Phase 4Follow

1) They haven't tested endgame in P3 either and I doubt very much you would conclude that was an unimportant "less than minor" feature.

2) FFXI missed the boat on PvP by waiting a year or two (depending on how you count it) by not having it at launch. Those who would have been into it moved on, and then WoW came along, and that was the end of that.

3) PvP brings a replayability to an MMO in much the same way as a regular gear-grind endgame. You gear up for it, you devise strategies for it, you'll even see linkshells devoted to it. I don't expect everyone to see the value in it but it extends the life of the game once all the story lines and leveling up are over with. It benefits trade classes and it brings in sub dollars. And nothing would announce to the world that FFXIV is serious about PvP like having it available at launch, just like having endgame ready for launch is equally important.

I can't be the only one who was thinking of this exact thing when Bioware talked about space battles being part of the game. Would've been awesome.

Game systems are game systems, foundations are foundations, or what you interpret as game foundations, the latency issue is major flag right now, it's been since alpha, we are going into phase 4 Open Beta. Fates and guildhest do not even compare to end game content, they are filler content, guildhest might as well be level 10 content, since the difficulty or complexity of them on level 30 are the same as the ones in level 10, Level 10-15 guildhest are tutorials as off right now, and you only do them once, there is no point in doing them more than that, the EXP/GIL reward is subpar when compared to Grand Company Leves, and the content is mediocre at Best.

As for Swotor... Again you are missing the point, did Swotor lack end game content ? Indeed, it had only 2 raids, and flashpoints, but also had PVP, PVP does prolong a games content, and it is end game content, the problem Swotor had was that when the majority of players reached the end game, and where done with it or burned out, their other avenue was broken, and unbalanced, had it been done right, it would have given the developing team some time to correct the PVE aspect of the game, since people did had something to do, but when both PVP and PVE are out, what are players then to do ? Sit down and craft ? Crafting does not sell MMORPGS, nor RPGs, nor anything, crafting is a side gimick to compliment an MMO, is not the main course, and it will never Be.

It is the majority of players, the majority of players got to cap level withing weeks of in WOW, in Rift, In GW2, in any other game that is not XI or EQ.... Yet this one is special ? How so ? The leveling system is the same, yet somehow people will take their sweet time getting to cap ? Lmao! Yeah OK!

Fates are not End Game Content, just like they where not in Rift or in GW2, they where a nice addition to the leveling system, that was nice to have, Fates in XIV do not even drop Items... Primals are not end game content, they where the lame excuse of End Game Content in 1.0, but having them as end game content in ARR is in insult, the excuse for the primals being single encounters and not instances or raids, was that the coding in 1.0 did not allowed developers to properly construct said content... Well they did fix that Right ? So why are we having the same exact content in 2.0 ? Beast man strongholds... Really ? Come on, they where boring and lame, a zergfest from start to finish with no strategy involved... If that is all we are gonna get for end game content... The big patch better come a month into the games life.

I haven't seen anything even CLOSE to a major latency issue. I've seen the occasional AoE attack that hits even if you are out of the circle before the cast bar completes (like 1 in 50) and a few other very minor concerns. What are you seeing that is so major? Also, you pointed out there isn't content after 20, I pointed out there is. It's really that cut and dry, filler content or no.


How exactly am I missing the point? Did I even mention crafting in swtor? Nope, I didn't. PvP wasn't "out", it was actually incredibly popular initially, and again once they merged the servers after everyone quit. There were instant queues at all times of day, and there were sometimes 10+ instances of huttball going on. PvP was never an issue because it was actually fun. The issue was the class balance IN PvP, which I had already mentioned, and the lack of PvE endgame content, which I already mentioned. PvP itself was never broken, it was just unbalanced. I know you'll want to claim that's the same thing, it really isn't. I had all elite warhero gear and was capped rank for PvP, trust me, that aspect of the game was actually one of the strongest parts of swtor (other than them constantly rebreaking the balance and creating flavor of the month classes like smash sents, hybrid sorcs, gunslingers, and vanguards). Even unbalanced, it was a lot of fun and the ideas behind PvP were mechanically sound and working fine.


The reason it takes longer is because of leveling multiple classes for cross-class skills, leveling crafting in order to add materia to your gear or craft gear/accessories/food/medicine, and leveling gathering to support crafting. Some people WILL be at cap in under a week. Most will not. And I still don't think the majority of players in those games were at cap in a couple weeks. I think the majority took considerably longer than that. Heck, I played 4-5 hours a day when I was unemployed and it still took me a month to hit cap in WoW, and that was 80 cap.


Yoshi-P himself said there would be endgame FATEs, and I'm guessing that many of them will occur in the strongholds, thus making it more of an endgame event. I'm guessing those will drop gear, but who knows for sure. Hard Mode/Extreme Mode Primals are endgame content, whether you want to admit it or not. You also completely glossed over relics and AF. And yeah, I already know your response "lmao, that sh*t is so easy! Everything is so easy! Lololol!" I get it, everything is easy mode to you. Go play a different game then where you can challenge yourself if you have such a problem with all the difficulty or lack of content. It's honestly that simple.

