Our old game (anyone reading here probably feels some attachment) has really had an amazing run. Amazing in part as it continues.
WoW is now an old game too (10 years) and remains the segment leader by far. This gives them a massive advantage in development as the staff is exponentially larger, and they have the advantage of a much newer base game they are tweaking from (they got to take "the best" of all the games prior and do their thing while avoiding some of the bad design choices EQ is still living with).
EQ probably hasn't done much innovation/market leading since about LDoN? (trying to think of a feature or approach that EQ pioneered [that was any good] after that and drawing a blank).
WoW's new expansion has some really interesting things to me as an EQ fan
-item squish (they are revising all the gear stats down to make endgame more reasonable as in no more 6 digit damage hits)
-the removal of a bunch of stats from the game (They weren't working ideally so we are getting rid of them basically)
-geography and lore altering changes (they revamped more areas with Cataclysm than EQ has ever dared)
-consolidation of spell/ability lines to get back to "reasonable and fun hotbars"
-updating of all the older race models to look better, not necessarily different
-a lot of stuff (heirlooms, pets, mounts) going account wide and accessable from their own inventory windows
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of dumb in wow as a game (and a lot of stupid in the playerbase). The artificial faction separation of the playerbase is really messy in reality. Half the lore is so lame it makes Luclin storyline seem Pulitzer worthy. Everyone has massive shoulders for no logical reason... I happen to enjoy battlegrounds so that helps them keep me interested from time to time. I know EQ's dev team can't do everything WoW has or can do. I do think they should consider the successful examples and risks more though.
What WoW features, changes or approaches do you think EQ should or could do?
Edited, Oct 23rd 2014 8:18pm by snailish
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I'd love to see EQ adopt the way certain classes play in WoW.
The warrior is a good example. In EQ as a warrior you're just stuck with auto attack,taunt, and kick/bash, but in WoW, you have charge, yells, thunder clap, taunting blows. It just feels more interactive and fun, instead of just pressing auto attack, and go make a sandwich untill you get AAs that give you more things tp click. No idea if they can implement this because of the way the engine works.
The way tradeskills work in WoW is also great, they're simple, easy to level up, since a bunch of ingredients can be found as your level up, the crafting window is understandable, and you can craft multiple items with just one click, instead of having to click every single combine. What I think is stupid is the amount of time somethings take to craft, I don't know what's the reason for it, but it's probably the only dumb thing their crafting system has.
Another thing that amazed me in WoW was the way food and drink works, I though "oh this is way better than just sittingto regen health and mana!", but if they added that in EQ regen spells might be kinda pointless?
I don't know, I think EQ should just be remade as a whole, it's a huge mess as it is right now, it's probably too expensive for them to do, but one thing I'd appreciate would be a new art/asset modeling team, because holy crap there hasn't been any good composition in any zone since Velious! Every time I go to one of the newer zones I just cringe at the mess that they are, it just looks like they dumped a whole bunch of random assets in a bumpy plot of land!
The warrior is a good example. In EQ as a warrior you're just stuck with auto attack,taunt, and kick/bash, but in WoW, you have charge, yells, thunder clap, taunting blows. It just feels more interactive and fun, instead of just pressing auto attack, and go make a sandwich untill you get AAs that give you more things tp click. No idea if they can implement this because of the way the engine works.
The way tradeskills work in WoW is also great, they're simple, easy to level up, since a bunch of ingredients can be found as your level up, the crafting window is understandable, and you can craft multiple items with just one click, instead of having to click every single combine. What I think is stupid is the amount of time somethings take to craft, I don't know what's the reason for it, but it's probably the only dumb thing their crafting system has.
Another thing that amazed me in WoW was the way food and drink works, I though "oh this is way better than just sittingto regen health and mana!", but if they added that in EQ regen spells might be kinda pointless?
I don't know, I think EQ should just be remade as a whole, it's a huge mess as it is right now, it's probably too expensive for them to do, but one thing I'd appreciate would be a new art/asset modeling team, because holy crap there hasn't been any good composition in any zone since Velious! Every time I go to one of the newer zones I just cringe at the mess that they are, it just looks like they dumped a whole bunch of random assets in a bumpy plot of land!
-REDACTED-
Scholar
77 posts
EQ and WoW are totally different games though. I honestly can't think of anything I would like copied from WoW into EQ.
