hello just wondering how much a innacu inf would do if he speced in slash
then also how much dmg in thrust what would be better for dmg in RvR
so far i have been hearing go slash for best advantage but i dunno
i have alot of mixed feelings on this can anyone help.
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I have met a number of Infy's and most use slash since that seems to do the most damage. However, some use the thrust as a second with a good poison for those times in RvR when they can catch a Heretic like myself from behind for a fast kill and run. The slash is good when you get yourself pinned in and need a way out fast or if the one you want to take out is a little bigger and more armored than say myself. Hope this helps a little.
Hey Steven Meadows here. I have played my Saracen-Inf over 49 days -play time...and I'm RR 6.2 so I kinda know what I'm doin. I also have a Legendary SC so I know most of the formula's and such that go into improving a toon.
Having said this...if you want the most damage for an Infil, go Saracen race, Thrust damage. All things being equal you will do the most damage this way. Slash specced Britains are incorrect when they say they do more damage...it's not true.
I'm not going thru all the formualas, lol I dont' have time. But if you don't take my word for it, check the camelotherald.com. Look up the top Infil's and you'll see Saracen race 80% of the time at the top of the server. If your a Saracen race Infil, you'd be a fool to spec Slash, because your damage would IMMEDIATLY go down.
Having said all of this, I have seen a few Inconuu Infil's out there and they seem to do okay, but again they won't hit as hard as I do. They have very low strength, so slash would be a disaster. It would be a bit better lol, if you just like they way they look, to go thrust...but for most damage go Saracen.
Having said this...if you want the most damage for an Infil, go Saracen race, Thrust damage. All things being equal you will do the most damage this way. Slash specced Britains are incorrect when they say they do more damage...it's not true.
I'm not going thru all the formualas, lol I dont' have time. But if you don't take my word for it, check the camelotherald.com. Look up the top Infil's and you'll see Saracen race 80% of the time at the top of the server. If your a Saracen race Infil, you'd be a fool to spec Slash, because your damage would IMMEDIATLY go down.
Having said all of this, I have seen a few Inconuu Infil's out there and they seem to do okay, but again they won't hit as hard as I do. They have very low strength, so slash would be a disaster. It would be a bit better lol, if you just like they way they look, to go thrust...but for most damage go Saracen.
2 posts
Hmmm well when talking race and spec 10 points here or there doesn't really matter. If you are talking about damage output sure there is a difference. If you are talking about stabbin someones face off in rvr go slash. There is a reason that malice 3 of 3 sells for 15 plat+ and shades of mist 3 of 3 sells for 20 plat+. Malice axe is the weapon to have if you can train slash or crush period. It makes that much of a difference. Everyone has shades of mist and trust me it isn't because it looks pretty or because the stats are that great, its because of the ablative. Not only that, it looks like you are killing people with chopsticks if you go thrust. Slash to look cool :P BTW 80% of high RR inf's are saracen because there was a time when inconnu didn't exist, and probably more importantly being a thrust spec saracen with dragonfang was something to fear. I forget how long the stun used to be with dragonfang, 8secs? something crazy.
I don't want to be too argumentative here, but there's a few things the above post states that aren't true:
First overall thrust does better damage against the other 2 realms. This is because all Hib classes are thurst neutral, but half of them are slash resistant. Mids have only 3 classes that are thrust resistand, but 5 of the classes are slash resistant. So overall, everything being equal you will do more damage in rvr going the thrust damage route.
Secondly it’s kind of funny to indicate that Malice must hit harder since the Malice scroll 3o3 sells for 15 plat on the merchant. Last time I checked the GS scroll 3o3 also sells for about the same. I had an extra one that I just sold at a discount to a buddy of mine for 13 plat.
He is correct that if you are a slash based damage dealer, Malice and Battler are your best choices, but Golden Spear and Croc Tooth dagger are the Thrust counterparts and hit just as hard. Although from the above information you can tell that overall you’ll hit enemies in RVR for more damage by going with thrust based damage (since more enemies have slash resists overall).
