@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)
The narratives were pretty much on par with one another. A lot of the technological improvements in 7 helped create a sense of atmosphere that wasn't doable with 6. FF6 required you to imagination the level of ruination in the world--honestly, even in Narshe, Zozo, etc., it just didn't compare to the visualization of the Midgar slums. Everything that was darker was notably moreso, in contrast to the chipper protagonism of other games. Seven, at least in the U.S., was also one of the first to legitimately kill off one of your characters. (6's ending was much better though)
The gameplay was far more flexible and better fleshed out in 7 as well. Let's not forget the importance that has in, you know, a video game.
As someone who played them both in their time, I don't even bother trying to compare which was better. I don't think 7 was leaps and bounds above 6, but neither do I think it was a cheap knock off that was more flash than substance.
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I was content to just lurk, but I actually had to create an account just to respond to this...
I won't get into the technological improvements at all, because that's very much up to the individual, though I would say the "visualization" of the Midgar slums pales in comparison to the choice of music, especially compared to Zozo. The themes used in Midgar had a feeling of foreboding and deep sadness that Zozo and Narshe simply didn't have, in large part due to the fact that they weren't the same. Zozo was mostly a joke town, after all, where everyone spoke in lies except for the one guy who said "It's dangerous here."
As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important. Aerith's death has never been special because it was the first, it was special because it was one of the first (scripted) deaths that properly dealt with the loss. When your characters died in FFII, it didn't really matter, because we all knew who was permanent when we picked out names at the beginning of the game. We all knew it was Firion, Guy, Maria and Leon for the endgame, and anyone else was temporary. When Tella died in FFIV, he had already gone past the point of being useful, and was more of a hindrance than anything else. I'd actually argue that point was reached the moment Palom & Porom joined the party, but I digress. When Galuf died, we felt that sense of loss for a brief moment as we remembered how much time and energy we spent on him, training him in various jobs, etc. Then...God, what's her name now? Cara? Krile? Is it back to Kururu? Anyway, she came along and absorbed all the work we'd already done with him and it was back to status quo, just with a female instead of a male.
But when Aerith died? I'd argue most players didn't even realize she could get up to her L4 Limit Break, let alone tried to obtain it. Most of the best stuff for her(the Umbrella, the Great Gospel, etc.) were likely obtained either post-mortum, or right after she left the party. Her passing left a huge gaping hole in the party, and it was felt in the story, even up to the ending.
As for gameplay, I actually would be more likely to give the nod to FFVI than VII, though they both mark a turning point in the series that I absolutely loathed. With FFVI, any character could learn any spell, so the only things that really differentiated them were the weapons they equipped, their special skills(Steal, Bushido, etc.) and the exceedingly rare desperation attack. With FFVII, though, there were only weapons, which were mostly irrelevent aside from appearance(any weapon Cloud got had an equivalent with pretty much the same abilities and Materia slots as everyone else) and their Limit Breaks. Aside from those, every character was essentially the same from a gameplay standpoint. If you swapped out Party A for Party B, you just had to switch their Materia and everything was fine. It felt cheap, and uninteresting compared to the Magicite System, which not only taught characters spells permanently, but also adjusted their stat growth, changing how they performed in combat permanently.
And, now I go back to lurking....
(I love almost every Final Fantasy before XII)
Kachi wrote:
@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)
The narratives were pretty much on par with one another. A lot of the technological improvements in 7 helped create a sense of atmosphere that wasn't doable with 6. FF6 required you to imagination the level of ruination in the world--honestly, even in Narshe, Zozo, etc., it just didn't compare to the visualization of the Midgar slums. Everything that was darker was notably moreso, in contrast to the chipper protagonism of other games. Seven, at least in the U.S., was also one of the first to legitimately kill off one of your characters. (6's ending was much better though)
The gameplay was far more flexible and better fleshed out in 7 as well. Let's not forget the importance that has in, you know, a video game.
As someone who played them both in their time, I don't even bother trying to compare which was better. I don't think 7 was leaps and bounds above 6, but neither do I think it was a cheap knock off that was more flash than substance.
