I have a predilection for number crunching, but unfortunately there is a lot of lacking data (being a new game and all), so I thought I'd start a thread where we begin to gather some info on how much stats actually increase things. I logged on real quick and did a few myseld, but my gear has mostly vit/will and power/morale bonuses so my fate/might/agi data is going to lack. I need to finish up a paper due soon (but it is oh so boring) so the info will not be as pretty as I'd like it to be.
Lvl 15 Hobbit Minstrel
1 Vit = 3 Morale max
1 Will = 3 Power max
0 armor = 2.2% common mitigation
85 armor = 10.6% common mitgation
190 armor = 14.7% com mit
279 armor = 17.4% com mit
Vit 58 = 6.0% wound resist
Vit 47 = 5.6% wound resist
Vit 58 = 4.2% disease resist
Vit 47 = 3.9% disease resist.
I think the vi/will and morale/pwoer ratios are constant for all levels. I also think it's safe to assume armor gives diminishing returns (as expected), 0-279 armor gave 18.09 armor per percent mitigation. 0-190 armor gave 15.2 armor per percent mitigation.0-85 armor gave 10.12 armor per percent mitigation.
0-85, 85 armor increase, 8.4% com mit increase
85-190, 105 armor increase, 4.1% com mit increase
190-279, 89 armor increase, 2.7% com mit increase
So the decay is floating at just above half life for me. At 370 armor I'd probably see 1.4% mitigation increase for a total of 18.8%. Level 15 hobbit minstrels have then a ceiling of about 19%-20% com mit. I'd love to see some guardian numbers (I even heard the formulas for them are different than other heavy armor wearers).
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 4:36am by AllegoryJr
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Interesting! I read this this morning and logged into see if I couldn't give you some Captain data and was immediately yelled at by the server to log off so they could patch.. hehe So no data for you!
I learned that a naked Capt still has a base armor of 3
I learned that a naked Capt still has a base armor of 3
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Captain data would be nice so I can see if class matters at all for armor/stats, and you probably have a lot more might gear than I do.
As for the base 3 armor are you sure you don't have a virtue like loyalty equipped that gives you an armor bonus?
As for the base 3 armor are you sure you don't have a virtue like loyalty equipped that gives you an armor bonus?
Now that you mention it, I'm certain that I do. Good catch. You mean I'll have to spend valuable silver to look at my base stats?? 
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
There's no big difference between 0 and 3 (wouldn't you love to be my banker?) so no worries. And don't go to the trouble of dishing out silver un/equipping traits.
I would like at least 3 or 4 different armor amounts though, so I can try to construct a regression.
I would like at least 3 or 4 different armor amounts though, so I can try to construct a regression.
Ack don't sticky this, it's so messy and unfinished.
I plan on making this into a full on stat explanation/guide eventually, but it's nothing right now. Besides if this gets stickied then I won't get the karma rate ups on my main.^^
Oh cra~
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 10:26am by Allegory
I plan on making this into a full on stat explanation/guide eventually, but it's nothing right now. Besides if this gets stickied then I won't get the karma rate ups on my main.^^
Oh cra~
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 10:26am by Allegory
Allegory wrote:
Ack don't sticky this, it's so messy and unfinished.
I plan on making this into a full on stat explanation/guide eventually, but it's nothing right now. Besides if this gets stickied then I won't get the karma rate ups on my main.^^
Oh cra~
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 10:26am by Allegory
I plan on making this into a full on stat explanation/guide eventually, but it's nothing right now. Besides if this gets stickied then I won't get the karma rate ups on my main.^^
Oh cra~
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 10:26am by Allegory
ROFL
Captain info
Will info is kind of weak since I didn't disable my Man of the 4th Age trait (costs 20+ sp to take off and another 20-odd to replace)
===ARMOR=== ARMOR COMMON DMG 3 2.9% 25 7.7% 48 9.4% 86 11.6% 101 12.3% 162 14.7% 176 15.2% 198 15.9% ===VITALITY=== VITALITY WOUND DMG MORALE 30 5.0% 682 34 5.1% 694 38 5.3% 707 42 5.4% 719 50 5.7% 743 ===WILL=== WILL POWER 43 521 47 533 51 545 ===AGILITY=== AGILITY EVADE 22 2.9 26 3.1 32 3.3
Will info is kind of weak since I didn't disable my Man of the 4th Age trait (costs 20+ sp to take off and another 20-odd to replace)
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Thanks for the numbers Jophiel.
