Hiiii Everyone
I currently have a 48 cleric on the Stromm server, and im sick of doing the healing lol. Im gona make a tank class; Sk, Pally, or War, but i have no idea how to tank. I want to make a Pally, and keep a little of the clericness in me, but i want to make a War and be a full out tank. Can someone tell me the Pros and Cons for a Pally, and a Warrior, and can you tell me the main job of being a tank. As in Taunting, getting aggro ect. Also, whats better? 1hs w/ a shied, or 2hs or Duel Wield w/ a War.
Thank You!!!!
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OK here goes...
As far as the class differences it is the standard eq matrix. Warrior has better mitigation and dps while sk/ pally have utilities.
Agro: Warrior agro is mostly derived from taunt and weapons with agro procs. Most warriors dont use a shield because it drasticaly reduces their ability to hold agro. Sk/Pally both have excellent agro spells. The pally gets stun and the sk hets the terror line jolt spell. Both are huge agro and make holding agro easy. In fact the level 67 sk agro spell is only like 50 mana:).
Main job: On all 3 classes it is the same. All tanks in EQ are a defnesive class. Which means in eq's eyes your job is to take a beating nothing more. Warriors have the best mitigation and the best hp's.
BEtter weapons. The dps goes like this in order of lowest to highest. Sk/pally with 1hwep and shield, then warrior duel wielding, then any using the 2h wep(once you get some upperend raidgear dual wield can out dps 2h weps but that is a ways down the line). Remember though that in a group your job is to take a beating so if you make a pally or sk most of the time you will be using the shield.
Pros and Cons. Well it is really quite simple. The warrior has the mitigation the others have the utilities. If you plan in raiding then I would make a warrior as they always have something to do. IF you dont plan on raiding I would make the pally/sk. The sk in particular is fun because of extremely useful things like invis vs undead and regular, Feign Death, levitation, fear etc etc.
To me the sk is the better choice for just having fun but you should make the one that you enjoy the most. If these classes had soloability I would make a pally and be in heaven.
WARNING!!!. If you are a casual player remember that tanks are an extremely challenging class. They are extremely gear and aa dependant. You will find that the people you are leveling with will move past you as you dont have the gear / aa to tank certain zones but they can dps in them. You will also have to stop leveling 3 or 4 times to grind aa's while your friends can keep leveling. LAst but not least if you are a non raiding player it is very difficult to progress beyond being a WoS tank to MPG and more challenging zones even with full sets of DON gear.
Good luck and if you have any more questions dont hesitate to ask.
Edited, Thu Dec 8 00:54:35 2005 by dracoboars
As far as the class differences it is the standard eq matrix. Warrior has better mitigation and dps while sk/ pally have utilities.
Agro: Warrior agro is mostly derived from taunt and weapons with agro procs. Most warriors dont use a shield because it drasticaly reduces their ability to hold agro. Sk/Pally both have excellent agro spells. The pally gets stun and the sk hets the terror line jolt spell. Both are huge agro and make holding agro easy. In fact the level 67 sk agro spell is only like 50 mana:).
Main job: On all 3 classes it is the same. All tanks in EQ are a defnesive class. Which means in eq's eyes your job is to take a beating nothing more. Warriors have the best mitigation and the best hp's.
BEtter weapons. The dps goes like this in order of lowest to highest. Sk/pally with 1hwep and shield, then warrior duel wielding, then any using the 2h wep(once you get some upperend raidgear dual wield can out dps 2h weps but that is a ways down the line). Remember though that in a group your job is to take a beating so if you make a pally or sk most of the time you will be using the shield.
Pros and Cons. Well it is really quite simple. The warrior has the mitigation the others have the utilities. If you plan in raiding then I would make a warrior as they always have something to do. IF you dont plan on raiding I would make the pally/sk. The sk in particular is fun because of extremely useful things like invis vs undead and regular, Feign Death, levitation, fear etc etc.
To me the sk is the better choice for just having fun but you should make the one that you enjoy the most. If these classes had soloability I would make a pally and be in heaven.
WARNING!!!. If you are a casual player remember that tanks are an extremely challenging class. They are extremely gear and aa dependant. You will find that the people you are leveling with will move past you as you dont have the gear / aa to tank certain zones but they can dps in them. You will also have to stop leveling 3 or 4 times to grind aa's while your friends can keep leveling. LAst but not least if you are a non raiding player it is very difficult to progress beyond being a WoS tank to MPG and more challenging zones even with full sets of DON gear.
