After getting to devote real time to the beta this week, I have made a solid decision on how I feel about one thing. Archers are annoying as hell. Especially the ones who don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then just run in spamming abilities and running in circles. As a Lancer, it gets very tiresome chasing the dumb ARC all around Copperbell Mines trying to complete combos.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XIV
- General Discussion
- Just chill man!
Just chill man!Follow
IKickYoDog wrote:
After getting to devote real time to the beta this week, I have made a solid decision on how I feel about one thing. Archers are annoying as hell. Especially the ones who don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then just run in spamming abilities and running in circles. As a Lancer, it gets very tiresome chasing the dumb ARC all around Copperbell Mines trying to complete combos.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
#1. Archers don't do very much DPS, so it's either
#2. Archers kite adds. When you kite, you slow/bind the mob and run/sprint while dumping arrows in to them to kill the mob without stressing the healer who is keeping you (the melee) alive.
#3. See #1^
This is not like FFXI. It is not designed to "let the tank get threat first!" and ranged dps is not supposed to stand in one spot and get hit like fools.
SE needs to implement abilities from WoW's Hunter like Feign Death (play dead, monster runs back to tank) and Misdirection (think trick attack, but for Archer).
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 5:09am by Transmigration
IKickYoDog wrote:
After getting to devote real time to the beta this week, I have made a solid decision on how I feel about one thing. Archers are annoying as hell. Especially the ones who don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then just run in spamming abilities and running in circles. As a Lancer, it gets very tiresome chasing the dumb ARC all around Copperbell Mines trying to complete combos.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
This can be said about any class really (taking hate away from tank), archers might have the slight advantage being we can bind and move away. When this usually happens the player might be new to the game or not, tell then that what they are doing is a detriment to the group. If said player continues doing this through out the run kindly explain in open chat to the healer that the said play is leet and can solo anything so don't toss them any heals. When they die, hopefully they learn their lesson.
You will find this with any class, don't hate archers ( i play one ) just because they are the ones you are seeing doing this the most.
This is not a arc problem its a DPS issue where the players think they can just hit stuff and live. When I heal instances I tell people " let tank pull and get some hate for you start attacking and make sure to focus on the marked target . If you don't I will not heal you"
People need to learn so letting a few people die who don't like to listen is worth it. They can't just assume people will bust there butts to save them cuz there being bad players .
Also there is no kiting in instances other than maybe adds from certain boss fights . Trash mobd should all stay near the tank unless there being slept by a cnj or them.
This is how things are in most MMOs and its why I take extream measures to teach DPS that its not ok to target your own mob and pull hate.
Heck even as a healer I need to wait a few seconds for the tank to get decent aggro before I can heal or I will steal hate. Everyone just needs to start paying attention and work as a team.
People need to learn so letting a few people die who don't like to listen is worth it. They can't just assume people will bust there butts to save them cuz there being bad players .
Also there is no kiting in instances other than maybe adds from certain boss fights . Trash mobd should all stay near the tank unless there being slept by a cnj or them.
This is how things are in most MMOs and its why I take extream measures to teach DPS that its not ok to target your own mob and pull hate.
Heck even as a healer I need to wait a few seconds for the tank to get decent aggro before I can heal or I will steal hate. Everyone just needs to start paying attention and work as a team.
Transmigration wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
After getting to devote real time to the beta this week, I have made a solid decision on how I feel about one thing. Archers are annoying as hell. Especially the ones who don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then just run in spamming abilities and running in circles. As a Lancer, it gets very tiresome chasing the dumb ARC all around Copperbell Mines trying to complete combos.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
#1. Archers don't do very much DPS, so it's either
#2. Archers kite adds. When you kite, you slow/bind the mob and run/sprint while dumping arrows in to them to kill the mob without stressing the healer who is keeping you (the melee) alive.
#3. See #1^
This is not like FFXI. It is not designed to "let the tank get threat first!" and ranged dps is not supposed to stand in one spot and get hit like fools.
SE needs to implement abilities from WoW's Hunter like Feign Death (play dead, monster runs back to tank) and Misdirection (think trick attack, but for Archer).