Why are we even arguing about endgame content? It's not out yet, so it's a pointless debate. Once the game launches, we'll see how it goes. Fair enough?

Edited, Jul 15th 2013 11:01pm by BartelX

Yeah Ostia is the type of person that believes WoW was the perfect MMORPG and had zero issues in any regards. He's been wrong on numerous occasions, he doesn't admit it, he just fades out of existence and stalks another thread. In XIV 1.0 you dodged attacks (he wouldn't know because he didn't do the content in 1.0) and latency was far less of an issues compared to animation lock.

In ARR you do nothing but dodge attacks, which isn't something WoW invented because I clearly remember playing many RPGs and other type of games in the 90s where dodging attacks were a staple mechanic.

Ostia: "But in terms of MMORPGs it started because WoW did it first!"

All in all, there will be a lack of content end game because they've said in the latest developers commentary most of the content is 4 man parties and I don't know about you, but that says 2 things:

1. Most content will be leveling dungeons like what we've seen in beta
2. Most end-game content can't really be classified as such and that leaves a small number of actual end-game content coming at release that requires 8-24 people.

Wow, I had to make an account just because reading this thread is making me insane, regarding the pushing back the release date thing.

Once you're within a couple months of release, pushing back your release date will cause a HUGE amount of loss of confidence. This translates directly to sales. They WILL 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT keep their release date. It doesn't matter how important PVP is to what percentage of the people, we are way too close for them to do this.

Delaying PVP a few weeks or months to iron out bugs is vastly preferable to damaging the image of an already tarnished name to ALL of their consumers.

As far as end game goes- end game is largely just an extension of what's already tested. Legacy players are able to test their high-level abilities, general dungeon mechanics have been tested, the only thing left is bigger numbers and whatever unique abilities a boss will have. PVP on the other hand is completely untested, Player stats and values are tuned vs monsters, not other players. The amount of armor/HP/damage involved is completely topsy-turvy.

To equate the untestedness of "end-game" (i.e. dungeons, but higher level) to PVP is ludicrous.

Your issue Ostia, is that instead of responding to what someone has written, you just change sh*t to your own version of it to try and make a point. Somehow 1 in 50 became 1 in 20. When did that happen? Did I say 1 in 20? Nope, never did! The rest of your argument is so paper thin it's freaking ridiculous. I've done every aspect of content available in the beta so far. I've NEVER had "Game-breaking" latency issues. Heck, even at the Highbridge FATEs, where there are literally over 20 mobs and were well over 50 people, the worst the latency ever got was missing the AoE circle about 1 in 50, like I said. Comparing that to ANY other game I've played, WoW, lotro, ffxi, ffxiv 1.0... that's amazing! There was also zero lag in those situations. None. Zip. Nada. That's unheard of for that many players and mobs on screen. Heck, I'd lag in WoW if there were more than 20-25 people on screen.

The worst issues I've had were the 1 in 50 AoE misses (which would never be a problem in a 24-man instance since I've never had that problem with less than 30-40 players and 15-20 mobs on screen), fall damage not happening instantly, a tenth of a second delay when interacting with objects before the progress bar appears, and if I use multiple skills in between GCD I will sometimes have to press the second button twice. Wow, those sure are game-breaking.



Lmao, if you honestly think that classes are balanced in WoW pvp, or really any other game that has pvp you're a bigger troll than I thought. It's virtually impossible to completely balance the classes, because every time you make ANY changes to a class, you are throwing it out of balance with the others. There are ALWAYS going to be classes that are more powerful than others.

Oh, and also, stop taking everything I write out of context. I never said PvP was flawless, I said the core mechanics to it, as in the warzones and tactics involved, worked flawlessly, which they did. You do this every time... you focus in on one word of a post and then try and claim things that people never said. It's what people who are bad at arguing do to try and prove their point. PvP was fun and the biggest issue it had was that classes were imbalanced (like almost every game that has PvP). Don't believe me? Why don't you ask reavers in lotro how balanced pvp is. Or how about rogues in gw2 or WoW? It might have changed, but when I played 3 years ago, a well played rogue was pretty much unstoppable. So quit your BS about class balance breaking PvP. It's a ridiculous argument, and you know it.

As for my opinions, you're damn right they are my opinions, because I'm not condescending and arrogant enough to think that everything I state is a fact like you. Although in this case, it's just a simple case of I have the experience playing the game, and you're just talking out of your ***. Now go do some research on swtor pvp so you can come back and pretend like you played it and know what you are talking about.

Edited, Jul 16th 2013 9:18am by BartelX

That's how most end up these days