Good luck and if you have any more questions dont hesitate to ask.
Edited, Thu Dec 8 00:54:35 2005 by dracoboars
Well if you want to play a pal play a pal, if you want to paly a war play a war. Pick which one you want to play.
As for being a tank, make sure you have agro is one of the main things you need to do. You need to take as much of the damage (preferably all the damage) as you can. You always want to call your pulls if your pulling to let the group know whats coming, and let people know that you are assisting. It just makes for an easier group, IMO.
As for weapon skills keep all of them up as best you can. I've been kicking myself for not keeping up with all my skills. Cause when you get higher levels and get nice weapons later, you'll be wishing that you worked on all of them.
As for being a tank, make sure you have agro is one of the main things you need to do. You need to take as much of the damage (preferably all the damage) as you can. You always want to call your pulls if your pulling to let the group know whats coming, and let people know that you are assisting. It just makes for an easier group, IMO.
As for weapon skills keep all of them up as best you can. I've been kicking myself for not keeping up with all my skills. Cause when you get higher levels and get nice weapons later, you'll be wishing that you worked on all of them.
Very nice write-up, Draco. I just started a SK and now you make me glad I did!
Rate up fer joo!
Rate up fer joo!
Scholar
24 posts
Well based on what you all said, i think im going to make a SK because i like the fear spells, and also they can play tank. Im gona start off the first 10 lvls levelin up my 1hs and 2hs skills. i dont no if thats a great idea or not, but i think it might work out fun :-). Thanx again for all the help!!
sks are great at soloing pluss its easy to get twink weapons for them or at least it was.. just park one in velks and hope someones doingwell we called it lower dogs...and i forget the named that drops it,
anyway the sk sword used to drop more becuase its not as far in.Theres a nice 2h that drops in maidens that useually rots.
also the shroom house near maidens is great exp for a lightly twinked sk at that lvl i think 27 or 30 to 35?
anyway the sk sword used to drop more becuase its not as far in.Theres a nice 2h that drops in maidens that useually rots.
also the shroom house near maidens is great exp for a lightly twinked sk at that lvl i think 27 or 30 to 35?
Quote:
Well based on what you all said, i think im going to make a SK because i like the fear spells, and also they can play tank. Im gona start off the first 10 lvls levelin up my 1hs and 2hs skills. i dont no if thats a great idea or not, but i think it might work out fun :-). Thanx again for all the help!!
.. you definately want to stay on top of all your weapon skills. Buy cheap weapons that have quick delays for skilling up the amount of damage they do isnt really an issue when trying to skill up. Also things go fast in the early levels so dont get too concerned if you level faster then you skill up. When looking for skillup weapons for low levels u want to find something equal to or better then like 6dmg / 22 delay for 1h weps. The best cheap 2hs skillup wep is like the ornate rune blade. It is like 19/30. Remember you have a cap on the damage you can output with weapons til you reach level 20.
Quote:
If you plan in raiding then I would make a warrior as they always have something to do. IF you dont plan on raiding I would make the pally/sk. The sk in particular is fun because of extremely useful things like invis vs undead and regular, Feign Death, levitation, fear etc etc.
I'd disagree with this a bit. Paladins have plenty to do in raids. They're often a key part of the CC team. Off-tanking, spot healing, and group heals are clutch in AoE fights.
Some people are like slinkies, they aren't really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Damn fine post.
I especially like your disclaimer:
To add to the info, (or hearsay, at least) I've heard that in terms of DPS, the classes go, from highest to lowest: SK (through use of spells and pet), WAR, PAL. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
I personally love the pally for it's abillity to solo, albeit slowly, by use of stun mitigation, self HoT, and root & heal. At low levels, they are excellent pullers up to about level 55 (because of Paci) and they can easily main heal for a group of hybrids at lower level.
Congrats on your new SK - wish I knew more about them. Maybe I'll make one on Povar. (I'm out of room for toons on Cazic)
Edited, Thu Dec 8 00:48:54 2005 by BellamDreamguard
I especially like your disclaimer:
dracoboars wrote:
WARNING!!!. If you are a casual player remember that tanks are an extremely challenging class. They are ectremely gear and aa dependant. You will find that the people you are leveling with will move past you as you dont have the gear aa to tank certain zones but they can dps in them. You will also have to stop leveling 3 or 4 times to grind aa's while your friends can keep leveling. LAst but not least if you are a non raiding player it is very difficult to progress being a WoS tank to MPG and more challenging zones even with full sets of DON gear.
