I thought the cash shop was supposed to make the game betterFollow

So we have to endure a cash shop in a p2p game, with more and more unique items being added to it all the time. It already puts many f2p games to shame in terms of scale. We are told not to worry and that all the money will go back into the game. Apparently this makes this double dipping justified.

The cash shop was already offensive to any p2p player, but they keep pushing the boundaries all the time. It's even affecting game balance with players begging for more space and being denied it, to sell more retainers and in game items not looking as special to sell more pretty outfits and mounts.

To the main point, since we have to endure this horrible cash shop shouldn't the game be getting better and not worse? should all this massive injection of cash actually be having a big impact on the game? Why was 3.0 so laughably poor, why is 3.1 one of the worst updates so far? I mean really, what is going on here?

Do they even care anymore? I really must be missing something because from what I see they are just putting more and more emphasis on the cash shop and not putting any of the cash shop money back into the game. In fact quite the opposite because the game seems to be getting worse and the devs are not listening.

1. I don't mind paying for retainers because it was the same pricing model they used in XI with mules, basically.
2. Nothing they've added has been game-altering for the people who couldn't afford it. Everything is a vanity item in one way or another.
3. I don't want anything from the cash shop. Therefore, I don't buy it. Problem solved.

When they start selling old titles from 1.0 on the cash shop, I'm going to raise an eyebrow. Until then, if it increases the odds of SE giving the XIV team a bigger budget next spring, I'm all for it.

It was, and in a game that old it kinda made sense. At the time server space really was at a premium and having a bajillion extra characters laying around taking up that space was a problem.

It isn't anymore.

I'm unsubbed right now so I can't pull my post from the official forums where I broke down just how much actual space a retainer takes up (it's measured in kilobytes) but suffice to say that it's negligible today. I don't buy the excuse about character saving bandwidth because that's a dirt simple problem to fix if it's real. No, the retainers are one area where SE is just completely out of line and being cash grabby about it.

Ironically it's the "casual" folks who discriminates against "hardcore" or "raiders" by stating this game isn't for them and they should all leave. There is nothing wrong with a cash shop, but the fact this game has a cash shop AND a sub fee and has less development than a F2P game or B2P game is just..astounding.

Also, Yoshi stated ARR was done completely with their own money so they didn't have to deal with investors "calling the shots."

All the assets of the company belongs to its shareholders and creditors. "Using their own money" means using their company's own assets for the game R&D. It turns out that Square Enix does not owe a lot of money (e.g. look at the debt-equity ratio; you can find that by searching Square Enix - stock ticker 9684 - in Google Finance, Financial Times or Morningstar...), so the most of the company assets can be claimed by shareholder if the company decides to liquidate itself (in which SE probably won't do...) You can even find out who the shareholders are; the largest are usually sovereign wealth, mutual and pension funds; e.g. searching Financial Times data, Vanguard (the world's largest mutual fund company) owns 1% of Square-Enix, and Norges Bank Investment (acting on behalf of Norway government) owns 0.6% of Square-Enix. So if Yoshi P gets naughty, Vanguard or Norges Bank folks can complain about it all the way from Philly and Oslo.

Learning some basics about finance and economics is good for you. Since I have seen you around for a while, so I assume you are at least in your 20s? You should really think about opening a Roth or Traditional IRA (US), ISA (UK), or something similar etc. to make sure you have money set aside for the future.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2015 3:35pm by scchan

I'm no business major, but I assume that corporations outside of the US deal with different laws, regulations and restrictions than they do inside the US. I can only speculate on how it would go down here in the states, but I'll refrain from doing so because ultimately it doesn't matter. Regardless of how the laws work, the fact that SE has 'written off' the losses from XIV prior to ARR means that the project could not be salvaged at least from a financial standpoint.

As far as the cash shop goes, I stated long ago that there was a way it could be handled to step on the fewest toes. As per usual, I also voiced my concern in SE being able to find and traverse that path so this really comes as no surprise. I will say that I do prefer how the cash shop works in my MMO of choice at the moment.

TERA does offer items that can only be introduced into the game by cash shop purchases, but these items can also be sold in-game through the auction house. If I want that new holiday outfit or reindeer mount I can either purchase it through the cash shop or purchase it with in-game gold. I much prefer this option. I can spend time outside the game working for money to afford items or I can spend time in-game farming for the gold to afford it.

It provides players who wish to play the game completely free(minus the opportunity cost of the time spent farming gold rather than working IRL) the chance to do so AND it allows players who don't have the means to farm the chance to obtain the items. On top of that it's fair because there is no subscription fee for the game. Not only that, but it allows players who don't have the means to farm gold an opportunity to trade store items for gold that can be used to purchase items that aren't available through the cash shop. Everyone wins.