I got a lot of data from Tomec as well, and it will tkae me awhile to sort through much of it. But I'll go ahead and post his armor numbers.
15 Human Champion
ar 0, mit 3%
ar 73, mit 10.8%
ar 96, mit 12.2%
ar 139, mit 14.1%
ar 166, mit 15.1%
ar 190, mit 16%
ar 206, mit 16.6%
One thing inteesting about the data Tomec sent me is that there are several isntances where he had the same armor, but different mitigation percentages. It's then I realised something that is blatantly stated in the tool tip, but I had missed because I didn'te xpect it. Might also reduces common damage. This makes the situation more complex and troublesome. So the above is not pure data.
Here's Tomec's data with the same 206 armor, but different might values.
Might 77, mit 16.6%
Might 83, mit 16.8%
Might 93, mit 17.0%
Might 106, mit 17.2%
From this I think it is safe to say three things. The first is that armor and might affect common mitigation additively, one is not a coefficient of the other. This is supported by the fact that even with zero armor we still had common mitigation. Second that might also adds diminishingly to common mitigation, supported by tomec data (an increase from 77 to 83 might, 6 might difference netted .2% mit increase; 93 to 106 might, 13 might difference, .2% mit increase. And third that for minstrel, captain, and champion armor and strength use the same equations to determine common mitigation. Jophiel's and Tomec's armor number were similar to mine, but slightly higher as they had more might.
What I'd like to find out next is if the decay rates for might and armor are the same (I'd assume so), and if so then what the ratio is between them.
I got a lot of data from Tomec as well, and it will tkae me awhile to sort through much of it. But I'll go ahead and post his armor numbers.
15 Human Champion
ar 0, mit 3%
ar 73, mit 10.8%
ar 96, mit 12.2%
ar 139, mit 14.1%
ar 166, mit 15.1%
ar 190, mit 16%
ar 206, mit 16.6%
One thing inteesting about the data Tomec sent me is that there are several isntances where he had the same armor, but different mitigation percentages. It's then I realised something that is blatantly stated in the tool tip, but I had missed because I didn'te xpect it. Might also reduces common damage. This makes the situation more complex and troublesome. So the above is not pure data.
Here's Tomec's data with the same 206 armor, but different might values.
Might 77, mit 16.6%
Might 83, mit 16.8%
Might 93, mit 17.0%
Might 106, mit 17.2%
From this I think it is safe to say three things. The first is that armor and might affect common mitigation additively, one is not a coefficient of the other. This is supported by the fact that even with zero armor we still had common mitigation. Second that might also adds diminishingly to common mitigation, supported by tomec data (an increase from 77 to 83 might, 6 might difference netted .2% mit increase; 93 to 106 might, 13 might difference, .2% mit increase. And third that for minstrel, captain, and champion armor and strength use the same equations to determine common mitigation. Jophiel's and Tomec's armor number were similar to mine, but slightly higher as they had more might.
What I'd like to find out next is if the decay rates for might and armor are the same (I'd assume so), and if so then what the ratio is between them.
Allegory wrote:
Thanks for the numbers Jophiel.
I got a lot of data from Tomec as well, and it will tkae me awhile to sort through much of it. But I'll go ahead and post his armor numbers.
I got a lot of data from Tomec as well, and it will tkae me awhile to sort through much of it. But I'll go ahead and post his armor numbers.
Have fun with that
Also, keep in mind, one of the other stats (but I forget which, vit I think) effects non-common damage mitigation also, and I think that you do gain a little from your armor also.
