i along with 6-7 friends have been playing lotro soon after its release--and playing regularly. we range in levels from 30th to 42nd.
we have thought once we reach 40th and can hit the ettenmooors the game would be much better since we are pvp fans.
while i have been enjoying the game, i think i can see the end of my enjoyment in the coming months.
i think the problem is that i do not fear my pc dieing---ever.
if my pc dies, all i have to do is pay some repairs....not a big deal. once you become higher level, or learn how to work the ah, money for repairs should not be an issue.
death is much too forgiving in this game. you do not lose equipment. you do not have any significant xp penalty. there is never threat from another pc. heck, being defeated can actually help you move to a different part of the map!
is the pvp in the ettenmoors going to give me that thrill? i hope so...i am only 32nd lvl now, but if the ettenmoors do not give me that something extra, i wonder how long i will stay with this game.
does anyone else think that being defeated/death is much too forgiving in lotro?
Edited, Sep 18th 2007 3:27pm by ChewPamela
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Well, I don't know about PvP since I am not interested in that piece but I can say that death at 50 sucks and sucks badly. Sure, there is no xp loss but the durability repair gets really expensive as your gear improves. My average repair bill on my champ ranges between 150s and 250s now depending on how long I've been taking a beating. And, depending on the number of deaths, you also run the risk of your gear breaking, which makes it completely useless til it is repaired (read this as the stats for said item no longer working on your character either for that item).
And to add to it, you also have a dread factor, which increases depending on your area and affects your overall morale. Now, in most areas, this isn't a really big deal but if you are working in a place like Angmar and get your a$$ kicked, you also end up getting hit with additional "cowering in fear" states in fights while the dread effect is active. This can make the average fight that you would normally win a real toss up for that 10 minute period. And when facing elites or signature mobs while this effect is on, it seems that I take considerably more damage from them even with my common damage resist as high as it is.
And to add to it, you also have a dread factor, which increases depending on your area and affects your overall morale. Now, in most areas, this isn't a really big deal but if you are working in a place like Angmar and get your a$$ kicked, you also end up getting hit with additional "cowering in fear" states in fights while the dread effect is active. This can make the average fight that you would normally win a real toss up for that 10 minute period. And when facing elites or signature mobs while this effect is on, it seems that I take considerably more damage from them even with my common damage resist as high as it is.
Crafting from cooking, weapon making, tailor skills, farming dye ingredience, and making jewlrey will keep me busy for awhile. I hunted large warg tails for 6 hrs Sunday just to make my newbee burgler some purple leather armor. Farming master items has been keeping me busy.
I am going to start farming (planting seed) this weekend. I have one toon top level 50, all top equipment, all my ledgendary spells, and grandmaster in 2 of the 3 tradeskill available. I don't play him much anymore but I do turn him on when I hear shouts for groups needing help. I'm having a riot playing some of the other classes in the game after all you can play 5 per server.
I tried to do the new reputation grind however my heart sank when I turned in enough items to hit the first 10,000 pts when the 2nd screen showed next level was 20,000. So I haven't been able to grind out the reputation quests. I could see alot of time being spent if one desires on the reputation part of the game.
So far I see no end to the game for myself. But, the end game is dependent on what you want out of the game. My thurst for fun hasn't been quenched yet.
I am going to start farming (planting seed) this weekend. I have one toon top level 50, all top equipment, all my ledgendary spells, and grandmaster in 2 of the 3 tradeskill available. I don't play him much anymore but I do turn him on when I hear shouts for groups needing help. I'm having a riot playing some of the other classes in the game after all you can play 5 per server.
I tried to do the new reputation grind however my heart sank when I turned in enough items to hit the first 10,000 pts when the 2nd screen showed next level was 20,000. So I haven't been able to grind out the reputation quests. I could see alot of time being spent if one desires on the reputation part of the game.
So far I see no end to the game for myself. But, the end game is dependent on what you want out of the game. My thurst for fun hasn't been quenched yet.
Quote:
...death is much too forgiving in this game... does anyone else think that being defeated/death is much too forgiving in lotro?
I don't. I agree that there is a near zero penalty in place but LOTRO is a casual game and the cost of dying is right in line with that style of play.
If you really want to suffer for your "mistakes", quit messing around with computer games and take up mumbly peg or Russian roulette.
