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Champion-GuardianFollow

#1 Apr 24 2007 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
I have played a Guardian so far to level 12 after trying a Captain and Loremaster. For those other two classes, I found soloability to be quite difficult, particularly when adds are involved. Haven't died so far with the Guardian, even with as many as 3 adds.

One of the things I like most is the ability to chain moves together... it makes combat much more active and interesting. My question is regarding the Champion... does this class have damage mitigation that rivals a Guardian? How is the soloability with adds and whatnot?
#2 Apr 24 2007 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Captain isn't meant to be a tank in anyway. He's a group-bonus type of class. While he can wear good armor, he's in no way a tank, so treating it as such will only get you killed. The problem is it's a party-based class and you don't do much partying early on. Perhaps once people start getting higher up Captain will come into play more often, but early it's not as useful (or survivable).
#3 Apr 24 2007 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can take on multiple yellows (or an orange + a yellow add) with my Captain and survive. Captains aren't true defensive tanks but they're not especially fragile, either.

Back on point, Guardians are defensive tanks who wear heavy armor before anyone else. Champions are offensive 'tanks' so I'd imagine (though I can't say for sure) that their mitigation is inferior. Otherwise Guardians would be pretty pointless.
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#4 Apr 24 2007 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Champions strive best when we have on Fervor. This negates the ability to block parry or dodge any attacks, so we'll take more damage overall than a guardian for sure unless we're out of Fervor mode. We also don't get shields.
I know of no healing/buff spells to negate damage or restore morale, so we're completely reliant on others for sustainment.

That said Champions do have the armor & morale to go up against the tough stuff solo, but I'd rather a guardian for hate control overall.
#5 Apr 24 2007 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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113 posts
"Machaveli" wrote:
I know of no healing/buff spells to negate damage or restore morale...


Champions do have 1 attack (achieved at level 10?) that restores ~120 morale at the end of the attack. I've had my Champion at 15 for awhile and as I was building up my traits in open beta, my deaths were few and far between. My last death was when I ventured a bit too far into the Old Forest and encountered a swamp of level 18 bears. I killed 1 okay but the next bear aggro'ed me before I had a chance to recoup. It's definitely a fun class to play and I enjoy taking on 3-4 dark blues with my AE attacks.

I almost always play with Fervor on since I believe the Champion's damage output with the special attacks surpasses my defensive capabilities at my current level.
#6 Apr 25 2007 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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168 posts
Quote:
Back on point, Guardians are defensive tanks who wear heavy armor before anyone else. Champions are offensive 'tanks' so I'd imagine (though I can't say for sure) that their mitigation is inferior. Otherwise Guardians would be pretty pointless.


yeah judging by abilities like fervour and dual wield that champions get and that they can't use shields, and the general descriptions in the manual of champions as opposed to guardians all suggest that guardian is supposed to be a tank class while champion is a direct damage melee class.
#7 Apr 25 2007 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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504 posts
Champions can use shields as can Captains; however, Guardians are only ones able to use heavy shields. Heavy shields provide significantly more mitigation than regular shields.
#8 Apr 26 2007 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
Initial thoughts regarding Captain - This is one weak toon. I have played EQ and WOW and so far to level 17 I have never played a weaker character. I have named my pet "Clueless" because that is exactly what he is. He stands around too much in defensive mode and aggroes too many mobs in aggressive mode. I sincerely hope the captain is of more use in the later stages of the came.

I would like to see opinions on overpowered versus underpowered characters. My vote so far:

Underpowered: Captains

Overpowered: Guardians
#9 Apr 26 2007 at 12:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm suprised. I have very little trouble with my Herald; I usually have him set to Assist and, when I'm pulling from range and don't want him to run out there, I turn off Assist and just hit Attack when the mob is upon us. I've yet to find a need to play with Aggressive/Defensive modes.

But to each their own. If you think Captains suck, I guess you have six other classes to choose from.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#10 Apr 26 2007 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
I have a 15th Capt and I am able to manage quite well. I also keep my Herald on Assist mode. I try to have some potions handy, but dont often use them unless I get into a tight spot, and can usually only use one since the reset is 2 min. I went thru Great Barrow (Chapt 11) last night with a group ranging from 15-18 without a minstrel. I had to act as group healer/buffer and everyone was happy. I think I'll make a minstrel as they seem to get the most requests for grouping. :)

Regarding the guardian vs champion - I have not played a guardian, but my champion can mete out some nice damage. In the barrow, we had 2 champions and 1 guardian, and I was constantly throwing heals at the champs.
#11 Apr 27 2007 at 3:46 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks to everyone who has replied. I tried a Champion for a few levels, and I just don't enjoy the aggressive style of play... I seem to have too many buttons that just do damage without much of a strategy of what to use when.

I enjoy the reactive style of a Guardian much more, along with the fact that these guys seem built to generate aggro and be the true tanks. Learning in this thread that only they can use heavy shields solidified that point. I've done the dps role in other games, and I really want to try tanking in this game.

As to the last post about having to throw more heals at the Champions than Guardians... an obvious response is that the Champions would need to tone down their dps for the Guardian to hold aggro, but along with that the Guardian gets Traits (and also more skills, I believe) that will help him acquire and hold aggro (such as the Trait that makes Vexing blow hit multiple targets, etc).
#12 Apr 27 2007 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
You would think the Champion would have a skill to reduce aggro. Instead they have one that pulls mob focus. I think the Champions were using Fervor, thereby reducing their parry/dodge, so they had high dps and low defense.
#13 Apr 27 2007 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
Its amusing sparring as a Gaurdian. Every class ive fought has trouble beating me, im yet to lose.

Doesnt really mean much as the game wasnt designed for that kind of PvP
#14 Apr 28 2007 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
im a level 25 Champion, Guardians are of course gonna be better tanks, but 2 posts in this thread are wrong :)

Quote:
Champions strive best when we have on Fervor. This negates the ability to block parry or dodge any attacks, so we'll take more damage overall than a guardian for sure unless we're out of Fervor mode. We also don't get shields.


Wrong, we do get shields :)

Quote:
Champions can use shields as can Captains; however, Guardians are only ones able to use heavy shields. Heavy shields provide significantly more mitigation than regular shields.


Wrong, we get heavy shields through a class quest at level 35

Edited, Apr 28th 2007 9:39pm by lemski
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