As for the armor factor thing you noticed with our mitigation being similar to your's but more because of the might... Well, you do wear medium armor too don't you? Right now that is what Champions and Capts are wearing also. I know at like 20 Champ gets heavy armor, not sure about capt though. So, that really isn't hat surprising to see the similar armor numbers.
Tomec the Wise wrote:
Also, keep in mind, one of the other stats (but I forget which, vit I think) effects non-common damage mitigation also, and I think that you do gain a little from your armor also.
Don't remind me...and yes vit reduces fire and shadow damage. Armor says it only reduces common damage.
Tomec the Wise wrote:
As for the armor factor thing you noticed with our mitigation being similar to your's but more because of the might... Well, you do wear medium armor too don't you? Right now that is what Champions and Capts are wearing also. I know at like 20 Champ gets heavy armor, not sure about capt though. So, that really isn't hat surprising to see the similar armor numbers.
Not surprising, but I had to verify that the same equations for armor are used across the three classes. Just like in WoW where warriors gain more ap from str than rogues it could be that some classes in lotro gain more from certain stats than others. I assume nothing!
You know what I think? I think some guardians (to see a larger difference) and loremasters want to give me their numbers. I certainly do.
Allegory wrote:
You know what I think? I think some guardians (to see a larger difference) and loremasters want to give me their numbers. I certainly do.
Bug gator? He has both I think, and his Guardian is twinked
I have a level 2 guardian i'll likely be playing a little more tonight with a friend who is going to be trying the game, i'd be more then willing to give you equally detailed info from him... however I don't exactly have much gear yet, he's just out of the starting solo instance thing and only level 2 >_>
I'll have to re-run the numbers except that I don't think I really have any Might gear. It's almost all Vitality, Will, Agility and Fate.
Oh, and Capt's get Heavy Armor at 20, same as Champs.
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 8:57pm by Jophiel
Oh, and Capt's get Heavy Armor at 20, same as Champs.
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 8:57pm by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Update. I just ran numbers with my guardian friend and found out something specific.
Conclusion: In regards to common mitigation 1 might = 1 armor.
Evidences for a level 15 dwarf guardian (and these numbers removed the =1% com mit dwarves receive).
might 65, ar 551, mit 25.7% (fully decked)
might 60, ar 381, mit 21.9% (without shield)
might 61, ar 519, mit 24.9% (removed might helm)
The first set gives a base to compare to. The second set tries to isolate armor as much as possible by removing a lot of armor and losing comparably little might. The third sey tries to isolate might by removing a lot of might and losing comparably little armor.
Without shield he loses 5 might, 170 armor, and 3.8% com mit. Without helm he loses 4 might, 32 armor, and .8% com mit. X=might, Y=armor.
5x+170y=3.8
4x+32y=.8
Solving this system of equations gets you x=~.02769 and y=~.02154. The ratio is 1might=1.3armor, but this is skewed by the fact that com mit receives diminhsing returns and in the situation with a large armor loss it lost a propotornately larger amount
We then did a second test to verify this.
He took off 4 might and lost .1% com mit. He then took off 32 armor and lost .7% com mit. It was a nearly one to one ratio again, with the difference likely being rounded.
Conclusion: In regards to common mitigation 1 might = 1 armor.
Evidences for a level 15 dwarf guardian (and these numbers removed the =1% com mit dwarves receive).
might 65, ar 551, mit 25.7% (fully decked)
might 60, ar 381, mit 21.9% (without shield)
might 61, ar 519, mit 24.9% (removed might helm)
The first set gives a base to compare to. The second set tries to isolate armor as much as possible by removing a lot of armor and losing comparably little might. The third sey tries to isolate might by removing a lot of might and losing comparably little armor.
Without shield he loses 5 might, 170 armor, and 3.8% com mit. Without helm he loses 4 might, 32 armor, and .8% com mit. X=might, Y=armor.