Heres the formula for the highest damage style in the Infil’s CS line (which btw is also the highest for any Infil line): pa = 75 + (cs * 9) + base damage. Your max damage is based on your CS level and your base damage level, not your base damage type. So if you want to hit harder as an Infil, go as high as possible in your CS line and your base line for a one or two strike attack. Over time all the attack style should deal damage approximately equal, but most Infil battles only last 15 seconds, so I try to do as much damage as possible in 3 or 4 hits.
Also, keep in mind that although your “base†damage may be based on slash or thrust, most Infil’s do the highest damage using their Crit Strike line. For background information training in CS determines how high your damage can go. Training in the base damage (slash, thrust or crush) only determines your average amount of damage, or in other words the average “varianceâ€. So again my 50 level Infil, RR6.2 only uses his CS line to hit enemies, unless I evade in which I pop out the Dragaon Fang for the 5 or 6-second stun (damn it used to be 9 seconds, the good ol’ days) ïŠ.
Whether you think Slash or thrust damage looks cooler is up to you. What looks best to me is a dead enemy, and all things being equal Thrust is better overall…unless there are specific “style†types you like to use and your play style dictates you use those…my play style dictates I use the CS line in most my attacks, so it doesn’t for me and most the buddies I group with). Again, I’m going strictly on the formulas for damage vs. enemy resists.
Now, let’s talk about why exactly Thrust hits harder than slash. Here’s the base statistics and relative race-stats for building an Infil:
Britain: 60 Str, 60 Dex
Saracen: 50 Str, 80 Dex
Inconnu: 50 Str, 70 Dex
Since slash damage is based only on Str, if you go this route Britain is clearly the best choice. Remember, I’m saying this based on all things being equal for how you create the toon, how many of the free 30 points you spend are equal and that your equipment, artifacts and, armor etc is equal. Thrust damage is based on ½ your str and ½ your dex…so if you go thrust damage then Saracen is best, all other things being equal. In no scenario is an Inconnu best, although when you get to a certain level…maybe it doesn’t matter so much…but again, it does matter a little bit. Lol it matters a lot to me when I die and just a little bit of extra damage would have made the differenceïŠ. Again, I know it’s a bit **** but when I planned out my Infil, I did the research and the above formulas seem to be agreed upon by most beta testers that have done the research themselves.
Comparing your starting races and base damage goes as follows:
Britain’s best max damage would be either slash or thrust at 60 Str and 60 dex. So a Britain’s damage whether he goes Slash or Thrust should be the same, if all other factors are held equal.
Saracen’s best max damage would be Thrust at (50+80)/2 = 65
Inconnu’s best max damage would be Thrust at (50+70)/2=60
So if you just like the toon and want to go Inconnu, you should hit just as hard as a Britain slasher by going thrust. Again I’m keeping all other factors equal for comparative analysis.
Having shown all the above I will still agree that the way you play your toon, the equipment he carries and your skill mean more than the 5 extra points shown above, the points you allot when creating the toon or the race you choose. But if your looking for the mathematical maximum damage, then the Saracen Thrust is statistically the best option.
Lol so why do all the Britain-Slash Infil buddies of mine always tell me they hit harder than I do? Well maybe they do depending if their artifacts are better than mine or if their equipment is better, or if their artifacts are in better condition. I’d say that statistically I should hit slightly harder, but when you throw in the fact that we all have buffbots at RR5…the above post is correct that it doesn’t matter much. Lastly, GS and Croc tooth dagger do exactly the same damage as Battler and Malice, holding all other factors equal. With buffs my Str is at like 300+, dex is at 360+ etc.
First overall thrust does better damage against the other 2 realms. This is because all Hib classes are thurst neutral, but half of them are slash resistant. Mids have only 3 classes that are thrust resistand, but 5 of the classes are slash resistant. So overall, everything being equal you will do more damage in rvr going the thrust damage route.
Secondly it’s kind of funny to indicate that Malice must hit harder since the Malice scroll 3o3 sells for 15 plat on the merchant. Last time I checked the GS scroll 3o3 also sells for about the same. I had an extra one that I just sold at a discount to a buddy of mine for 13 plat.
He is correct that if you are a slash based damage dealer, Malice and Battler are your best choices, but Golden Spear and Croc Tooth dagger are the Thrust counterparts and hit just as hard. Although from the above information you can tell that overall you’ll hit enemies in RVR for more damage by going with thrust based damage (since more enemies have slash resists overall).
Heres the formula for the highest damage style in the Infil’s CS line (which btw is also the highest for any Infil line): pa = 75 + (cs * 9) + base damage. Your max damage is based on your CS level and your base damage level, not your base damage type. So if you want to hit harder as an Infil, go as high as possible in your CS line and your base line for a one or two strike attack. Over time all the attack style should deal damage approximately equal, but most Infil battles only last 15 seconds, so I try to do as much damage as possible in 3 or 4 hits.
Also, keep in mind that although your “base†damage may be based on slash or thrust, most Infil’s do the highest damage using their Crit Strike line. For background information training in CS determines how high your damage can go. Training in the base damage (slash, thrust or crush) only determines your average amount of damage, or in other words the average “varianceâ€. So again my 50 level Infil, RR6.2 only uses his CS line to hit enemies, unless I evade in which I pop out the Dragaon Fang for the 5 or 6-second stun (damn it used to be 9 seconds, the good ol’ days) ïŠ.
Whether you think Slash or thrust damage looks cooler is up to you. What looks best to me is a dead enemy, and all things being equal Thrust is better overall…unless there are specific “style†types you like to use and your play style dictates you use those…my play style dictates I use the CS line in most my attacks, so it doesn’t for me and most the buddies I group with). Again, I’m going strictly on the formulas for damage vs. enemy resists.
Now, let’s talk about why exactly Thrust hits harder than slash. Here’s the base statistics and relative race-stats for building an Infil:
Britain: 60 Str, 60 Dex
Saracen: 50 Str, 80 Dex
Inconnu: 50 Str, 70 Dex
Since slash damage is based only on Str, if you go this route Britain is clearly the best choice. Remember, I’m saying this based on all things being equal for how you create the toon, how many of the free 30 points you spend are equal and that your equipment, artifacts and, armor etc is equal. Thrust damage is based on ½ your str and ½ your dex…so if you go thrust damage then Saracen is best, all other things being equal. In no scenario is an Inconnu best, although when you get to a certain level…maybe it doesn’t matter so much…but again, it does matter a little bit. Lol it matters a lot to me when I die and just a little bit of extra damage would have made the differenceïŠ. Again, I know it’s a bit **** but when I planned out my Infil, I did the research and the above formulas seem to be agreed upon by most beta testers that have done the research themselves.
Comparing your starting races and base damage goes as follows:
Britain’s best max damage would be either slash or thrust at 60 Str and 60 dex. So a Britain’s damage whether he goes Slash or Thrust should be the same, if all other factors are held equal.
Saracen’s best max damage would be Thrust at (50+80)/2 = 65
Inconnu’s best max damage would be Thrust at (50+70)/2=60
So if you just like the toon and want to go Inconnu, you should hit just as hard as a Britain slasher by going thrust. Again I’m keeping all other factors equal for comparative analysis.
Having shown all the above I will still agree that the way you play your toon, the equipment he carries and your skill mean more than the 5 extra points shown above, the points you allot when creating the toon or the race you choose. But if your looking for the mathematical maximum damage, then the Saracen Thrust is statistically the best option.
