Is this really the extent of XIV endgame?Follow

Right, modern MMO's have every bit of strategy implemented in 1.0, and 2.0 so far, but at a faster clip. People can think and press at the same time. As this stands, I think this game is a 500-750k initial sub kind of game, with the outdated battles being the weakest link. If they completely stole Rift's battle mechanics, people would be saying this is the 2nd coming of jesus and the thing would be at 1-3 million players I feel. It simply a superior battle flow. You feel like you're playing something instead of menu managing like a RTS player who probably isn't really suited for MMORPGs.

Hopefully by bahamut's lair we're spamming a variety of macros and buttons, obeying mechanics, watching the environment, and all of this relatively slow and boring era is behind us. FF is holding this FF back.

The only way they can increase the challenge here are in raid mechanics (hoopjumping), and up the boss damage and dps checks. Standard MMO fare. Players will intellectualize these challenges like they did in 11. They will take the jobs that guarantee success and leave the jobs that risk failure in town. That's what happens in a simplistic MMO like FFXI that doesn't have many ways to up the challenge.

People are looking for an excuse to play a FF MMO as opposed to a blizzard series or a generic but great game like Rift. I don't know how far you got in rift, but maxed out gear was by no means an indication that you were going to perform well in it. It was a player's MMO. I think too many times people who want a thinker's mmo just have trouble with what the genre is now.

This game doesn't allow for any more thinking and strategy than any other mmo when all is said and done. And this pretense is at the expense of the general sub-paying base's impression of the battles that for all intents and purposes looks like a slow WoW circa 2007.

We will see in phase 4 once people start climbing crystal tower, if it's available. However, by then if this system is slow for the sake of strategy that is never going to be there past standard things we've seen a hundred times already, no one but old FFXI fans are going to play a strategy mmo that has no deep strategy.

The fight of ifrit you see at E3 is the level 30 story line quest fight (Easy Mode) hard mode is a level 50 fight and much harder. youre comparing 2 different fights and by the time the video of that ifrit fight was taken (1 whm video) people knew the fight, the strategy, how to win etc etc. people will have to restrategise all the old content as jobs/abilities have changed in their capabilities.

Why not just wait and see?

I understand endgame is so important to alot of people, but we're still in beta for ARR. I have no idea what bearing, if any, 1.0's endgame fights will have on ARRs. But why try to spoil it for yourself?

You say yourself you just want enjoy Eorzea and goof around. Why not just do that and not worry about endgame yet?

My view on something challenging/tactical is an event/boss that keeps whipping my ***. Period. It's that simple.

I agree with you about the "niche" not playing ARR if it isn't greatly strategic. But FF fans who are not familiar with mmos care more about the story and things not being diluted or made grindy just because it's an mmo.

The majority of people who do not play mmos don't because either the payment model or the grind associated with mmos.

I think he meant wait and see what the actual endgame is like. In 1.0, the wait and see mentality was in response to all the awful mechanics that people fully experienced in the beta, and the gamebreaking lag. People assumed SE would have it fixed by launch or shortly after, and they didn't. They were tangible systems that people actually played through. The endgame at this point isn't available, so it's a bit of a different beast.

Everyone likes their own style of game. What is fun for some is boring for others. I don't want a copy of FFXI combat, but if it takes some parts of that and mixes them with some parts of other games, and then throws in some innovation of its own, which is more what I'm hoping to seeing, I'd be very happy with that.

Yes... kiting, or tank'n'spank, or zerg rush.

Oh yes, no MMO will ever top the ever so elusive "NO ONE TOUCH THE BOSS BECAUSE TP MOVES ARE RIDICULOUS SO JUST TP AND GET OUT!"

As far as BCNMs go? Go read up on every single strategy and what do they all say?

"Don't be stupid and you'll win."

That's all it takes in FFXI: Don't. Be. Stupid. I'm sorry if you can't accept it after all these years but it wasn't a difficult game when it came to boss fights. It either was boring, had a bullsh*t mechanic (en-Death, en-Doom, Death, Doom aura, Chainspell Death, AoE Death, *CHARM*, 30-60 second Terror, etc.), or was just designed to be kited. Want to know what they did to up difficulty? They gave something ridiculous defense or evasion OR gave it the ability to completely nullify physical or magical damage (or both) at whim simply to artificially extend fights.

The only two fights that are somewhat unique I can think of (that I have fought) are Odin and P.Warden. Odin has Zentetsuken which you can kneel.... or run out of range for the 10-15 seconds it takes him to use it. P.Warden is just a battle of attrition and pisspoor design: go through all the phases to get to actually fighting him (and his 8 little BLM that spam -ga 3/4 spells), get him to 74% where he immediately spawns all avatars over a wide area and has them use Astral Flow (which kills you), and you get someone to hold zombie hold him while the alliance recovers from weakness so you can push him to 49% and die again, so you can recover to push him to 24% so you can die again, so you can recover so you can finally kill him.............or just take a lot of pet classes, sic on him, and run *WAY* out of range..... or use SMNs to throw up perfect dodge and pray you kill him with a DPS zerg before it wears off.

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Frankly as long as the team moves away from the terrible fights we've had in FFXI I'll be glad. The "hard" fights in FFXI were about RNG and whether you rolled a 1 or a 20.

Hell, I think I still have a screenshot of a tank that died on Ultima because he double attacked and died.... because Ultima countered and that ignores all armor. So he countered with two 1200 hits. RNGFANTASY'YO!

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 7:08pm by Viertel

But yeah to have trans' one post to go sub default here is shameful. There is no reason for that kind of smalltown mob mentality, and people should be embarassed.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 7:43pm by benjjjamin

Also expect to be rated down for talking about karma

Right. While I agree with BartelX on the karma system I also don't take it too seriously. I only down vote people if they're acting like douchebags, not because I disagree with them.

/facepalm

This was the FIRST primal introduced to the game, in 1.0 there were latency issues where if you didnt move early enough you were hit, IE if it looked like you were no where near the eruptions you could still get hit. Yes this is the easiest fight in the game now, no its not challenging anymore. Yoshi has said multiple times that new endgame content will be hard to figure out. I dont know how many times i have to say things before people understand them..its like you dont read anything i write. And i can only speak for 1.0 combat as the level 30 ifrit fight was 2 shotable by a lv50 blm, now the scenario quests are level sync'd.

This intrigues me. Are you saying that you will downvote a post based on if it's already been rated down and rate up if it's already been rated up? Or were you meaning something else? And yes, you're right... like most posts on this forum, it is a matter of opinion.

With what I've seen from Yoshi-P so far, I have very little reason to doubt him at this point. He took a game that most people will agree was broken and made it playable. Also, it's on record that he's a gamer as well. I think the endgame will be challenging. We just have to be patient and understand that as far as endgame ideas go, he's playing chess with a hardcore gamer base that has seen it all. Not saying that all MMO or FF players are hardcore, but that there are groups out there that will figure out boss encounters in a matter of days.