11 posts
at this point, i still really enjoy the game....even the crafting(gm farmer, and master scholar so far).
i just seem to be realizing that the game is a huge grind.
-being a fan of tolkien, playing in places i read about in the novels is great.
my big 3 complaints:
1-death is too forgiving(i think paying even up to 300 silver in repairs is minor)
2-economy is out of wack at times: for ex.sometimes components for an item can be more costly than what the item sells for. ex. 2: you can get a better item from a drop than you can from a master crafter.
3-why must someone be 40 lvl to enter ettenmoors?
that being said, i would like to say that i have enjoyed this game greatly the last couple of months...and i do think i will keep enjoying it at least a couple of months more. My real hope is that i can enjoy this game for at least 2 years.....or until lotro 2 comes out.
i just seem to be realizing that the game is a huge grind.
-being a fan of tolkien, playing in places i read about in the novels is great.
my big 3 complaints:
1-death is too forgiving(i think paying even up to 300 silver in repairs is minor)
2-economy is out of wack at times: for ex.sometimes components for an item can be more costly than what the item sells for. ex. 2: you can get a better item from a drop than you can from a master crafter.
3-why must someone be 40 lvl to enter ettenmoors?
that being said, i would like to say that i have enjoyed this game greatly the last couple of months...and i do think i will keep enjoying it at least a couple of months more. My real hope is that i can enjoy this game for at least 2 years.....or until lotro 2 comes out.
ChewPamela wrote:
my big 3 complaints:
1-death is too forgiving(i think paying even up to 300 silver in repairs is minor)
2-economy is out of wack at times: for ex.sometimes components for an item can be more costly than what the item sells for. ex. 2: you can get a better item from a drop than you can from a master crafter.
3-why must someone be 40 lvl to enter ettenmoors?
1 I disagree since the game is designed on a very casual basis.
2 It's like this is most MMO's I've ever played, players can craft some nice stuff but traditionally crafted items are never as good as the dropped equipment. It's always been my opinion that crafting arms or armor is nothing more than a hobby and the items are nothing more than a stop gap between quest rewards.
3 Since you will be facing lvl 50 monster players, even level 40 is kind of low eh.
Technically you dont have to be higher then level 1 to enter the Ettenmoors...you can have a high level Captain summon you there. But you wont make it past the starting city.
Things I sometimes play...
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
"I want to be a unicorn!"
"Awww, why's that?"........
"So I can stab people with my face."
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
"I want to be a unicorn!"
"Awww, why's that?"........
"So I can stab people with my face."
You probably also want to be level 45ish to go in actually... Yes you can get there via summon at level 1, and level 40 for the horse path... But like Tsakiera said you're facing level 50 mobs. That doesn't mean you can't do some stuff at lower levels, but 45+ would probably be the best.
ChewPamela wrote:
my big 3 complaints:
1-death is too forgiving(i think paying even up to 300 silver in repairs is minor)
2-economy is out of wack at times: for ex.sometimes components for an item can be more costly than what the item sells for. ex. 2: you can get a better item from a drop than you can from a master crafter.
3-why must someone be 40 lvl to enter ettenmoors?
1. Your post is a contradiction. You said before this list that this game is a "huge grind" but yet you think 300s is minor for being defeated. So, which one is it, is it a huge grind that you don't like, or is it an easy game that you think should be changed a bit to add more of a grind. I don't know exactly what you want for being defeated. Do you want us to drop all our gear like Diablo 2? (lol)
2. All I can say about this is, everyone's server is different.
3. I think you should probably be only let in at 45+. I mean about the highest mob most can take without being creamed is a mob 5 levels above you, normal mob. Even at 45, you're facing level 50s, but except it isn't AI, it's a human controlling the creeps.