The narratives were pretty much on par with one another. A lot of the technological improvements in 7 helped create a sense of atmosphere that wasn't doable with 6. FF6 required you to imagination the level of ruination in the world--honestly, even in Narshe, Zozo, etc., it just didn't compare to the visualization of the Midgar slums. Everything that was darker was notably moreso, in contrast to the chipper protagonism of other games. Seven, at least in the U.S., was also one of the first to legitimately kill off one of your characters. (6's ending was much better though)
The gameplay was far more flexible and better fleshed out in 7 as well. Let's not forget the importance that has in, you know, a video game.
As someone who played them both in their time, I don't even bother trying to compare which was better. I don't think 7 was leaps and bounds above 6, but neither do I think it was a cheap knock off that was more flash than substance.
I won't get into the technological improvements at all, because that's very much up to the individual, though I would say the "visualization" of the Midgar slums pales in comparison to the choice of music, especially compared to Zozo. The themes used in Midgar had a feeling of foreboding and deep sadness that Zozo and Narshe simply didn't have, in large part due to the fact that they weren't the same. Zozo was mostly a joke town, after all, where everyone spoke in lies except for the one guy who said "It's dangerous here."
As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important. Aerith's death has never been special because it was the first, it was special because it was one of the first (scripted) deaths that properly dealt with the loss. When your characters died in FFII, it didn't really matter, because we all knew who was permanent when we picked out names at the beginning of the game. We all knew it was Firion, Guy, Maria and Leon for the endgame, and anyone else was temporary. When Tella died in FFIV, he had already gone past the point of being useful, and was more of a hindrance than anything else. I'd actually argue that point was reached the moment Palom & Porom joined the party, but I digress. When Galuf died, we felt that sense of loss for a brief moment as we remembered how much time and energy we spent on him, training him in various jobs, etc. Then...God, what's her name now? Cara? Krile? Is it back to Kururu? Anyway, she came along and absorbed all the work we'd already done with him and it was back to status quo, just with a female instead of a male.
But when Aerith died? I'd argue most players didn't even realize she could get up to her L4 Limit Break, let alone tried to obtain it. Most of the best stuff for her(the Umbrella, the Great Gospel, etc.) were likely obtained either post-mortum, or right after she left the party. Her passing left a huge gaping hole in the party, and it was felt in the story, even up to the ending.
As for gameplay, I actually would be more likely to give the nod to FFVI than VII, though they both mark a turning point in the series that I absolutely loathed. With FFVI, any character could learn any spell, so the only things that really differentiated them were the weapons they equipped, their special skills(Steal, Bushido, etc.) and the exceedingly rare desperation attack. With FFVII, though, there were only weapons, which were mostly irrelevent aside from appearance(any weapon Cloud got had an equivalent with pretty much the same abilities and Materia slots as everyone else) and their Limit Breaks. Aside from those, every character was essentially the same from a gameplay standpoint. If you swapped out Party A for Party B, you just had to switch their Materia and everything was fine. It felt cheap, and uninteresting compared to the Magicite System, which not only taught characters spells permanently, but also adjusted their stat growth, changing how they performed in combat permanently.
And, now I go back to lurking....
(I love almost every Final Fantasy before XII)
If the first FF you played was X, then THAT my friend is why you can never understand. The earlier FFs (and FF XII) in my opinion were simple works of genius (for their time.) It's easy to take a big dump on IV,V,VI,VII,IX never having played them in their time perspective. However, if the first you played was say... IV, then and only then would you understand.
Squaresoft was plain and simply an innovator back in it's day. Their games were unrivaled. Now they simply don't have that track record anymore. Can they get it back? I think so. Will they? I'll give them a fair shot at it... certainly not a 100% chance of getting back on top.
Squaresoft was plain and simply an innovator back in it's day. Their games were unrivaled. Now they simply don't have that track record anymore. Can they get it back? I think so. Will they? I'll give them a fair shot at it... certainly not a 100% chance of getting back on top.
IvanStine207 wrote:
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/ybbqrs/gametrailers-com-memo-to-square-enix
After watching the video in the link above, I just rolled my eyes. If you did not watch the video it was basically old fans complaining about Final Fantasy games like XIII and you can presume they wish things were as great as VII. This all seems like game politics to me and in real politics I am conservative but in terms of game politics, when it comes to game play difficulty I lean farther toward the hardcore player direction but some might paint me as a liberal with other aspects which might qualify me as a moderate and I don't like being moderate xD.