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 5:09am by Transmigration
So you think Flash should affect mobs looking at the ARC and not the tank? I disagree completely. Let the tank run it, get everything looking it and Flash, then DPS to your heart's content. I agree with the OP, but for any DD. Let the Tank do their job before you start spamming your ****. If you give them that extra 10 seconds at the beginning you can pretty much be assured they'll keep hate through the fight.
Kiting is helpful in boss fights where the adds spawn all over the place and the tank can't run around flashing/shield lobbing them all. Kiting is not necessary in trash groups where if done correctly are over and done without anyone else getting hit.
Transmigration wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
After getting to devote real time to the beta this week, I have made a solid decision on how I feel about one thing. Archers are annoying as hell. Especially the ones who don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then just run in spamming abilities and running in circles. As a Lancer, it gets very tiresome chasing the dumb ARC all around Copperbell Mines trying to complete combos.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
#1. Archers don't do very much DPS, so it's either
#2. Archers kite adds. When you kite, you slow/bind the mob and run/sprint while dumping arrows in to them to kill the mob without stressing the healer who is keeping you (the melee) alive.
#3. See #1^
This is not like FFXI. It is not designed to "let the tank get threat first!" and ranged dps is not supposed to stand in one spot and get hit like fools.
SE needs to implement abilities from WoW's Hunter like Feign Death (play dead, monster runs back to tank) and Misdirection (think trick attack, but for Archer).
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 5:09am by Transmigration
Wint beat me to it while I was getting breakfast >:O lol
The underlined part concerns me. This IS a let the tank get threat first game. At least a Flash/Overpower, or a Shield Lob/Tomahawk. It may not be "wait for provoke, flash, and a few swings" or "wait for 3 sunder armors" but you still should wait for at least that initial tank aggro. If you are NOT kiting adds and you pull aggro you should do your best to bind/slow the mob to allow the tank to get aggro/hate/threat back while not putting extra strain on the healer. You have to be careful how you say things or you'll have people thinking that its ok to drag a mob halfway across the map, possibly running into more mobs while the tank is chasing them TRYING to get threat back.
I agree on hate manipulation though. Archer is tactical class in general so a low level hate management tool would definitely be welcome.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 7:53am by Seraphknight777
My favorite is when tanks can't hold hate on but one target and take every opportunity to bust the slept mob I kept from hitting the healer only to let the mob keep hitting the healer. There is a broad range of player skill in the game and it typically takes a few pulls to know what you're dealing with and adapt. But I've had kitted out tanks that appear to know what they're doing (instance mechanics, etc.) and refuse to try to hold any group agro--not even keeping heal agro off the CNJ. Tanks: there are packs of mobs in every dungeon in the game currently that are perfect for AoE rotations, not every one (DPS needs to learn that!), but there are some so learn to manage group hate.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 7:53am by Krycis
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 7:53am by Krycis
Threat's fine. Dog is absolutely right when he says the tank should initiate hate - as the hate cap is so high there's no real way you're going to cap a fight out.
So yes, give the Tank a moment to establish a head start, and don't criticize SE over a mechanic if you don't understand it.
It's very possible to out-pace your tank when it comes to hate and have it be entirely your own fault. If you're not attacking the tank's direct target and the tank isn't meeting it's skills and combos correctly (Or has a poor damage weapon) then you're going to see a monster turn towards you.
Thankfully GLD shares its Provoke ability - which flat out pulls you to the top of the hate list (by a factor of 1 damage worth, however.) So it's an instant catch-up button if they fall behind. However, it's a level 22 Gladiator skills so that will have to be leveled a bit to obtain it.
Also keep in mind that your DoT skills also generate enmity for their DoT each tic.
So yeah, if there's a Bard/Archer spamming Windbite, Venomous Bite, Bloodletter every cooldown on top of their normal rotation, it's quite possible for them to outpace the Tank if they initiated. So giving the tank a brief moment to engage the mob and generate a hate lead is very helpful.
