Void Ark and Main Scenario PreviewFollow

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/2dd46506dbce0211950ed0a6c4463d52b8d5b774 - Void Ark



http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/67bb968813a6b96cb65327f01b1641b04279d564 - Main Scenario


So..looks like they didn't tune VA to be a viable raid even after the delay, kinda disappointing since Diabolos is my favorite summon from the series, especially after being a central figure in XI's storyline and considering we know he's part of the events in the war of the magi and the Void Ark ship is related to those mages...seems like a wasted opportunity to bring that into the central storyline rather than a "side" storyline like CT was. Gameplay wise..it seems it will be mostly useful for the esoterics upgrade materials since sky exploration is in the same patch.

Mainstory it seems we're going to deal with that Kirlie chick or whomever Minfillia mentioned since the hood of that Lala looks exactly like her White Mage outfit from FFV.

Very excited for this! Will be nice to have some new content to mess around with for awhile.

Anything not 210 is not 'viable', if all your concerned about is clearing the hardest content. Which is a BS standard to be judging gear by, sorry but I'm calling that one out Hio. Your standards on whether or not this gear is worth it is in stark disagreement with mine.

I mean, really, why are we weighing the viability of a piece of gear compared to content with such a super-narrow participation rate? At this point I'd say the standard should be content more broadly participated in. In which case depending on the popularity of Exploration Missions, that may be the new standard.

As far as the content standing on its own. We will have plenty of trolls and poorly skilled people to carry as we do every time there's a 24 man raid. That will provide more than enough challenge and entertainment for the content itself.

Seriously, I've never gotten the idea of rating the 'viability' of a piece of content based solely on its rewards. Besides, the moment the upgrade components come out for that Raid, it becomes viable progression mechanic by ANY standard.

I'm not sure how much I'll run the new CT, I've cleared everything up to AS1 but raiding is no go for me. Running faceroll dungeons a lot to faceroll them faster doesn't seem as interesting without content that's slightly easier than AS1. The EX primals seem to have a good overall balance in difficulty, but I can already clear all of them without the gear from 2.1.

Indeed - CT was originally supposed to release before Coil but they had to nerf down the difficulty and instead, released Coil first - meaning CT was originally supposed to be harder than Coil because CT would gear you up for Coil then Coil for the next set of CT and so on. Yet despite that initial design hiccup, they followed the pattern ever since. Even with a delay they could have tuned VA to be a proper raid since even the most casual player will be at a point they could use it for progression unless you seriously play only 2 hours a week lol.

So even gap bridging, they actually have to put it at 205-210 but given the past and the current ilvl, the gear is USUALLY 10-15 ilvls under the current max ilvl, so the biggest question: Will they retrofit Savage Alexander Gear and Esoteric gear?



See, that's the thing - This patch was delayed quite a bit, meaning they could have tuned it to be an actual raid taking into consideration the fact that unless you did absolutely nothing outside of the main storyline, a good chunk of the playerbase would be at a point that in terms of progression, it's literally just a glorified Glamour raid. Esoterics came out very early into the HW cycle (4 weeks in) and you only need ilvl175 to enter and my ghetto SMN is i180 in law gear (this takes no time to get and upgrade) and a ravana weapon, meaning at best the gear will be ilvl205 (to justify the weekly lockout) - Even the RP LS and FC my alt is in on Balmung that I transferred to play with returning friends have been showing some concern because while they don't play progressively to the point they do Savage Alex on a regular basis..most are in at minimum full left side Eso mixed in with AS 1&2 and Alex normal gear. That is my point. You'll always disagree because you don't raid or like to raid yet still want to become powerful - But anyone who does are already and have been showing concerns, even the people who praise Yoshida as the second coming have been taking a step back because as said -- 5 months later, there's a good chance you're already beyond needing to run VA especially if they follow World of Darkness where some items may be your BiS, whether you raid or not and I implore you to show me a sizable amount of people who chose not to up their ilvl in these past 5 months that actually plays the game a length of time to be able to buy items (because even just rouletting and not spamming/PvP you would still have a fair amount of Eso gear by now.)