Final Fantasy X was the first game I played from the Final Fantasy series and I really liked most of the games aspects except Blitzball because I sucked at it. I liked the music, story, characters, graphics, monsters, environments, and gameplay. I played it when I was in elementary school so I never beaten it for a while in fact I would sometimes just stop playing it for months and come back to it. Even today I would replay it again and I can't wait till the updated version comes out. I also played X-2 but I haven't beaten it yet. The main difference I noticed was that the gameplay was different and the game seemed to have more of a feminine edge which I didn't mind.
When I got FF XII, it was interesting at first but it didn't seem as exciting as X and the gameplay was difficult so I quit on it a long time ago. If I had it today, I would probably just play for the sake of beating it but I would probably use guides. Overall it isn't one of my favorites.
As for the XIII series, I liked most aspects of it just like I did with FF X. FF XIII 1 and 2 aswell as Lightning Returns have received the most criticism from Final Fantasy fans because of its gameplay and difficulty. The games to me were somewhat challenging to me but I did beat it quicker than FFX. The only difficulty I ever really met in XIII was near the end where I couldn't get passed certain trash mobs. I finished the game later on. As for XIII-2, I got lost with the time travel and couldn't progress through the main story line and I wasn't much of a fan of its music nor its two players and 1 Pokemon battle team lol. Now that I've beaten both, I'm now looking forward for Lightning Returns
I've never played any Final Fantasy game before 10 so that makes me part of the new crowd for Square Enix. I can see how some of the older players have problems with this the recent games, especially 13, because I too have played a game that has been out for a considerate amount of time. That game is World of Warcraft which I played for more than five years and I think its going down the toilet because Blizzard is catering to the casual players, the story isn't impressive anymore, and it lost its touch. I've actually stopped playing it and am waiting for FF XIV ARR to come out and be the new MMO I play because it seems promising with just about every aspect I care about in a game. As for WOW, I think it will be out for a while even though I sometimes think it's reaching its end time. I think I've simply just lost interest of playing it.
When it comes to the Final Fantasy games before FFX, I think I would give them a try if ever having the opportunity. The only thing that makes me move away from those games are the players that played them and heavily label these games as the worst FF games ever. Their criticism makes me think that the FF games that came out around my generation's times are the worst ever. These critics seem to love FF VII a lot and even judge FF XIV ARR which I think has potential to be a great game. I'm not asking for or saying that the old generation players to come together with the newer generation players, I just think its very annoying. The whole point of this forum post is purely expression and I welcome discussion on other similar or different views. :)
After watching the video in the link above, I just rolled my eyes. If you did not watch the video it was basically old fans complaining about Final Fantasy games like XIII and you can presume they wish things were as great as VII. This all seems like game politics to me and in real politics I am conservative but in terms of game politics, when it comes to game play difficulty I lean farther toward the hardcore player direction but some might paint me as a liberal with other aspects which might qualify me as a moderate and I don't like being moderate xD.
Final Fantasy X was the first game I played from the Final Fantasy series and I really liked most of the games aspects except Blitzball because I sucked at it. I liked the music, story, characters, graphics, monsters, environments, and gameplay. I played it when I was in elementary school so I never beaten it for a while in fact I would sometimes just stop playing it for months and come back to it. Even today I would replay it again and I can't wait till the updated version comes out. I also played X-2 but I haven't beaten it yet. The main difference I noticed was that the gameplay was different and the game seemed to have more of a feminine edge which I didn't mind.
When I got FF XII, it was interesting at first but it didn't seem as exciting as X and the gameplay was difficult so I quit on it a long time ago. If I had it today, I would probably just play for the sake of beating it but I would probably use guides. Overall it isn't one of my favorites.
