I dont like the sound of thisFollow

Those two statements are not mutually exclusive if you just stand back and read them without projecting your biases all over them.

They like the idea of building a weapon over the course of an expansion AND they're thinking of dedicating an area (probably Eureka) to relic building. That probably means that this area will have some large part to play in a few of the upgrade steps.

Like Callinon said, no reason why both can't be true. The relic process is what it is though. Eureka or not, expect a grind.



Edited, Mar 27th 2017 10:36am by Thayos

More like why are they talking about "how happy" they are with it like it was something new they just tested and hadnt done once before already also they stated they got the complaints about relic being rehasing of old content thus eureka would be specifically for relic and even if it wasnt id expect something COMPLETELY different from what weve been doing

Grind is fine as long as the activities are varied enough to make it fun. I mean FFXI relic was a grind too. But I never had to do the same dungeon 167 times to complete it. Not to mention I could only enter dynamis once every 3 days so doing it twice a week wasnt often enough to feel like a chore as opposed to doing it back to back 20+ times

I have enjoyed the time spent playing to get my relic!

They can't be happy with something they've done twice? It stands to reason they were pretty happy with the way the 2.x Zodiac weapon worked given the 3.x Anima weapon line was pretty similar. Though I could've done with fewer tomestone grinds myself.

I expect the 4.x relic line to be similar in that it'll be doing some kind of long content grind that's relatively easy compared to savage raiding but takes a great deal more time. If they want to involve Eureka in that, then I want to see HOW they involve it before I decide whether I like it or not.

If you're expecting something completely different, you're intentionally setting yourself up for disappointment and future complaining.



You....what? The FFXI relic was a solid grind of either Dynamis for currency or gil farming to buy currency. That's all it was. There were a couple of fights sprinkled into your grinding, but it was a solid grind wall gated by weekly lockouts. In what way was that not running the same content over and over again?

The only time I ever did a zodiac or anima step in anything that could be described as "back to back 20+ times" was light farming, and in that case we're talking about repeating a fight that takes 2 and a half minutes a bunch of times for a 2 hour window. And then you stop for a while. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but that never really bothered me that much because the individual fights don't take all that long. Actually it helped me learn to optimize my NIN rotation back in 2.x grinding Garudas.

Um last I checked instant gratification means getting something with little to no effort... i.e EVERYTHING in WoW compared to ANYTHING in FFXI pre 2013. I wouldnt call doing the same dungeon 100+ times instant gratification by any means. As for what "forces" you do it back to back. Its called not wanting to take so long doing it that by the time YOU finally got it everyone and their mama has had it for weeks/months an its "old news" now. So yeah I could run a dungeon once a day but at that rate itll take 3 months and a new one will be out lol. If they made the content grindy or hard enough that only a few ppl WOULD do it then you wouldnt feel obligated to get it "soon" as long as you got it at all cause youd know youre one of the few ppl that have it... i.e relic in FFXI was still "cool to get that guy to get it" even if you achieved it long after it was already 5 years old.


And no we have time gates because SE has an issue with players with more time being able to get stuff faster than player with little/les time to play. So they penalize those of us who can play all day to "balance" things for those who cant

Yeah, it wasn't. A dungeon takes half an hour minimum if your group is a bunch of rockstars. A trial for light takes 2-3 minutes with an average group of PF people. Not even close to the same thing. Furthermore, one dungeon MIGHT not be enough. For instance when doing the umbrite step I made it a point to farm 1 umbrite per day (took me about 2.5 months to complete the step) so that I didn't burn myself out running dungeons constantly. But even with that limitation on, getting to some multiple of 300 lore sometimes did require multiple runs in a day to do. So playing casually, it took quite a while.

I believe I mentioned in my comments above that I could've done with fewer tomestone grinds. It was overused for the Anima series, epitomized by umbrites. Even the step after that (singing clusters) which was essentially just MOAR LOAR again had daily and weekly quests associated with it. I got that done MUCH faster. Only about 2 weeks to complete that step and I didn't even end up buying all that many clusters with lore.



Yeah that's true. That reminds me of the animus books from the zodiac weapon series, which was my favorite step in that chain because it let you vary your content consumption and have guaranteed progress over a period of time not reliant on rng. The problem with something like that though is that it has to take long enough. The relic weapon has to take a long time. That's what it's for. It's a substitute for savage raiding. You get an equivalent weapon, but you're substituting time investment for player skill and/or group management. The relic weapon HAS to take a long time to do. Even with the animus books, the roadblock wasn't the book content, it was affording the books which cost a huge pile of tomestones each. So there's always going to be something. It's always going to be a grind. It has to be.

The quest forces you to and it's the same reason people spam AS1 for the light phase. You can do "numerous things" or you can do the one efficient thing. Maybe it's different on your DC, but at least on Aether where I did a relic for my alt, they seem to spam ARF/AS1/Ravana for a few reasons.

It's why I've always said there's virtually 0 reason to force players into obsolete content for new content/relic weapon, which is why it's quite easy to know how 4.x relic will go too.

As in I guarantee they'll "discover" items in 2.x/3.x dungeon which means spamming older dungeons again or running obsolete content for a once a week item, or spamming the most efficient older dungeon for tomes for the same item. You can do numerous things but players like efficiency, even casual players, as most of the game is designed for casual play, afterall.

Uh, you're wrong.

Instant Gratification is when you want something, but you want it RIGHT NOW. You don't care what it takes, you just want it NOW.

IRL, when you go to the store and you see that shiny... let's say a brand new TV and you look at that TV, but it's more expensive than you can afford.

