Is this really the extent of XIV endgame?Follow

I've heard that endgame in 1.0 was challenging and showed a lot of promise. Some guy was bashing other MMOs saying that the bosses in games like WoW and Rift were simple and the game was made for kids compared to the "tactical fights" in FF MMOs. . He then provided this link ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unpWwn00mJs

It's apparently the Ifrit fight. Has this dude played any other games? What the hell kind of a boss fight is that? That is tactical?

I'm really looking forward to ARR regardless for many other reasons. In fact, I don't really expect much of an endgame out of it. I just want to enjoy Eorzea and goof around really, but these polarized FF nuts really need to get their heads out of their asses and take a look around once in a while.

*Just to clarify, I am in no way putting down anyone's accomplishments in 1.0, nor am I putting the fight down. I'm just looking for feedback on what the legacy players view as challenging and/or tactical.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 2:30am by Transmigration

Edited, Jun 20th 2013 9:39am by Wint Lock Thread: Off topic

Ifrit is a level 30 fight, heres the video of 2.0 at E3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPn6nDYcwcw

There are ff fanboys by the thousands who don't realize.
..and it doesn't even compute....that the extremes of rift and wow endgame tore ffxi's up. 1.0 was no. Rift infernal dawn. No.

It'll be a solid vanilla endgame. Working on relics. Marching up the tower and lair. Then the 2nd phase of the lair and relic upgrade quests eventually up there ...

Yoshida is a mmo junkie. DaoC. WoW. FFXI. Rift. He plays these games. It'll be there.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 2:45am by benjjjamin

I do hope you're right Ben. Yoshi has said that he's played a lot of MMOs and loves PvP and raiding. They're going to have to come up with some far more difficult stuff to compete with the market.

Well Ifrit extreme could tear you a new ******* if that makes anyone feel better ;)

I never did beat that. Garuda was a !@#$ as well. Unless you had rock solid DPS you chances of winning dropped very fast. Keep in mind these relic fights are still in there but the primals will exist differently and should be harder because the Free Company that beats a primal gets to call it on the battle field for a basic 1 hit KO. PvP for sure; but not sure on PvE.

I know when someone summon's the primal (you have a set time to do so) the entire sky changes color around the entire world to let everyone know its been summoned.

While that was very eloquently expressed, Fox, I feel like you're looking past the point of my inquiry. That is just one example of some dodo throwing out misinformation about other games and using some half-assed fight to exemplify the glory of XIV raiding. My fear is that potential future challenge will be missed out on due to the community not asking for it and being complacent with weak endgame structure.

The video is called "solo whm heal".. why on earth would you ever need more than one? In both videos, 1.0 and 2.0, the only life bar that ever moved (pre enrage timer) was the tanks.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 3:05am by Transmigration

Yes, I am a big fan of FF MMO End game. No I do not care for Rift, WoW type end game. I have completed several end game dungeons in both WoW and Rift. I ran a raiding guild in Rift, and the hardest thing about raiding, is finding 10-20 morons that know how to pay attention.

The ifrit fight, Garuda, Good King Moogle, those were all really hard, but again, a lot of it rested on listening and paying attention. It's amazing how hard that really is.

Edit: Although Rift had/has a MUCH better raiding scene then world of warcraft. Difficulty wise. Rift was a lot harder in other ways until a certain crowd kinda destroyed that as well. (My opinion)

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 3:38am by Failsociety

As with all End Game Raids Bosses, they have special mechanics. When I stated it was amazing that it was hard, it was more of finding people that could actually follow directions and pay attention to the fight. But you have to realize of course all my experience comes from v1.0 and seeing how dungeons alone have become more Themepark like, I wouldn't be surprised if these fights became that way too. An Example would be Ifrit.

