I'm hosting one, eventually.
The winner will receive a virtual console title, of a value I have not yet specified.
the matches will be 1v1, stock 5, no items allowed(most likely, may only restrict it to a limited number of items)
In order to ensure the rules are enforced, I'm going to personally host every match - then kamikaze myself repeatedly before the competitors begin.
competitors not living in the continental US or Canada are not eligible to participate - my apologies, but the lag created would simply be intolerable.
the tournament will NOT be single elimination, but the final rule set will not be determined until a list of all applicants is compiled.
To apply, make a post in this thread. It would also be nice to re-post your friend codes and wii numbers. (though unnecessary if you make sure to post in the other thread)
1. Allegory
2. Ikkian
3. Vataro
4. Planks
5. Cody
6. Karlina ?
7. Alobont
8. Zackary ?
9. Jinte
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 1:07pm by Kayne
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 1:43pm by Kayne
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 2:11pm by Kayne
Edited, Mar 20th 2008 2:52am by Kayne
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Sounds like fun.
Allegory, Loki, 2878 9302 6469.
Allegory, Loki, 2878 9302 6469.
I'll try to go.
Depends on when it is, but I'd like to join.
◕ ‿‿ ◕
I don't know what Kayne's plans are Vataro, but I'm sure we can set it up in such a way to accommodate everyone's schedule. I don't see any reason why it needs to be done all in one day or at one time. Just need to find any time when all three people (Kayne being the third) can be on.
Sir Allegory wrote:
I don't know what Kayne's plans are Vataro, but I'm sure we can set it up in such a way to accommodate everyone's schedule. I don't see any reason why it needs to be done all in one day or at one time. Just need to find any time when all three people (Kayne being the third) can be on.
That was something I had thought of, just fitting in the match whenever everyone could be on, then eliminating people as seen fit.
I'd like at least 6 participants, which seems pretty reasonable
everyone fights twice. I haven't thought this through much, but the initial rounds would be like:
1 v. 2 3 v. 4 5 v. 6 - second round is automatic, win or lose.
2 v. 4 3 v. 5 1 v. 6 - this is where it gets tricky.
Anyone who might have won both of their first two matches skips round 3, anyone who lost both rounds is eliminated. Round 3 participants are those with one win
and one loss. The only bad part of using this method is the case where we get a nasty odd number of round 3 participants... if this is the case I have several solutions already planned out - but all of them would kind of throw a wrench into things.
Round 4 will consist of anyone who was victorious in round 3, and anyone who was victorious in both initial rounds.
...After thinking this over more carefully I'm setting this up in a really stupid way. Mathematically it seems like the semi-finals may very well have 3 participants, which isn't my intent. Though, I've never been one for math.
I'll simply wait and see how many people are interested, then form the method of doing things after.
8139 2168 7882 4197
2964 8276 9800
in
2964 8276 9800
in
Ooh, me.
Censorship?!
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 1:47pm by Allegory
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 1:47pm by Allegory
Sir Allegory wrote:
Censorship?!
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 1:47pm by Allegory
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 1:47pm by Allegory
errr...you must have edited this because I was planning on quoting your original response...
But yes, something akin to double elimination...
Quote:
the matches will be 1v1, stock 5, no items allowed(most likely, may only restrict it to a limited number of items)
Stock sucks. It doesn't measure skill. Just how good you are at not dying. Time is a much better way to gauge real skill.
Also, why no items? I can understand taking out the game breaking "I win button" items (smash balls, assist trophies, maybe cracker launchers) and I'm all in favor of that, but the rest should stay in. Items normally play such a huge roll that taking them out means you're playing a completely different game.
75 Rabbit/75 Sheep/75 Coeurl/75 Eft/75 Raptor/75 Hippogryph/75 Puk
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat
Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat
Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
Karlina I hope you'll read the tone of this post not as me trying to tell you how to play, but merely explaining certain reasons.
Stock matches are optimal.
For the purposes of one on one fights stock and timed are mostly equivalent, with a few difference I will list later. Not dying and being good at killing work the same way in each. If you are very campy and defensive then you will give your opponent fewer kills in timed and thus reduce his score, and in stock you would die less often and gain a life advantage. If you are very offensive then you will get more kills in timed increasing your score, and in stock you'd reduce the opponents stock more gaining you a life advantage. You can't win any more in stock by "being good at staying alive" than in timed.
