What EQ Needs to Do: Idea Thread Summer 2016Follow

Let's just brainstorm ideas. This means no evaluation of practicality, tradition or logic... a brainstorm in the truest sense. It may be tempting to write paragraphs, but being honest short and to the point is more likely to be read.

Next Expac:
-I'm hearing that serious raiders want another Underfoot. Deep tiers of raiding with worthwhile progression stages/itemization that is difficult to do in era.
-For years the more super-casual have been wanting another The Serpent's Spine. A reason to play 1-85 again. New quests. New race(s). Even the shortcut of new races out of a revamped Crescent Reach (with TSS quest gear being better than same level defiant) could pacify this interest somewhat. There's even a couple of easy to use races (Goblin, Sarnak, Aviak, Kobold) that it would be pretty easy to lore-stretch into PC races.

-No more continents. The world is massive, and unfinished in so many places... ripe for revamp in so many places.

-More race/class combos... even adding 1 a year (and sticking with the most logical such as Iksar Berzerkers, Erudite EVIL wizards, mages, etc. vs. doing goofy stuff like Dark Elf druids)... and allow them to start at own racial cities! (so fix wood elf beast and froglok monk...).

-continue AA and other consolidations to make returning to live 85 game more appealing to people that have been away or never played. This is a big deal, but hard to see if you've been playing all along or even just the last few years.

-Revamps... with logic. So don't change the zone geometry except maybe adding a tunnel off (for example) if adding a new zone (i.e., Deeper Kithicor could be made off of Kithicor forest). Progression servers are enhanced when zones are obsolete (i.e., Cazic Thule) and the live game has way too much under 80 content. Yes... they need to move or provide alternatives to quests NPC, but we don't need the massively diverse levelling tree of zones... in a post-PoK world you could make Lfay, Dagnor's, Unrest, etc. level 90+ ...might even improve retention of returning players if they were doing old zones for new loots in the 85+ game without this being a special event thing.

-Old stuff used in new stuff. Instead of complaining that Epic quests are too hard to write x 16 do more of what was done at times in the past of linking quests together (earring of Solstice, Updated Coldain Shawl, Cabilis class quests). Something like Breakdown in communication is already basically an epic... why not create a level 110 group quest upgrade to it and a 110 end-game raid upgrade? Get value out of the assets already in the game.

-Speaking of old things... re-use some old factions in fun ways. No more new factions ad naseum (or currencies)

-launch a new live server with the Phinigel server boxing code, instancing/load balancing but with at least normal XP. Allow paid transfers into this server. Consider giving this server (or doing 2) with the FV loot code but none of the other FV server pecularities.

-Do some live servers need merging? Maybe it is time to offer free transfers off the 2-3 lowest population ones and then merge them away leaving a few less original servers, but hopefully more robust.

-Some special servers do need merging. Vulak (I play there a bit) does. Trakanon currently has transfers off... but is pretty low population. I play there too. Vulak and Trakanon gone allows them to try other things (How about a no marketplace, no Krono, no loyalty, no claim server? --funny thing is I think people would sub to play on it).

-multiclassing. I don't know how to balance this... but it could be a fun way to extend the game. Maybe a special hotbar (like potion bar) that only lets you use 3 "off class" abilities at any given time with a noncombat memming requirement? I hesitate to do it under the current AA system...

Serpent's Spine was my favorite expansion for various reasons. It was when I became more serious about EQ. That whole expansion was so fun for me that I started spending more time in-game because of it. Questing, raiding, grinding xp, ohmergawd. I know it'll never happy, but I still hope that one day they'll decide to create an expansion like TSS again.

In terms of what I think EQ "needs to do", but won't because it's too big a project:

Make an expansion with a new playable race/class (like Kunark) and a spread of zones for all levels to XP (like Kunark or the aforementioned Serpent's Spine). I've always been a big proponent of a goblin playable race, since there are already goblin cities and AFAIK goblin NPCs in game represent every class except paladin, cleric, druid and monk. They don't even have to have a new class, since that would probably be the biggest challenge in terms of development and game balance. I'd be happy enough with a new continent or regions to level my new goblin whatever from 1-UP!

Not to be a pessimist, but I don't see this happening. TBM is probably representative of the expansion "standard" now, with a few zones, some of them ripped from other zones, and not much content, especially for non-raiders. For the first time in my EQ history (and I go back to 1999) I have barely explored an expansion because I haven't enjoyed what little I've visited so far. True, though, it hasn't helped at all that my usual source of info (allakhazam) is devoid of content about TBM. In previous expansions there were players regularly and comprehensively sharing their discoveries about zones, quests and progression tasks. Very little of that with TBM. It's been a disappointment, for sure.

expand the "keyring" tabs (mount and illusion) to include:

-familiars
-Nimbus (Nimbi? Nimbuses?)