To Reiterate, this is not FFXI, there is no effective hate cap. If you're worried about pulling hate, give your tank a moment to get a lead on hate. If you're having to kite the mob you're fighting because you decided to engage before the tank, I fully endorse a healer from 'missing you' and focusing on where the hate and heals should be going. I'm known for pulling things off of tanks, but I typically chose the targets I know I can finish solo first. (Making use of my Life Surge and Bloodbath which would just sit on cooldown otherwise.)
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 9:00am by Hyrist
So yes, give the Tank a moment to establish a head start, and don't criticize SE over a mechanic if you don't understand it.
It's very possible to out-pace your tank when it comes to hate and have it be entirely your own fault. If you're not attacking the tank's direct target and the tank isn't meeting it's skills and combos correctly (Or has a poor damage weapon) then you're going to see a monster turn towards you.
Thankfully GLD shares its Provoke ability - which flat out pulls you to the top of the hate list (by a factor of 1 damage worth, however.) So it's an instant catch-up button if they fall behind. However, it's a level 22 Gladiator skills so that will have to be leveled a bit to obtain it.
Also keep in mind that your DoT skills also generate enmity for their DoT each tic.
So yeah, if there's a Bard/Archer spamming Windbite, Venomous Bite, Bloodletter every cooldown on top of their normal rotation, it's quite possible for them to outpace the Tank if they initiated. So giving the tank a brief moment to engage the mob and generate a hate lead is very helpful.
To Reiterate, this is not FFXI, there is no effective hate cap. If you're worried about pulling hate, give your tank a moment to get a lead on hate. If you're having to kite the mob you're fighting because you decided to engage before the tank, I fully endorse a healer from 'missing you' and focusing on where the hate and heals should be going. I'm known for pulling things off of tanks, but I typically chose the targets I know I can finish solo first. (Making use of my Life Surge and Bloodbath which would just sit on cooldown otherwise.)
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 9:00am by Hyrist
I agree, tanking in this game is not as simple as it may seem, there are chances for the tank to spectacularly bad and chances for them to be amazing.
One run on Haukke Manor, the tank ended every fight with full MP, and maybe flashed once out of ever 2-3 groups of mobs we fought.
Another, the tank kept up a Flash rotation, stunned AOE moves of the Maidens, and made my job as healer almost guiltily easy.
One run on Haukke Manor, the tank ended every fight with full MP, and maybe flashed once out of ever 2-3 groups of mobs we fought.
Another, the tank kept up a Flash rotation, stunned AOE moves of the Maidens, and made my job as healer almost guiltily easy.
I have seen tanks that could pull and keep aggro on everything even if the other player DPS immediately, I have also seen tanks that couldn't control more then one mob and everything in between.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 9:06am by Mopdaddy
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 9:06am by Mopdaddy
It's really a simple fix. Ask them to stop and if they don't let them die.
I know hate from cures is half that of hate for damage, but I don't know how it's distributed through multiple monsters (whether it's straight application or divided among.)
Either case, it does not hurt to wait until the first flash goes off before you do anything to assist the tank.
Of course, I don't, as a Dragoon I peg a low-HP monster and try to kill it immediately, as I have my own stun, damage reduction, and self-healing.
Either case, it does not hurt to wait until the first flash goes off before you do anything to assist the tank.
Of course, I don't, as a Dragoon I peg a low-HP monster and try to kill it immediately, as I have my own stun, damage reduction, and self-healing.
Mopdaddy wrote:
I have seen tanks that could pull and keep aggro on everything even if the other player DPS immediately, I have also seen tanks that couldn't control more then one mob and everything in between.
It all depends on how much the tank blows at once, if you engage first, the tank has to force themselves to catch up. And, honestly, what's the rush? Dungeons are are on 90 minute timer and time completed does not effect drop rates. Its unnecessarily stressful on the tank for no reason, especially if they're new or learning as the newer dungeons are designed for.
Ahhh yes, my very first duty finder experience. The ARC pulls hate off the tank in Ifrit. The PLD spends the remainder of the fight chasing Ifrit, while no one helped me with the nail. I figured he'd help kill nail then go back to chasing Ifrit to regain hate. At least the ARC kited quite well...