To add to the info, (or hearsay, at least) I've heard that in terms of DPS, the classes go, from highest to lowest: SK (through use of spells and pet), WAR, PAL. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
I personally love the pally for it's abillity to solo, albeit slowly, by use of stun mitigation, self HoT, and root & heal. At low levels, they are excellent pullers up to about level 55 (because of Paci) and they can easily main heal for a group of hybrids at lower level.
Congrats on your new SK - wish I knew more about them. Maybe I'll make one on Povar. (I'm out of room for toons on Cazic)
Edited, Thu Dec 8 00:48:54 2005 by BellamDreamguard
Maurna <The Dark Arrow Legion>
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
Quote:
I've heard that in terms of DPS, the classes go, from highest to lowest: SK (through use of spells and pet), WAR, PAL
..... kind of. I was speaking in generalities but yes a sk that burns mana can pass a warrior for dps. Remember though the sk pet is useless below like level 49. Also a pally that chain stuns can technically have better mitigation then the warrior but sooner or later much like the sk the mana goes dry.
And one more thing about melee classes, that I learned from mm's (I have no melee alts). I don't know how the player's wrists hold up, constant use of hot keys and so on. Before mm's were put on a timer, I could melee maybe 3 missions before my wrists and hands started to hurt. I admired good tanks, but had no idea how hard they worked.
Quote:
I admired good tanks, but had no idea how hard they worked.
Thank you!
I hate when people say such-and-such class is easy. None of the classes are just plain easy. They all take their own skill and way of playing. All the classes take skill and knowledge to play them well.
Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it just bothers me when people say that.
Carry on.I have played all 3 classes, War, SK, and Pally.
If you roll a warrior, make friends with a shaman, cleric, or druid REAL quick. :-)
IMHO, Pallies are not as self-sufficient as SK's are, and are way more group orientated than an SK is. Please dont flame, I know that tank classes in general are not designed to be soloers, and I know that the Pally vs SK debate has been around since SoE turned on the servers, but let me lay down a few notes:
Pallys get Lay On Hands, SK's get Feign Death.
Pallys are secondary healers, SK's deal damage.
Pally has to stop to heal, then resume attacking.
SK heals while harming opponent.
Pally gets a root which, inevitably, becomes next to useless.
SK gets snares (Dooming Darkness).
Pally gets a stun, SK gets Terror line.
Pally gets flash of light, SK gets spears.
Pally can self buff, SK rips from opposition.
SK gets a pet....Pally..well...not so much.
If you want to be the Knight in shining armor, save the maidens, and rescue the kingdom, go with a Paladin. Your experience while playing a cleric will make you that much more effective.
If you want to maim, harm, wound, and destroy all in your path, spreading disease and evil across the land, while commanding a minion of the dead, roll an SK.
Hi, my name is Thoryndar, and I like playing tanks.
If you roll a warrior, make friends with a shaman, cleric, or druid REAL quick. :-)
IMHO, Pallies are not as self-sufficient as SK's are, and are way more group orientated than an SK is. Please dont flame, I know that tank classes in general are not designed to be soloers, and I know that the Pally vs SK debate has been around since SoE turned on the servers, but let me lay down a few notes:
Pallys get Lay On Hands, SK's get Feign Death.
Pallys are secondary healers, SK's deal damage.
Pally has to stop to heal, then resume attacking.
SK heals while harming opponent.
Pally gets a root which, inevitably, becomes next to useless.
SK gets snares (Dooming Darkness).
Pally gets a stun, SK gets Terror line.
Pally gets flash of light, SK gets spears.
Pally can self buff, SK rips from opposition.
SK gets a pet....Pally..well...not so much.
If you want to be the Knight in shining armor, save the maidens, and rescue the kingdom, go with a Paladin. Your experience while playing a cleric will make you that much more effective.
If you want to maim, harm, wound, and destroy all in your path, spreading disease and evil across the land, while commanding a minion of the dead, roll an SK.
Hi, my name is Thoryndar, and I like playing tanks.
