at il190 if i use all cooldowns and just focus on dps (i.e standing still and not having to worry about dodging or mechanics) i can do 900-1000
but when having to stop to dodge or do mechanics (or switch targets to deal with adds) or cool downs are down an not available) then i drop to 600-700.. is that "normal"/"acceptable" Because in the exact same fight I seen a drg staying at 1.1k constantly only dropping to 900 near the end, despite having to do the same stopping, moving, mechanic dodging and add killing that i had to do. So am i doing something wrong or are drgs just stronger than brds?
What SHOULD i be able to do constantly without the use of cooldowns and taking dodging an mechanics into consideration?
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- whats average brd dps?
whats average brd dps?Follow
Hm..as you inch towards i200+ you should be hitting at least 1100 consistently, but BRD dps will always fluctuate depending on song rotation even with WM up. It depends on what you're doing really. Without Cooldowns and dodging in consideration..still around the 800+ mark but as you're only i190 you won't really get your consistent numbers yet.
DRG is in a good place now, so a good DRG will blow brd/mch away in DPS if played properly and geared, so don't even worry about that.
DRG is in a good place now, so a good DRG will blow brd/mch away in DPS if played properly and geared, so don't even worry about that.
well Im actually 194 and i dont think 6 extra il i gonna make a difference as for the content in question it was alex 4 normal, also you said drg is in a good place right now so you wouldnt worry about that but also said, without dodging and cooldowns i should still be around the 800 mark, so if im 600-700 wouldnt that mean im doin something wrong?
I just wanna know i can do alex savage 1-3 without having to hear ppl ***** about my dps or me being the lowest dps on the list (if that is the case), which i actually had someone make the latter comment in alex 4 normal once which made me finally setup a parser just so i could see myself how "bad" i was doin and today in alex 4 we had a drg, a mnk (who i naturally expect to be weaker than as well as blm), and another brd, i stayed 3rd on the list consistently (only above the other brd), but as the fight ended he finally jumped ahead of me by 50 point, end of the fight DPS being drg 907 mnk 866 brd 712 and me 665, but my crit hit rate was higher than everyone elses by a whole 3% lol
I just wanna know i can do alex savage 1-3 without having to hear ppl ***** about my dps or me being the lowest dps on the list (if that is the case), which i actually had someone make the latter comment in alex 4 normal once which made me finally setup a parser just so i could see myself how "bad" i was doin and today in alex 4 we had a drg, a mnk (who i naturally expect to be weaker than as well as blm), and another brd, i stayed 3rd on the list consistently (only above the other brd), but as the fight ended he finally jumped ahead of me by 50 point, end of the fight DPS being drg 907 mnk 866 brd 712 and me 665, but my crit hit rate was higher than everyone elses by a whole 3% lol
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t12V9LCXPigMf7yA0l9gndMW7o85PKvWUuU5cwsLaoo/pubhtml#
This is all Savage records, but you can see that depending on the fight, DPS is going to vary a ton from job to job. As you pointed out, fights where you can be more stationary you're outputting more. Whereas fights where you have to constantly be mobile, yours might dip some. Then there's fights where certain jobs can unload AOE and boost their numbers. Granted these people are probably all ilvl200, but it still gives you a slight idea.
Brd goes anywhere from 1100-1900 on these encounters.
This is all Savage records, but you can see that depending on the fight, DPS is going to vary a ton from job to job. As you pointed out, fights where you can be more stationary you're outputting more. Whereas fights where you have to constantly be mobile, yours might dip some. Then there's fights where certain jobs can unload AOE and boost their numbers. Granted these people are probably all ilvl200, but it still gives you a slight idea.
Brd goes anywhere from 1100-1900 on these encounters.
My static's BRD on AS1 Faust was doing about 1200 at about i190. So that's a 2 and a half minute fight against what amounts to a training dummy for a BRD.
If you're seriously losing 50% of your dps doing mechanics, I'd suggest planning your movements out a bit better as well as learning when you need to turn off minuet vs when you just stop doing things while you move. I had to pretty much learn fight by fight for BLM how to manage enochian in each one. I suspect BRD has a similar learning curve to it.
If you're seriously losing 50% of your dps doing mechanics, I'd suggest planning your movements out a bit better as well as learning when you need to turn off minuet vs when you just stop doing things while you move. I had to pretty much learn fight by fight for BLM how to manage enochian in each one. I suspect BRD has a similar learning curve to it.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
So if I had to level either brd or drg, would you guys strongly recommend drg? I'd just started taking my bard up to 60, but I'm not above switching gears.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Both jobs are useful in savage, BRD/MCH just have that higher ceiling for skill.
theres actually a time when you turn off WM? >.>
Some people are really against WM.