11 posts
raiden--
i do think the game is a huge grind(after all, aren't most of the quests some type of fedex quest). just because i do not think 300 silver is a big deal does not detract from the fact i think it is a grind.
you mention:
is it a huge grind that you don't like, or is it an easy game that you think should be changed a bit to add more of a grind.
you bring up a good point. maybe i do think the game is too easy...but increasing to a mindless grind doesn't help. i know i will be in the minority, but i do think that losing all your equipment would be a decent upgrade. if a friend is there, he should be able to loot what he can carry. i do feel that adding an increased punishment for death would bring a greater intensity when adventruing out in difficult areas. as it stands now, death brings some dread(that times out & can be removed a minstrel) & some equipment damage---does that really put any fear in a pc?
maybe i am too old...i remember playing UO back in the day, heart thumping with tension as i was deep in a dungeon, standing over a guild members dead body, guarding his stuff while PKs were down the hall.
btw, i thank everyone for intelligently replying. i bet if i would have posted this someplace else i would have gotten tons of flames.
and raiden...great avatar.
i do think the game is a huge grind(after all, aren't most of the quests some type of fedex quest). just because i do not think 300 silver is a big deal does not detract from the fact i think it is a grind.
you mention:
is it a huge grind that you don't like, or is it an easy game that you think should be changed a bit to add more of a grind.
you bring up a good point. maybe i do think the game is too easy...but increasing to a mindless grind doesn't help. i know i will be in the minority, but i do think that losing all your equipment would be a decent upgrade. if a friend is there, he should be able to loot what he can carry. i do feel that adding an increased punishment for death would bring a greater intensity when adventruing out in difficult areas. as it stands now, death brings some dread(that times out & can be removed a minstrel) & some equipment damage---does that really put any fear in a pc?
maybe i am too old...i remember playing UO back in the day, heart thumping with tension as i was deep in a dungeon, standing over a guild members dead body, guarding his stuff while PKs were down the hall.
btw, i thank everyone for intelligently replying. i bet if i would have posted this someplace else i would have gotten tons of flames.
and raiden...great avatar.
If you really want to suffer for your "mistakes", quit messing around with computer games and take up mumbly peg or Russian roulette.
Now that was funny!!
Now that was funny!!
1 post
I must say i agree with the base argument that Chew Pamela is presenting.
There is no fear of Death in LoTRo. What good is winning if there is no fear of loss?
There is no fear of Death in LoTRo. What good is winning if there is no fear of loss?
Dropping all your gear would be kind of pointless though. It would basically add in a forced grouping 24/7 with at least one person so you wouldn't die or if you died you'd have someone right there to pick the stuff up for you. That wouldn't be fun at all. I think the system is fine, just wait until a higher level where dread becomes a factor in your health.
And in all honesty, if you want a challenge, take all your friends to Ettenmoors at level 40, it will be a challenge.
And in all honesty, if you want a challenge, take all your friends to Ettenmoors at level 40, it will be a challenge.
Before the Book 10 update if you died in North Eastern Angmar, you were sent all the way down to the southern Rally Point by Gabilshathur, so you and your group (if it was a wipe) had to run all the back through IB or BG. You still get Dreaded for 10 minutes, and also have an expensive repair bill to boot. If you have never had to run through Angmar, you will learn that going ANY place is dangerous, even to a level 50. They added more Rally Points in the game since then, but it is still very tough. You are now ported to an area surrounded by undead so leaving that area already dreaded makes for a tough fight out. I think the penalty is enough, at least at the higher levels.
Money is always an issue --- I purposefully go out of my way to farm exceptional hides, Unyielding Drake hides, Ore, and anything else I can get soloing. I am not into PvPing so to me that end of the game is pointless. They should just make a pure PvP server and let people go at it there. Even with the farming I find I am spending almost as much on potions to keep me alive to be able to do this.
Money is always an issue --- I purposefully go out of my way to farm exceptional hides, Unyielding Drake hides, Ore, and anything else I can get soloing. I am not into PvPing so to me that end of the game is pointless. They should just make a pure PvP server and let people go at it there. Even with the farming I find I am spending almost as much on potions to keep me alive to be able to do this.
10 posts
All I can say is that it's a relief not to have to fear death, losing your level, or gear in this game. Defeat can be an embarassment, terribly expensive, and a time-consumer. That's enough. And you have obviously never fallen into Dol Dinen at level 20-something and not been able to get out because of all the elites. Or gotten defeated in the High Moors and not been able to get through all the critters that wait around the ring. In both these cases I finally had to map out and start whatever I was doing all over again from another point. Yes, I love to explore and I have a habit of getting myself into jams. It's fun to be able to try new things and see new places without worry.
And if you want frustration and adrenaline-pumping, you will find it in pvmp, I think. I watch my son playing out there. You and your group should find plenty of excitement.
Linnysse
46 Loremaster
Meneldor
And if you want frustration and adrenaline-pumping, you will find it in pvmp, I think. I watch my son playing out there. You and your group should find plenty of excitement.