As for the XIII series, I liked most aspects of it just like I did with FF X. FF XIII 1 and 2 aswell as Lightning Returns have received the most criticism from Final Fantasy fans because of its gameplay and difficulty. The games to me were somewhat challenging to me but I did beat it quicker than FFX. The only difficulty I ever really met in XIII was near the end where I couldn't get passed certain trash mobs. I finished the game later on. As for XIII-2, I got lost with the time travel and couldn't progress through the main story line and I wasn't much of a fan of its music nor its two players and 1 Pokemon battle team lol. Now that I've beaten both, I'm now looking forward for Lightning Returns
I've never played any Final Fantasy game before 10 so that makes me part of the new crowd for Square Enix. I can see how some of the older players have problems with this the recent games, especially 13, because I too have played a game that has been out for a considerate amount of time. That game is World of Warcraft which I played for more than five years and I think its going down the toilet because Blizzard is catering to the casual players, the story isn't impressive anymore, and it lost its touch. I've actually stopped playing it and am waiting for FF XIV ARR to come out and be the new MMO I play because it seems promising with just about every aspect I care about in a game. As for WOW, I think it will be out for a while even though I sometimes think it's reaching its end time. I think I've simply just lost interest of playing it.
When it comes to the Final Fantasy games before FFX, I think I would give them a try if ever having the opportunity. The only thing that makes me move away from those games are the players that played them and heavily label these games as the worst FF games ever. Their criticism makes me think that the FF games that came out around my generation's times are the worst ever. These critics seem to love FF VII a lot and even judge FF XIV ARR which I think has potential to be a great game. I'm not asking for or saying that the old generation players to come together with the newer generation players, I just think its very annoying. The whole point of this forum post is purely expression and I welcome discussion on other similar or different views. :)
flamemasterelan wrote:
I was content to just lurk, but I actually had to create an account just to respond to this...
[quote=Kachi]@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)
As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important.
[quote=Kachi]@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)
As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important.
Hey don't forget Palum and Porum. When I first played I spent ridiculous quantities of time naively attempting to restore them!
For me, FFIV undermined character loss by constantly having character's "sacrifice" themselves only to come back in the end. I couldn't care about any of their deaths because the execution set up the expectation that they would come back, and they did.
Granted, I probably would have felt the same way about FFVII if not for the baffling decision to release the game without adding the option to restore her to life. Probably made the game stronger, but still, baffling.
Granted, I probably would have felt the same way about FFVII if not for the baffling decision to release the game without adding the option to restore her to life. Probably made the game stronger, but still, baffling.
Well for starters I think Final Fantasy games are the best out there in when it comes to RPGs . I would like to see the demographics of the FF fanbase to see how much of old fans remain. The fact of the matter is this is just simply an old VS new debate and thst isn't really significant. All game series have their rise and fall time periods and sometimes it takes a bit of falling to rise up. Also do not compare me to casuals because I obviously have differences. When I find a game I like, usually I like and appreciate most of its aspects while most casuals only care about KILL KILL KILL factor of the game like Call of Duty and try to get to the highest level possible in the quickest way. When it comes to raiding, I can progress through bosses that casuals get stuck on when I'm on a good team and I study the boss beforehand. Most casuals only care about getting gear to dress their barbie doll and complain when the game is to hard for them. I'd prefer the older experience I had in WOW during Vanilla instead since there was more risk and reward in your leveling progression and not just anyone could dov the 40 man raids that did not have bosses just laying down and handing out free loot. WOW today would start losing money if they implimented a high risk and reward system like permadeath and lootable corpses which FF games dont seem to have like Ulitima had which my Dad considers is the best RPG and never did hear of FF series until X came out. Blizzard would aldo start losing money if they didn't let casual players to have the capability to solo round up 4-7 mobs with ease. Final Fantasy games are more difficult than other games and even the ones that you think suck.
Xenoblade Chronicles, best RPG to come out in the last 10 years imo. Went old school, great graphics for the Wii but sub par for any other next gen machine. Did anyone mind? Nope, why? Solid story and fun gameplay, but most importantly, solid story. SE just needs to take a page from Monolith on that one. It was the first RPG in years to make me want to play every day for multi hour sessions.
I don't know when SE is going to learn that shiny new graphics aren't necessary for success. Hell you still have XI that's outdated to no end keeping people around, they obviously do not care that the game is not on par with today's graphics. And why they won't just remake FFVII or Chrono Trigger or hell a sequel to Chrono Trigger is beyond me. Love or hate FFVII, a remake would sell no matter what you thought about it.
