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Scholar
33 posts
So it has been forever since ive been on alla but i finaly was able to give up ffxi. I bought my self a copy of lotro today and was looking for some general advice i couldnt find in first few pages of forums. Mainly im looking for advice in class selection. Is there any class which is considered superior to rest? Looking for things like are some more usefull and sought after then others? Is one superior at soloing over the rest. Just in most mmo's you will find theres is trends where half the games player base are warriors or maybe your a dragoon and people think your useless or like in ffxi where rdm could solo things 20 times harder then most. Im starting to ramble now i know but if you could offer some info along the lines of my rambling here it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and yes i plan to join there server with unoffical alla kinship and once im comfortable with gameplay maybe even join the kin. thanks again
I'm sure there are a lot of different opinions on this, but as far as I've seen there really isn't an "uber" class. All the classes can solo effectively, so what it really comes down to is what you enjoy playing.
Here's some of the things I've noticed.
Minstrel:
In groups: Expected to be a dedicated healer and not much else.
Solo: Does extremely well on 1 on 1 similar level mob fights in the standard stance. 3 or more of anything can be serious trouble.
What drives some people nuts: Solo encounters can be long and slow when compared to other classes.
Note: There is a stance that comes into play at later levels that allows the minstrel to have greatly increased damage output at the expense of healing abilities being reduced to half.
Guardian:
In groups: Tank
Solo: Is very gear dependent, but if appropriately geared at all times (standard best available for level, player crafted, non-single use, is generally fine) can stand toe to toe with just about anything under a regular red con extremely well.
What drives some people nuts: Solo fights are nearly minstrel long and are almost attrition wars. Damage output isn't much greater than the minstrel in the standard stance.
Note: There's a stance for this class at later levels that increases damage output, but forces you to use a 2 handed weapon thereby knocking about 1/3 off armour value.
There are probably a lot of details I'm missing on the ones below this as I haven't played most of them past 15 or not at all.
Lore-master:
In groups: Crowd control and power management This class is in VERY high demand for groups, especially instances.
Solo: Great solo capabilities, especially as the pets get better. Can be very "squishy" at low levels. Has loads of tricks (eventually) to handle multiple mob encounters.
What drives some people nuts: This class is often considered "too complex", which is also a common complaint of the crowd control type classes in most games.
Hunter:
In groups: Fast, big, but with an emphasis on self-restraint (big damage = bigger aggro generation), damage output. Traps come in very handy when a CC class isn't available. Group transportation certainly gets things moving faster.
Solo: Can generally take down an even con regular mob faster than any other class in the game, often before it reaches the hunter, especially when using traps. Has a movement speed buff, and farms mobs faster than any other class could even contemplate, so it's very useful for an avid crafter to have one in their toon line up eventually.
What drives some people nuts: This class is by far the most frequently played in the game, by a large margin, and is also the easiest class to find an example of it being poorly played in groups. Players seem to complain about hunters a lot.
Note: There is a stance that helps with aggro management at higher levels.
Captain:
In groups: The buffer! Has a great on-defeat of a mob group heal that is a huge asset as well. Has been known to tank in a pinch.
Solo: I never played one far enough to know, but then I've never heard of one complaining that they can't do it effectively.
What drives some people nuts: I've heard the complex complaint a lot for this class, although I'm not sure how valid it is.
Note: This is a very high demand class for groups and there just never seem to be enough of them to go around.
Champion:
In groups: Damage output, reserve/secondary tank. Can tank if necessary.
Solo: Has lots of multiple mob strikes that make similar level multiple mob encounters less of a hassle.
What drives people nuts: It's the jack-of-all trades fighter and is sometimes accused of being too straight-forward. (It's also probably why Turbine claims it to be the perfect first character class, especially if one is not a seasoned MMO player.)
Note: In my opinion, this class paired with just about any other makes a very solid duo.
Burglar:
In groups: CC, burst damage, conjunction triggering, scouting around.
