A bit of a repetitive topic perhaps, but it is getting rather annoying. (not sure if this has been talked about before, search function doesn't work for me)
I tend to crash twice during one gameplay, once my screen freezes, I get lines all over it and I have to reboot. I restart everything and can play for well over an hour. Then suddenly the game crashes, I report the error to Microsoft (yes, I'm an optimist!) and start again. That usually goes well for long enough.
I didn't have these problems when I was playing with my one gig and old Radeon 9800 vid card (128 mb). But then I switched to NVidia with a geforce 7600 256mb DDR3 card. The driver that came with that card was old, no denying that, so after some looking and digging (as the official site only gave me the same driver as option) I found a very recent version. Doesn't really help much.
It has to be my vid card that is the problem, I think anyway. I've asked in my kinship and others share my problems that they occasionally also crash. Anyone here have bad experiences?
Can it be the game itself that isn't fully up to snuf?
Heck, I'm even considering just sticking my old vid card back in and just deal with the lag in Bree, with my 2 gig that should be less of a problem anyway. (strangely enough, I had a lot more problems switching my power supply, took over an hour before that worked, my vid cards were switched in under 15 minutes!)
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It must be your hardware, because i haven't had any problems like this yet. And I haven't heard too many other people having the same issues.
Based on your description of the symptoms, I think the problem lies in your video card. I understand that it has more vid ram than your older ATI card but the amount of vid ram isn't the only thing that determines the output quality of a video card. Number of pipelines, video CPU and a host of other factors need to be compared to decide which card is "best" for you.
Bottom line is if you already know that the other card looks better, just swap it back in until you can get a newer card to replace it with. A 128 card that looks good trumps a 256 card that crashes, no?
As far as lag and stutter with the ATI, have you tried turning down the graphics just while you're in a high load area (like Bree). Then when you leave town, ramp it back up again!
Bottom line is if you already know that the other card looks better, just swap it back in until you can get a newer card to replace it with. A 128 card that looks good trumps a 256 card that crashes, no?
As far as lag and stutter with the ATI, have you tried turning down the graphics just while you're in a high load area (like Bree). Then when you leave town, ramp it back up again!
In addition to that, you can also run into this kind of issue with a RAM problem. A high load (like that from a graphically intensive game) accesses the upper memory registers in the RAM. If there is a problem with it, the application will dump on you. When you get the error report, click details and post what they are.
I am inclined to think it's either a heat or power issue with the video card moreso than RAM since you didn't have the problems prior to swapping the card. Do you have heatsinks on the memory chips on the card? Do you have cooling close to or blowing directly on the card? Do you have enough airflow in the case? The card you put in there is going to generate more heat and pull more power. What is the PSU wattage? Higher output cards tend to have higher power requirements. Also, when you swapped the card, did you change the graphics settings in the game?
I am inclined to think it's either a heat or power issue with the video card moreso than RAM since you didn't have the problems prior to swapping the card. Do you have heatsinks on the memory chips on the card? Do you have cooling close to or blowing directly on the card? Do you have enough airflow in the case? The card you put in there is going to generate more heat and pull more power. What is the PSU wattage? Higher output cards tend to have higher power requirements. Also, when you swapped the card, did you change the graphics settings in the game?
It could be a heat problem, but I regularly check the nvidia panel for the heat. That does seem to be a constant at around 46°C, 50-60 when I'm playing. The treshold should be 115, never got a warning as yet.
There is a fan on the card itself, I know of other versions that have heat sinks, read some very bad reviews of those cards.
I had a 300watt psu, the card recommends 350. At the computer store, they said that even 300 should be enough, as the card rarely needs full power. But I did replace it with a 420watt psu. It took a while, but ultimately it does appear to work fine.
When I replaced the vid card, I let the game check for the optimal settings. Those were 'very high', but I put it at 'high' just to avoid any lag in busy places. It was medium before that, so the increase is pretty nice either way.
I think I'll go and find a demo of a very intense game, the new ones should be hard enough on my computer to see if anything happens then. It's a pity I've removed EQII from it, would have been interesting to see what happens at the highest settings.
Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you all posted!
There is a fan on the card itself, I know of other versions that have heat sinks, read some very bad reviews of those cards.
I had a 300watt psu, the card recommends 350. At the computer store, they said that even 300 should be enough, as the card rarely needs full power. But I did replace it with a 420watt psu. It took a while, but ultimately it does appear to work fine.
When I replaced the vid card, I let the game check for the optimal settings. Those were 'very high', but I put it at 'high' just to avoid any lag in busy places. It was medium before that, so the increase is pretty nice either way.
I think I'll go and find a demo of a very intense game, the new ones should be hard enough on my computer to see if anything happens then. It's a pity I've removed EQII from it, would have been interesting to see what happens at the highest settings.
Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you all posted!