Can you sell XIV's cash shop exclusive items in the market wards? Can you even sell non-exclusive cash shop items in the wards?

Well they did outsource much of the game's development to China. I guess it's only fair that we allow them first crack at RMT.

Honestly the one time I actually contacted a GM over an in-game issue I received a pretty quick reply and great service. No complaints there from me.

The underlying issue:

Players feel like their subscription fee is paying for content updates. It reflects poorly that SE is asking them to pay more money for alternate content when they already don't feel like they're getting their money's worth. That's not my personal opinion, but that's what I pick up from people who have left feedback about it.

"You barely provide me with enough content for what you ask me to pay in subscription fees, why are you asking me for more money?"

I don't personally care about fashion, pets or mounts but this is the sentiment I get from most of the feedback I've seen against cash shops. I don't feel like it always takes away from normal content development, but my personal position is based on seeing it work well in other games. People are quick to stamp any cash shop with the 'cash grab' tag, but it doesn't always have to be that way. If your player base doesn't feel like their subscription fee is going far enough then I can see how it would feel that way.

I'm a bit past my 20s and I know all of this, especially on the Japanese side of things - my point was more that yoshi stated with ARR they had to answer to no investors and trust me, I'm the LEAST likely person to believe a lot of what he says since I know more than enough about this industry from both sides of the equation, I just thought it was funny despite all the money XIV is supposedly making and with "no investors to pay off" there's extremely shallow content development, yet XI has literally no dev staff let alone kits to continue development (far more believable) but they still manage even small updates every month and over its life time, some pretty major additions. I have my future secure, though in Japan it's a bit weird for lack of going into a long drawn out post on that, but I'm not a dual citizen (kinda can't be), so even my time in America I have no benefits or able to get said benefits, so I had everything squared away by time I hit 23 thanks to some family business.

ARR's extreme vertical progression is what's really hurting things and if they're understaffed or no funding then I'd believe the shallow content update, but then they waste time on content like Lords of Verminion and Gold Saucer. If they know they're suffering, they should funnel it into something more important.

"It may not be important to you but it is to me!"

Thing is, this game wouldn't survive on minigames and glamor alone. If that's the case Gold Saucer and LoV should be the highest used content - Chocobo Racing should still be the key content and MGP grind and queues should be instant due to how many people are congesting it to the point the only reason you should take a long time is if the servers are crashing due to mass instance demand of Chocobo Racing.

That isn't the case.

I don't mind them since when I'm all said and done for the week with all of my progression content (which takes only a day, two at the slowest) I'll need something to do, right? Yet even if I wanted to do LoV all I can do is challenges because..even on Balmung..EXTREMELY few people are playing it. So that's why I say "it's a waste" simply because the content didn't even last until the end of the patch cycle. Like I said before, not everything in XI was a hit, but they balanced content in a way every thing was relevant in some way until Ilvl introduction which even then they created versions of old content to supplement the ilvl progression - as in AF/AF2/Empyrean reforging. Just simple stuff like that could go a long way.

A big problem with ARR is it's bland and HW was the chance to change that, the game is far too simplistic to be releasing content even obsolete the same day. Bismarck? He was just a pointless gate to Ravana Ex. I love gates because I strongly believe if you can't complete content, you simply didn't earn the right to get past it. I don't care if that seems "Selfish" but why should everyone be able to experience everything without putting in the effort? Time commitments or not, it was never a problem (and still not) in other MMOs because it simply means you won't get to experience x content until you put in the time. If you have the time to wipe someone 728 times in every other content, you have the time to get past a gate. All RPGs have gated content, all MMOs do as well, the fact "everyone deserves everything" is part of why content is in such a hectic state. It's admirable to want to appease them, especially since they shovel in money as is, but it's really not a bad thing to want SE to do more..to do better, but instead get told "No! I like my game with no content because I don't play more than an hour and 30 minutes a week so I have plenty to do! Go away!"

In all reality, this game has a sub fee and cash shop - I can load up Mabanogi and get more bang for my buck that I didn't spend. I know your sub fee only grants you access, but when you think about it from a business perspective, SE double dipped - It should be the best MMO on the market, bar none. It is not though. I don't care if someone says "it's subjective!" There's just some things you simply can't over look. When an MMO you have to pay absolutely nothing for (or a small fee like GW2) offers so much more and does exactly the same style gameplay..why can't SE...SURPASS that? It's SE..known for their creativity and going above and beyond..the companies that pushed the RPG genre mainstream - They should not be struggling to get past Korean throwaway MMO status. It should be making me regret every second that I play because I don't want to stop playing because I'm so absorbed into the world.

But alas the servers would crash if they offered us a non "hey go buy more retainers!" solution. Or "we have no staff to offer more difficulty options."