Solo: This class can get to a lot of places that almost any other class would have to clear a lot of mobs to get to, which is more handy than it may seem on the surface. The class is a little "squishy" but has a lot of tricks at its disposal.
Note: This is also a high demand class that there seems to be a general shortage of in the game.
Somebody else could comment better on this one especially. I genuinely did find this class to be pretty complex and I just wasn't getting the hang of it.
I'd say pick a few. Play those to 15 or 20, which doesn't take all that long once you do it once. Then go with the one you like best.
Fair warning though, some classes really do take flight at higher levels. For example, 36 is a huge one for the Lore-master.
Here's some of the things I've noticed.
Minstrel:
In groups: Expected to be a dedicated healer and not much else.
Solo: Does extremely well on 1 on 1 similar level mob fights in the standard stance. 3 or more of anything can be serious trouble.
What drives some people nuts: Solo encounters can be long and slow when compared to other classes.
Note: There is a stance that comes into play at later levels that allows the minstrel to have greatly increased damage output at the expense of healing abilities being reduced to half.
Guardian:
In groups: Tank
Solo: Is very gear dependent, but if appropriately geared at all times (standard best available for level, player crafted, non-single use, is generally fine) can stand toe to toe with just about anything under a regular red con extremely well.
What drives some people nuts: Solo fights are nearly minstrel long and are almost attrition wars. Damage output isn't much greater than the minstrel in the standard stance.
Note: There's a stance for this class at later levels that increases damage output, but forces you to use a 2 handed weapon thereby knocking about 1/3 off armour value.
There are probably a lot of details I'm missing on the ones below this as I haven't played most of them past 15 or not at all.
Lore-master:
In groups: Crowd control and power management This class is in VERY high demand for groups, especially instances.
Solo: Great solo capabilities, especially as the pets get better. Can be very "squishy" at low levels. Has loads of tricks (eventually) to handle multiple mob encounters.
What drives some people nuts: This class is often considered "too complex", which is also a common complaint of the crowd control type classes in most games.
Hunter:
In groups: Fast, big, but with an emphasis on self-restraint (big damage = bigger aggro generation), damage output. Traps come in very handy when a CC class isn't available. Group transportation certainly gets things moving faster.
Solo: Can generally take down an even con regular mob faster than any other class in the game, often before it reaches the hunter, especially when using traps. Has a movement speed buff, and farms mobs faster than any other class could even contemplate, so it's very useful for an avid crafter to have one in their toon line up eventually.
What drives some people nuts: This class is by far the most frequently played in the game, by a large margin, and is also the easiest class to find an example of it being poorly played in groups. Players seem to complain about hunters a lot.
Note: There is a stance that helps with aggro management at higher levels.
Captain:
In groups: The buffer! Has a great on-defeat of a mob group heal that is a huge asset as well. Has been known to tank in a pinch.
Solo: I never played one far enough to know, but then I've never heard of one complaining that they can't do it effectively.
What drives some people nuts: I've heard the complex complaint a lot for this class, although I'm not sure how valid it is.
Note: This is a very high demand class for groups and there just never seem to be enough of them to go around.
Champion:
In groups: Damage output, reserve/secondary tank. Can tank if necessary.
Solo: Has lots of multiple mob strikes that make similar level multiple mob encounters less of a hassle.
What drives people nuts: It's the jack-of-all trades fighter and is sometimes accused of being too straight-forward. (It's also probably why Turbine claims it to be the perfect first character class, especially if one is not a seasoned MMO player.)
Note: In my opinion, this class paired with just about any other makes a very solid duo.
Burglar:
In groups: CC, burst damage, conjunction triggering, scouting around.
Solo: This class can get to a lot of places that almost any other class would have to clear a lot of mobs to get to, which is more handy than it may seem on the surface. The class is a little "squishy" but has a lot of tricks at its disposal.
Note: This is also a high demand class that there seems to be a general shortage of in the game.
Somebody else could comment better on this one especially. I genuinely did find this class to be pretty complex and I just wasn't getting the hang of it.
I'd say pick a few. Play those to 15 or 20, which doesn't take all that long once you do it once. Then go with the one you like best.
Fair warning though, some classes really do take flight at higher levels. For example, 36 is a huge one for the Lore-master.
The thing I love is the playstyle difference between the classes. If you are looking for a class where you'll always have a party slot, I'd go minstrel, burg, or captain. I haven't had a problem finding a group because of my class with any of the classes, though.
Kitca summed up the classes brilliantly, so here's my 2 cents on playstyle:
Guardian - Has a LOT of cascading abilities. Pretty fun to play in that respect. You block or parry an attack, which enables a skill. Use that skill, and it enables the next in the line. Etc etc. 4/10 on the button masher scale.
Champion - 9/10 on the button masher scale.
Hunter - Haven't really played one high enough to know, but I'd say slightly less button mashy than Champs. 7/10
Lore master - complex in that they have tons of skills, most with punishing cooldowns. The challenge here is coming up with a good skill rotation, while still keeping up on what you need to be doing. Very slow until about level 25. 2/10 on the button masher scale.
Captain - When a mob dies, it triggers some of your skills. This can be pretty fun to try and manage. They take the slow, heal over time approach to healing, but there are lots of options. Very fun class, imho, plus they yell the most. You always know when a captain is in the group. 3.5/10 on button mashing.
Burglar - Very very very slow at first, but it picks up later. Makes a huge difference in a duo, but also solos quite well. Being able to open a conjunction (think skill chain) at will makes them pretty OP, although you can't do it solo. 4/10 on the button masher scale.
Minstrel - Haven't played one to high levels, but my duo partner is one. He loves it, especially with War Speech (the damage boost skill Kitca mentioned) is enabled. They also have the cascading abilities like the guardian, which makes healing not as boring as it would otherwise be. 4/10.
Kitca summed up the classes brilliantly, so here's my 2 cents on playstyle:
Guardian - Has a LOT of cascading abilities. Pretty fun to play in that respect. You block or parry an attack, which enables a skill. Use that skill, and it enables the next in the line. Etc etc. 4/10 on the button masher scale.
Champion - 9/10 on the button masher scale.
Hunter - Haven't really played one high enough to know, but I'd say slightly less button mashy than Champs. 7/10
Lore master - complex in that they have tons of skills, most with punishing cooldowns. The challenge here is coming up with a good skill rotation, while still keeping up on what you need to be doing. Very slow until about level 25. 2/10 on the button masher scale.
Captain - When a mob dies, it triggers some of your skills. This can be pretty fun to try and manage. They take the slow, heal over time approach to healing, but there are lots of options. Very fun class, imho, plus they yell the most. You always know when a captain is in the group. 3.5/10 on button mashing.
Burglar - Very very very slow at first, but it picks up later. Makes a huge difference in a duo, but also solos quite well. Being able to open a conjunction (think skill chain) at will makes them pretty OP, although you can't do it solo. 4/10 on the button masher scale.
Minstrel - Haven't played one to high levels, but my duo partner is one. He loves it, especially with War Speech (the damage boost skill Kitca mentioned) is enabled. They also have the cascading abilities like the guardian, which makes healing not as boring as it would otherwise be. 4/10.
I can solo pretty well on my Captain although the moderate DPS I can produce is pretty noticable. Fights aren't minstrel-long but they are on the longer side. Survivability is good with a pet you can always leave to the wolves (literally) if things go sour, a short duration movement speed buff, self-invulnerability buff, and other tricks.
Captains really need a group to be playing to their potential. You can heal others on demand but your self-healing is largely limited to a group heal you can only trigger when a mob dies or you score a critical hit with select abilities. Some of your abilities aren't helpful to you -- you can resurrect but that doesn't help if you die. You can use a buff to absorb all of the damage your group is taking (hint: stacks with the invulnerability buff) but obviously it's useless without a group to heroically save. You can tank in a pinch but you lack a Guardian's defensive skills and your DPS is no match for a Champion's dual-weilding offensive abilities. Your group role is definately support but you do it very well.
There is a fair amount of complexity just because there's a lot of abilities and many don't stack so you need to decide "Do I want my herald pet out or an AE buff banner? Which herald/banner? Should I use the 'mark' which gives me a small heal for every blow I land or the one which increases my damage? Do I use my group heal cry after the first mob in this group or risk waiting until the second one dies?" Still, it's a game, not rocket science.
Captains really need a group to be playing to their potential. You can heal others on demand but your self-healing is largely limited to a group heal you can only trigger when a mob dies or you score a critical hit with select abilities. Some of your abilities aren't helpful to you -- you can resurrect but that doesn't help if you die. You can use a buff to absorb all of the damage your group is taking (hint: stacks with the invulnerability buff) but obviously it's useless without a group to heroically save. You can tank in a pinch but you lack a Guardian's defensive skills and your DPS is no match for a Champion's dual-weilding offensive abilities. Your group role is definately support but you do it very well.
There is a fair amount of complexity just because there's a lot of abilities and many don't stack so you need to decide "Do I want my herald pet out or an AE buff banner? Which herald/banner? Should I use the 'mark' which gives me a small heal for every blow I land or the one which increases my damage? Do I use my group heal cry after the first mob in this group or risk waiting until the second one dies?" Still, it's a game, not rocket science.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I play a hunter and find that there is a lot of strategy involved (in playing one well). Here is my take on the class;
We do best when we are able to take our time and "set things up".
This includes choosing the killing ground, generating focus, (to use our more powerful skills), laying traps and then pulling the mob in.
Some of the nice things about the class include;
ports for self and group to various locations within the world (9 in all)
a group speed buff
name based mob tracking
DF - group evac to safety
(critter) fear
camp fire (group buff for increased regen speed)
One of my favorite things about the class is that I have lots of options in how I want to take down a mob. Trap or no trap? Which style of trap? Open with big damage or pull to trap and pincushion there? Or pull to me and melee till death do us part!
Yes I can do sick amounts of ranged damage to mobs and yes, I can often drop an even con mob while it is still incoming so that it never even lays a glove on me!
This is a good thing because we are also kind of squishy (leather armor only) and are totally lacking in any kind of self heals.
The one serious weak spot in the class is that we don't have a lot of AoE skills (in fact only two that I can think of) however AoE is a champion's job! Hunters are single target specialists.
We do best when we are able to take our time and "set things up".
This includes choosing the killing ground, generating focus, (to use our more powerful skills), laying traps and then pulling the mob in.
Some of the nice things about the class include;
ports for self and group to various locations within the world (9 in all)
a group speed buff
name based mob tracking
DF - group evac to safety
(critter) fear
camp fire (group buff for increased regen speed)
One of my favorite things about the class is that I have lots of options in how I want to take down a mob. Trap or no trap? Which style of trap? Open with big damage or pull to trap and pincushion there? Or pull to me and melee till death do us part!
Yes I can do sick amounts of ranged damage to mobs and yes, I can often drop an even con mob while it is still incoming so that it never even lays a glove on me!
This is a good thing because we are also kind of squishy (leather armor only) and are totally lacking in any kind of self heals.
The one serious weak spot in the class is that we don't have a lot of AoE skills (in fact only two that I can think of) however AoE is a champion's job! Hunters are single target specialists.
I have both a 50 hunter and a 50 Lore Master. They couldn't be more different if they were in different games.