5x+170y=3.8
4x+32y=.8
Solving this system of equations gets you x=~.02769 and y=~.02154. The ratio is 1might=1.3armor, but this is skewed by the fact that com mit receives diminhsing returns and in the situation with a large armor loss it lost a propotornately larger amount
We then did a second test to verify this.
He took off 4 might and lost .1% com mit. He then took off 32 armor and lost .7% com mit. It was a nearly one to one ratio again, with the difference likely being rounded.
Beginning work on the armor equation. What a doozy.
What I've figured out so far:
1. First derivative must be positive for all values >0. Second derivative msut be negative for all vlaues >0. (This simply means diminishing returns, a graph that look something like a x^.5 graph).
2. The equation must add might and armor to form one variable, they cannot be multiplied as you can still have mitigation with zero armor.
3. They have not used WoW's forumla. With Wow you take armor/(armor+c) to get reduction, where c is a constant that varies based on level. When I took known mitigation values to known might and amor levels and solved for c I ended up with two very different values.
What I've figured out so far:
1. First derivative must be positive for all values >0. Second derivative msut be negative for all vlaues >0. (This simply means diminishing returns, a graph that look something like a x^.5 graph).
2. The equation must add might and armor to form one variable, they cannot be multiplied as you can still have mitigation with zero armor.
3. They have not used WoW's forumla. With Wow you take armor/(armor+c) to get reduction, where c is a constant that varies based on level. When I took known mitigation values to known might and amor levels and solved for c I ended up with two very different values.
ok cause I am a newb at thist stuff, never really mattered to me, I just want to look hawt!
Want some burglar numbers?
Want some burglar numbers?
Yes please.
I common mitigation for different levels of armor and might. But mainly from burglars (since you probably have a lot of it) I'm wondering how crit percentages work.
I common mitigation for different levels of armor and might. But mainly from burglars (since you probably have a lot of it) I'm wondering how crit percentages work.
do you have a specific methodology so that the various datasets you receive will all match up... or at least will all be meaningful? If so can you share it and if not might we help you develop one?
OldBlueDragon I would very much appreciate any help in organising information and creating a methodology, or anyhting else anyone may have to contribute.
My personal top priotity right now is to derive the common mitigation formula. To do this I need a large number of samples. Common mitigation percent, armor, and might are the three numbers I need.
I need preferably a guardian volunteer, as they'll have acess to the largest variance. What I wantis for the guardian to mix and match gear (startign at naked and working up to fully armored) and record their armor, might, and common mitigation for each combination. I'd like at least 8 somewhat evenly separated sets of numbers. So start nude, record, equip boots, record, equip your gloves as well, record, and so on.
I'll then check these numbers with smaller samples from other classes and amror levels to make sure they match up and are consistent.
This will give us the raw data we need to work with. Several things can be created form this, such as a scatter plot to give a gnerally idea of teh curve and allow players to estiamte their common mitigation. The second is that we can begin to work out and compare agaisnt real test equations.
I'm not sure what the absolute best way to go about this is, so opinions and input are appreciated.
Edited, Apr 21st 2007 12:57pm by Allegory
My personal top priotity right now is to derive the common mitigation formula. To do this I need a large number of samples. Common mitigation percent, armor, and might are the three numbers I need.
I need preferably a guardian volunteer, as they'll have acess to the largest variance. What I wantis for the guardian to mix and match gear (startign at naked and working up to fully armored) and record their armor, might, and common mitigation for each combination. I'd like at least 8 somewhat evenly separated sets of numbers. So start nude, record, equip boots, record, equip your gloves as well, record, and so on.
I'll then check these numbers with smaller samples from other classes and amror levels to make sure they match up and are consistent.
This will give us the raw data we need to work with. Several things can be created form this, such as a scatter plot to give a gnerally idea of teh curve and allow players to estiamte their common mitigation. The second is that we can begin to work out and compare agaisnt real test equations.
I'm not sure what the absolute best way to go about this is, so opinions and input are appreciated.
Edited, Apr 21st 2007 12:57pm by Allegory
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