To the topic: there is always that fear. Just like there is a fear being a healer and DPS (DD - whatever we are calling them). With any pick up group, there is a chance you play with people who are learning or just not grasping the job they are doing, whether it be not healing enough, not keeping hate, or not regulating the dps. I take those parties as higher learning curve parties - stressful, but they really push you in your own role in the party. Provides the opportunity to suggest a little friendly advice on how the group can operate better by doing XYZ is only a chat box away. Do it a few times, and you get over the fear of rocking the boat. Just be kind and if the rebuff is trollish, ignore them. If they can't take it as something to try or something they want to do, then so be it - you can't do it all no matter how much you want to. If it really is not working out and you are repeatedly dying, there is no shame in bowing out - just let them know you are leaving before you dart off, common courtesy and all.
But those parties aside, sometimes you get in a really great party that flows and it is like watching the plot of a movie unfold seamlessly. Those are the ones you need to make yourself fully aware of and live it up then and there. They are what drive you on - always looking for that perfect synergy.
Most of the time though, you get a really good player or two with the others just there to push buttons - add the ones that compliment your gameplay style to your friendlist and go from there. Those parties are not horrible, but not ideal either - however they make up the bulk of your grouping in pick ups. Find a great tank - F-list him/her. Healer just saved the entire group with an amazing heal rotation, added. DPS that unleashed the apocalypse just as the mob was going to dust the party with an AoE? yep. And after all this happens, you suddenly don't fear pick up groups as much anymore because they are a kinda metagame to see how many great players you can add to your friendlist.
Just my opinion and YMMV, but it works in every MMO - to an extent.
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Fear of not tanking.Follow
You should have no fear of tanking, as of right now, there is no encounter that you cannot tackle as a new tank, everything will die or be tanked easily, and as you progress you will learn to tank better, the first level 15 dungeon is not hard, that should be your first party experience, and you you will learn to correct the mistakes you make from that run, now if you are a new tank, in a level 30+ dungeon, well people will call you out on being bad(Not saying you where btw)
Ostia wrote:
You should have no fear of tanking, as of right now, there is no encounter that you cannot tackle as a new tank, everything will die or be tanked easily, and as you progress you will learn to tank better, the first level 15 dungeon is not hard, that should be your first party experience, and you you will learn to correct the mistakes you make from that run, now if you are a new tank, in a level 30+ dungeon, well people will call you out on being bad(Not saying you where btw)
qft. I'm just hoping the experienced players try to be kind teaching the newer players. I frequent all the posts and regarding "noob" tank/dd/healer; so far in my experience when helping these players out, they all picked up really quickly, especially when I was nicer to some then others.
For the small PS3 discussion: I play with a PS3 controller on my PC. Movement feels so much better with a gamepad. The only problem I have is switching hotbars. It feels clunky and switching through multiple hotbars to get back to my combat bar is frustrating. Fortunately SE is gonna try to address that for Phase 4.
Again, something you would think would be common sense. Ask any FFXI Dynamis vet how quickly things can go to sh!% when someone attacks a slept mob like a dumba$$.
You cannot believe how happy I am whenever I see mages sleep mobs and DPS attacking my marked target. I'm like a kid buried in strawberries.
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Quote:
Tip: Let the mage sleep the mobs and focus on one. It makes life way easier for everyone.
Again, something you would think would be common sense. Ask any FFXI Dynamis vet how quickly things can go to sh!% when someone attacks a slept mob like a dumba$$.
You cannot believe how happy I am whenever I see mages sleep mobs and DPS attacking my marked target. I'm like a kid buried in strawberries.
Well, thank you. I will definitely try out some DD classes. and help out the tanks where I can if they need it.
If you played FFXI and did campaign, it's the same issue. Solve the issue by showing up and expecting those in the appropriate job class to do what they are good at, or bring a friend. Otherwise, to each his own. ;o
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At least for the first 30 or so levels, you'll only need to carry one set of gear–a heavy set. Any additional bonuses on another set of gear wouldn't be worth losing the extra defense. As far as playing MRD as a DPS goes, I think you might run into problems. Unless the tank is really good, you'll probably end up grabbing quite a bit of the monster's attention. Your highest damage combo has an enmity modifier on it. Going back to my first point, wearing heavy armor would be a huge plus in those situations.