I ran tam tara the other day and had issues with an archer running in and spamming abilities on mobs, which would subsequently turn on the healer (me). On the one hand, the tank asked the archer to only attack targeted mobs, but on the other hand, it's not like the tank was being very communicative and marking mobs. We were in a DF party, but the tank was acting like she was in her end game ls and everyone just knew what to do. The tank left, we got a new tank, and then we cleared the dungeon without a problem. The moral of the story is that sometimes all that's needed is a little polite communication.
Although, some people are just knuckleheads...
Although, some people are just knuckleheads...
People will figure it out eventually, but it will be a rough start to Beta 4. Some people will need to time to adjust to the idea that the tank should run in first and Flash everything before they can attack. As it is, I've ran into people who have worn level 5 gear and the wrong type of equipment. I've intentionally pulled hate off the tank to keep them from being overwhelmed due to those aforementioned reasons and have gotten chewed out for it. The tank ended up dying later from grabbing too many mobs. If you carry the right cross class skills, you can temporarily tank something as a DPS without involving the healer.
So yes, some of the DPS are a bit behind the learning curve. Then again, that can be said about any role.
So yes, some of the DPS are a bit behind the learning curve. Then again, that can be said about any role.
Wint wrote:
Let the Tank do their job before you start spamming your sh*t.
I would support this sentence getting added to the Auto-translator!
Reading this thread just makes me love tanking even more, i love the thrill of first man in and last man out!
One thing I have worked into my move set, instead of just overpowering everything the whole time (which works, just wears tp down fast), is quick switching back and forth when mobs are in close. Start with a heavy swing on main mob targeted, then switch to whatever is closest and hit them with a skull sunder, and hit the main mob again with whatever the lvl 3 combo move is. It took me a few rounds to get comfortable switching targets with ps3 controller, but I'm actually pretty good at it now.
The number one thing that bug me the most is when somebody pulls group instead of me. It's just foolish, and it doesn't accomplish anything aside from making you look like *********
A distant second would be when someone is attacking their own mob. I don't mind this as much, because I feel like it's my duty to switch over to that target to make sure it's on me anyways, but it is a little annoying. I'm sure this would be a much bigger problem in the endgame, hopefully people will have learned by then.
The number one thing that bug me the most is when somebody pulls group instead of me. It's just foolish, and it doesn't accomplish anything aside from making you look like *********
A distant second would be when someone is attacking their own mob. I don't mind this as much, because I feel like it's my duty to switch over to that target to make sure it's on me anyways, but it is a little annoying. I'm sure this would be a much bigger problem in the endgame, hopefully people will have learned by then.
Some very good tips here for new archers like myself. I learned a lesson just yesterday. Hit the mob the tank hits lol.
I've grown to love archer during this beta phase so I'm happy find any tips I can to improve.
I've grown to love archer during this beta phase so I'm happy find any tips I can to improve.
Transmigration wrote:
#1. Archers don't do very much DPS, so it's either people suck at tanking or SE still hasn't gotten threat down
#2. Archers kite adds. When you kite, you slow/bind the mob and run/sprint while dumping arrows in to them to kill the mob without stressing the healer who is keeping you (the melee) alive.
#3. See #1^
#2. Archers kite adds. When you kite, you slow/bind the mob and run/sprint while dumping arrows in to them to kill the mob without stressing the healer who is keeping you (the melee) alive.
#3. See #1^
SE may very well have some work to do on the threat system. However, no fix to enmity changes the fact that if you, as the ARC, are standing a fair distance away from the tank and mobs, pull hate on one or more of them, then start running away from the tank... He won't be able to get hate back right away because the mobs(s) are out of range.
Transmigration wrote:
This is not like FFXI. It is not designed to "let the tank get threat first!" and ranged dps is not supposed to stand in one spot and get hit like fools.
How is it designed then? Does the take have a nuclear ******* of spammable, AOE high-enmity building moves that target adds across a wide range? No? Then he needs to be able to establish hate on all mobs early in the fight. If you allow him to do that, then you get to stand off to the side and merrily rain your arrows upon the poor enemies, thus not looking like a fool.
Transmigration wrote:
SE needs to implement abilities from WoW's Hunter like Feign Death (play dead, monster runs back to tank) and Misdirection (think trick attack, but for Archer).