I don't know when SE is going to learn that shiny new graphics aren't necessary for success. Hell you still have XI that's outdated to no end keeping people around, they obviously do not care that the game is not on par with today's graphics. And why they won't just remake FFVII or Chrono Trigger or hell a sequel to Chrono Trigger is beyond me. Love or hate FFVII, a remake would sell no matter what you thought about it.
IvanStine207 wrote:
Well for starters I think Final Fantasy games are the best out there in when it comes to RPGs . I would like to see the demographics of the FF fanbase to see how much of old fans remain. The fact of the matter is this is just simply an old VS new debate and thst isn't really significant. All game series have their rise and fall time periods and sometimes it takes a bit of falling to rise up. Also do not compare me to casuals because I obviously have differences. When I find a game I like, usually I like and appreciate most of its aspects while most casuals only care about KILL KILL KILL factor of the game like Call of Duty and try to get to the highest level possible in the quickest way. When it comes to raiding, I can progress through bosses that casuals get stuck on when I'm on a good team and I study the boss beforehand. Most casuals only care about getting gear to dress their barbie doll and complain when the game is to hard for them. I'd prefer the older experience I had in WOW during Vanilla instead since there was more risk and reward in your leveling progression and not just anyone could dov the 40 man raids that did not have bosses just laying down and handing out free loot. WOW today would start losing money if they implimented a high risk and reward system like permadeath and lootable corpses which FF games dont seem to have like Ulitima had which my Dad considers is the best RPG and never did hear of FF series until X came out. Blizzard would aldo start losing money if they didn't let casual players to have the capability to solo round up 4-7 mobs with ease. Final Fantasy games are more difficult than other games and even the ones that you think suck.
So not only are you a FF Noob! But you are an MMO Noob aswell :/
Final Fantasy has never been Hard! Is the mainstream RPG out of all RPG's, is the COD of RPG! In suikoden II there is a fight mid game vs Luca Blight that is the equivalent of a final fight in FF universe, you need 3 teams, to beat the guy, and he does not holds back, Star ocean 2 was harder than most Final Fantasys, now i am not saying they are the easiest games out there, but to call them hard, is well kinda Silly!
Also on the aerith death, i cannot even believe somebody said that in the US it was a first.... IV released in USA, and there was main character death in V too, they where not a first for SE, let alone for the USA market, did nobody ever played Snes ? Lufia II was released in the USA, and it had a main character die, Selan died in that game :)
Also WOW would lose money if the implement a high risk and reward system like perma death, because that is a stupid design choise.
Lol dude I'm not saying every single part of any FF game is hard but the games are definitely more challenging than most RPGs like Ni No Kuni for example. As for WOW, I've made more progression in raiding than most casual players and I think its stupid for you to believe that I'm noobish just because I care about other game content besides end game. Oh btw perma death would motivate players to be more skilled and it was an interesting game mechanic in Ulitima and I bet you would the noob whining about it. I'm not suggesting that permadeath is the only game mechanic of high risk and reward but I do think that it would seperate hardcore games and casual ones. What is the difference between a final fantasy game with its fan base and a football game with its fans, besides the obvious>.> There is no high risk or reward for the fans who nowadays just want a game that can only progress forward or up without the risk of having to build ones self up again.
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 12:35pm by IvanStine207
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 12:35pm by IvanStine207
Quote:
Also on the aerith death, i cannot even believe somebody said that in the US it was a first.... IV released in USA, and there was main character death in V too, they where not a first for SE, let alone for the USA market, did nobody ever played Snes ? Lufia II was released in the USA, and it had a main character die, Selan died in that game :)
I said it was among the first for the U.S. audience. FFV didn't release until after VII in the U.S., and I've already explained how I feel about the deaths in IV.
I couldn't get into Lufia 2, so can't comment there.
There's also a big difference between O NOEZ WE KILLED YOUR CHARACTER and a genuinely meaningful or surprising death.
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 9:48am by Kachi
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Also on the aerith death, i cannot even believe somebody said that in the US it was a first.... IV released in USA, and there was main character death in V too, they where not a first for SE, let alone for the USA market, did nobody ever played Snes ? Lufia II was released in the USA, and it had a main character die, Selan died in that game :)
I said it was among the first for the U.S. audience. FFV didn't release until after VII in the U.S., and I've already explained how I feel about the deaths in IV.