When you get WAR, things will become even worse. Defiance decreases your damage but further increases your enmity generation. You could go as MRD or just not use Defiance, but you end up wasting a lot of your class's potential. My suggestion would be to try out LNC once Beta 4 opens up. It's the most similar DPS to MRD, and it would save you from being asked to tank. I realize that Great Axes are sexy, but you might enjoy LNC and DRG more on the long term.
If you do decide to stick with MRD, the best piece of advice I can give you is to level GLA and PGL before you hit the dungeons. You'll want to get Flash and Second Wind. Flash is a good way to start out a battle and to generate additional hate during long fights. Second Wind is pretty much a free potion on a timer. For multiple enemies, using Overpower 2-3 times at the start is a great way to cement hate. If you're up against 5+, combining Bloodbath and Overpower can help make things easier on the healer. Other than that, you'll mostly just use Fracture, Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder, and Heavy Swing > Maim until more abilities become available.
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Thanks for the advice! The last thing I want to do is steal hate from the tank. I guess it's best if I just learn how to tank properly.
At least for the first 30 or so levels, you'll only need to carry one set of gear–a heavy set. Any additional bonuses on another set of gear wouldn't be worth losing the extra defense. As far as playing MRD as a DPS goes, I think you might run into problems. Unless the tank is really good, you'll probably end up grabbing quite a bit of the monster's attention. Your highest damage combo has an enmity modifier on it. Going back to my first point, wearing heavy armor would be a huge plus in those situations.
When you get WAR, things will become even worse. Defiance decreases your damage but further increases your enmity generation. You could go as MRD or just not use Defiance, but you end up wasting a lot of your class's potential. My suggestion would be to try out LNC once Beta 4 opens up. It's the most similar DPS to MRD, and it would save you from being asked to tank. I realize that Great Axes are sexy, but you might enjoy LNC and DRG more on the long term.
If you do decide to stick with MRD, the best piece of advice I can give you is to level GLA and PGL before you hit the dungeons. You'll want to get Flash and Second Wind. Flash is a good way to start out a battle and to generate additional hate during long fights. Second Wind is pretty much a free potion on a timer. For multiple enemies, using Overpower 2-3 times at the start is a great way to cement hate. If you're up against 5+, combining Bloodbath and Overpower can help make things easier on the healer. Other than that, you'll mostly just use Fracture, Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder, and Heavy Swing > Maim until more abilities become available.
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Thanks for the advice! The last thing I want to do is steal hate from the tank. I guess it's best if I just learn how to tank properly.
Convalescence would synergize with a MAR as well since they have that move that restores their HP. and don't forget to pick up keen flurry from LNC.
I do.
I pretty much won't go as dd by myself. I'm either tank, or healer if I'm going by myself for some reason.
So I take advantage of when I go with friends who I know can also play a good tank/healer and I get to sit back and Archer.
I pretty much won't go as dd by myself. I'm either tank, or healer if I'm going by myself for some reason.
So I take advantage of when I go with friends who I know can also play a good tank/healer and I get to sit back and Archer.
I actually love tanking myself, but for this game I am hesitant to devote my character as a career tank. Special attention has to be paid to how events are balanced so that one type of tank (MRD/WAR) does not become favoured over another (GLD/PLD) or in some cases no tank at all in order to squeeze in another DPS. Hopefully this explanation makes sense (it does in my head anyways):
If by bringing an extra DPS and killing a mob faster you can take less damage overall and make it more manageable for the healer, then it just makes sense not to tank and spank with a PLD and extend the fight.
