thats what they do. The worst part is that many join them expecting to progress beyond just those elemental flags. The possibility of that happening is slim. The possibility of enough people being able to stomach the fartknocker tandem long enough to see Time is even slimmer!!!
Where most guilds would analyse the situation every time someone valuable leaves these fartknockers vilify them. People leaving in droves and it is always some shortcoming of the people leaving? Hmmmmmmmmm. Sadly they are so against a little self evaluation that they are stuck in a rut. As long as they are satisfied with filling this need then so be it. They should at least come clean with their members that this is all they aspire to achieve. Clearly some of the leadership believes this should happen. Lifted from deep within the officers forum is the new coalition (tm) emblem to be carried as the banner on their websites and for member use in signatures.
Back Flag "R" US
Like I said, all of the other guilds of Tunare thanks you for your valuable service but you need to come clean with your members. They are good people.
So anywho, Fartknocker #1 is turning over the whip and brass speculum to one of his custom-shaped turds named Delpha. In all fairness we only call him a custom-shaped **** of Grifiud cuz that is where he comes from- -grifiuds butt. Yes Delpha gets the award "Most hated member of the guild who thinks they are the most loved". Its a riot to hear his members talk about him the way they do and then be so nice to him to his face. Theres more than one current officer that falls into that category. Delpha's shoot first and ask questions later and carefree attitude should quickly alienate the few members that dont already dislike him. He should singlehandedly take a pretty big chunk out of the guilds strength within a month or two. Long live the new King of Crystaline Waters! We will soon here this captain say, "We are not sinking. I'm taking her down!"
And for an update on Fartknocker #2 (Love it, Jayneey!) who we now know is Erebos, Guild Loser (Leader) of Black Tower on Tunare. This is other side of the "Coalition (TM)" mad up of CW and BT. He may be the only one alive to surpass Grifiud in pomposity.
So anywho, Fartknocker #2 threw a hissy fit the other night when someone didnt cast the right buff on him or some other typical nonsense BS crybaby reason only he can usually come up with. Ereboohoo calls off the raid and takes his enforcer off to greater adventures. Not to be denied the members rise up and successfuly take down MB for their flags without him. 100,000p says he punched a hole in the wall at the mere thought of the coalition (tm) members having the idea that they could do something WITHOUT him at the helm! According to his replies above and other stuff he has posted in their forums the members of both guilds are morons that couldnt relieve themselves properly without his one-on-one guidance. I know that to not be the case. There are some very capable people in both guilds. BT especially.
So anywho, the coalition (tm) will continue to serve as the backflag syndicate of Tunare. What do other guilds do when someone applies to them that needs flags? Go to CW or BT young man/woman/tranny and get those flags. THEN come back to us. And thats what they do. The worst part is that many join them expecting to progress beyond just those elemental flags. The possibility of that happening is slim. The possibility of enough people being able to stomach the fartknocker tandem long enough to see Time is even slimmer!!!
Where most guilds would analyse the situation every time someone valuable leaves these fartknockers vilify them. People leaving in droves and it is always some shortcoming of the people leaving? Hmmmmmmmmm. Sadly they are so against a little self evaluation that they are stuck in a rut. As long as they are satisfied with filling this need then so be it. They should at least come clean with their members that this is all they aspire to achieve. Clearly some of the leadership believes this should happen. Lifted from deep within the officers forum is the new coalition (tm) emblem to be carried as the banner on their websites and for member use in signatures.
Back Flag "R" US
Like I said, all of the other guilds of Tunare thanks you for your valuable service but you need to come clean with your members. They are good people.
The only thing worse than guild drama, is those who create socks on public message boards advertising their guild drama.
Some people are like slinkies, they aren't really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Kakar the Vile wrote:
The only thing worse than guild drama, is those who create socks on public message boards advertising their guild drama.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Hehe. Well, I guess it all depends on your point of view doesn't it.