The game itself does have some optimization problems, especially in Bree and zoning. The game seems to be more apt to crash at those times more then any other time... and totally at random. People will be playing hours on end (like you) and be fine, no lag, game runs like butter, etc. They hit bree or use swift-travel... *CRASH*
So the problem should be my vid card itself. Or so I think after trying out a demo game ("Attack on Pearl Harbor", don't like that game very much though) and a couple of seconds after starting it, the game crashes in the exact same manner as it does in LotrO.
Two options left, either install my previous vid card and just deal with the lesser memory and performance (but still my 2 gig should compensate a bit) or try and work things out. Went to the site of the company that made the card and created a ticket asking about this problem. No idea when or if I'll get an answer though. Frustrating though, I'ld hate to now have a card that I can't use after spending money on it.
Btw, anyone know of a way to test my RAM to see if there is a problem with that?
Two options left, either install my previous vid card and just deal with the lesser memory and performance (but still my 2 gig should compensate a bit) or try and work things out. Went to the site of the company that made the card and created a ticket asking about this problem. No idea when or if I'll get an answer though. Frustrating though, I'ld hate to now have a card that I can't use after spending money on it.
Btw, anyone know of a way to test my RAM to see if there is a problem with that?
Zieveraar wrote:
Btw, anyone know of a way to test my RAM to see if there is a problem with that?
Microsoft has a memory diagnostic program here:
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
Quote:
Microsoft has a memory diagnostic program here:
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
Thanks! I'll give it a go tomorrow, hopefully there are no problems with my memory, I'll soon know I guess.
Problem might be lack of power. Electricty. New videocards tend to use a lot of power. E.g. a friend of mine had random crashes with a 6600 GT card (AGP) (which already has an individual power connector on the card itself) and the 7800 GS (also AGP) just needs at least 450 Watt of power. To be exact ; a lot of amperes on the 12V 'rails'.
Basically Nvidia recommends to have at least 20 amps @ 12 Volt. You can't find this information often on sites which sell the PSU's ; it's only available on a sticker on the PSU itself.
Check these sites to learn more about videocards, random crashes and PSU's :
www.guru3d.com forum (thread)
and
http://forums.nvidia.com/ (thread)
Some quotes:
PSU's can vary a lot ; if you bought a complete system like a HP or Dell chances are high that your PSU is very limited, often not capable of dealing with a decent new videocard. I've bought a 350Watt PSU that just outputs 14 amperes @ 12 volt (wayyyy too low). But it was already too late ; I got the thing and could not return it (not profitable)...
It really is a bit odd but the powersupply is the least known item inside most players-PC's. And which the new powerhouses (GPU's that eat more Watt than your CPU) people might end up in trouble if they don't 'upgrade' their PSU too.
FYI there are insane 850W and even 1000+Watt powersupplies available for people with top-notch dual SLI-quad-videocards, overclocked CPU's upto 5 Ghz and a lot of drives, all eating their share of amperes ;)
Basically Nvidia recommends to have at least 20 amps @ 12 Volt. You can't find this information often on sites which sell the PSU's ; it's only available on a sticker on the PSU itself.
Check these sites to learn more about videocards, random crashes and PSU's :
www.guru3d.com forum (thread)
and
http://forums.nvidia.com/ (thread)
Some quotes:
Quote:
So for a GeForce 7900 GS NVIDIA recommends a 300-350 watt power supply with 22-23 ampere on the 12 volts rails. NVIDIA is recommending nothing too over-the-top in terms of wattage for the power supply unit, yet be aware as that's a lot of Ampage for a 12 volts rails. What we always do with new graphics' cards, we measure the wattage peak with the help of a wattage meter. Slight side note, you are looking at the overall usage of the entire PC.
Quote:
Gentile's comment is correct, and so is the recommendation for 20 amps on the +12 V rail.
The power supply is feeding everything in your system simultaneously. The video card works off of this + 12 V rail. A few people report that this card works fine on their PSU which has 16 or 18 amps on the +12 volt rail, but most people with 16 amps report problems. True, the card itself does not consume 20 amps, but most entire systems for gamers will.
The power supply is feeding everything in your system simultaneously. The video card works off of this + 12 V rail. A few people report that this card works fine on their PSU which has 16 or 18 amps on the +12 volt rail, but most people with 16 amps report problems. True, the card itself does not consume 20 amps, but most entire systems for gamers will.
PSU's can vary a lot ; if you bought a complete system like a HP or Dell chances are high that your PSU is very limited, often not capable of dealing with a decent new videocard. I've bought a 350Watt PSU that just outputs 14 amperes @ 12 volt (wayyyy too low). But it was already too late ; I got the thing and could not return it (not profitable)...
It really is a bit odd but the powersupply is the least known item inside most players-PC's. And which the new powerhouses (GPU's that eat more Watt than your CPU) people might end up in trouble if they don't 'upgrade' their PSU too.
FYI there are insane 850W and even 1000+Watt powersupplies available for people with top-notch dual SLI-quad-videocards, overclocked CPU's upto 5 Ghz and a lot of drives, all eating their share of amperes ;)
I'm running an 8800gtx, 2GB RAM, with a corsair 520hx psu. I still, on average, experience a crash once every hour or so, give or take. It's annoying, but not much you can do about it.