Ideally the Tank would tank against the far northern part of the circle of flame due to Ifrit's knockback. Depending on how you were doing the fight or how well your DD we geared, people would use WS combo's to break off a horn or two which would slow down Ifrits Regenration as well as make the fight much easier. The fight consisted of people having to be aware of cracks and explosions and not getting caught in animation lock. Not to mention the server lag which you would be off the cracks by a mile, yet still get slammed by the damage. Then you'd have the Nails that you'd have to try and take down as fast as possible to lesson the damage of Ifrits Hellfire, as well as using key abilities to help your team take the least damage possible. In most cases this is where wipes came from, in my experience as it is often hard to recover from. Hellfire packed a punch.

Each of the Primal Fights had their own little quirks. Like with Garuda and saving the pillars, and good king moogle, by downing the moogles in the best order. It's really all artifical hardness and depends of course on gear checks, Jobs and people listening paying attention. In some cases it seemed no matter how well your communications were, you just weren't going to win. I would suggest looking over some Youtube v1 videos and deciding for yourself, but remember these were v1 fights and in a lot of ways severly flawed due to sever limitations.

I'm sorry if this wasn't exactly what you were looking for, but I am exhausted. Also these were just primal battles. There were actually some pretty hard End Game Dungeons as well. I'd wait on your judgment until trying it yourself. If the end game isn't for you, in my personal opinion there is much more then just "End Game".

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 4:04am by Failsociety

Sadly it's not as black and white as that, but just like any Boss fight in any concurrent MMO that indeed is the basis. But to me the big difference is how forgiven your mistakes can be, and tbh imo, there wasn't much room for mistakes in any of those fights. I can almost promise however that End Game v2 is not the same as End Game v1.

He is only limited by the fans of this game to be honest. They may not let him do what he truly wants because it may not be "final fantasy." The ffxi players are a huge liability to be honest. They want what they want and what they want has no chance of flying today. So is the jrpg fanbase back home. Some of you all yourselves at this site are very resistant to hybridizing performance mmo play...you call it button mashing I believe....and "strategy" which I am still not sure what people mean by that other than keep it slow and...kill an add when it pops? Anyway.

People need to let him work now. He proved he has talent for this in a sea of idiots. No one will, naturally. This is Final Fantasy. It's their series.

Actually, I think he's limited by players who are so caught up in this mentality that everything needs to be instant, and have to spamm their abilities as fast as possible to try and accomplish things. Perhaps if people learned basic principles, like how to manage their own threat, or how to manage resources in a game, or how to manage a skill rotation effectively and pump out DPS when it's needed, and back off when it's not, things would be different. Unfortunately, too many people just ignore this and want to be top dps in a raid so they just ignore tactics altogether and instead spam everything they possibly can in an attempt to somehow "win" the raid.

You're right about one thing. It's Final Fantasy, and he's making it feel like a Final Fantasy game. I'm glad. I don't want a button mashing game where everything is just a race to finish line. I want something that takes skill, where there's kiting involved, where players have to pay attention to their DPS so as not to trigger different boss modes too early or take too long to kill something, and where players actually have to manage a rotation and put thought into what they are doing, not just memorize a 5 key rotation on a hotbar and spam it all day. Hopefully that's what we'll get in this game, only time will tell.

The game should be somewhat difficult and require us to pay attention. The game is just starting out though.

I feel if the game started out balls hard there would be no series of difficulty progression. I'm sure raids such as the Labrynth or the Tower will quench your masochistic lust quite favorably.

Something else somewhat misleading about the video, is that it's a group that's probably done the fight hundreds of times up to that point. Even the most chaotic fight can look organized when you have a group that knows exactly what and when to do things, where to stand to minimize movements that might ***** you up, etc. Also 1.0 fights I believe were tuned factoring in that the previous architecture was god awful and server lag was a fact of life. When learning the fight cracks WERE challenging because you had to get used to not animation locking yourself when they could pop up. Then after a while you just learned what you had to do.

I think as a starting point, it's a good sign that future raids will be interesting and varied. I also agree that a lot of FF white knights bash other games without really knowing everything they offer, but I don't think that will change the quality of what we'll eventually get here.