Let me tell you about the starter of this thread. He was an officer when I joined the guild, and he seemed nice enough. But, I got to know him, and he ended up being THE least liked officer ever in the guild. He ended up stepping down, because he knew that not a soul in the guild liked him. Once he did step down, he CONSTANTLY sparred with the officers, when he finaly left, he joined a higher guild that is well respected on the server. I so wanted to sink his app, but I know if I did, we would be stuck with him.
The person who started this thread is easy to pick out. His good friend is the one who got guildremoved, for basically calling the guild leader names to his face. The post where he aired his concerns was a thread I started to tell the younger raiders they were doing a fantastic job. The guildremoved person then turned the thread into this negative ugly thread, which ended with his removal for his attitude.
The reason I know who posted this, is quite simple:
Everything he posted, The raid leaders concerns? These were posted in an Officers Only area, and only about 10 of us have access to this area, including Xaviax. Xaviax was the ONLY officer who was sympathetic to the person who was guildremoved. He is one of 2 officers who had access who have left the guild, and the other officer is from the other guild. And, the best evidence here? He has been caught, and has confessed to, reading things he should not be reading, in places he has NO business being, AND THEN LEAKING THESE THINGS TO THE PUBLIC OF THE GUILD.
You know who you are, and you now know I know who you are. You are in for a world of hurt, kiss your new guild goodbye, because after the trouble you have caused, I will not rest until you realize that you are no longer welcome on Tunare.
Notice I sign my real name to my posts, you parasite
Hiya
Edited, Mon Nov 28 22:51:27 2005 by sullyd
Let me tell you about the starter of this thread. He was an officer when I joined the guild, and he seemed nice enough. But, I got to know him, and he ended up being THE least liked officer ever in the guild. He ended up stepping down, because he knew that not a soul in the guild liked him. Once he did step down, he CONSTANTLY sparred with the officers, when he finaly left, he joined a higher guild that is well respected on the server. I so wanted to sink his app, but I know if I did, we would be stuck with him.
The person who started this thread is easy to pick out. His good friend is the one who got guildremoved, for basically calling the guild leader names to his face. The post where he aired his concerns was a thread I started to tell the younger raiders they were doing a fantastic job. The guildremoved person then turned the thread into this negative ugly thread, which ended with his removal for his attitude.
The reason I know who posted this, is quite simple:
Everything he posted, The raid leaders concerns? These were posted in an Officers Only area, and only about 10 of us have access to this area, including Xaviax. Xaviax was the ONLY officer who was sympathetic to the person who was guildremoved. He is one of 2 officers who had access who have left the guild, and the other officer is from the other guild. And, the best evidence here? He has been caught, and has confessed to, reading things he should not be reading, in places he has NO business being, AND THEN LEAKING THESE THINGS TO THE PUBLIC OF THE GUILD.
You know who you are, and you now know I know who you are. You are in for a world of hurt, kiss your new guild goodbye, because after the trouble you have caused, I will not rest until you realize that you are no longer welcome on Tunare.
Notice I sign my real name to my posts, you parasite
Hiya
Edited, Mon Nov 28 22:51:27 2005 by sullyd
13 posts
I would like to thank those that actually responded to the comments with idea's on how to make things work better.
For those that left BT or CW, well you left (or got kicked out) for varied reasons and I won't dog you out for it, although for some reason you continue to make rude comments and troll your old guild boards (miss us?).
You left or got kicked out, so get over it. If you are happy with your new guild, good for you. Black Tower has been around since beta and will continue to be around. Would I love to go to Time yes, but I have invested a lot of time with my guildies. I also enjoy backflagging and having fun. Do we do backflagging yes, am I sick of it yes, but there is nothing more enjoyable to me than flagging folks for higher zones.
Does that make me a bad BT officer, well I hope not. For those that posted here, the one's that couldn't raid because their hubby wouldn't let them or those that couldn't raid for god only knows what reason, I don't feel that you are justified in your negativity towards Erebos. Since, he busted his *** to get you EP flagged. Carry on with your new guilds and we shall see which guild lasts the longest.