I agree with you on this. I would argue that any light-armor wearing job should have at least one hate-shedding ability other than "Sprint and de-aggro."
SillyHawk wrote:
This can be said about any class really (taking hate away from tank), archers might have the slight advantage being we can bind and move away. When this usually happens the player might be new to the game or not, tell then that what they are doing is a detriment to the group. If said player continues doing this through out the run kindly explain in open chat to the healer that the said play is leet and can solo anything so don't toss them any heals. When they die, hopefully they learn their lesson.
You will find this with any class, don't hate archers ( i play one ) just because they are the ones you are seeing doing this the most.
You will find this with any class, don't hate archers ( i play one ) just because they are the ones you are seeing doing this the most.
I probably should have clarified a little more in my OP. I know that there are good, excellent, mediocre and terrible players at every role. Problem is, most people who play MMO's go the DD route and come on, who doesn't think it's awesome to have a bow and arrow to rain merciless punishment upon your foes? My post is directed at the masses who won't take the time to learn their jobs properly, or decide they don't like that style anyway. Lowest common denominator and all that.
I did offer pointers to the ARC in the particular run I am referring to. I got a bunch of "w/e" and "Don't worry about it."
silverhope wrote:
This is not a arc problem its a DPS issue where the players think they can just hit stuff and live. When I heal instances I tell people " let tank pull and get some hate for you start attacking and make sure to focus on the marked target . If you don't I will not heal you"
Agreed, and as well you should.
silverhope wrote:
Also there is no kiting in instances other than maybe adds from certain boss fights . Trash mobs should all stay near the tank unless there being slept by a cnj or them.
This was happening throughout the entire Copperbell Mines run. ARC would run in way ahead of tank, spam AOE, and start running down birdges and tunnels, aggroing more mobs and running further.
I'm going to take a lot of Archer aggro for this one, but: As a healer, the tank is my first priority! If the archer runs in with arrows blazing, and doesn't allow the tank to grab a sufficient amount of hate, then, I'm sorry, but the archer is going to die. The life of a healer is completely dependent upon the tank and, I'm sorry, but as long as the tank can keep aggro and slowly beat down the boss, the instance will be won every time, with out without an archer.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 8:33pm by Lorielll
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 8:33pm by Lorielll
As a lancer, I don't mind side tanking some of the small mobs. It helps keep monsters off the Healer, honestly, as sometimes the tank just does not have the ability to maintain a crowd's attention without exhausting himself. And honestly, I don't mind taking a few hits to my face. I've got Spirit Surge and Blood Bath, they're wasted cool-downs if I don't get to use them. (And they're VERY helpful in situations in which say, the healer dies because they decided to sit pretty in the electrified water. The Tank and I had to finish that fight with the enemy from half health.)
I don't flee from monsters that walk up to me and want to smack me in my face, if I'm standing right next to the tank. Unless of course Elusive Jump is available, then I'll hit that to dump hate.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 1:23pm by Hyrist
I don't flee from monsters that walk up to me and want to smack me in my face, if I'm standing right next to the tank. Unless of course Elusive Jump is available, then I'll hit that to dump hate.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 1:23pm by Hyrist
Seraphknight777 wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
After getting to devote real time to the beta this week, I have made a solid decision on how I feel about one thing. Archers are annoying as hell. Especially the ones who don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then just run in spamming abilities and running in circles. As a Lancer, it gets very tiresome chasing the dumb ARC all around Copperbell Mines trying to complete combos.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
#1. Archers don't do very much DPS, so it's either
#2. Archers kite adds. When you kite, you slow/bind the mob and run/sprint while dumping arrows in to them to kill the mob without stressing the healer who is keeping you (the melee) alive.
#3. See #1^
This is not like FFXI. It is not designed to "let the tank get threat first!" and ranged dps is not supposed to stand in one spot and get hit like fools.
SE needs to implement abilities from WoW's Hunter like Feign Death (play dead, monster runs back to tank) and Misdirection (think trick attack, but for Archer).