Lol so why do all the Britain-Slash Infil buddies of mine always tell me they hit harder than I do? Well maybe they do depending if their artifacts are better than mine or if their equipment is better, or if their artifacts are in better condition. I’d say that statistically I should hit slightly harder, but when you throw in the fact that we all have buffbots at RR5…the above post is correct that it doesn’t matter much. Lastly, GS and Croc tooth dagger do exactly the same damage as Battler and Malice, holding all other factors equal. With buffs my Str is at like 300+, dex is at 360+ etc.
Quick update: the str and dex i wrote about earlier was based on your starting race stats. At level 50 your stats naturally increase with Dex 1 point every level after level 5, Quickness every 2nd level and Strength only every 3rd level. So at level 50 your base stats for the races are:
Britain: 75 Str 105 Dex
Inconnu: 65 Str 115 Dex
Saracen: 65 Str 125 Dex
So Britain for Slash would be 75, thrust would be (75+105)/2= 90 base
Inconnu: for slash would be 65, thrust would be (65+115)/2= 90
Saracen for slash would be 65, thrust would be (65+125)/2= 95
So the above would hold true at level 50 as well, again only 5 extra points to base your hits on. However a Saracen-thrust Infil has a 20 point advantage over a Britain-slasher. So from a stats standpoint the Saracen-thrust infil is the clear winner.
And...since your dex is highest with Saracen, you'll evade a bit more...very handy in a close fight since Infil's don't carry shield generally.
Edited, Tue Nov 1 06:55:43 2005 by stevenmeadows
Edited, Wed Nov 2 08:44:37 2005 by stevenmeadows
Britain: 75 Str 105 Dex
Inconnu: 65 Str 115 Dex
Saracen: 65 Str 125 Dex
So Britain for Slash would be 75, thrust would be (75+105)/2= 90 base
Inconnu: for slash would be 65, thrust would be (65+115)/2= 90
Saracen for slash would be 65, thrust would be (65+125)/2= 95
So the above would hold true at level 50 as well, again only 5 extra points to base your hits on. However a Saracen-thrust Infil has a 20 point advantage over a Britain-slasher. So from a stats standpoint the Saracen-thrust infil is the clear winner.
And...since your dex is highest with Saracen, you'll evade a bit more...very handy in a close fight since Infil's don't carry shield generally.
Edited, Tue Nov 1 06:55:43 2005 by stevenmeadows
Edited, Wed Nov 2 08:44:37 2005 by stevenmeadows
Lol another followup:
The Saracen-thrust infil has a 20 point advantage (95-75)over the Britain-slasher, so pick your class and race wisely.
The Saracen-thrust infil has a 20 point advantage (95-75)over the Britain-slasher, so pick your class and race wisely.
Hey, im such a geek that I discussed the above dispute with all my infy buddies last night...and we concluded based on our experience:
That the saracen-thrust infil probably does about 50 dammage more per swing based on what we all had experienced from game play.
However one huge point came up about the slash artifact Malice: at level 10 it has an across the board debuff proc, which in turn transfers those stats to you. So when you are fighting an enemy and the Malice procs your enemy becomes super gimp, while you become super uber...easy victory. The slashers in my group figured that this happens about every 3 fights or so...so it happens fairly often. I bet if you knew the exact formulas involved the extra 50 points per swing (that we figured) probably is exactly equal to that debuff proc every 3 fights. So again go the way you figure will complement your game play and have fun bro.
I guess the only thing that got me a bit hot early in this post is because everyone in the game seems to think that thrusters are gimp when in fact we do just fine and can hold our own. :)
That the saracen-thrust infil probably does about 50 dammage more per swing based on what we all had experienced from game play.
However one huge point came up about the slash artifact Malice: at level 10 it has an across the board debuff proc, which in turn transfers those stats to you. So when you are fighting an enemy and the Malice procs your enemy becomes super gimp, while you become super uber...easy victory. The slashers in my group figured that this happens about every 3 fights or so...so it happens fairly often. I bet if you knew the exact formulas involved the extra 50 points per swing (that we figured) probably is exactly equal to that debuff proc every 3 fights. So again go the way you figure will complement your game play and have fun bro.