Also, just on the note of psu's. Don't be fooled just by what the wattage rating is on the box. What really matters (for you vid card) is how much amperage can be supplied on the 12V rails. This is simple to figure out.
- Find out what the wattage is on the 12V rail (should be on manufacturer website or if you can get a pic of the back of the psu)
- Divide that number by 12, since I=P/V. That is the maximum avaialbe current on the 12V rail. Also, buy a little more than you need to keep the psu running as cool and efficiently as possible and if you are doing something like sli for 8800s buy accordingly.
For my psu, it rated at 520watts, with 3 12V rails rated at 18A each. The total amperage on the 12V rail is not 18+18+18 = 54A. When looking at the label, you can see that 480W are on the 12V rails. I=480/12=40A on the 12V rails, which is sufficient for running 1 8800gtx.
You just have to be careful when reading wattages on the box. All 500W psu's are not created equal, for example. Some will have more or less wattage available to the different rails. Quality of manufacture is also an importnat consideration. I would not recommend buying a cheap psu from an unknown company just because it offers 700W.
Also, just on the note of psu's. Don't be fooled just by what the wattage rating is on the box. What really matters (for you vid card) is how much amperage can be supplied on the 12V rails. This is simple to figure out.
- Find out what the wattage is on the 12V rail (should be on manufacturer website or if you can get a pic of the back of the psu)
- Divide that number by 12, since I=P/V. That is the maximum avaialbe current on the 12V rail. Also, buy a little more than you need to keep the psu running as cool and efficiently as possible and if you are doing something like sli for 8800s buy accordingly.
For my psu, it rated at 520watts, with 3 12V rails rated at 18A each. The total amperage on the 12V rail is not 18+18+18 = 54A. When looking at the label, you can see that 480W are on the 12V rails. I=480/12=40A on the 12V rails, which is sufficient for running 1 8800gtx.
You just have to be careful when reading wattages on the box. All 500W psu's are not created equal, for example. Some will have more or less wattage available to the different rails. Quality of manufacture is also an importnat consideration. I would not recommend buying a cheap psu from an unknown company just because it offers 700W.
It took a while, but I think I've gotten a possible solution for my problem. The game itself seems to have stabilised too, haven't crashed for some days now ingame.
But after trying out the Ring screensaver (which is very nice btw), my computer crashed again, this time automatically rebooting and I was able to send a report to Microsoft regarding the crash. They even offered a possible solution! Ofcourse, since I have the most updated drivers (I hope anyway, not much offered on the official sites), they suggested to reduce the hardware acceleration.
Their suggestion is to put it at zero, possibly trying out increasing it slowly to see when the problem starts again.
I'm all for that, have reduced it a bit already, but what are the effects of the hardware acceleration option? Would it seriously alter my computer's performance?
If anyone got some info on this, I'ld very much appreciate it!
But after trying out the Ring screensaver (which is very nice btw), my computer crashed again, this time automatically rebooting and I was able to send a report to Microsoft regarding the crash. They even offered a possible solution! Ofcourse, since I have the most updated drivers (I hope anyway, not much offered on the official sites), they suggested to reduce the hardware acceleration.
Their suggestion is to put it at zero, possibly trying out increasing it slowly to see when the problem starts again.
I'm all for that, have reduced it a bit already, but what are the effects of the hardware acceleration option? Would it seriously alter my computer's performance?
If anyone got some info on this, I'ld very much appreciate it!
ive got to ask what you have textures set on...your crashing sounds exactly like what happened with mine when i would run ultra high, but i can play on high with no crashes at all...it could be as simple as the card over-heating yes.
1-turn all of your settings to low or off, and slightly increase them to see where you will crash ast
2-the newest drivers are not necessarily the best, maybe rollback will help
3-in game go to options then trouble shoot and turn your FPS down to 30-40 (default setting is max) and maybe turn your engine speed down
sorry thats really i can think of.
1-turn all of your settings to low or off, and slightly increase them to see where you will crash ast
2-the newest drivers are not necessarily the best, maybe rollback will help
3-in game go to options then trouble shoot and turn your FPS down to 30-40 (default setting is max) and maybe turn your engine speed down
sorry thats really i can think of.
Things I sometimes play...
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
"I want to be a unicorn!"
"Awww, why's that?"........
"So I can stab people with my face."
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
"I want to be a unicorn!"
"Awww, why's that?"........
"So I can stab people with my face."
Quote:
ive got to ask what you have textures set on...your crashing sounds exactly like what happened with mine when i would run ultra high, but i can play on high with no crashes at all...it could be as simple as the card over-heating yes.
It's not the game actually, I get this crash every time my card has to work a bit harder. In any game and now even in a screensaver.
It shouldn't be the heat either, it never goes over 60°C (and states that the treshold is about 115°C).
I've reduced the hardware acceleration a bit, so now I'll just wait and see, just wanted to see if anyone knows what exactly the effects are of turning this particular setting down.
Are you running Vista? There is a known problem with Vista and the current nVidia drivers. I just posted about it here.
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