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Why did they make research worthlessFollow

#1 Apr 14 2012 at 10:20 PM Rating: Default
I've noticed that now every spell in the game up to lvl 85 can be bought in PoK,and the spells above lvl 85 that cant be bought,also cant be researched.And considering that if you farm everything you still cant make a spell for less that it costs at vendors (this is including the massive amount of combines it takes to get research to a lvl that you can actually succeed in making the spell you need),and if you buy everything that can be bought to make a spell the cost is about 5 times or more than you can buy it for,so they did in fact make the tradeskill:research totally useless.Which means the thousands of platinum I spent getting my skill to 267 was simply wasted.So "WHY" did they do this,"WHY" did the make research worthless?I just returned to EQ after a 5 yr break and now im thinking it was a mistake,considering the biggest reason I left was because they kept "Dumbing it down" for the cry babies.

Edited, Apr 15th 2012 12:22am by dusty991
#2 Apr 15 2012 at 5:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Most higher level researched spells result in Rk. II versions, not Rk. I (or no Rk.). So it's still useful and viable for higher level (71+) spells.

Yther Ore.
#3 Apr 15 2012 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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Perhaps it's because some of us want to play casters without having to waste countless hours doing the magical equivalent of working on tradeskills.

I think I could tolerate playing a Necro now, maybe I'll roll one..


Edit: note, not being a ****, read it as thought I'm stroking my beard and talking as though I'm actively pondering the question.

Edited, Apr 15th 2012 7:59am by Driftwood
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#4 Apr 15 2012 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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And now that I've fully read the OP, I will also mention that some of us want to play the game as a game, and not as a job. I realize that some people like to play that way, do all the tradeskills and stuff, but I prefer to play a video game, not work on one. It's the reason I stopped playing EVE.
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10k before the site's inevitable death or bust

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#5 Apr 15 2012 at 6:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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EQ Tradeskills are sadistic design. Revised research being the ultimate of Dev-Ngreth's fantasies realized. Yes it is systematic... and yes it fills your bank with "required" mats just to get into the mid-100s for skill. To some it is even simple, but I would contend that it is in no way concise or welcoming to the reluctant tradeskiller.

Progression revealed how broken the system was since only a few bothered to research (as they locked out certain components which made it even more expensive to skill up) as it wasn't practical. As a necro on progression I skipped the majority of the research only spells (even though I was working on research) because I didn't have the skill needed to make the spells even after burning all my plat and farmed mats --spending another 3 weeks gathering stuff to go for the level 24 pet or just level up to 28... Instead I levelled into the 40s and started paying huge costs for some spells.

On regular servers, good luck finding a research only spell under level 75 on baz. Prepare to pay huge if you find a researcher willing to make it. The workaround is have a friendly guildie.

In short, research had become another roadblock to returning/new and casual players interested in any class that had research-only or hard to get aside from (in theory) research spells. The PoK vendors were about 7 years overdue for the level 61-65 spells. The others should have been there the day PoK opened. Most gear has been made obsolete by the expac that follows it all along, why spells remained restricted for so long never made sense to me.

As Yther already said, higher level research still has value. It even makes sense that end-game content would be where the active researchers would be making spells since that is where the predictable population (customer need) is.
#6 Apr 18 2012 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good

dusty, you came back after a 5 year break with your 267 research skill. I have eight characters with higher research than you have (and half of them aren't casters!). Not only do I get full value from my researchers, they tend to make some bank for me as well. Yes, the subcombines freakin' suck but those can be done during downtime well in advance of needing the spells.

With free to play, they needed to make the rank 1 versions of all spells easily available (since that's the rank the free & silver players have immediate access to). Show of hands, how many people actively use rank 1 spells post-71? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Rank 1 spells only have value to people who can't find/get/make the rank 2 or 3 versions of the spells but still want the use of the spell's ability. Before free to play, I made every TBS spell that was available for all my classes (read: all classes except beastlord) and several SoF if I recall. Why? Because I think gating spells behind faction requirements is idiotic when that expansion is no longer current (or even relevant). Remember the TBS code that was supposed to force people to do different missions by lowering the reward for popular missions? A single group can manipulate that system today (done it) and that's asinine. Who the heck is doing TBS content right now, except for hand aug?

Bottom line is, research is still very useful. The difference is, people can't farm up or research low level spells and charge a king's ransom for them (which I have been guilty of doing for "rare" spells like Bane of Nife and Pox and Malo and Word of Restoration and level 65 glyphed rune word spells and such). You stand a much better chance of making a profit selling spells in your own level range since those are the materials you'll see most often.

As for the dumbing down aspect, I don't like it but I can't blame them for doing it. Let's pretend you're the CEO of a company and you see your competitors following a trend that's making them ridiculous money. Money, I should add, at your expense since they're stealing many of your customers. Now, do you try to find some way to integrate those trends into your rapidly shrinking customer base or do you remain obstinate and think that your way has worked for years so it'll continue to work and people will come to their senses and come rushing back to you? I don't like what today's EQ has become but I can't blame SOE for trying to make it what they think is "casual friendly". I also can't blame them for trying to pass off an unlimited trial as a free to play model. "Maximum accessibility" (read: faceroll difficulty) and "free to play" are ruling the MMO genre right now. No barrier to entry (besides downloading a client) and no recurring fees without your express permission, make the genre accessible to even those people who didn't know what 'MMO' stood for two, three, five years ago.

Bottom line, those crybabies have more money (collectively) than you do. And C.R.E.A.M so.....
#7 Apr 18 2012 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
dusty991 wrote:
I've noticed that now every spell in the game up to lvl 85 can be bought in PoK,and the spells above lvl 85 that cant be bought,also cant be researched.And considering that if you farm everything you still cant make a spell for less that it costs at vendors (this is including the massive amount of combines it takes to get research to a lvl that you can actually succeed in making the spell you need),and if you buy everything that can be bought to make a spell the cost is about 5 times or more than you can buy it for,so they did in fact make the tradeskill:research totally useless.Which means the thousands of platinum I spent getting my skill to 267 was simply wasted.So "WHY" did they do this,"WHY" did the make research worthless?I just returned to EQ after a 5 yr break and now im thinking it was a mistake,considering the biggest reason I left was because they kept "Dumbing it down" for the cry babies.

Edited, Apr 15th 2012 12:22am by dusty991


I just wanted to note that level 71+ spells are bought, but Rank 2 aren't. Those are still researchable and are still desirable. I'm not sure if you're aware, but we researchers are still able to make Rank 2 spells. The only thing you'll find on the vendors are the Rank 1's, which are practically useless.
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#8 Apr 19 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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I use rank one spells post 71 since the extra help of rank 2 doesnt always translate to the extra plat you have to pay for the researcher. I did keep a sharp eye on vendors in POK/Bazaar and have lots of the rank 2 drops waiting for me to level up.
#9 Apr 19 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Rank II is important when resist checks come into play, otherwise it really is just having that slight bit better spell in most cases.

As others have said. Rank II is not on the vendors and is researchable.

Expecting a sales market off the level range that still bogs casuals down (51-69) is kind of silly in the greater context.

Expecting a sales market off level 1-50 which you can do in minimal playtime in TSS hotzones was somewhat wishful anyways.
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