I'm noticing that mediocre geared pally's and sk's have a bit of an advntage over warriors now a days. It seems that with out anger augs and such that warriors are having a monster hard time keeping agro. A pally can keep agro much easier but the use of stuns and taunt the same as teh Sk line of spells. I'd say that also there are some really good SK only and pally only items that can be found for next to nothing since only those particular classes can use them. A good tank needs to pay attention too how the puller is working as well. MOnks usually ten to pull adds then FD and wait for the breakup and have the tank tag the target gennerally. Part of the tanks job is keeping the group alive almost as much as it is the clerics. If tank is the only one getting hit then the "healer" (to allow you druids and shammy's you fair rights)can focus on targetting only you and not have to spend time worring about everyone else.
Scholar
24 posts
Okay, 2 Last Questiosn before i make my guy.
1) Whats a good Race? i want good Hp's so im thinking Ogre, but i want Int also.
2) When im buying equipment, should i look for the Sta stat or Str? or should i even them out?
Thanx!!
1) Whats a good Race? i want good Hp's so im thinking Ogre, but i want Int also.
2) When im buying equipment, should i look for the Sta stat or Str? or should i even them out?
Thanx!!
HP is king. INT is easy to get with gear.
Go for HP and STA items.
Go for HP and STA items.
You forgot Harm touch and leech curse at higher lvls, Personally Trolls rock da house ! they have higher base hp i think and regen at same rate as iskar... go stamina or int maybe half and half maxed,or just stamina cause at high end i imagine int is easy to get.That sword that drops in velks is a very good twink sword as its dmg is close to its dly but there might be better ones that rot elsewhere.
Iskars have worse faction problems but are more agile swim better and intelligent i think but not sure i only played one as a monk.Iskars also cant wear plate i think,
Iskars also have a nicer Noobie area.
Iskars have worse faction problems but are more agile swim better and intelligent i think but not sure i only played one as a monk.Iskars also cant wear plate i think,
Iskars also have a nicer Noobie area.
Scholar
24 posts
Do you have the name of the sword? or what drops it? also is it No Drop?
thnx
thnx
all this SK talk makes me think about rolling one up....
Bah.
But now I have to.
/duel Thoryndar
/duel Thoryndar
/duel Thoryndar
You have too many alts. I never get to group with you anymore.
Okay, I'll admit, from what you've said, it sounds like SK's have some distinct advantages, but I think you oversold them a bit.
Let's compare apples to apples here. You slanted your whole post to make SK's sound better. I think for these comparisons, we should take abillities that are a little more on par with each other.
Pally -> Lay on Hands
SK -> Harm Touch
Advantage: Pally
Comment: LoH is ridiculously usefull. It's like a free "do-over" every 90 minutes.
Pally -> Divine Aura
SK -> Feign Death
Advantage: SK
Comment: I'd kill for either FD or Gate. I'd trade DA for either one. Can't wait till I get Origin.
Pally -> Focus: 3/4 Tank 1/4 Healer
SK -> Focus: 3/4 Tank 1/4 DPS
Advantage: Tie
Comment: SK's and pallies are pretty balanced. SK slightly better for general solo play, but Pally is EXTREMELY usefull in group settings, and a Pally can be easily, if slowly, soloed to the early 50's by carefull choice of hunting grounds.
Pally -> HoT tanking / Root & Heal tanking
SK -> Tap tanking
Advantage: SK - barely.
Comment: Tap tanking is mana intensive - HoTs aren't. While you're casting that tap, my HoT is healing me while I swing. (Okay, HoTs aren't a full line for the pally, but they ought to be, dammit!) SK still gets the win, because of time - Pally soloing (as far as standing toe to toe with a mob) is not hard, it's time consuming. Our lack of DPS makes soloing really slow.
Pally -> Root
SK -> Snare
Advantage: Tie
Comment: SK's get snares like we get Rezes. That is to say, way later than their base class. I'll take my "useless" root anyday. What would a pally do with a snare anyway? We don't have DoTs to make the worth anything to us. Root at least allows us some sort of CC.
Pally -> Paci
SK -> Fear
Advantage: SK
Comment: Yeah, SK wins in this department. Hell, not only wins, beats the crap outta pally. Paci is great in groups, and even for getting from point to point, but SK's get Inviso for that reason. SKs just beat us up in this department, unless we're in a group. (Although paci helps make up for the lack of FD) The fact that SK fear goes all the way up to lvl 65 mobs, makes me want better paci spells.