Thayos wrote:
So if I had to level either brd or drg, would you guys strongly recommend drg? I'd just started taking my bard up to 60, but I'm not above switching gears.
Honestly, just play whichever one you enjoy playing more. Every job is useful, but if you're not having fun then what's the point?
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
theres actually a time when you turn off WM? >.>
Absolutely. If you have to charge across a room but will still be able to have the boss targeted, you should kill WM and dps on the move, then recast on the other side. It all depends on how long you're going to be without it, plus I can't remember if it still has a cast time on it or not.. I think it does. This is determined on a boss by boss basis and you'll have to learn when it's appropriate to turn it off vs when it's appropriate to just stop doing damage for a second.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
ok so on training dummy, with WM and no food and no cooldowns for 3min and 10 secs (the time it took to run outta tp), my DPS was 711 then after about 5 secs of bein idle dropped to 692 which is whee it stayed so Im guessing thats my correct DPS
then on a training dummy (still with no food) i used all m cooldowns and start then reapplied each on as soon as the recast timer was back up and my for 3 mins and 10 secs (which is hen i ran outta tp) dps was 965 dropping at 840 after a few seconds off inactivity. So hows that?
then on a training dummy (still with no food) i used all m cooldowns and start then reapplied each on as soon as the recast timer was back up and my for 3 mins and 10 secs (which is hen i ran outta tp) dps was 965 dropping at 840 after a few seconds off inactivity. So hows that?
It's better.. I'd say that more important than hitting every cooldown as soon as it comes up, you should be making sure you're getting as many cooldowns as possible to line up with your DoT applications. BRDs have a bajillion cooldowns and most of them will boost the effectiveness of your DoTs. You might even clip a DoT if you can get it in to the end of a running cooldown.
So for instance your timeline might look like this:
Bunch of cooldowns up -> Apply all dots -> Do rotation for a while -> Cooldowns about to fall off but dots still have more than 3 seconds left on them -> Apply dots anyway and then don't clip these dots later because they're boosted.
So let's say Windbite lasts (number from my ... we won't get in to that) 24 seconds and you put it up as soon as you've got all your cooldowns rolling. That's a 24 sec Windbite with the power of all those cooldowns behind it. But Internal Release doesn't last that long and it's probably the shortest one you've got, so 3 seconds before IR falls off, you reapply Windbite even though it still has a lot of time left on it, that way Windbite is still enhanced by IR for its full duration even though IR fell off.
I'm not sure if that made sense... basically giving dots as much uptime while you're under the effect of a cooldown is going to so significant wonders for your dps even if you're clipping dots to do it.
So for instance your timeline might look like this:
Bunch of cooldowns up -> Apply all dots -> Do rotation for a while -> Cooldowns about to fall off but dots still have more than 3 seconds left on them -> Apply dots anyway and then don't clip these dots later because they're boosted.
So let's say Windbite lasts (number from my ... we won't get in to that) 24 seconds and you put it up as soon as you've got all your cooldowns rolling. That's a 24 sec Windbite with the power of all those cooldowns behind it. But Internal Release doesn't last that long and it's probably the shortest one you've got, so 3 seconds before IR falls off, you reapply Windbite even though it still has a lot of time left on it, that way Windbite is still enhanced by IR for its full duration even though IR fell off.
I'm not sure if that made sense... basically giving dots as much uptime while you're under the effect of a cooldown is going to so significant wonders for your dps even if you're clipping dots to do it.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
yup i can keep t at 840 consistantly with 100% WM and and no food on a dummy but thats while bein stationary teh whole time, as for cooldons rotation well here is what I do.
WM
apply windbite and venomous bite then flaming arrow, after that dump all my cooldowns (hawkeye, barrage, blood for blood, raging strikes, internal release), then hit flaming arrow, then sidewinder > bloodletter, then rotation which is:
Heavy Shot
Straight Shot
Iron Jaws
Empyreal Arrow
Heavy Shot
Straight Shot
Iron Jaws
repeat
while always hitting bloodletter when it pops and empyreal arrow and side winder when they pop (since they have a slower recast time than HS SS and IJ) as such they cant be used as 100% part of the rotation but instead as a "every single second it becomes availible" matter, while reapplying each cool down and flaming arrow as soon as they become available again.