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 5:09am by Transmigration
Wint beat me to it while I was getting breakfast >:O lol
The underlined part concerns me. This IS a let the tank get threat first game. At least a Flash/Overpower, or a Shield Lob/Tomahawk. It may not be "wait for provoke, flash, and a few swings" or "wait for 3 sunder armors" but you still should wait for at least that initial tank aggro. If you are NOT kiting adds and you pull aggro you should do your best to bind/slow the mob to allow the tank to get aggro/hate/threat back while not putting extra strain on the healer. You have to be careful how you say things or you'll have people thinking that its ok to drag a mob halfway across the map, possibly running into more mobs while the tank is chasing them TRYING to get threat back.
I agree on hate manipulation though. Archer is tactical class in general so a low level hate management tool would definitely be welcome.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 7:53am by Seraphknight777
That's sort of implied. I'm not saying we should run ahead and attack before the tank does, but we shouldn't have to stand there for 5 seconds waiting for him to build up threat either. The problem is in the game design, not the players.
Is there no taunt in this game?
Transmigration wrote:
Seraphknight777 wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
After getting to devote real time to the beta this week, I have made a solid decision on how I feel about one thing. Archers are annoying as hell. Especially the ones who don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then just run in spamming abilities and running in circles. As a Lancer, it gets very tiresome chasing the dumb ARC all around Copperbell Mines trying to complete combos.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
I would really like SE to change this mechanic before launch. Whether by making moving interrupt your attack, or imposing a significant accuracy penalty. I should not miss vorpal thrust so many times in a row that my combo effect disappears when fighting a giant gigas.
And Archers, it's almost the same principle as FFXI, for those of you who played. Don't run away when you're in a sealed, instanced zone. You will ultimately take more hits from ppl not gaining hate than you can dodge by running around like a fool.
#1. Archers don't do very much DPS, so it's either
#2. Archers kite adds. When you kite, you slow/bind the mob and run/sprint while dumping arrows in to them to kill the mob without stressing the healer who is keeping you (the melee) alive.
#3. See #1^
This is not like FFXI. It is not designed to "let the tank get threat first!" and ranged dps is not supposed to stand in one spot and get hit like fools.
SE needs to implement abilities from WoW's Hunter like Feign Death (play dead, monster runs back to tank) and Misdirection (think trick attack, but for Archer).
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 5:09am by Transmigration
Wint beat me to it while I was getting breakfast >:O lol
The underlined part concerns me. This IS a let the tank get threat first game. At least a Flash/Overpower, or a Shield Lob/Tomahawk. It may not be "wait for provoke, flash, and a few swings" or "wait for 3 sunder armors" but you still should wait for at least that initial tank aggro. If you are NOT kiting adds and you pull aggro you should do your best to bind/slow the mob to allow the tank to get aggro/hate/threat back while not putting extra strain on the healer. You have to be careful how you say things or you'll have people thinking that its ok to drag a mob halfway across the map, possibly running into more mobs while the tank is chasing them TRYING to get threat back.
I agree on hate manipulation though. Archer is tactical class in general so a low level hate management tool would definitely be welcome.
Edited, Jul 12th 2013 7:53am by Seraphknight777
That's sort of implied. I'm not saying we should run ahead and attack before the tank does, but we shouldn't have to stand there for 5 seconds waiting for him to build up threat either. The problem is in the game design, not the players.
Is there no taunt in this game?
It shouldn't take a tank 5 seconds to build threat. A Flash at the start of the battle should be enough to get things going. After that, MRDs can spam Overpower a couple times to ensure attention stays on them, and GLA has an enmity generating combo. MRDs should pretty much never lose hate. GLA has it rougher with Flash as their only decent AoE hate grab.
Good point for GLA, maybe savage blade or something should add a little more "threat".
FFXIV - Bruticus Maximus - (excalibur server)
FFXI - Cubby the drunken Galka bard-Retired 7/31/2009
Kujata 75brd/75war/55drg
FFXI - Cubby the drunken Galka bard-Retired 7/31/2009
Kujata 75brd/75war/55drg
Recent Visitors: 173
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (173)
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XIV
- General Discussion
- Just chill man!
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC