Elitist Brawl Jack AssesFollow

I have no issue with people using these glitches or any cheap tactics in the first place, its more the way the person presents himself. He has a high amount of skill, but suffers from a 'holier than thou' attitude towards anyone who isn't part of this elite.

They do have extensive skill and knowledge, but have far too high an opinion of themselves.

Edited, Mar 24th 2008 10:33am by KeikoMYA

Could you possibly have gotten any more butthurt about it?

People in tournaments exploit the game's weaknesses. Wavedashing et al, "cheap" moves and tactics are all par for the course. They have always been par for the course in any serious gameplay for any game.

Try reading this, you may find it instructive.

honestly, i'm happy none of my best characters make the list, just means i can play well w/o being called cheap.

however in reality, there are no real best characters. they did a good job of balancing everyone in the game this time around

edit: loldoublenegativeaction

Edited, Mar 24th 2008 11:28am by Jinte

... up b with Ike...

I've won plenty of games just spamming that. It's kinda hilarious, really.

I don't generally play as him though. I prefer to use characters that you don't often see people play, as Allegory and Jinte saw the other night. It seems like everyone that plays online plays Ike, Meta Knight or Fox.



(edit:) I just read the link that the OP provided, and I think it's kinda funny where they placed Olimar on the list. He's really an unpredictable character if you're doin' it rite. Stacking Purple and Yellow Pikmin can make him nearly unstoppable.

I also love the lack of Peach on that list. She's got quite a few moves, that while not very deadly when used offensively, defensively, she can be a powerhouse. In Melee, I used to sit in one spot and counter everything thrown at me with her. I've not had much experience with her in Brawl, but from the match that I played against Allegory, the only thing that I had problems with was figuring out the timing on her moves with the lag factored in.


Edited, Mar 24th 2008 1:10pm by Catt

While I agree with the article that RPZip posted (I was about to dig it out and post it, but you beat me to it ), I still sincerely dislike the guy that was linked in the OP. He seems extremely hypocritical, he goes from bashing players that use Wolf because he's "cheap" to practically encouraging people to use the "secret techniques" he lists. In fact, he states later on that the only thing making this list is the "cheapness" (a word that shouldn't even be used in a fighting game, IMO) factor between different character's moves.

Yes, I read the link, but I still don't see how using things that were not intended within the game design is not cheating. I'm sorry, I simply don't agree with it and just because the supposed "pro's" or "vets" of a video game are OK with it, doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

So by your logic, wouldn't it be OK for me to use one of the banned moves listed in the first link RPZip provided? I mean, it's in the game, right?

There's a difference between "broken" moves (i.e. cheap) and moves that break the game (literally).

It's almost entirely obvious the original linked thread is a troll post. The OP claims to be part of the Smash Back Rooom, but I've never seen someone with his name have those posting privileges on SWF, nor can I find anyone with his name having ever posted on SWF through a google search. I can find no mention of Wario's, Fox's, or Falco's new techniques on SWF. You think they'd at least be on the first page. Fox's new technique barely makes any practical sense, as tripping is a 1/100 chance, and even if you dash danced to trigger it you have about a 50% chance of tripping in the correct direction. And Ganondorf being that high is mostly certainly a joke. He also has only 21 posts.

The linked thread is most probably an idiot looking for attention.

On to the main discussion. There are several points that need addressing here.

First is the usage of the word elitist. I remember hearing the word thrown around a lot back when I played FFXI. The most egregious aspect of this word is that it rarely has any real world basis. Most of the top level players don't say "I'm right because I'm right." Often times they'll argue a point about the game, usually involving advanced game play elements, they'll be categorically correct, and the casual player won't be willing to accept that he was wrong about something being a competitive maneuver and instead of accepting his mistake will reject his opponent as an elitist prick. Instead of seeing himself as having raised the initial argument and the other party having used knowledge and experience to disprove his claim, he will instead see it as an advanced player shoving his skill into his face.

Next point. Advanced maneuvers are not cheating. Cheating is breaking the rules, tournaments set the rules, and in tournaments none of those advanced maneuvers are cheating. It doesn't matter what was intended or what wasn't. Certain stages, like flat zone, are banned in tournaments. These are an intended part of the game, but players have set the rules so that playing on these stages is cheating because of the types of abuses available. Players set the rules, not the game designers.

Furthermore none of this is arbitrary. There are very good reasons unintended maneuvers are allowed and intended stages and items are not. Players banned what breaks the game. Game breaking doesn't just mean turning the console off, it means making the game unplayable or pointless. The freeze glitch is banned in tournaments because it halts game play into a draw. Wobbling is banned in most tournaments because there is nothing the opponent can do to counter it aside from never being grabbed. The reason wavedashing is not banned is because it does not break the game. One player using it does not make the game unplayable for the other, and in fact improves overall competitive game play. It was seen as a beneficial addition to the game and readily adopted.

What a ridiculous statement. Do you honestly players that have spent all this time training with the game couldn't beat you without these techniques?

It is generally a sad thing when casual players complain about advanced techniques. Most will never enter a tournament, and will never have any of these advanced techniques used against them. So why do they care? Because it categorically supports the idea that someone out there is better than them at the game. These are techniques the casual player knows he cannot use, an undeniable advantage someone out there has over him. He could never lie to himself and say "Meh I could beat that guy," once he knows the other person is able to do everything he can and more.

Edited, Mar 24th 2008 3:06pm by Allegory

Tiers exist.

Advanced techniques are for people who want to play a more in-depth game, rather than an Aether spam shitfest.

BAAAAWWW about it.

As was GGXX's Robo Ky, iirc.
Not in GGXX#Reload, however, when they revamped his moveset to make him more unique.

Have my babies plz?

You have my heartfelt apologies, and I'd get online right now but I'm away from my wii for the next few days. As a matter of recent times though, I'm currently being raped by the Critique of Pure Reason. Attempting to deduce what the pure concepts of the understanding are such that the reason is capable of apriori synthetic apperception makes me want to punch a baby, so to speak. You may have me after Kant finishes with my ***, if there is anything left.

:(