I will also repeat my proposal to boost both lower level gameplay as well as real grouping:

Create quests or nameds in lower level zones with rewards of drops of high quality useable by higher-level toons. The drops should be no-drop but transferrable within the account, otherwise known as "heirloom." The item only drops if the group fighting the named is made up entirely of 6 real players and of suitable level, with NO involvement of higher-level toons.

For example, Emperor Crush has a small chance of dropping a 4000 HEM weapon but only if he is killed by a group of 6 real players for whom his death provides XP. The item won't drop if ANY other toon has engaged him in any way if that toon is too high to get XP from his defeat. I'd also recommend the XP bonus being significantly boosted for such a group so not everyone is forced to camp the named mob.

I think this would strongly encourage max-level players to play alts and thereby provide real grouping opportunities for new players or for players, like Fronglo, who are not or have never been max-level.

When I brought this idea up earlier it was shot down by people saying that EQ has no way to monitor whether a group is composed of real players. But they're doing that on the no-box servers now. They're probably checking for duplicate IP addresses. Yes, I know there are ways for players to fake their IP address but for this purpose call it a bannable offense. What about brothers or husband and wife playing on the same Internet connection? Do like they do at P99: require obtaining permission in advance for this situation.

Some might object that a high-level outside the group could beat down the named but not kill it and then zone to clear himself off the hate list. I suggest code could be developed which would keep track of whether any high-level had ever been on the hate list at any time during the encounter and, if so, deny the special drop when the mob dies.

Will this pess off raiders who, outraged that raid-quality loot could be obtained by <gasp!!!> the dreaded and oft-maligned so-called "casual" player, will quite en masse, thus costing DBG the essential hardcore base of raiding players? Tough! Frankly, EQ and DBG would be better served if the game revitalized the casual grouping player game because there is such a larger potential population of casuals as compared to hard-core 4-5 nights a week/4-5 hours a night raiders. But even if this was a real concern they could simply fine-tune the drops down a bit so raiders still have a sizeable edge. Either make the drop not quite so uber or make it drop much less frequentiy. It's been demonstrated that non-raiders will go to enormous effort for decent rewards, far more effort than raiders invest in playing the game. Just look at the Artisan Quest active now. I pursued achievements requiring completion of 46 different missions/quests to obtain the reward of a very "nice" augment, but comparable to what raiders can obtain by killing one raid boss. It's these kinds of epic-type quests and tasks which motivate players to stick and if the quest REQUIRES grouping with other real players, I think this would motivate people to find and maintain semi-permanent teams of such players to pursue such rewards. I miss the days when I could routinely log in and in a little while "hook up" (in a non-sexual way!) with several real player friends and go off to XP or explore. Sure, a major reason I don't do this anymore is that I six-box and am pretty much self-reliant. BUT... I started to six-box as the group game was dying off and it became so much harder to build "real" groups. A self-fulfilling prophecy, as it were.

I think we can all agree that anything that could stimulate increase in grouping of real players at lower levels would be beneficial to the game and worth pursuing. Right? I haven't played any of my lower level alts in ages (beyond using my 85 rogue to gather collectibles) but I know this would motivate me to start.



Edited, Aug 8th 2016 8:05am by Sippin

I fully agree Sippin. I'm sure it is the same for most of us who box, but I also started only due to the pool of player friends I grouped with grew smaller and smaller as they moved on to other games, etc. While I can still enjoy myself getting things accomplished with my box team, the level of enjoyment is minuscule by comparison. Nowadays, I don't play as often and for shorter stretches of time.

For many years I was a hardcore raider, four or five nights a week, six or more hours a night. I would love to relive some of those experiences, many of which are my most fond memories of EQ. The problem is I just can't dedicate that amount of time. If I could find a guild that raided from about 10pm-1am cst or close to those times I could make it work possibly. However, that is a hard time slot to find. I think what is comes down to for me would be to really get fully back into playing, or at least more than I do now, would be what most people are saying. Either a new expansion for the non-endgame, a revitalizing what is already there in terms of pre-85 content, or just something that would allow for me to ditch my box crew and just log on one character to find a group and go adventuring (leveling, loot hunting, task progression, whatever.)

I also should clarify, that by revitalizing pre-85 content, I do not mean zone revamps such as the Freeport fiasco. I really like Sippin's idea of the heirloom drops for older/lower level content, provided all of the stated stipulations apply.

The public quest idea could have something to it. However, I do feel there would need to be some tweaking to the Warhammer or Guild Wars 2 public quest systems if it was going to work. Those are the only two MMOs I've played with that system and both did not feel quite right. I'm not sure what the answer is to make them better, I just found myself avoiding them after doing them a few times.

Ironically, I'm the opposite. The best time for me to raid would be morning/afternoon EST and that's only possible with a Euro guild of which there aren't any really on FV. I can't see starting over on a new server just for this purpose, especially where I've gotten addicted to the FV loot rules.