I couldn't get into Lufia 2, so can't comment there.
There's also a big difference between O NOEZ WE KILLED YOUR CHARACTER and a genuinely meaningful or surprising death.
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 9:48am by Kachi
Ohh but Kachi you should perhaps try again (to get into it that is)! Lufia 2 is one of the great RPGs to grace the SNES... Amazing story in my opinion.
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 1:19pm by je355804
IvanStine207 wrote:
Lol dude I'm not saying every single part of any FF game is hard but the games are definitely more challenging than most RPGs like Ni No Kuni for example. As for WOW, I've made more progression in raiding than most casual players and I think its stupid for you to believe that I'm noobish just because I care about other game content besides end game. Oh btw perma death would motivate players to be more skilled and it was an interesting game mechanic in Ulitima and I bet you would the noob whining about it. I'm not suggesting that permadeath is the only game mechanic of high risk and reward but I do think that it would seperate hardcore games and casual ones. What is the difference between a final fantasy game with its fan base and a football game with its fans, besides the obvious>.> There is no high risk or reward for the fans who nowadays just want a game that can only progress forward or up without the risk of having to build ones self up again.
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 12:35pm by IvanStine207
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 12:35pm by IvanStine207
Dragon quest is and will always be harder than Final Fantasy, in fact Final Fantasy was originally a watered down version of Dragon Quest :) In final fantasy you usually are the avarage level of the area you are in because you level thru progression, why do you think there are "Low level runs" of every single RPG out there ? Because they are Hard ? And you have made more progress than most casuals based on what ? What have you cleared ? NAX 40 ? C-thun ? Sunwell ? Ulduar in Hardmode ? ICC in hardmode 25 ?
Perma death does not motivate players to be more skilled, it makes them be more carefull, and rely on cookie cutter builds that deal the most DPS per second and group configurations that would have the highest % of victory, also it would not work, because MMO and the companys that actually invest money to bring those games to us, are interested in making money, i know is a foreing concept around here, but companys do not make games, because they love us and they like ponys, they make games because they like money, and perma death would alianate 99.9% of the community, what is the point of a MMO if i am only playing with 3 other people ?
As for the aerith death thing, again it was not a first, nor was a first in the industry, nor was a first for the company, square was killing characters since the nes, sure for people who never played the earlier games, aerith death would have been a memorable moment, but not to me, it was buissness as usual, the only difference is what this time you got to see it in CG, which to me is not all that impressive, i am not a graphic *****, i am far more interested in context, than in how something looks, that is why i like Kefka as a villain more than sephiroth, kefka had substance, sephiroth was a watered down version of kefka, with prettier graphics. Just like lighting is female copy of cloud, with prettier graphics but no substance, outside of sazh(Wtf the name of the guy with the chocobo in the head) every single character in XIII was lackluster.
Oh i just remembered another death, Breath of Fire II Tigras Death! Also ogre battle, and ogre battle tactics killed main characteres left and right, well before the psx era.
2 posts
je355804 wrote:
flamemasterelan wrote:
I was content to just lurk, but I actually had to create an account just to respond to this...
[quote=Kachi]@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)
As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important.
[quote=Kachi]@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)
As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important.
Hey don't forget Palum and Porum. When I first played I spent ridiculous quantities of time naively attempting to restore them!
Well, I did brush over Palom & Porom, but like he said, FFIV did have a revolving door of sacrifice, 90% of which were overturned by the end of the game. I do agree that their sacrifices were powerful, though(I personally loved how the FFIV DS Remake handled every sacrifice), but at the end of the day they were never dead, the game always gave you hope that they'd be restored with the item selection(I always thought it would be part of the main quest, but it was handled off-screen).