One person will go "I'll ask for some overtime over the next couple weeks and I'll make me some extra money and buy that TV with my overtime pay."

The second person goes "I WANT IT NOW!" And whips out a Credit Card so he can have that TV right now, regardless of the fact he can't afford it. That's instant gratification. The "I WANT IT NOW!" mentality.

Usually, it doesn't pay off in the long run.

When applied to an MMORPG, it's the players who MUST consume the content AS FAST AS THEY CAN and the only thing stopping them is Time Gates, such as lockouts. That's why lockouts exist, because if they did not, you know that people would be raiding 24/7 until they got all their drops and then they would sit and complain that the game is lacking content or some dumb BS after they full-cleared the raid in 2 days.



I never said it was.



Yup. "I GOTTA HAVE IT NOW!" Mentality.

Who flippin' cares who else has it right now? Seriously. You're going to slave away doing some "unfun" activity over and over again to get it as fast as you can... and then what are you going to do once you have it? Strut around in town showing off that thing that several other people got, too? Pixels on a screen?

Seriously. This is a game. Progression is in this game so that people can have fun working towards making their character better. If you focus on the progression but yet somehow miss the journey there, that's when the game becomes unfun. That's why people like you are constantly whining about such stuff. You forgot this is a GAME. You forgot you're supposed to be having FUN.

You've forgotten that amidst all the "GOTTA HAVE IT NOW!" shinies.

See, I'm not like that. I haven't even been to HW yet. Am I concerned about powering through HW to get to the current Raid and 270 relics? No. In fact, I really couldn't care less about the 270 relics or whatever else is at endgame right now. The only thing I will say is that I would like to be Stormblood-Ready by June. Or at least something close to that, because yes I would like to see the areas where everybody else is.

As far as loot and getting the best stuff possible? No. I want to see the sights. I want to have fun doing a little crafting, exploring. I wanna throw on a swimsuit and swim around in the beautiful waters that I saw in the trailers.

Getting loot is fun, but yet getting loot should be a byproduct of the activity that gives said loot. The focus is supposed to be on doing the raids, fighting the bosses. You get rewarded for doing this, and it's great to earn a reward. But if you focus on the reward, you tend to forget that working towards the reward is supposed to be fun, too.



There's a difference between 1 a day and 20 a day. If one a day takes you 3 months... okay, then do 2-3 a day and you've shaved it down to 2-4 weeks.

20 times a day is just ludicrous.



They don't want players whining about a lack of content/"nothing to do" because they hungrily wolfed down what was put in front of them like a rabid starving dog that hasn't eaten in 10 years.

I swear, if we compared this behavior of MMORPG players like you to eating, you'd be 500lbs because you'd be constantly gobbling down food and then complaining that we're not giving you enough food, fast enough.

At what point does the lust for better gear end? That's the problem: it doesn't. You've forgotten about the journey there. You've forgotten what progression in a game is really supposed to be about.

These are among the reasons why I like this game more than I liked WoW.

They play similar gameplay-wise, but overall design... IMO, XIV wins hands-down.

1). No stupid forced PvP or PvP griefing. PvP is kept on a tight leash in this game. And that's awesome. Yes, I know, WoW got rid of accidental flagging right at the end of Mists, not too long before I quit, but still. That didn't stop people from trying to goad you into a fight.
2). Far better community. I don't see even 1% of the stupid crap I'd see in WoW. The worst XIV has that I've seen, is gilseller shouts, lol. Easily ignored.
3). Smaller Groups. I hated waiting on a 25-man raid in WoW to be put together.
4). All dungeons are still relevant, even at max level, including some Full Party content.
5). The ability to change class instead of needing one character for every class, that you gotta repeat so much crap on.
6). The ability to have all crafts on one character.

And of course, the things that Thayos mentioned above, too. I used to hate the fact that it was "Get a Raiding Guild or stop as soon as you hit max level" crap that WoW was. Once you hit max level, and did a few Heroic Dungeons..... you were done without a raiding guild. There was pretty much nothing else to do other than LFR which was severely nerfed in both difficulty and reward, to the point it wasn't even worth doing in Warlords.

EDIT: There was one awesome exception: Timeless Isle. Sadly, too many people whined endlessly about it and it doesn't seem like they ever brought the idea back. Ah well, I quit WoW anyways. XIV's got more than enough for me to have fun with.

Edited, Mar 27th 2017 8:57pm by Lyrailis

Obviously, if people are complaining about the grind, then they are simply not having fun. So yes, I think Thayos is right. He is having fun on the actual journey to getting his relic done. The people who are spamming the same dungeons repeatedly and then whining about the grind are not actually having fun. If they were having fun, they wouldn't be complaining about the grind.

They are only doing it because they want the shiny, not because they are having fun getting the shiny which goes back to what I said in response to Duo -- it is supposed to be the JOURNEY that is the focus, not the end reward.

Focusing on the end reward makes you miss the forest for the trees.

I used my Zeta for quite a while after HW launched.

In any event though, if the relic was built for the entire game as you suggest, you run into a problem when a new player comes in at expansion 7 or 8 and now in order to "catch up" they have to do 8 expansions worth of relic progression which probably represents 15 years of work. How is that supposed to work?

FFXIV is a vertical game. It's never going to not be a vertical game. And in a vertical game, the next expansion is supposed to offer more powerful advancement than the expansions before it.

You build a relic across an expansion. As the expansion goes on, it continues to grow until you're done at the end of the expansion. There's nothing wrong with that. You even get a little leg up on the next one if you finish as a bonus for finishing; that's pretty cool.