I guess the only thing that got me a bit hot early in this post is because everyone in the game seems to think that thrusters are gimp when in fact we do just fine and can hold our own. :)
9 posts
Eh my turn since this thread is next in line, AND someone I know was the last to post. A reply to an earlier post in the line... Malice 3 of 3... well.. malice 3 of 3 is harder to get, you farm purple mobs for malice scrolls, you farm yellow/oj mobs for golden spear scrolls...
A note to stevenmeadowsinf congrats on your sale for GS 3 of 3 for 13 plat bro... but I buy my GS books for 500g off the explorers + 20% markup for being lazy.
As far as Slash or thrust and race? Saracen Thrust is awesome... Briton slash is alright, it does depend on playstyle, however! I will give you some more items to look at as to why saracen thrust is better.
With 50 thrust, you get dragonfang, we all know this. As a saracen, you attain the highest possible dex scores on base.
1. Evade is based off dex.
2. I defeated a norse SB with malice which procced during the fight and I still defeated him.. (he got the jump) so playstyle matters, procs are nice, but they don't win the fight 100%.
3. If you have a horrible computer (as I used to and arguably now do) Dragonfang is almost a must... So many players lag cast or lag run these days, it's almost important to get stun off when possible, especially when you find a bd silly enough to staff you (evade and dragonfang for an easy 5 seconds of not getting lifetapped). Too many mobs pulled? dragonfang. The badguy lagged and you missed your perf, or he parried your CD... Dragonfang. I use dragonfang in 99.8% of my battles, there are significant advantages to going thrust, and if you're going thrust, may as well go the race that gets the most use outta it... saracen.
4. Steven, you didn't consult your inf friend Geotide who is now QQing. <grins>
5. Steven knows what he's talking about incase you didn't gather that from the 45 mile post 3 posts up.
(as to your original question, thrust!!! for God's sake thrust.. but I also suggest deleting the inconnu, guess that's all a matter of choice though!) Go with your playstyle, test it out if you're curious.
-Geotide, I could list a buncha characters but 1 does it.
Edited, Mon Nov 14 04:11:41 2005 by Rogule
A note to stevenmeadowsinf congrats on your sale for GS 3 of 3 for 13 plat bro... but I buy my GS books for 500g off the explorers + 20% markup for being lazy.
As far as Slash or thrust and race? Saracen Thrust is awesome... Briton slash is alright, it does depend on playstyle, however! I will give you some more items to look at as to why saracen thrust is better.
With 50 thrust, you get dragonfang, we all know this. As a saracen, you attain the highest possible dex scores on base.
1. Evade is based off dex.
2. I defeated a norse SB with malice which procced during the fight and I still defeated him.. (he got the jump) so playstyle matters, procs are nice, but they don't win the fight 100%.
3. If you have a horrible computer (as I used to and arguably now do) Dragonfang is almost a must... So many players lag cast or lag run these days, it's almost important to get stun off when possible, especially when you find a bd silly enough to staff you (evade and dragonfang for an easy 5 seconds of not getting lifetapped). Too many mobs pulled? dragonfang. The badguy lagged and you missed your perf, or he parried your CD... Dragonfang. I use dragonfang in 99.8% of my battles, there are significant advantages to going thrust, and if you're going thrust, may as well go the race that gets the most use outta it... saracen.
4. Steven, you didn't consult your inf friend Geotide who is now QQing. <grins>
5. Steven knows what he's talking about incase you didn't gather that from the 45 mile post 3 posts up.
(as to your original question, thrust!!! for God's sake thrust.. but I also suggest deleting the inconnu, guess that's all a matter of choice though!) Go with your playstyle, test it out if you're curious.
-Geotide, I could list a buncha characters but 1 does it.
Edited, Mon Nov 14 04:11:41 2005 by Rogule
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