I will admit, most of my experience comes from FFXI and as a career PLD in that game there were many events that I had a tough time participating in (not that I couldn't actually do it, but that I had a hard time convincing a party to allow my DPS-geared PLD to join in) simply because I could not put out enough damage to justify my spot over another DPS (mostly around the ToAU era). It also doesn't help that the defense stat in FFXI was almost worthless on any enemies that mattered and that everyone could simply avoid damage by using skills from /NIN, but that brings me back to my point on balance. If they can keep it balanced such that a defensive tank is worthwhile in encounters then there may not be a problem.
If by bringing an extra DPS and killing a mob faster you can take less damage overall and make it more manageable for the healer, then it just makes sense not to tank and spank with a PLD and extend the fight.
I will admit, most of my experience comes from FFXI and as a career PLD in that game there were many events that I had a tough time participating in (not that I couldn't actually do it, but that I had a hard time convincing a party to allow my DPS-geared PLD to join in) simply because I could not put out enough damage to justify my spot over another DPS (mostly around the ToAU era). It also doesn't help that the defense stat in FFXI was almost worthless on any enemies that mattered and that everyone could simply avoid damage by using skills from /NIN, but that brings me back to my point on balance. If they can keep it balanced such that a defensive tank is worthwhile in encounters then there may not be a problem.
I enjoy tanking. I am very good at it.
1. Mark targets if there is more than 2.
2. When last mob is at 15-20% hp start running ahead to the next pack of mobs to get the jump before an over zelous DD does.
3. Listen to your party members. If they want you to slow down or they need a rest listen to them.
4. use your CD's appropriately.
1. Mark targets if there is more than 2.
2. When last mob is at 15-20% hp start running ahead to the next pack of mobs to get the jump before an over zelous DD does.
3. Listen to your party members. If they want you to slow down or they need a rest listen to them.
4. use your CD's appropriately.
Quote:
2. When last mob is at 15-20% hp start running ahead to the next pack of mobs to get the jump before an over zelous DD does.
/assist macros. I have a buddy who was/is a career PLD and if he was in a large event or in a party where he didn't know everyone he would make everyone do assist macros. I liked it as a DD as well, took the guess work out of the equation.
Assist Macros are great and all, but I find it unrealistic for everyone who weren't using assist macros before to use them for standard dungeon runs. I'd rather just mark it and hope they're smart enough to attack the same target.
6 posts
I'm not sure if it was mentioned but in the previous beta phase there was an actual enmity bar against all aggro-ed mobs. Basically you could tell if the mob was going to stray. It made tanking a breeze and was even nice for aoe's since DDs could aoe just enough so the tank could still keep hate. It seems SE realized it made it too easy and removed it.
In response to most of the posts in this thread about tanking and best practices I agree with basically all of them save marking. I definitely marked as a tank however it seems a right better job for a ranged DD say archer or thm to do so. In comparison to the other classes the tank has a more a taxing job and I think a ranged DD would be best in relieving that burden by marking the mobs. I think this will also come in into play during battles when mobs spawn and the tank does have the free time to mark them as well. As it stand the dungeons are fairly simple but as boss fights become more complicated I feel you'll see more successful groups using the ranged DD to mark mobs.
In response to most of the posts in this thread about tanking and best practices I agree with basically all of them save marking. I definitely marked as a tank however it seems a right better job for a ranged DD say archer or thm to do so. In comparison to the other classes the tank has a more a taxing job and I think a ranged DD would be best in relieving that burden by marking the mobs. I think this will also come in into play during battles when mobs spawn and the tank does have the free time to mark them as well. As it stand the dungeons are fairly simple but as boss fights become more complicated I feel you'll see more successful groups using the ranged DD to mark mobs.
Searsonsays wrote:
I'm not sure if it was mentioned but in the previous beta phase there was an actual enmity bar against all aggro-ed mobs. Basically you could tell if the mob was going to stray. It made tanking a breeze and was even nice for aoe's since DDs could aoe just enough so the tank could still keep hate. It seems SE realized it made it too easy and removed it.