You just clarified my sarcastic remark to someone else earliar about gaming businesses wanting to make and I'm still waiting for demographics of the current FF fanbase. Square Enix must think its going to make money with Lightning Returns even old fans thinks its going to suck. As for my progression in WoW, I cleared just about everything you listed except ICC. As for cata raids I started raiding near the beggining of the last patch because I that was around the time that I started playing and I noticed mosr people didn't any of the raids before DS except BH and FL since you could easily get epics from heroics. I guess that was just because Cata was reaching its end but the raid progression ladder seemed weakened. Permadeath was just an idea that i got from the game that first started major mmos, Ultima. This game had a good high risk and reward mechanic that most mmos dont have today because the casuals would cry and complain that the game was unfair and competition was ruining everything.
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 3:13pm by IvanStine207
Edited, Apr 13th 2013 3:13pm by IvanStine207
I don't understand how people can compare the various games in the series. It has spanned almost 3 decades and has been released on various platforms. Over all the years, even the player base has changed. Those of us who started playing during the NES were just kids then, we've grown and our tastes have changed. We're not the same as that kid who would blow into the cartridge to get it to work. As the games in the series progress you might be drawn to some more than others on simply what you were into at any given stage of your life.
Furthermore, because there's been so many games in the series, it's inevitable that they would change the combat system, the stories, the characters, the abilities, etc. Otherwise it would seem like the same game over and over again.
Frankly, I didn't think FF7 was that great, but then again I didn't really get into it when it was released as I was starting high school and my focus was elsewhere, it sort of passed me by. However, as I got older and balanced a social life, work, and school, I was able to get some game nights in and enthralled myself in FFIX, without a doubt my favorite of the series, because of the effort and time I put into it.
Basically, I don't think you can really compare the series as a whole from start to finish, and it would be stupid too in my opinion.
Furthermore, because there's been so many games in the series, it's inevitable that they would change the combat system, the stories, the characters, the abilities, etc. Otherwise it would seem like the same game over and over again.
Frankly, I didn't think FF7 was that great, but then again I didn't really get into it when it was released as I was starting high school and my focus was elsewhere, it sort of passed me by. However, as I got older and balanced a social life, work, and school, I was able to get some game nights in and enthralled myself in FFIX, without a doubt my favorite of the series, because of the effort and time I put into it.
Basically, I don't think you can really compare the series as a whole from start to finish, and it would be stupid too in my opinion.
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I don't understand how people can compare the various games in the series. It has spanned almost 3 decades and has been released on various platforms. Over all the years, even the player base has changed. Those of us who started playing during the NES were just kids then, we've grown and our tastes have changed. We're not the same as that kid who would blow into the cartridge to get it to work. As the games in the series progress you might be drawn to some more than others on simply what you were into at any given stage of your life.
Based on that logic, you can never compare things across a span of time. Comparing cars from the 80s to cars from the 2010s is also unacceptable?
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Furthermore, because there's been so many games in the series, it's inevitable that they would change the combat system, the stories, the characters, the abilities, etc. Otherwise it would seem like the same game over and over again.
Very true. I think the objection though is that SE has shifted their focus from substance to flash. We'd just like the substance back please.
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Basically, I don't think you can really compare the series as a whole from start to finish, and it would be stupid too in my opinion.
I disagree.
I think the only way you CAN track the development of the Final Fantasy series is over a span of years but with the correct frame of reference.
I've made no secret about Final Fantasy 6 being my favorite in the series and definitely on my list for greatest RPGs ever made. I actually think FF7 struck the best balance between story and technical ability. Square had a lot of new toys at their disposal, and they used them. But even with all the toys they told a good story, and told it well. Since then though, I think the balance has been off, and I think it's only gotten worse the further along in the series you go all the way up to 13 which is virtually ALL flash and just enough game to make it not seem like a tech demo.
FF1 was the first I ever played, FF4 was the first I was capable of actually understanding, and FF6 was my favorite. 7, 8 and 9 were fine even though 8's story was needlessly perverse, and 9 had one of the stupidest final bosses I've ever seen.
I've been a gamer for about 25 years, I've grown up with Final Fantasy. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to use that experience to talk about how the series has progressed over the years.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I don't understand how people can compare the various games in the series. It has spanned almost 3 decades and has been released on various platforms. Over all the years, even the player base has changed. Those of us who started playing during the NES were just kids then, we've grown and our tastes have changed. We're not the same as that kid who would blow into the cartridge to get it to work. As the games in the series progress you might be drawn to some more than others on simply what you were into at any given stage of your life.