There are however several flaws with timed matches, and I'll list them in increasing severity.
1. Gimped kills. You just charged up a smash, mashed your opponent, and now he is flying to his death. Ding time up, sorry your set kill doesn't count. was it a tie before and you would have won? Sorry, 1 second too late. Were you losing before and would have tied it up? Sorry too late.
2. Ties. It is incredibly easy to tie in a timed match. Tie breakers are unbalanced, with the first hit usually winning the fight. Even the best smasher can ***** up in a tie breaker and lose to a noob.
3. Stalling. Something a time match caters too greatly is stalling. What does this mean? We play on battlefield, I am Metaknight, I get one kill in the first 30 seconds of a 2 minute match. For the rest of match I hang off the ledge and fly under the stage from side to side where most characters cannot reach me. I got my one kill and now I prevent you from ever having a chance to equalize the score. It's very easy to do this and several characters can stall matches in a variety of ways on several stages.
Stock matches fix all of these problems. Since the game ends only when you run out of lives it is not possible for you to miss out on getting a kill just because the time ran out. It is possible, but mostly difficult to tie in a stock match, always a rare occasion. And finally stalling is completely useless in a stock match, since the game only ends when you finish off your opponent.
If you want more convincing then I would like to inform you that every major smash tournament scene plays stock matches. True they play stock matches with a timer involved, but timer only exists so two players are unable to draw out the tournament, it really does not affect normal gameplay.
Items add a random element. The most notable events are exploding crates and capsules. If you've played the game with items on long enough then you've certainly had it happen to you before. You're in the middle an attack, maybe a charged smash or even a quick aerial, and a box/crate/capsule spawns in front of you, explodes, and then you die. Items aren't a key part of Smash Bros., they're an additional feature, like stamina mode or giant melee, that's why you have the option to turn them off.
Stock matches are optimal.
For the purposes of one on one fights stock and timed are mostly equivalent, with a few difference I will list later. Not dying and being good at killing work the same way in each. If you are very campy and defensive then you will give your opponent fewer kills in timed and thus reduce his score, and in stock you would die less often and gain a life advantage. If you are very offensive then you will get more kills in timed increasing your score, and in stock you'd reduce the opponents stock more gaining you a life advantage. You can't win any more in stock by "being good at staying alive" than in timed.
There are however several flaws with timed matches, and I'll list them in increasing severity.
1. Gimped kills. You just charged up a smash, mashed your opponent, and now he is flying to his death. Ding time up, sorry your set kill doesn't count. was it a tie before and you would have won? Sorry, 1 second too late. Were you losing before and would have tied it up? Sorry too late.
2. Ties. It is incredibly easy to tie in a timed match. Tie breakers are unbalanced, with the first hit usually winning the fight. Even the best smasher can ***** up in a tie breaker and lose to a noob.
3. Stalling. Something a time match caters too greatly is stalling. What does this mean? We play on battlefield, I am Metaknight, I get one kill in the first 30 seconds of a 2 minute match. For the rest of match I hang off the ledge and fly under the stage from side to side where most characters cannot reach me. I got my one kill and now I prevent you from ever having a chance to equalize the score. It's very easy to do this and several characters can stall matches in a variety of ways on several stages.
Stock matches fix all of these problems. Since the game ends only when you run out of lives it is not possible for you to miss out on getting a kill just because the time ran out. It is possible, but mostly difficult to tie in a stock match, always a rare occasion. And finally stalling is completely useless in a stock match, since the game only ends when you finish off your opponent.
If you want more convincing then I would like to inform you that every major smash tournament scene plays stock matches. True they play stock matches with a timer involved, but timer only exists so two players are unable to draw out the tournament, it really does not affect normal gameplay.
Items add a random element. The most notable events are exploding crates and capsules. If you've played the game with items on long enough then you've certainly had it happen to you before. You're in the middle an attack, maybe a charged smash or even a quick aerial, and a box/crate/capsule spawns in front of you, explodes, and then you die. Items aren't a key part of Smash Bros., they're an additional feature, like stamina mode or giant melee, that's why you have the option to turn them off.
Not dieing is an important skill. Also time matches could be effected by lag (can't remember, but I think timer runs at same speed regardless of lag)
Kayne additional thing to consider is tournament legal stages and stage selection. Do you want to have both players agree on a stage (wouldn't be hard since we're all friendly here) or random from a set?