Uh... it's definitely still there.
http://i.imgur.com/IRn2jfg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ir412M6.jpg
I don't have a pic with a long list as I usually hide the UI when I take a SS.. but the bar is still there and works quite well.
And yes, it is pretty much an "Easy Button".
Edited, Jul 17th 2013 6:23pm by FlixEffect
^ Yep I used this when healing to see if a tank is watching. I don't do it on purpose I just have to heal and watch the bar go from nothing, grey, yellow "vramp noise", sometimes I get a free cure here so I wait... Cure II, Red!!!!!!!!! Good tanks will grab the mob quickly if it aggros.
Great tank, Nothing, grey, yellow "vramp noise", back to grey. They are usually good at switching targets while the DPS is still attacking first mob.
I don't think all tanks realized this was here.
Great tank, Nothing, grey, yellow "vramp noise", back to grey. They are usually good at switching targets while the DPS is still attacking first mob.
I don't think all tanks realized this was here.
There's also built in Target of Target right next to the ... Target health bar. So if a mob looks at someone for a second, ToT will change.
Canadensis wrote:
I actually love tanking myself, but for this game I am hesitant to devote my character as a career tank. Special attention has to be paid to how events are balanced so that one type of tank (MRD/WAR) does not become favoured over another (GLD/PLD) or in some cases no tank at all in order to squeeze in another DPS. Hopefully this explanation makes sense (it does in my head anyways):
If by bringing an extra DPS and killing a mob faster you can take less damage overall and make it more manageable for the healer, then it just makes sense not to tank and spank with a PLD and extend the fight.
I will admit, most of my experience comes from FFXI and as a career PLD in that game there were many events that I had a tough time participating in (not that I couldn't actually do it, but that I had a hard time convincing a party to allow my DPS-geared PLD to join in) simply because I could not put out enough damage to justify my spot over another DPS (mostly around the ToAU era). It also doesn't help that the defense stat in FFXI was almost worthless on any enemies that mattered and that everyone could simply avoid damage by using skills from /NIN, but that brings me back to my point on balance. If they can keep it balanced such that a defensive tank is worthwhile in encounters then there may not be a problem.
If by bringing an extra DPS and killing a mob faster you can take less damage overall and make it more manageable for the healer, then it just makes sense not to tank and spank with a PLD and extend the fight.
I will admit, most of my experience comes from FFXI and as a career PLD in that game there were many events that I had a tough time participating in (not that I couldn't actually do it, but that I had a hard time convincing a party to allow my DPS-geared PLD to join in) simply because I could not put out enough damage to justify my spot over another DPS (mostly around the ToAU era). It also doesn't help that the defense stat in FFXI was almost worthless on any enemies that mattered and that everyone could simply avoid damage by using skills from /NIN, but that brings me back to my point on balance. If they can keep it balanced such that a defensive tank is worthwhile in encounters then there may not be a problem.
I always liked the prospect of a DD Paladin in FFXI, I saw several that were able to do damage on par with WARs and DRKs. Plus they could hit a single button and switch to full tank if something goes wrong. It's probably still enmity from when 2 handers were weak compared to 1 handers. That combined with PLD not being a primary "DD Job" made people think that they were terrible, even though they had an A-something in greatsword. I tried to do it on my PLD, but I never got around to capping my greatsword skill before I quit playing the first time.
Puppetmaster had the same issue, even though they could put out the damage of nearly two people no one ever wanted them for parties or End-Game. I suppose It is because the puppet could die to AoE easily, but still it wasn't that bad.
This was something that I was looking forward to in FFXIV. With the lean on casual play I could see a DD paladin being viable, at least in non Raid play. But of course we are limited to one weapon type so that dream goes out the window.
As a MRD Tank, I'm think I'm a pretty decent tank, however, it's when the conjurer isn't paying attention and I end up dying, that's when things become crap. lol
I don't think people should be worried, though. We're here to have fun and enjoy the game.
I don't think people should be worried, though. We're here to have fun and enjoy the game.
Tanking is so easy in this game you cant ***** it up. But bad DPS and heals will every time.
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