Pally -> Self Buffs
SK -> Theft Buffs
Advantage: Pally
Comment: I could be totally wrong, but being able to be fully buffed *before* engaging a mob is really appealing. Plus, we get more and better buffs.
Pally -> Resurrection
SK -> Spears
Advantage: SK
Comment: As awesome as Rez is, I think I'd give it up for some decent DPS. Oh well. Rez rocks but DPS is better.
Pally -> ??? We get to be non-KoS in most cities ???
SK -> Pet
Advantage: SK
Comment: Okay, I'm out. Got nothin on the pally end that even comes close to having a little buddy. So give us a squire or something, lol, or better yet - give us gate to make up for it.
If you want to solo... Don't make a tank!
If you want to solo and melee... Play a Beastlord.
If you want to play a tank... and are stubborn enough to try to solo... you'd be better off with an SK than a Pally.
But if you were that stubborn, why not just follow that stubborness all the way to it's obvious conclusion. Just play a pally and get it over with.
Okay Thor, I've donned my ring of flame resistance, let me have it.
(Hopefully we can get a group in this weekend.)
So in the course of making this post, I learned that SKs are MUCH better soloers.
Hi, I'm Bellam, and I'm shamelessly biased towards Paladins.
Play one, won't you?
They really need to get the expressways cleared. I want to go home.[sm]
[sm]Edited, Thu Dec 8 23:46:49 2005 by BellamDreamguard
Thoryndar wrote:
Please dont flame,
But now I have to.
/duel Thoryndar
/duel Thoryndar
/duel Thoryndar
You have too many alts. I never get to group with you anymore.
Okay, I'll admit, from what you've said, it sounds like SK's have some distinct advantages, but I think you oversold them a bit.
Thoryndar wrote:
Pallys get Lay On Hands, SK's get Feign Death.
Let's compare apples to apples here. You slanted your whole post to make SK's sound better. I think for these comparisons, we should take abillities that are a little more on par with each other.
Pally -> Lay on Hands
SK -> Harm Touch
Advantage: Pally
Comment: LoH is ridiculously usefull. It's like a free "do-over" every 90 minutes.
Pally -> Divine Aura
SK -> Feign Death
Advantage: SK
Comment: I'd kill for either FD or Gate. I'd trade DA for either one. Can't wait till I get Origin.
Pally -> Focus: 3/4 Tank 1/4 Healer
SK -> Focus: 3/4 Tank 1/4 DPS
Advantage: Tie
Comment: SK's and pallies are pretty balanced. SK slightly better for general solo play, but Pally is EXTREMELY usefull in group settings, and a Pally can be easily, if slowly, soloed to the early 50's by carefull choice of hunting grounds.
Pally -> HoT tanking / Root & Heal tanking
SK -> Tap tanking
Advantage: SK - barely.
Comment: Tap tanking is mana intensive - HoTs aren't. While you're casting that tap, my HoT is healing me while I swing. (Okay, HoTs aren't a full line for the pally, but they ought to be, dammit!) SK still gets the win, because of time - Pally soloing (as far as standing toe to toe with a mob) is not hard, it's time consuming. Our lack of DPS makes soloing really slow.
Pally -> Root
SK -> Snare
Advantage: Tie
Comment: SK's get snares like we get Rezes. That is to say, way later than their base class. I'll take my "useless" root anyday. What would a pally do with a snare anyway? We don't have DoTs to make the worth anything to us. Root at least allows us some sort of CC.
Pally -> Paci
SK -> Fear
Advantage: SK
Comment: Yeah, SK wins in this department. Hell, not only wins, beats the crap outta pally. Paci is great in groups, and even for getting from point to point, but SK's get Inviso for that reason. SKs just beat us up in this department, unless we're in a group. (Although paci helps make up for the lack of FD) The fact that SK fear goes all the way up to lvl 65 mobs, makes me want better paci spells.
Pally -> Self Buffs
SK -> Theft Buffs
Advantage: Pally
Comment: I could be totally wrong, but being able to be fully buffed *before* engaging a mob is really appealing. Plus, we get more and better buffs.
Pally -> Resurrection
SK -> Spears
Advantage: SK
Comment: As awesome as Rez is, I think I'd give it up for some decent DPS. Oh well. Rez rocks but DPS is better.