As for the comments posted, they were posted in an officer only area, to hopefully be discussed and see how we could address those issues. Nice to see them reposted here, out of context and with out all the additional information and comments.
Oh and for the prior BT officer who left, thanks for twisting that knife a little harder :)>.
Again thanks for those that had positive thoughts or constructive criticisms. Those that jumped to the conclusion that one or both of our guilds are bad, well that's people with opinions for you. As for the guy getting kicked out because of comments he made, I don't know the details, since that wasn't a BT member and again taken out of context.
Take care all and see you in game, I know Black Tower will be there.
Kinmeri Resulots
Lvl 70 Cleric
Proud Officer of Black Tower
9th Guild on Tunare Server
Edited, Mon Nov 28 23:49:55 2005 by Kinmeri
Edited, Mon Nov 28 23:42:31 2005 by Kinmeri
For those that left BT or CW, well you left (or got kicked out) for varied reasons and I won't dog you out for it, although for some reason you continue to make rude comments and troll your old guild boards (miss us?).
You left or got kicked out, so get over it. If you are happy with your new guild, good for you. Black Tower has been around since beta and will continue to be around. Would I love to go to Time yes, but I have invested a lot of time with my guildies. I also enjoy backflagging and having fun. Do we do backflagging yes, am I sick of it yes, but there is nothing more enjoyable to me than flagging folks for higher zones.
Does that make me a bad BT officer, well I hope not. For those that posted here, the one's that couldn't raid because their hubby wouldn't let them or those that couldn't raid for god only knows what reason, I don't feel that you are justified in your negativity towards Erebos. Since, he busted his *** to get you EP flagged. Carry on with your new guilds and we shall see which guild lasts the longest.
As for the comments posted, they were posted in an officer only area, to hopefully be discussed and see how we could address those issues. Nice to see them reposted here, out of context and with out all the additional information and comments.
Oh and for the prior BT officer who left, thanks for twisting that knife a little harder :)>.
Again thanks for those that had positive thoughts or constructive criticisms. Those that jumped to the conclusion that one or both of our guilds are bad, well that's people with opinions for you. As for the guy getting kicked out because of comments he made, I don't know the details, since that wasn't a BT member and again taken out of context.
Take care all and see you in game, I know Black Tower will be there.
Kinmeri Resulots
Lvl 70 Cleric
Proud Officer of Black Tower
9th Guild on Tunare Server
Edited, Mon Nov 28 23:49:55 2005 by Kinmeri
Edited, Mon Nov 28 23:42:31 2005 by Kinmeri
I went through this thread again after posting a long reply. I have deleted everything and placing this instead. Internal guild problems and issues discussed on a guild's website should stay private to that guild. The rest of the EQ gaming world has no business poking it's nose in ANY guild's business.
To the original poster of this thread: If you had ever took on the job of raid leader, you would know that there is much more to leading a raid than point a direction and saying charge. Your posting here of a situation happening within your previous guild was inapppropriate and a poor attempt at back-stabbing that guild. Your dissatifaction with that guild should have been between you and the guild leader.
To the two guilds mention within this thread: Good luck with all future endeavors. Your leaders already know the secret to success, communication. Consider yourselfs lucky to have dissenters gone and start working on building a stronger guild.
Edited, Tue Nov 29 01:42:31 2005 by gwinrayven
To the original poster of this thread: If you had ever took on the job of raid leader, you would know that there is much more to leading a raid than point a direction and saying charge. Your posting here of a situation happening within your previous guild was inapppropriate and a poor attempt at back-stabbing that guild. Your dissatifaction with that guild should have been between you and the guild leader.
To the two guilds mention within this thread: Good luck with all future endeavors. Your leaders already know the secret to success, communication. Consider yourselfs lucky to have dissenters gone and start working on building a stronger guild.
Edited, Tue Nov 29 01:42:31 2005 by gwinrayven
Scholar
24 posts
Thank you gwinrayven.