Based on that logic, you can never compare things across a span of time. Comparing cars from the 80s to cars from the 2010s is also unacceptable?
Well, what are you comparing? The design, performance, features, mileage, or the company's sales of said model? Even cars have body redesigns ever few years. Look at how sports have also evolved. You can compare the rules from various generations but you can't compare the players because although the sport is the same the athlete isn't.
I just feel that comparing an 8bit game to a 16, 32, 64, and so on is hard for the simple reason that as our platforms have improved so have the offerings of the game and what's it's capable of.
It's complicated. Perhaps keep the comparisons to titles that are on the same platform generation.
Basically, be careful in what you compare. For lack of a better statement.
I second Lufia II. The ending of that game can pull many a heart-strings.
The allure of FF games to me was never their difficulty. Some puzzles were hard, some fights were annoyingly hard, but the games themselves were meant to be playable by adolescents.
What FF games promised and what made them above average was the amazing amount of work put into world building and storytelling. A FF game's rules set makes the rules of a D&D handbook look slender. Each world has its own rules, its own laws, its own logic. Rikku's limit break in X and its hundreds of combinations was quite possibly my favorite random little tidbit from any of the games - it was fun because you never knew what you'd get, and it turns out that stuff like the Potato Masher did massive damage.
What FF games promised and what made them above average was the amazing amount of work put into world building and storytelling. A FF game's rules set makes the rules of a D&D handbook look slender. Each world has its own rules, its own laws, its own logic. Rikku's limit break in X and its hundreds of combinations was quite possibly my favorite random little tidbit from any of the games - it was fun because you never knew what you'd get, and it turns out that stuff like the Potato Masher did massive damage.
I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?
All Final Fantasy games, aside from the obvious examples of X-II and such, are separate in terms of the stories, characters, and in-world rules.
For the most part, they have common thematic and symbolic connections, but "A" in FFVI doesn't equal "A" in FFVIII or "A" in FFXIV. Think along the lines of this; William Gibson has written numerous cyberpunk novels with common themes and imagery, but unless he explicitly says so they aren't happening concurrently.
For the most part, they have common thematic and symbolic connections, but "A" in FFVI doesn't equal "A" in FFVIII or "A" in FFXIV. Think along the lines of this; William Gibson has written numerous cyberpunk novels with common themes and imagery, but unless he explicitly says so they aren't happening concurrently.
IvanStine207 wrote:
I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?
Love me some IX. I'm not a good one to ask though, I love them all. People have ones they really dislike but I've enjoyed every single one in some way or another. I'm a cheap date I know
Edited, Apr 14th 2013 8:01pm by Wint
IvanStine207 wrote:
I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?
IX is a solid title, i enjoy playing the first CD for reasons that baffle me still, not that the other ones are lacking, but the mist continent just has something that i really enjoy XD!
You should try VI-VII-VIII if you liked those, try IV-V and then X or XII. Or just try them all XD!
[quote]
Love me some IX. I'm not a good one to ask though, I love them all. People have ones they really dislike but I've enjoyed every single one in some way or another. I'm a cheap date I know
ff9 was awesome. I liked how 9 went back to it's roots and created an atmosphere reminiscent of older titles. Which is why i probably liked it 6 is my favorite. I have to say though 9 gave me the biggest **** off ever when my run for excalibur 2 ended when i realized i miscalculated my time and missed it by 5 minutes. that was A LOT of time put into that 12 hour run. One day excalibur 2 one day...
Edited, Apr 14th 2013 11:17pm by Keysofgaruda
Wint wrote:
IvanStine207 wrote:
I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?
Love me some IX. I'm not a good one to ask though, I love them all. People have ones they really dislike but I've enjoyed every single one in some way or another. I'm a cheap date I know
ff9 was awesome. I liked how 9 went back to it's roots and created an atmosphere reminiscent of older titles. Which is why i probably liked it 6 is my favorite. I have to say though 9 gave me the biggest **** off ever when my run for excalibur 2 ended when i realized i miscalculated my time and missed it by 5 minutes. that was A LOT of time put into that 12 hour run. One day excalibur 2 one day...
Edited, Apr 14th 2013 11:17pm by Keysofgaruda
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