Like god damn, go get the FFXI interns to make your content, they created damn near 3 versions of content that existed between 2002-2012 simply by reusing assets, stop trying to get fancy with battlefields that you only utilize 10% and have 90% of "atmosphere" and stop worrying about "Oh players may not want BLMs..." because a lot of reasons he's against certain designs is simply what players MAY do...that they already do now.

So while a cash shop is supposed to help (as proven in every other game thats turning more profit than XIV) I don't believe it takes away from XIV but merely, they know they'll make money on it and would rather get easy money, which I can't blame them, easy money? Who wouldn't take it?

But they seriously..need to rethink their formula. It may work now but if this was any other MMORPG, we all know people wouldn't be as accepting. Blizzard learned this very quickly with their recent outings and the MMO community were very quick to damn them for bad design..not sure why the XIV community is hesitant to do the same, it could push SE to rethink things and do better. People like the game, sure..but just compare XIV to other MMOs, even its brother FFXI and DQX (since yoshi was lead designer) - You like the game now but..isn't it a bit odd older, more restricted MMOs can offer essentially more? It's not even an age thing (14 years + 4? Years of DQX) it's just...with their other games, you may hear (console limitations) but you never heard "Well...we don't have the people to develop content and well..the servers will crash if we offer inventory expansion that every other MMO does."

I'm not even being negative or anything, it's just...whether you like the game or not, there's seriously something wrong.

The funny thing is, it all depends on when you ask those people. If you ask before it is introduced and SE has not mentioned a cash shop yet, many of those people will claim they hate it and would quit instantly if it was introduced because this game has a sub fee and cash shop is f2p bs. Then retainers are introduced and those people start saying "well that is not the same thing at all, so I will stay, I actually like this change". Then after a while SE says a cash shop is coming, the people who were crying they would quit will now all of a sudden won't quit and actually support SE in their decision because SE needs to make money just like everyone else.

Overall though I think it is more what you said earlier where if the game is satisfying people they won't really mind having a cash shop even with a sub fee (as long as it does not ruin the economy). The problem is that when people are not at all happy with the content and they see SE spending time and money on a cash shop they get a bit bothered.

Right there. How many pages of stuff in the cash shop now?? They wont even think of good rewards for raiders but they can for those who spend their money!!

I think what makes most angry those that defended the cash shop said it would lead to new content and make the game better.. It has not, yet we get the same cookie cutter recycled over abused dodging dungeons and content.
Honestly I really dont care much either way about the cash shop even though I dont care for it. I just want some new content..

We have a expansion we paid for that added little to the game, some flying mounts which is cool and a short story.

I feel SE sits around and spends more money trying to figure out how to get more money and I realise it is a business and they want to make more money.. Here is a word advice, make a better game if you want more money to stop people from leaving,.

FFXIV does not suffer from lack of content it suffers from lack of new original content.

I guess that is what you get from a group that basically copied a game. A new original idea not.

This whole thing you can always leave people keep saying.. Well maybe in a year or so you are going to wish that people never said that and wished maybe Square Enix would have listened to these people... To me those just tell people to just leave are the ones who really do not care about the game anyway. If people really cared they would also be thinking of ways to better the game so people do not leave and the game grows. That is how everyone benefits.

You know what one persons argument was on the official forums. They like the content now so SE should not bring any new content out.. Really even if SE brought out new content you do not have to do it.. If you want to run WP 1000 more time you can.. Why are people afraid of SE adding something new to the game.

Why are people afraid of new content?
People are telling people they should not want better content.. Really who do you think you are? People should always strive for better in game and in real life and so should the developers of a game.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2015 9:33am by Nashred

I think the biggest reason why they don't put Ex Primals in the relic quest is because could possibly create a huge inequity in how players are able to progress. On one end, you'd have the hardcore players who have this stuff on automatic farm mode just burn through them; on the other end, you'd have everyone else struggling to get wins. Even if you completely know the fight, it's so hard to win some Ex primal fights if even one or two other people are clueless (or even if they know most of the fight, but not all of it).

It goes back to how most of the difficulty in this game isn't about the actual fights, but finding seven other people who can do them in lock-step with you. By keeping harder content out of the equation, the relic quest is something anyone with free time can chip away at without being held back by others. If SE were to crank up the difficulty, then suddenly casual/midcore players lose their abilities to progress, even when they do their diligence to prepare as much as anyone else.



I interpret this less as a commentary on difficulty, and more a matter of what I keep saying about FFXIV being a game that's made mostly with casual players in mind. Hardcore players are meant to farm their gear from the top-tier raids/Thordan.... the relic quest/Diadem is meant to satisfy the rest of us.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2015 11:33am by Thayos

Man, even the reddit people are worried...that's a first.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3xzal4/so_has_the_live_letter_32_given_you_hope_nay_or/?sort=new