I'm in I will post my wii code and what not later tonight. Also im a big fan of no items. Even with the uber oens taken out items can still be a big threat due to the fact of smash throwing them.
Sir Allegory wrote:
Kayne additional thing to consider is tournament legal stages and stage selection. Do you want to have both players agree on a stage (wouldn't be hard since we're all friendly here) or random from a set?
Whatever Kayne wants to do is up to him, but I thought I'd offer some stage insight.
There are essentially three types of stages. Neutral stages, normal stages, and broken stages. In professional tournaments these are neutral, counter pick, and banned respectively. Since Brawl is still relatively new the professional groups are still debating about a few borderline stages, but there is mostly a consensus on some rather obvious ones.
An example of a Neutral stage is Battlefield or Smashville. These stages have no stage hazards and are relatively stable. There is no question that these stages are appropriate for competition.
An example of a broken stage would be Flat Zone 2 or 75m. These stages are loaded with hazards and are mostly unsuited to competitive play.
Normal stages are somewhat in the grey zone, since they have a few imbalances, but nothing major. In professional tournament these are counter picks. An example would be Mario Circuit (cars and walk off edges) or Onett (also cars and walk off edges).
In my opinion there are six perfectly fair stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), and Pokemon Stadium (Melee).
There are essentially three types of stages. Neutral stages, normal stages, and broken stages. In professional tournaments these are neutral, counter pick, and banned respectively. Since Brawl is still relatively new the professional groups are still debating about a few borderline stages, but there is mostly a consensus on some rather obvious ones.
An example of a Neutral stage is Battlefield or Smashville. These stages have no stage hazards and are relatively stable. There is no question that these stages are appropriate for competition.
An example of a broken stage would be Flat Zone 2 or 75m. These stages are loaded with hazards and are mostly unsuited to competitive play.
Normal stages are somewhat in the grey zone, since they have a few imbalances, but nothing major. In professional tournament these are counter picks. An example would be Mario Circuit (cars and walk off edges) or Onett (also cars and walk off edges).
In my opinion there are six perfectly fair stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), and Pokemon Stadium (Melee).
I can't find a good wireless connection around here, but if I manage to get my system connected, I'm in too.
Sir Allegory wrote:
Whatever Kayne wants to do is up to him, but I thought I'd offer some stage insight.
There are essentially three types of stages. Neutral stages, normal stages, and broken stages. In professional tournaments these are neutral, counter pick, and banned respectively. Since Brawl is still relatively new the professional groups are still debating about a few borderline stages, but there is mostly a consensus on some rather obvious ones.
An example of a Neutral stage is Battlefield or Smashville. These stages have no stage hazards and are relatively stable. There is no question that these stages are appropriate for competition.
An example of a broken stage would be Flat Zone 2 or 75m. These stages are loaded with hazards and are mostly unsuited to competitive play.
Normal stages are somewhat in the grey zone, since they have a few imbalances, but nothing major. In professional tournament these are counter picks. An example would be Mario Circuit (cars and walk off edges) or Onett (also cars and walk off edges).
In my opinion there are six perfectly fair stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), and Pokemon Stadium (Melee).
There are essentially three types of stages. Neutral stages, normal stages, and broken stages. In professional tournaments these are neutral, counter pick, and banned respectively. Since Brawl is still relatively new the professional groups are still debating about a few borderline stages, but there is mostly a consensus on some rather obvious ones.
An example of a Neutral stage is Battlefield or Smashville. These stages have no stage hazards and are relatively stable. There is no question that these stages are appropriate for competition.
An example of a broken stage would be Flat Zone 2 or 75m. These stages are loaded with hazards and are mostly unsuited to competitive play.
Normal stages are somewhat in the grey zone, since they have a few imbalances, but nothing major. In professional tournament these are counter picks. An example would be Mario Circuit (cars and walk off edges) or Onett (also cars and walk off edges).
In my opinion there are six perfectly fair stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), and Pokemon Stadium (Melee).
I'll leave it up to the discretion of the players involved. If they want to play the ridiculous donkey kong stage where it self-scrolls and speeds up randomly - they can go right ahead and do it. This holds true only if both parties agree to it, naturally.
This isn't something I plan on doing in the nearest future(I'll most likely attempt to establish a chart and official rules on friday after an ample amount of people have read the post and given their 2 cents)
I plan on allowing *some* items - with the rate of items appearing being set to extremely low.