Pally -> ??? We get to be non-KoS in most cities ???
SK -> Pet
Advantage: SK
Comment: Okay, I'm out. Got nothin on the pally end that even comes close to having a little buddy. So give us a squire or something, lol, or better yet - give us gate to make up for it.
If you want to solo... Don't make a tank!
If you want to solo and melee... Play a Beastlord.
If you want to play a tank... and are stubborn enough to try to solo... you'd be better off with an SK than a Pally.
But if you were that stubborn, why not just follow that stubborness all the way to it's obvious conclusion. Just play a pally and get it over with.
Okay Thor, I've donned my ring of flame resistance, let me have it.
(Hopefully we can get a group in this weekend.)
So in the course of making this post, I learned that SKs are MUCH better soloers.
Hi, I'm Bellam, and I'm shamelessly biased towards Paladins.
Play one, won't you?
They really need to get the expressways cleared. I want to go home.[sm]
[sm]Edited, Thu Dec 8 23:46:49 2005 by BellamDreamguard
Maurna <The Dark Arrow Legion>
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
Well, Bell, hopefully this weekend you and I can get some play time in together - I miss getting on TS with you and Faromor and just blasting through some zones.
So you know, I haven't played my pally for more than 3 minutes in quite some time, so you brought back quite a few things I had forgotten.
I wasn't trying to make a SK r00lz, Pally's dr00l post, and after reading the perspective from someone who rarely gives their paladin a rest, you made better comparisons than I did on some things, INHO. I like both classes quite a bit. But right now, for me, Evil is winning over good.
So lemme go over some of your points:
You have too many alts. I never get to group with you anymore.
Dude, you don't even want to know...lol
Pally -> Lay on Hands SK -> Harm Touch Advantage: Pally
Comment: LoH is ridiculously usefull. It's like a free "do-over" every 90 minutes.
So is HT, and its a MASSIVE agg-grabber. That 2k heal that you just gave yourself? I just took a huge portion of it away. Later in life, there is an AA that turns your HT to a Lifetap, though. I cannot wait. :-) (on the opposite side, I **think** there is a Pally AA that turns LoH into an almost CH?
SK slightly better for general solo play, but Pally is EXTREMELY useful in group settings
As are SK's. Those taps I'm casting is making the mob weaker for you, hes dealing less to you, hes easier to hit, etc.
SK's get snares like we get Rezes. That is to say, way later than their base class. I'll take my "useless" root anyday. What would a pally do with a snare anyway? We don't have DoTs to make the worth anything to us. Root at least allows us some sort of CC.
The CC, I'll grant you - would be very nice to be able to park a mob, vs delay him. But I will also tell you that I have had my root broken so quickly, so many times as of late, it's, to me, next to useless.
Pally -> Paci SK -> Fear Advantage: SK.
I actually disagree with you on this. Grouped? No way. I'd much rather have a single pull. Think LDON. You fear, hes gonna go get his buddies.
Pally -> Resurrection SK -> Spears Advantage: SK
The DPS is sweet, aye, but it is still weird to me that SoE would make a class with so much command over the dead, except to pull back players from it. I know why though - class balancing.
Pally -> ??? We get to be non-KoS in most cities ??? SK -> Pet Advantage: SK Okay, I'm out. Got nothin on the pally end that even comes close to having a little buddy.
Hes actually NOT that wonderful, at least for me, not yet. Yeah, he kicks and dual wields and stuff, but for the most part, hes **really** dumb, and winds up getting himself killed, cause he wont listen to my barrage of commands. I look at him the way I look at "The Mighty Cubby" - hes there to offer me a few precious seconds to do something important, and maybe as a slight improvement of DPS. Nothing more, nothing less. Might be a little more useful once "Pet Hold" comes into play.
Okay Thor, I've donned my ring of flame resistance, let me have it.
Lights a match, that is blown out. Go to the Asylum if you wanna get pounced - you'll get nothing from me that's not a good, ol' fashion, clean debate. :)
Lastly, Bell, one quick reminder:
The very first character I wanted to make, for group play, was an SK. Robilar convinced me to do something else (mainly because of the KoS issue, and the difficluty in playing an SK effectively, as we were all still new to the game, as was everyone in those days), which is when I rolled up Thor.