No reason you can't play them both. I've been going back and forth between the two for the past 10 years.
No reason you can't play them both. I've been going back and forth between the two for the past 10 years.
stdamm33 wrote:
EQ and WoW are totally different games though. I honestly can't think of anything I would like copied from WoW into EQ.
No reason you can't play them both. I've been going back and forth between the two for the past 10 years.
No reason you can't play them both. I've been going back and forth between the two for the past 10 years.
Fair enough I suppose. It has a long history of occurring in any industry though.
EQ and WoW both stole their achievement systems from what Warhammer Online introduced (Warhammer's was very roleplayish though... one of the best things in the game). I only mentioned WoW in the original post as it is the market leader and (like the NFL vs. other sports leagues) has shown a willingness to try new things and untry them too.
I'll use the new WoW "toybox" as an example:
All the dumb/funny clicky items from the (now labelled as toy) collection in WoW go to the account-wide inventory window once you click them once to use them. Some of these were already account tradable across characters/servers others were not.
Now they don't take up bank space necessarily (it seems old ones are grandfathered to still be in the bank of the character that had them. New ones seem to disappear into the new inventory the 1st time they are clicked).
My EQ account has legends of Norrath and other familiars, trinkets and such across all sorts of alts. EQ sometimes has some of them tagged as tradable, but that's been sketchy. This feature would really be nice... so I could start a new character and have access to the stuff I have earned/bought/claimed and be able to find it all quickly. It would also show the ones I have yet to acquire... incomplete checklists help motivate some personality types to do things.
I predict this single change would pay for itself quickly in station cash sales of the "toy" items you get via that route, once people realized they only needed 4 more toys for the "grinch" achievement. (Or whatever they did with it... that's speculative).
Wizorb wrote:
and you can craft multiple items with just one click, instead of having to click every single combine.!
remorajunbao wrote:
One day I'm going to fly to Canada and open the curtains in your office.
These kinds of threads always seem to boil down to: please turn EQ into WoW!
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
I suspect EQ has survived this long expressedly because it is NOT WoW. The game appeals for the most part to gamers, a lot of them older than the typical WoW crowd, who don't like the WoW gameplay. I've played EQ since 1999 and I played WoW seriously for about 4 years (a while back) and it always bothers me when I see changes to EQ which are reminiscent of WoW. For example, I actually hate revamping old zones, like Misty Thicket. What's the POINT? The only reason to redesign a noobie zone like that is as part of a feeble effort to entice WoW-type players to play EQ. For old-time EQ players like me, and there are plenty of us, it just destroys our memories of the "olden days." Thank God they stopped with this "revamp noobie zones" strategy before they butchered Butcherblock, my favorite Old World zone!
You really want leveling tradeskills to be made even easier? They're pretty easy now, aren't they, especially as compared to years ago. How about just starting every new player at 300 in every trade skill? Like they did with SENSE HEADING a few years back. What a lame "improvement" that was! It made so much sense for a new player to start out with a wildly spinning compass and no clear orientation to his new world. Even back then dropping a weapon on the ground and watching how clouds moved could give you some idea of directions. And SENSE HEADING could be bound to movement keys so you could raise the skill over time.
Heck, just call me Old Skool Sippin! I still resent how they gave everybody maxed-out leadership AA's which used to be a "badge of honor" for players who actually led and managed groups.
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
I suspect EQ has survived this long expressedly because it is NOT WoW. The game appeals for the most part to gamers, a lot of them older than the typical WoW crowd, who don't like the WoW gameplay. I've played EQ since 1999 and I played WoW seriously for about 4 years (a while back) and it always bothers me when I see changes to EQ which are reminiscent of WoW. For example, I actually hate revamping old zones, like Misty Thicket. What's the POINT? The only reason to redesign a noobie zone like that is as part of a feeble effort to entice WoW-type players to play EQ. For old-time EQ players like me, and there are plenty of us, it just destroys our memories of the "olden days." Thank God they stopped with this "revamp noobie zones" strategy before they butchered Butcherblock, my favorite Old World zone!
You really want leveling tradeskills to be made even easier? They're pretty easy now, aren't they, especially as compared to years ago. How about just starting every new player at 300 in every trade skill? Like they did with SENSE HEADING a few years back. What a lame "improvement" that was! It made so much sense for a new player to start out with a wildly spinning compass and no clear orientation to his new world. Even back then dropping a weapon on the ground and watching how clouds moved could give you some idea of directions. And SENSE HEADING could be bound to movement keys so you could raise the skill over time.