All you need to know is this: I want to host a tournament in the not too far off future. The winner will receive a virtual console title, most likely not exceeding 800 points.
Opinions, suggestions, criticisms, and applications are all welcome in this thread. On Friday I'll take a look at everything and work up a rough outline, see how everyone feels - and if all is found acceptable the rough outline will become the formal outline.
so, just for clarification, care to define a counter pick to someone who's only competed in one brawl tourney?(at the midnight release, but i lost in the 2nd round)
and assuming you'd still be willing to let someone join, how do i find my wii number? i can't remember where its at.
and assuming you'd still be willing to let someone join, how do i find my wii number? i can't remember where its at.
Theytak, Siren Server, FFXI [Retired]
Amerida Baker, Balmung Server, FFXIV
LOLGAXE IS MY ETERNAL RIVAL!
Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
Amerida Baker, Balmung Server, FFXIV
LOLGAXE IS MY ETERNAL RIVAL!
Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O
Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
Professor Jinte wrote:
so, just for clarification, care to define a counter pick to someone who's only competed in one brawl tourney?(at the midnight release, but i lost in the 2nd round)
and assuming you'd still be willing to let someone join, how do i find my wii number? i can't remember where its at.
and assuming you'd still be willing to let someone join, how do i find my wii number? i can't remember where its at.
you can find it in the wii message board on the bottom right hand side of the wii menu.
thanks:
brawl: 3222-5239-4316
wii: 8076 4692 5205 4874
brawl: 3222-5239-4316
wii: 8076 4692 5205 4874
Theytak, Siren Server, FFXI [Retired]
Amerida Baker, Balmung Server, FFXIV
LOLGAXE IS MY ETERNAL RIVAL!
Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
Amerida Baker, Balmung Server, FFXIV
LOLGAXE IS MY ETERNAL RIVAL!
Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O
Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
To find your wii number simply go to the wii message board, click to create a new message, and then hit address book.
The way professional tournaments in Melee worked was you'd have an 8 minute four stock match that began on a "neutral" stage. This match was one of an odd numbered total in a single set, so players would play best of three or best of five to determine the winner for that game. Since you play multiple matches in the same set players have a chance to play with different characters and on different stages. After the first match on a random neutral stage the loser is allowed to choose where the next match will be played. He can pick any one of the neutral stages, but he may also select from a wider list of counter pick stages. Then the winner chooses his character, and then the loser choose his character.
Counter pick stages give the loser the chance to try a different match up setting that might be more favorable to his play style.
The way professional tournaments in Melee worked was you'd have an 8 minute four stock match that began on a "neutral" stage. This match was one of an odd numbered total in a single set, so players would play best of three or best of five to determine the winner for that game. Since you play multiple matches in the same set players have a chance to play with different characters and on different stages. After the first match on a random neutral stage the loser is allowed to choose where the next match will be played. He can pick any one of the neutral stages, but he may also select from a wider list of counter pick stages. Then the winner chooses his character, and then the loser choose his character.
Counter pick stages give the loser the chance to try a different match up setting that might be more favorable to his play style.
Wii #: 6121 8806 3845 5590
Friend Code: 0130 1511 7843
Friend Code: 0130 1511 7843
I'd like to compete.
Wii #: 4283 4929 0176 4703
Friend #: 1461 5904 3977
I play all freaking day long and have added a good bit of people on the list, yet no one has added me yet (aside from allegory).
Add me peeps!
Wii #: 4283 4929 0176 4703
Friend #: 1461 5904 3977
I play all freaking day long and have added a good bit of people on the list, yet no one has added me yet (aside from allegory).
Add me peeps!
Lurking since '04
I (O_O) YOU
I (O_O) YOU
Sanothetraveled wrote:
I'd like to compete.
Wii #: 4283 4929 0176 4703
Friend #: 1461 5904 3977
I play all freaking day long and have added a good bit of people on the list, yet no one has added me yet (aside from allegory).
Add me peeps!
Wii #: 4283 4929 0176 4703
Friend #: 1461 5904 3977
I play all freaking day long and have added a good bit of people on the list, yet no one has added me yet (aside from allegory).
Add me peeps!
If you're on tomorrow I'll play you some, though currently amassing a small fortune in FFXI is my new goal.
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