Crafting in FFXIVFollow

XI's task force bragged impressive numbers, but the best thing they did was add aggressive high level goblins to roam the popular low-level fishing spots, where level 20 rmts would regularly bot fish.

I'll never forget the pictures of the day this was added, with PILEs of dead bodies in the Valkrum Dunes water.

Botting isn't difficult to curtail if you simply don't add passive/inactive progression systems. A simple rule for the designer: If it's so easy that a bot can do it repeatedly, it's probably too boring for a player to do it repeatedly! You can still run into problems with active RMT, those who actually play the game, and that's a problem that can ultimately only be solved by undermining the value of the player economy. The extent to which you are willing to do that should depend on the degree to which active RMT are impacting other players, which is, again, a result of design, usually representing resource competition or artificial scarcity.

Crafting needs to stay relevant all the way to the end or it doesn't have a point. It'll be a let down if end game PVE content make all of your crafts worthless causing raiding to be required if you want your character to be able to do anything.

I honestly wouldn't hold my breath for them to expect crafting/gathering to be anymore than a way to supply yourself materials and be a way to make money. I say this because Yoshi has mentioned that he plans on making most content be for battle classes and has since stated that we wont be able to create new characters with a starting class outside the battle classes.

In theory, but in practice, eh, not really. The problem is that humans are pattern-recognition machines. We're (mostly) good at it. And that pattern-recognition is also the source of the feedback loops which allow us to have fun. Most any fun experience breaks down into this:

I want -that-. I will do -this-, and see if I can get -that-. Usually when I do -this-, I get the -that- I wanted. But sometimes, I don't! But if I keep trying, I will get -that-!

The fun stems from the things that break from the pattern--the unexpected things that we don't fully understand. It's us trying to get better at getting "that" by uncovering the patterns. As a result, we feel that we are earning, growing, and accomplishing.

When things are too predictable, they're almost guaranteed to be boring (exception: if the person is "vegging out"). If we weren't so good at pattern-recognition, then sure, I could throw the ball a million times and you'd have nearly just as much fun fetching it every time. But for it to be fun in its own right, it needs to have an appropriate measure of complexity, challenge, and uncertainty. Now, since we're talking about features that employ simple decision-making within a relatively narrow scope of possibilities, that's just not going to happen for most people.

And I hate to say it, but that's sort of the way it goes with most entertainment: the less skilled or intelligent you are, the more easily you can enjoy it. This is why children are always so excited about life in our world initially, and why they quickly become bored by it as they age. As you master the consumption of entertainment, it becomes less and less fun in its own right. For a system to be constantly fun in its own right, it needs to scale in difficulty and complexity as you master it. Of course, most systems in life are utilitarian, not necessarily intended to entertain.

So in theory, it could be fun in its own right, but that would require a far more sophisticated system than we'll see in MMO crafting/gathering for a long time.

Fun is merely a subset of motivation: intrinsic motivation reflects fun, while extrinsic motivation reflects work. But at a more discrete level, the only difference between the two is the person's appraisal of what they're doing (how much they want the result). So while it may not seem intuitive, conceptually the similarities between the two are critically important: even play is predicated upon perceived rewards. At a conceptual level, the "why" is the same whether the act is utilitarian or escapist: to get "that." So while there are differences between work and play, there are more similarities.

The distinction is there, however. Play and fun involve a process of discovery which depends upon elements of uncertainty. That's why I included terms like "usually and sometimes." In work, positive results often come easily, predictably, and consistently. But in spite of this, work is (definitively) not fun. Also, note that the rules are not always clearer and simpler: sometimes it is quite the opposite. I think I made all this pretty clear in the paragraphs following the quote.

This is my area of expertise, btw. My trying to make the concepts accessible doesn't reflect a lack of understanding.

Probably because if you find the right niche, crafting can be more profitable than anything else. Case in point, FFXI. There were maxed leatherworkers, goldsmiths, woodworkers, etc. who could basically corner the market because getting a craft to 100 was such an incredible timesink. However, if you actually got to that holy grail (100+6), the return on your investment was pretty amazing. In XI, basically all of the wealthiest people in-game were crafters who had either cornered a market, or developed an understanding with equal level crafters to set a certain price on goods and still make a killing. It wasn't uncommon for top crafters in XI to have excess of 100m gil. That amount was unheard of for a non-crafter. So while the initial grind was unbelievably intimidating, the end result was very lucrative for the savvy crafter. Many other mmo's have had similar results.