Based on the census Void Ark shouldn't exist nor drop gear beyond ilvl190 if we're going by participation rate - Not many did Alex Normal despite the "large request" unless the population is well into the millions. That is unlikely, so that means even the much requested story mode content got a narrow participation rate. So my point is: Given the patch is coming after 5 months, they've had ample time to do something more "proper" because that's 5 MONTHS for people to be at a point if they release content designed for people after 2 months of progression...it's kind of odd. Even you can see that and no amount of "well people don't play a lot!" can excuse that. 5 months is quite the time frame for people to expect to go backwards. Bismarck Ex is already obsolete out the gate, was a nice "introduction" to the flow of HW's end-game, but right after? You get Ravana, where you don't need Bismarck's weapons if you have Law gear (which you did in order to meet DPS checks on Bismarck.) So you could say people will use VA for "alts", but at this point, Sky Exploration already invalidating content by dropping high ilvl (up to 210)means it already invalidated Void Ark because...you can get that gear for alts as well.

See? You're perfectly ok with it because you don't do the content, but people who look at the overall picture shows concern because no other MMO does this Back and Forth design especially when a content is released late they tend to actually retrofit it to take into consideration current trends, it's either straight forward or branched off. Even WoW does it. So of course you'll never understand it nor really care about it, which is cool you do you -- but from a design standpoint, it's not good. It's literally releasing content meant to be released VERY early VERY late. If you can't see that then I don't know what to say, an easy example would be if they were to release Binding Coil of Bahamut (2.0) in 3.15 with most players at ilvl195-204 and didn't tune the content to take that into consideration. Would you still die? Sure. But the gear would still be ilvl90 with weapons ilvl95, yet you were doing the content in ilvl180-210 weapons.

So my point is - they're releasing 2 sets of content that invalidates Alexander Savage (as most "casual raiders" are stuck on A3S so they're missing out on a lot of gear) and content that already contradicts each other - Sky Exploration drops Aetherial (which can and does have the same stats as green and sometimes blue gear) with the added benefit of a randomized secondary stat and glamour - meaning you can grind it for what you'd like for any of your classes meaning unless this too has a weekly lockout, you literally have no reason to do VA outside of upgrade materials and if you care for that story. So overall, unless they have proper ilvl around 205 or even 210 given that it's coming out late and another set of non-raid content will drop 210 (and sorry to break it to you, but when ilvl gear is what defines progression it matters.) there's going to be some problems - this isn't even taking into account the crafted recipes (specialist) that we're supposed to get which may even have bridged accessories like usual.

From a lore perspective my point is I'd have hoped Diabolos would have a bigger part since they did hype up he will return in the story line after people requested it (and the fact when he "died" he didn't really die.) War of the Magi and such are key story elements to the overall ARR+ storyline but the alliance raids tend to be "side storylines" so while it exists in the physical world, you can bypass it completely unless SE makes it a requirement for future required content (for example Minstrel's Ballad: Ultimate Weapon required for Alexander Savage.)

I care for progression both gear and storyline which is why this all over the place is just...weird especially now that they had the opportunity to correct it. The only thing that will "save" this is based on the minimum ilvl of the new content gear wise and what lockout/restrictions are on it and as proven by history, we're always going to get that "there it is!" moment that makes people happy or upsets even the most casual of players and I don't wait for the english translations, so I hear the stuff they don't always translate lol.

Ct wasnt a hardcore raid either so i dynno why anyone would expect differentfrom VA

If the current top-tier iLevel is 210, and if non-upgraded esoterics are 200, then I'd wish the new VA gear would be i205... not as good as current raid gear, but something better than what people have had access to for months already. Plus, i205 gear would give a bit of an assist to raiders who are trying hard to clear tight DPS checks.

See, I'm a man of the people!

In general, we go back to my 3 rules of why content is done in MMOs:
1) Personal progression.
2) Progression of others.
3) To kill time, hopefully having fun in the process.