Linnysse
46 Loremaster
Meneldor
Why does everyone refer to it as death? It's not being killed... it's being bested in battle. That's why there's no experience loss. The dread comes into play because you're afraid of that happening again.
Dread is the opposite of Hope, except to a higher degree (at least, you get less morale with 1 hope than you lose with 1 dread). Every point of dread lowers your morale, causes you to take more damage, and causes all heals cast upon you to be less effective (because they aren't technically HEALS... they're a morale boost).
If you get up to 7-10 dread (I believe it is), you'll have a chance to cower in front of NPCs. Well, you probably have the chance to cower at lower amounts of dread, but Will factors into it, too, meaning the more Will you have, the less chance you will have to be forced to cower.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, hope can give a maximum bonus of 110% of your total morale (at 10 hope), but at 10 dread, you have somewhere around 40% of your total morale, plus you take 110% of the normal amount of damage, and are healed for like 90% of a normal heal. (Worst case scenario, etc.)
Edited, Sep 23rd 2007 11:41pm by NaturesParadox
Dread is the opposite of Hope, except to a higher degree (at least, you get less morale with 1 hope than you lose with 1 dread). Every point of dread lowers your morale, causes you to take more damage, and causes all heals cast upon you to be less effective (because they aren't technically HEALS... they're a morale boost).
If you get up to 7-10 dread (I believe it is), you'll have a chance to cower in front of NPCs. Well, you probably have the chance to cower at lower amounts of dread, but Will factors into it, too, meaning the more Will you have, the less chance you will have to be forced to cower.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, hope can give a maximum bonus of 110% of your total morale (at 10 hope), but at 10 dread, you have somewhere around 40% of your total morale, plus you take 110% of the normal amount of damage, and are healed for like 90% of a normal heal. (Worst case scenario, etc.)
Edited, Sep 23rd 2007 11:41pm by NaturesParadox
NaturesParadox wrote:
Why does everyone refer to it as death?
Supposedly opponents have "morale" as well. Except after I beat the morale out of an orc, it lies there dead as I rummage through its pockets. Or after a wolf loses its "morale", it allows me to strip its hide off and make craft goods out of it.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
11 posts
thanks again for the replies....
i am still grinding away...all with hopes of entering the ettenmoors and having a blast with some pvp(or pvm, whatever turbine wants to call it)
i heard that warhammer was gonna make an mmo with lots of pvp? has anyone heard about that?
what is the reward for success in the ettenmoors?
is it destiny points? a title? xp?
on the flip side, if i do terrible in the ettenmoors, what are the penalties?
or should i say, what are the penalties outside of my equipment suffering when i lose morale?
i am still grinding away...all with hopes of entering the ettenmoors and having a blast with some pvp(or pvm, whatever turbine wants to call it)
i heard that warhammer was gonna make an mmo with lots of pvp? has anyone heard about that?
what is the reward for success in the ettenmoors?
is it destiny points? a title? xp?
on the flip side, if i do terrible in the ettenmoors, what are the penalties?
or should i say, what are the penalties outside of my equipment suffering when i lose morale?
ChewPamela wrote:
thanks again for the replies....
i am still grinding away...all with hopes of entering the ettenmoors and having a blast with some pvp(or pvm, whatever turbine wants to call it)
i heard that warhammer was gonna make an mmo with lots of pvp? has anyone heard about that?
what is the reward for success in the ettenmoors?
is it destiny points? a title? xp?
on the flip side, if i do terrible in the ettenmoors, what are the penalties?
or should i say, what are the penalties outside of my equipment suffering when i lose morale?
i am still grinding away...all with hopes of entering the ettenmoors and having a blast with some pvp(or pvm, whatever turbine wants to call it)
i heard that warhammer was gonna make an mmo with lots of pvp? has anyone heard about that?
what is the reward for success in the ettenmoors?
is it destiny points? a title? xp?
on the flip side, if i do terrible in the ettenmoors, what are the penalties?
or should i say, what are the penalties outside of my equipment suffering when i lose morale?
As a freep, you get tokens from quests, which can be used to open chests in Glan Vraig. These chests contain equipment. You also get various titles (same as the monsters) for killing certain numbers of one of the enemies, for participating in a keep raid, etc.
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