AS OBD pointed out a hunter's strength lies in picking the target and how you want to kill it, but it's greatest weakness is they rely entire on killing quickly. Get in trouble and things go from bad to dead in short order. You can go anywhere on a whim at high levels because you are basically (to use a FFXI example) a WHM on crack. By 50 you have an entire bar of JUST transportation options for yourself and your party. One of which can be set to nearly anywhere in the world. And that's in addition to your home point (map), and any home of kin home tavel options you have. There is even one skill that is designed entirely for those times when you've screwed up royally and need to get away, NOW. Think personal "escape" to use a FFXI term. Though unlike escape it only affects YOU, not your group.
With Lore Master, played right, I can take on more things, of higher level, and in small groups, than I can with my hunter. Because LM is all about crowd control and debuffing, you can use both together along with a pet for Damage and a couple of nice damage abilities. You have one self heal that takes 10 minutes to cooldown but if you're a good tactician you an use your pet to heal you (certain moves yeild a status on the mod that if you then use a corresponding skill will either heal your or do a devastatin critical hit on the target). LM's are even more squishy than Hunters. While hunters get Medium Armor, LM's only get light (cloth). Running away is often the best tactic for when things get out of hand.
AS OBD pointed out a hunter's strength lies in picking the target and how you want to kill it, but it's greatest weakness is they rely entire on killing quickly. Get in trouble and things go from bad to dead in short order. You can go anywhere on a whim at high levels because you are basically (to use a FFXI example) a WHM on crack. By 50 you have an entire bar of JUST transportation options for yourself and your party. One of which can be set to nearly anywhere in the world. And that's in addition to your home point (map), and any home of kin home tavel options you have. There is even one skill that is designed entirely for those times when you've screwed up royally and need to get away, NOW. Think personal "escape" to use a FFXI term. Though unlike escape it only affects YOU, not your group.
With Lore Master, played right, I can take on more things, of higher level, and in small groups, than I can with my hunter. Because LM is all about crowd control and debuffing, you can use both together along with a pet for Damage and a couple of nice damage abilities. You have one self heal that takes 10 minutes to cooldown but if you're a good tactician you an use your pet to heal you (certain moves yeild a status on the mod that if you then use a corresponding skill will either heal your or do a devastatin critical hit on the target). LM's are even more squishy than Hunters. While hunters get Medium Armor, LM's only get light (cloth). Running away is often the best tactic for when things get out of hand.
Scholar
33 posts
Thank you all for your insights. This was exactly the type of information I was looking for. All i could seem to find was vague general roles and not much specifics and totally appreciate the ffxi refrences, makes it very easy to understand. Ofcourse ill have to try things out myself to really decide what i like but this gave me a very good idea of what to expect and how to play a character. Rate up for all and please anyone else feel free to add anymore insight.
None of the classes are really like anything in FFXI, though if I had to relate them in some way I probably could.
Guardian = Paladin (minus cures) + Warrior
Champion = Warrior + Ninja + Monk
Hunter = Ranger + White Mage (teleports)
Captain = Dragoon + Corsair + Dancer
Loremaster = Summoner + RDM/BLM (think Sleepga etc)
Burglar = Thief + Ninja + Red Mage (Debuffs)
Minstrel = White Mage + Bard
Guardian = Paladin (minus cures) + Warrior
Champion = Warrior + Ninja + Monk
Hunter = Ranger + White Mage (teleports)
Captain = Dragoon + Corsair + Dancer
Loremaster = Summoner + RDM/BLM (think Sleepga etc)
Burglar = Thief + Ninja + Red Mage (Debuffs)
Minstrel = White Mage + Bard
OldBlueDragon wrote:
DF - group evac to safety
(critter) fear
DF (Desperate Flight) is not a GROUP evac, it's self-only.
You also get a fear for 'evil aligned mobs' as a legendary trait (level 41+) (not just critters)
Jophiel wrote:
Fights aren't minstrel-long but they are on the longer side.
I've been pretty impressed with a Minstrels dps. I raised up a Disciple in Vanguard, seemingly a very similar class, however killing a mob was indeed painfully slow.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
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