None are mutually exclusive and I largely hinted at 1 and 2 with my prior post, or even in the raid thread about politics and the like for 2. 3, however, is something that tends to diminish through repetition and/or a feeling of it not worth the time. Yes, one could theoretically gear out multiple jobs, presuming no lockouts, but if you don't have multiple jobs (and choose not to) then content lifespan shrinks.

There's a faulty assumption about MMOs that everyone can be bribed to like everything through rewards. Don't like PvP? Gear with any kind of PvP requirement can be anathema. Hate raiding? Well, best hope crafted/quested goods can be "good enough" to get by on. While it's certainly possible someone may come to like something they think they wouldn't have, you're still going to get those who build resentment the more they're forced into content they can't enjoy.

That in mind, it's okay for things to flop. Sometimes they can be fixed. Sometimes they're better left to rot. The important thing is to learn from the experience. Unfortunately, the MMO dev cycle tends to be a mix of sluggish and stubborn when it comes to reacting to the needs and wants of their players. And it doesn't help when you further have players arguing against those needs and wants for all the wrong reasons. So, if there's something you still can't get or accept, then take away that many people want to be entertained in the moment and not a week, a month, or even a year from that point.

The sad part is, is that the design philosophy and perpetual greed based judgement of the player base does more to dampen my desire to play the game than any mechanic, story, progression mechanic ,etc.

I think I need to step out of the conversation before my Haitus turns into a retirement.

Hyrist, don't be dissuaded. Remember that the playerbase is mostly on your side. Hardcore raids ARE becoming obsolete, and midcore gaming is the new coveted endgame.

FFXIV is a safe place.

Hio there's a lot more to Savage than that. Heck, there was a lot more to Coil than that. What was demanded was more or less opperational perfection. And really, that's just not fun to most people. That's what's expected out of them at work, so it's just not appealing as a passtime.

Sure, there are some people who are really into that sort of thing. But it really is disheartening to hear them, and by extension, you, constantly harp on mentalities and playstyles not your own. Hate to say it, but you come off as really judgmental sometimes. (Hi kettle, I'm pot.)

As far as SE's execution in midcore content. I donno. 24 mans seems to maintain being engaging long enough, and the normal Alexander was actually quite fun to me. I feel as if they did fairly well on those. I do feel they need to design more than just combat mechanics in dungeons and raids, and I do feel as if they need to allow for fights to be... more sloppy? I enjoy variability in how an encouter or mission happens. Playing Destiny is sort of highlighting that for me. The same mission might not have the same monster placement as the time before, and even the same encounter doesn't play out the same way due to the nature of it being a shooter.

FFXIV could benefit form being a little more chaotic.

But on a side note: Thanks Thayos, but I'll be fine. It's headed into a bad time of year for me but it'll pass. Always does.

Well you certainly are passionate about the subject, I'll give you that. I wish I could be in the state where I could engage you on the topic more in depth, but between medical problems and personal life issues, right now. I'm good to keep a coherent sentence structure.

I'm not exactly in agreement with a single set mmo standard, but I can agree that FFXIV's current system stands some improvement. I'm still rather hopeful of Exploration Missions, even though you feel it has some major clashing problems ahead of it.

I honestly don't think that Savage level content should be necessary for highest level gear - for instance. I think Savage, that highest echelon of difficulty, should be more about the concept of accomplishment, rather than the concept of progression. It should be something you do and get lasting rewards for, not due to get pieces of gear that you'll just cycle out with the next Savage. I would prefer that 'Story' be just a touch harder than it is and leave the difficulty there. No need for "Hard" unless they want to have a sort of randomized element to it to broaden the entertainer value. And then have content have mechanics that scale to the number of people that are participating, rather than have a static participation system we have now.

And that's about as far as my aching tooth is going to let me think on the subject. Impacted Wisdom tooth, physically destroying the other teeth. Getting pulled Thursday, oh joy.