So the only constant in that rotation is HH, SS, IJ while everything else is a "use the second it becomes available"
WM
apply windbite and venomous bite then flaming arrow, after that dump all my cooldowns (hawkeye, barrage, blood for blood, raging strikes, internal release), then hit flaming arrow, then sidewinder > bloodletter, then rotation which is:
Heavy Shot
Straight Shot
Iron Jaws
Empyreal Arrow
Heavy Shot
Straight Shot
Iron Jaws
repeat
while always hitting bloodletter when it pops and empyreal arrow and side winder when they pop (since they have a slower recast time than HS SS and IJ) as such they cant be used as 100% part of the rotation but instead as a "every single second it becomes availible" matter, while reapplying each cool down and flaming arrow as soon as they become available again.
So the only constant in that rotation is HH, SS, IJ while everything else is a "use the second it becomes available"
I'm not an expert on level 60 BRD so I can't get in to specifics about your rotation. I will say that looks like too much Iron Jaw, but I can't be sure without looking up all the various durations involved.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I'm not an expert on level 60 BRD so I can't get in to specifics about your rotation. I will say that looks like too much Iron Jaw, but I can't be sure without looking up all the various durations involved.
Yeah i came to that conclusion as well as the fact that barrage should only be used in conjuction with empyreal arrow, but even still my steady stanionary dps is only 850 isnt that too low for AS1 which expects combined DPS DPS to be 4k so 1k per dps? that means im about 150-200 DPS off
Are you using macros for any of the abilities? I seem to remember that being a horrible idea for dps.
Theonehio wrote:
Some people are really against WM.
WM sucked alotta soul out of the Job tbh
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1053318/
Quote:
but even still my steady stanionary dps is only 850 isnt that too low for AS1 which expects combined DPS DPS to be 4k so 1k per dps? that means im about 150-200 DPS off
AS1 requires between 6k and 7k raid dps to kill Faust and have a prayer at Oppressor. 850 is acceptable WAR dps, not BRD.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Bard's rotation also relies heavily on RNG - Heavy Shot is the work horse, with Straight Shot mixed in whenever the bonus procs, Bloodletter mixed in whenever it procs, and Iron Jaws every 5th global cooldown.
Internal Release should ideally be used before the DoTs are applied since the % boost to crit will apply to the DoTs, and then whenever it's back up just before Iron Jaws.
I start out with a Straight Shot before my two DoTs for the same reason as well and just pray I get a Heavy Shot to proc it before the 20 seconds is up.
Straight Shot on a proc and Bloodletter on a proc are also the two abilities you can still use while in motion, so you can keep spewing damage while dodging the more those two abilities proc.
I also always pair Barrage with Hawkeye, which isn't a big deal if your accuracy is capped but the last thing you want is to miss one of your Empyreal Arrows or Sidewinders.
I lose DPS whenever I end up missing Iron Jaws and have to restart the lower damage DoTs, which is the real reason why bards do better on target dummies than on actual mobs.
Internal Release should ideally be used before the DoTs are applied since the % boost to crit will apply to the DoTs, and then whenever it's back up just before Iron Jaws.
I start out with a Straight Shot before my two DoTs for the same reason as well and just pray I get a Heavy Shot to proc it before the 20 seconds is up.
Straight Shot on a proc and Bloodletter on a proc are also the two abilities you can still use while in motion, so you can keep spewing damage while dodging the more those two abilities proc.
I also always pair Barrage with Hawkeye, which isn't a big deal if your accuracy is capped but the last thing you want is to miss one of your Empyreal Arrows or Sidewinders.
I lose DPS whenever I end up missing Iron Jaws and have to restart the lower damage DoTs, which is the real reason why bards do better on target dummies than on actual mobs.
so i should ONLY use heavy shot and only hit straight shot when it get the yellow proc square around it? i tried that on a dummy once before and my dps still didnt improve
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
whats average brd dps?
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
so i should ONLY use heavy shot and only hit straight shot when it get the yellow proc square around it? i tried that on a dummy once before and my dps still didnt improve
Well yeah, it won't help on a dummy. But because Straight Shot can be cast while running and ignores WM, while Heavy Shot doesn't, the idea is that you cast Heavy Shot as much as you can to get the freebie proc on Straight Shot available for when you inevitably have to dodge.
Also of course recast Straight Shot whenever your debuff falls off, because you want that up.
Edited, Oct 28th 2015 1:44pm by Catwho
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