This is Normy Truhart of the Tunare server. I have been a member of CW for some time now, and I just wanted to make mention that the same person that started this topic already took a huge chunk of messages from member boards and officer boards, placed them out of context, and tried to break up the coalition we have with BT just yesterday. This is one of many reasons I am happy to see you gone. Something so childish is something I can do without.
I play this game to have fun, I suggest you do the same. I have enough drama in my real life that I play this game to get away from for a while and have a good time. I have my suspicions on who might be the person responsible, but I won't name names here. The only reason I won't is because I'm not like you. If I'm wrong, then I would be bring drama and havoc on an innocent person, and I think about how my actions could affect others before acting.
And to others that might care, if this is who I think it is, he was not removed for "not agreeing with the Guild or raid leader." Thats a load of crap. He was removed because of other huge drama issues like this. That line is supposed to get sympathy and make us look like the big bad guys that just picked on poor shmuck_01.
This is Normy Truhart of the Tunare server. I have been a member of CW for some time now, and I just wanted to make mention that the same person that started this topic already took a huge chunk of messages from member boards and officer boards, placed them out of context, and tried to break up the coalition we have with BT just yesterday. This is one of many reasons I am happy to see you gone. Something so childish is something I can do without.
I play this game to have fun, I suggest you do the same. I have enough drama in my real life that I play this game to get away from for a while and have a good time. I have my suspicions on who might be the person responsible, but I won't name names here. The only reason I won't is because I'm not like you. If I'm wrong, then I would be bring drama and havoc on an innocent person, and I think about how my actions could affect others before acting.
And to others that might care, if this is who I think it is, he was not removed for "not agreeing with the Guild or raid leader." Thats a load of crap. He was removed because of other huge drama issues like this. That line is supposed to get sympathy and make us look like the big bad guys that just picked on poor shmuck_01.
You know what's worse than guild drama?
Publicly sharing that drama in a public gaming forum. This goes to both the OP and the guild officer/leaders who have responded. The problem should be discussed with those involved and not with everyone pointing fingers and arguing with each other in public.
You want to keep honor and trust in your guilds. I suggest you let this thread die.
Publicly sharing that drama in a public gaming forum. This goes to both the OP and the guild officer/leaders who have responded. The problem should be discussed with those involved and not with everyone pointing fingers and arguing with each other in public.
You want to keep honor and trust in your guilds. I suggest you let this thread die.
Aye, it is, and we are moving on. The starter of this thread had alts in my guild which have been guildremoved. His access to the boards have been restricted.
And we are taking on the Rathe Council next, wish us luck!
And we are taking on the Rathe Council next, wish us luck!
Good luck!
:)
The RC is a fun encounter. I liked it, especially as a chanter.
:)
The RC is a fun encounter. I liked it, especially as a chanter.
1 post
This post is solely in response to the person who posted as "Fanarrath". In the future, if you feel the necessity to impersonate me, please be so wise as to atleast spell my name right. Additionally, you can discontinue any posts using my name in the future as things that I have said. I am perfectly capable of talking for myself thank you very much. Don't publicly bash on a good guild with good people merely bc you have issues of your own. And for goodness sake, remember the number one rule. THIS IS ONLY A GAME!!! Go and find your own life and stop trying to play in mine.
THE REAL
Fanarreth Mystichant Generalstore
Lvl 70 Enchanter
Proud former BT member/officer
Tunare Server-
Edited, Thu Dec 1 18:53:39 2005 by Fanarreth
THE REAL
Fanarreth Mystichant Generalstore
Lvl 70 Enchanter
Proud former BT member/officer
Tunare Server-
Edited, Thu Dec 1 18:53:39 2005 by Fanarreth
just can't let it die, huh?
Letting this die would be a waste of good entertainment.
Fanarrath and Fanarreth both have exactly 1 post. I sense schizophrenia. Explain yourself (yourselves).
Fanarrath and Fanarreth both have exactly 1 post. I sense schizophrenia. Explain yourself (yourselves).
After 16 years, I'm not listing every friggin character.
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