Knowing what I now know, he was right. Playing an SK **effectively** requires more than just clicking on a target and hitting Q.
Hi, my name is Thoryndar, and I think I speak for Bellam Dreamguard and myself when I say we love EQ.
Edited, Fri Dec 9 14:49:36 2005 by Thoryndar
So you know, I haven't played my pally for more than 3 minutes in quite some time, so you brought back quite a few things I had forgotten.
I wasn't trying to make a SK r00lz, Pally's dr00l post, and after reading the perspective from someone who rarely gives their paladin a rest, you made better comparisons than I did on some things, INHO. I like both classes quite a bit. But right now, for me, Evil is winning over good.
So lemme go over some of your points:
You have too many alts. I never get to group with you anymore.
Dude, you don't even want to know...lol
Pally -> Lay on Hands SK -> Harm Touch Advantage: Pally
Comment: LoH is ridiculously usefull. It's like a free "do-over" every 90 minutes.
So is HT, and its a MASSIVE agg-grabber. That 2k heal that you just gave yourself? I just took a huge portion of it away. Later in life, there is an AA that turns your HT to a Lifetap, though. I cannot wait. :-) (on the opposite side, I **think** there is a Pally AA that turns LoH into an almost CH?
SK slightly better for general solo play, but Pally is EXTREMELY useful in group settings
As are SK's. Those taps I'm casting is making the mob weaker for you, hes dealing less to you, hes easier to hit, etc.
SK's get snares like we get Rezes. That is to say, way later than their base class. I'll take my "useless" root anyday. What would a pally do with a snare anyway? We don't have DoTs to make the worth anything to us. Root at least allows us some sort of CC.
The CC, I'll grant you - would be very nice to be able to park a mob, vs delay him. But I will also tell you that I have had my root broken so quickly, so many times as of late, it's, to me, next to useless.
Pally -> Paci SK -> Fear Advantage: SK.
I actually disagree with you on this. Grouped? No way. I'd much rather have a single pull. Think LDON. You fear, hes gonna go get his buddies.
Pally -> Resurrection SK -> Spears Advantage: SK
The DPS is sweet, aye, but it is still weird to me that SoE would make a class with so much command over the dead, except to pull back players from it. I know why though - class balancing.
Pally -> ??? We get to be non-KoS in most cities ??? SK -> Pet Advantage: SK Okay, I'm out. Got nothin on the pally end that even comes close to having a little buddy.
Hes actually NOT that wonderful, at least for me, not yet. Yeah, he kicks and dual wields and stuff, but for the most part, hes **really** dumb, and winds up getting himself killed, cause he wont listen to my barrage of commands. I look at him the way I look at "The Mighty Cubby" - hes there to offer me a few precious seconds to do something important, and maybe as a slight improvement of DPS. Nothing more, nothing less. Might be a little more useful once "Pet Hold" comes into play.
Okay Thor, I've donned my ring of flame resistance, let me have it.
Lights a match, that is blown out. Go to the Asylum if you wanna get pounced - you'll get nothing from me that's not a good, ol' fashion, clean debate. :)
Lastly, Bell, one quick reminder:
The very first character I wanted to make, for group play, was an SK. Robilar convinced me to do something else (mainly because of the KoS issue, and the difficluty in playing an SK effectively, as we were all still new to the game, as was everyone in those days), which is when I rolled up Thor.
Knowing what I now know, he was right. Playing an SK **effectively** requires more than just clicking on a target and hitting Q.
Hi, my name is Thoryndar, and I think I speak for Bellam Dreamguard and myself when I say we love EQ.
Edited, Fri Dec 9 14:49:36 2005 by Thoryndar
I wanna throw my 
in for the Paladin.
comparison's between the SK and Paladin above were very nicely done.
Paladins are great against casters, stun disrupts casting of mobs.
Also once you get 51+ and get the AA's you get the best mount in the game. (I love that perk!)
My paladin handles his part of the DPS and I take Agro at will.
I have also tried the SK and the War, but My path lies with the Paladin.
in for the Paladin. comparison's between the SK and Paladin above were very nicely done.
Paladins are great against casters, stun disrupts casting of mobs.
Also once you get 51+ and get the AA's you get the best mount in the game. (I love that perk!)
My paladin handles his part of the DPS and I take Agro at will.