Heck, just call me Old Skool Sippin! I still resent how they gave everybody maxed-out leadership AA's which used to be a "badge of honor" for players who actually led and managed groups.
Sippin 115 DRU **** Firiona Vie ****Agnarr
FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
Master Artisan (300+) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
Master Artisan (300+) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
Sippin wrote:
It made so much sense for a new player to start out with a wildly spinning compass and no clear orientation to his new world.
/e waves cane
You kids with your compasses, and maps, and maps with green X's on them! Why back in the day...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
gbaji wrote:
Why back in the day...
All zones were uphill and we ran through them in snow up to our knees.........
Sippin wrote:
These kinds of threads always seem to boil down to: please turn EQ into WoW!
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
Medding to an open spell book was just dumb. I don't want EQ to turn into WoW, but I do want it to be progressive.
Revamps have been with this game all along (ToCT, Plane of Hate, Runnyeye) they just lost there way with Fairy Nektulos. Most of the revamps aren't as bad as some say, Inny swamp is different but it "fits" well enough. Unless lore is impacting geography (a flood, a volcano...) then I prefer them to do modern clean (as in less pixels) renderings of the original concepts.
The EQ tradeskill approach is... of limited appeal. Even ignoring the mechanics of it... the uselessness of nearly everything you could make is a bit of a drawback.
Back to my OP though...
-item squish [would be great in EQ but isn't realistic as it appears any changes to items are done individually--where more likely to get another major item inflate to make old gear obsolete across the board.]
-the removal of a bunch of stats from the game [could work in EQ... make mod2, focus effects, etc. into AA and get the gear stat sheet back more to original EQ. They could also make these obtainable many levels before they were autogranted to put some value back in getting some AA early if one wants to]
-geography and lore altering changes [addressed above]
-consolidation of spell/ability lines to get back to "reasonable and fun hotbars" [5 abilities on the same cooldown, some of them surely could be combined?]
-updating of all the older race models to look better, not necessarily different [Drakkin are way crisper. This means human models could surely be too... just make the Drakkin stand up straight. Remove the contacts, ink + spikes, and take that hairspray out and you have a decent, rather slim vs traditional human model anyway]
-a lot of stuff (heirlooms, pets, mounts) going account wide and accessable from their own inventory windows [this is a UI and UI functionality change. Not game-soul changing]
One thing I do wish is they'd stop using old world naked NPC models for quest-givers and merchants in the new xpac zones. I mean how Uncreative is that? Can't they come up with a new model armor or robe for these NPCs, at least? They basically use the same concept for merchant NPCs in a level 101 zone as they do for old world noobie zones. Not very creative.
Sippin 115 DRU **** Firiona Vie ****Agnarr
FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
Master Artisan (300+) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
Master Artisan (300+) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
-REDACTED-
Scholar
77 posts
snailish wrote:
Sippin wrote:
These kinds of threads always seem to boil down to: please turn EQ into WoW!
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
Medding to an open spell book was just dumb. I don't want EQ to turn into WoW, but I do want it to be progressive.
Revamps have been with this game all along (ToCT, Plane of Hate, Runnyeye) they just lost there way with Fairy Nektulos. Most of the revamps aren't as bad as some say, Inny swamp is different but it "fits" well enough. Unless lore is impacting geography (a flood, a volcano...) then I prefer them to do modern clean (as in less pixels) renderings of the original concepts.
The EQ tradeskill approach is... of limited appeal. Even ignoring the mechanics of it... the uselessness of nearly everything you could make is a bit of a drawback.
Back to my OP though...
-item squish [would be great in EQ but isn't realistic as it appears any changes to items are done individually--where more likely to get another major item inflate to make old gear obsolete across the board.]
-the removal of a bunch of stats from the game [could work in EQ... make mod2, focus effects, etc. into AA and get the gear stat sheet back more to original EQ. They could also make these obtainable many levels before they were autogranted to put some value back in getting some AA early if one wants to]
-geography and lore altering changes [addressed above]
-consolidation of spell/ability lines to get back to "reasonable and fun hotbars" [5 abilities on the same cooldown, some of them surely could be combined?]