I'd also suggest EQ considering allowing cross-server instancing, for grouping and/or raiding. The pop is now so low on most servers that this would have the immediate impact of greatly increasing the pool of real life players one could adventure with. This could even revitalize (to the extent the class balancing allows) the PvP game, like WoW did with their battlegrounds (assuming I fully understand how they work, since I only know from my son who played them a lot once upon a time.) It goes without saying that if they could find a way to allow players from ALL servers to get together for some purpose the game would be enhanced.

Ironically, FV players might be left stranded by such a system since inevitably "regular" server players might gripe about FV players having an unfair advantage, especially in PvP. The real irony is gripers will inevitable gripe, even while logged on the last night before DBG shuts down the servers for all time. You just know the LAST comment in a server chat before the lights go out will be something like "Darn* boxers taking all the best camp and phat lewts!"

*The word I originally used, with M in the place of R, got asterixed out by the bad word filter. Seriously? THAT word gets censored? C'mon ain't we all adults here? (At least chronologically!)

Edited, Aug 9th 2016 4:06pm by Sippin

Yeah. But those spells are balanced to the fact that they have a recourse effect. Paladins get several spells that do something to the target while healing its target (and a line of AAs that increase the effectiveness (er... Casting time? Darnit! Can't remember what it does!) of spells that heal through a target). Pretty handy when I'm not MT in a group or raid, since I can continue to do damage to the target, and help spot heal the tank. The problem is that if you make all heals/nukes do this, then these spells, which are already somewhat situational, become even less powerful relatively speaking. They'd have to re-balance those. Not that I'm adverse to this at all (I'd love to be able to use my faster casting heals without having to swap targets around), but I would like to see those types of spells adjusted for the fact that one of their selling features (not having to switch targets to use them) is now a "normal" function of a whole bunch of spells.

Is this where I repeat my usual wish list? I suppose top of that list is still removing group numbers for all tasks/raids (well, keep the maximums for raids, but eliminate the minimums). I'm one of those weird people who actually likes to go tool around in older content that I never got a chance to do with my main, but am now well past the appropriate level. Achievements are fun to do, but how am I going to be able to grab two other people to do the same thing I'm doing for fun, when they're not likely to get anything out of it? Kinda can't ask other people to do that. IMO, there's no real reason for these minimums. If someone can manage the content with less, then they should be able to do it. Items upgrade (and therefore degrade) at such a fast rate these days, that it's not like anyone's going to get much farming 20-30 levels old tasks. Anything below your current 5 level range is more or less obsolete anyway. So aside from some clickies maybe? But even then, those are usually more "fun" than "powerful", so I don't see the problem.

But if the two things they do are:

1. Nuke the mob
2. Heal the mob's target

And I'm already going to have at least one nuke and one heal in my spell lineup (which I do), why would I ever load it?

Some of these types of spells have other effects that can't easily be duplicated. But one of the Paladin spell lines (Admonish) does exactly those two things. If all heal spells healed through the mob to the mob's target, then I can already do those two things without having to change target. And guess what? I'm going to have a direct heal loaded because sometimes I'm going to need to heal someone who isn't the current target of the mob I'm fighting. So that spell line has been demoted from "useful in some group/raid situations" to "completely useless in all situations".

Well, I can't speak to the Paladin stuff, don't know any of it. For Druids, it would be an awesome change. I can load a nice spellset of mixed beni/detri spells, and cast to my hearts content without re-targeting all the time. And if one or two of those spells had recourse effects, they still would, and I'd still use them. I still don't get how the change I proposed makes them less useful.

Which was more or less what I was saying. To make the change to make all such spells pass through their target, they'd have to make adjustments to spell line that currently do that as a special ability since those spells already include in their balance the fact that they can do this while regular heals/nukes/whatever cannot. They'd have to be bumped up somehow to make them worth loading up.

Short, sweet and one of the best said things about the state of EQ I have seen in years.


I'd love it if the dev team looked at the game as if it was presently in beta, about to launch in 6 months. What should we change, refine, lose? What things go together due to overlap. What things aren't useful... how is this going to age over the next 5 expacs we do, and most importantly: what will be the most fun for the players?

Then I'd like to see them have the green light to make those changes.

I still disagree, no rebalancing is needed. If I cast my 15K nuke, it's still a 15K nuke, nothing has changed. It's just that I don't have to be targeting the mob. I can target the tank, and the game knows it's a nuke, and sends it to my target's target (the mob). Your paladin spell with a recourse still does what it does (stun & heal, for example). The benefit to you would be the same. Target yourself? Your target gets the stun, you get the heal.

Nothing in my example changes what any of the spells do, just that you don't have to constantly target swap for heals and nukes. EQ2 has done this since day one. It's not rocket science.