I have also tried the SK and the War, but My path lies with the Paladin.
Quote:
Pally -> ??? We get to be non-KoS in most cities ??? SK -> Pet Advantage: SK Okay, I'm out. Got nothin on the pally end that even comes close to having a little buddy.
Hes actually NOT that wonderful, at least for me, not yet. Yeah, he kicks and dual wields and stuff, but for the most part, hes **really** dumb, and winds up getting himself killed, cause he wont listen to my barrage of commands. I look at him the way I look at "The Mighty Cubby" - hes there to offer me a few precious seconds to do something important, and maybe as a slight improvement of DPS. Nothing more, nothing less. Might be a little more useful once "Pet Hold" comes into play.
Hes actually NOT that wonderful, at least for me, not yet. Yeah, he kicks and dual wields and stuff, but for the most part, hes **really** dumb, and winds up getting himself killed, cause he wont listen to my barrage of commands. I look at him the way I look at "The Mighty Cubby" - hes there to offer me a few precious seconds to do something important, and maybe as a slight improvement of DPS. Nothing more, nothing less. Might be a little more useful once "Pet Hold" comes into play.
You forgot to mention pet pulling. That alone makes it a worthwhile pet.
Thoryndar wrote:
Pally -> Paci SK -> Fear Advantage: SK.
I actually disagree with you on this. Grouped? No way. I'd much rather have a single pull. Think LDON. You fear, hes gonna go get his buddies.
I actually disagree with you on this. Grouped? No way. I'd much rather have a single pull. Think LDON. You fear, hes gonna go get his buddies.
You overrate Pacify. It can be resisted (which is "bad"), and what do you do with the MOBs are over the limit (I fight almost exclusively yellow and red cons now)?
SK can FD/Split just about anything.. and being a plate class, they can take more shots that I can doing it.
SK > Pally as a single pulling class, sorry.
We were comparing the relative benefit of Paci as opposed to SK's Fear based spells. I say the fear based spells bring more to the character, as Fear kiting is an effective way to solo - Paci, while usefull, isn't that great.
We weren't comparing FD to Paci. FD is so usefull it jumps several boundries. In my comparison, I categorized it as a "get out of jail free" card. In a group, however, given the choice between Paci pulling and FD pulling, I almost always see Paci pulling get chosen. (Under the cap, of course.)
But it almost never is. FD can be seen through, or you can be hit as you cast it.
From about level 10 to level 50, I can count the number of resists I've gotten on Pacify (or its younger siblings) on one hand. The number that subsequently aggroed on me - half that number. I spent a LOT of time in LDoNs, so it isn't as if I haven't had a lot of experience with it.
Besides, you can paci wandering mobs before they stumble into your camp. This is really usefull when the group is already engaged. (I have done this many times.) You can't do that so easily with FD. (I suppose you'd have to train the add away, and hope it hadn't become aware of your group at the same time it became aware of you.)
I agree, SK > Pally as a single pulling class, with the addendum, on mobs > level 55.
Before that, it's pretty even. In tight quarters, with mobs just outside agro radius, I think we're probably a little bit better. I've perfectly single pulled more LDoNs than I can remember.
We weren't comparing FD to Paci. FD is so usefull it jumps several boundries. In my comparison, I categorized it as a "get out of jail free" card. In a group, however, given the choice between Paci pulling and FD pulling, I almost always see Paci pulling get chosen. (Under the cap, of course.)
Felicite wrote:
You overrate Pacify. It can be resisted.
But it almost never is. FD can be seen through, or you can be hit as you cast it.
From about level 10 to level 50, I can count the number of resists I've gotten on Pacify (or its younger siblings) on one hand. The number that subsequently aggroed on me - half that number. I spent a LOT of time in LDoNs, so it isn't as if I haven't had a lot of experience with it.
Besides, you can paci wandering mobs before they stumble into your camp. This is really usefull when the group is already engaged. (I have done this many times.) You can't do that so easily with FD. (I suppose you'd have to train the add away, and hope it hadn't become aware of your group at the same time it became aware of you.)
I agree, SK > Pally as a single pulling class, with the addendum, on mobs > level 55.
Before that, it's pretty even. In tight quarters, with mobs just outside agro radius, I think we're probably a little bit better. I've perfectly single pulled more LDoNs than I can remember.
Maurna <The Dark Arrow Legion>
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
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