-updating of all the older race models to look better, not necessarily different [Drakkin are way crisper. This means human models could surely be too... just make the Drakkin stand up straight. Remove the contacts, ink + spikes, and take that hairspray out and you have a decent, rather slim vs traditional human model anyway]
-a lot of stuff (heirlooms, pets, mounts) going account wide and accessable from their own inventory windows [this is a UI and UI functionality change. Not game-soul changing]
I absolutely agree with you that EQ needs to be progressive (despite me not wanting it to copy WoW). I am one of those people who think the whole "original" experience is just rose colored glasses. I've been there and done that too. I want NEW stuff. Personally I really like the direction that EQ has taken in both the "Post TSS" and "Post SoD" world. House of Thule is my favorite expansion in all of EQ, hands down.
Item Squish - I honestly don't think it's needed at this point. EQ has done a very good job of avoiding high inflation of stats. Frankly they don't have the development manpower to be able to handle all the consequences of such an action.
Removal of Stats - An alternative (read: less development time) solution might be to have a checkbox next to each stat to show which ones you want to display or not. For example, on my Monk, I would choose to not display Clairvoyence because it does nothing for me.
Combining abilities - I absolutely agree with you on this one. Playing a monk, the amount of abilities gets a little crazy. It wouldn't hurt them to conservatively combine a few of them.
Models - No good can come of this. Even if they had the resources.
-REDACTED-
Scholar
77 posts
snailish wrote:
Sippin wrote:
These kinds of threads always seem to boil down to: please turn EQ into WoW!
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
If you want WoW, PLAY WoW! :)
Medding to an open spell book was just dumb. I don't want EQ to turn into WoW, but I do want it to be progressive.
Revamps have been with this game all along (ToCT, Plane of Hate, Runnyeye) they just lost there way with Fairy Nektulos. Most of the revamps aren't as bad as some say, Inny swamp is different but it "fits" well enough. Unless lore is impacting geography (a flood, a volcano...) then I prefer them to do modern clean (as in less pixels) renderings of the original concepts.
The EQ tradeskill approach is... of limited appeal. Even ignoring the mechanics of it... the uselessness of nearly everything you could make is a bit of a drawback.
Back to my OP though...
-item squish [would be great in EQ but isn't realistic as it appears any changes to items are done individually--where more likely to get another major item inflate to make old gear obsolete across the board.]
-the removal of a bunch of stats from the game [could work in EQ... make mod2, focus effects, etc. into AA and get the gear stat sheet back more to original EQ. They could also make these obtainable many levels before they were autogranted to put some value back in getting some AA early if one wants to]
-geography and lore altering changes [addressed above]
-consolidation of spell/ability lines to get back to "reasonable and fun hotbars" [5 abilities on the same cooldown, some of them surely could be combined?]
-updating of all the older race models to look better, not necessarily different [Drakkin are way crisper. This means human models could surely be too... just make the Drakkin stand up straight. Remove the contacts, ink + spikes, and take that hairspray out and you have a decent, rather slim vs traditional human model anyway]
-a lot of stuff (heirlooms, pets, mounts) going account wide and accessable from their own inventory windows [this is a UI and UI functionality change. Not game-soul changing]
I absolutely agree with you that EQ needs to be progressive (despite me not wanting it to copy WoW). I am one of those people who think the whole "original" experience is just rose colored glasses. I've been there and done that too. I want NEW stuff. Personally I really like the direction that EQ has taken in both the "Post TSS" and "Post SoD" world. House of Thule is my favorite expansion in all of EQ, hands down.
Item Squish - I honestly don't think it's needed at this point. EQ has done a very good job of avoiding high inflation of stats. Frankly they don't have the development manpower to be able to handle all the consequences of such an action.
Removal of Stats - An alternative (read: less development time) solution might be to have a checkbox next to each stat to show which ones you want to display or not. For example, on my Monk, I would choose to not display Clairvoyence because it does nothing for me.
Combining abilities - I absolutely agree with you on this one. Playing a monk, the amount of abilities gets a little crazy. It wouldn't hurt them to conservatively combine a few of them.
Models - No good can come of this. Even if they had the resources.
stdamm33 wrote:
Models - No good can come of this. Even if they had the resources.
I have to agree it's a high-risk proposal.
It wouldn't be an across the board priority for me either. I would however, clean up the dwarf models (while beefing up the options) and add a Coldain heritage tab to the race as an example of something I think would be worth doing.
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