Hey I was curious about some specing ideas with frost.
right now im 20/0/41 and im wondering if it would be better to go deep into the arcane tree with frost?
The arcane tree seems more built to work with fire.
Current gear etc.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bonechewer&n=zadax
idea for a build....http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Rf0Vf0fzxIziZZVVMco0Lo
some feedback would be nice
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Personally, it all depends on whether or not you'll have another frostie to leech winter's chill from. If you don't I think the slight increase in damage may not be worth giving up the survivability if you don't have the winter's chill mage.
7 posts
alright thanks, thats what i was wondering. Sometimes i got beat by a arcane frost mage by like 1% ish and was wondering if winters chill would make that much of a difference
ZaruTaru wrote:
alright thanks, thats what i was wondering. Sometimes i got beat by a arcane frost mage by like 1% ish and was wondering if winters chill would make that much of a difference
Just remember that he's riding your winter's chill too. I'm willing to bet he does less damage than you when you're in separate groups.
The tradeoff in damage is about 100 more damage per Frostbolt and 500+ per critical with Arcane for about 3% more crits with Frost (at least according to my charts). I consider PoM/Arcane Power and Water Elemental to be a wash in PvE since the WE is so fragile. If both are usable for the duration, WE should do about 2000-3000 more damage than PoM/AP, but 1 good Area of Effect almost always kills the WE.
Arcane/Frost is much much nicer on your mana pool if that is any concern. Also Arcane Blast (in a rotation of course) instead of Frostbolt as your main nuke should increase the gap between Arcane and Frost. I use Frostbolt anyway because of my gear, but yeah Frostbolt spamming in an Arcane build isnt the best choice unless you can increase your crit rate dramatically. (Moonkin, Totems, Winters Chill) With large crit rates Arcane/Frost is much better than full frost.
Anyway i dont really find one to be significantly better than the other. I cant measure them against each other in the same run, but I think even spamming just Frostbolt, Arcane/Frost will end up on top on damage and give you a longer lasting manapool at the expense of mainly Ice Barrier.
Oh, and if you do go Arcane/Frost as a raiding build, you don't need shatter ;-) Elemental precision and Frost Channeling will give better results. Unless of course you want increased PvP viability with the spec as well.
Arcane/Frost is much much nicer on your mana pool if that is any concern. Also Arcane Blast (in a rotation of course) instead of Frostbolt as your main nuke should increase the gap between Arcane and Frost. I use Frostbolt anyway because of my gear, but yeah Frostbolt spamming in an Arcane build isnt the best choice unless you can increase your crit rate dramatically. (Moonkin, Totems, Winters Chill) With large crit rates Arcane/Frost is much better than full frost.
Anyway i dont really find one to be significantly better than the other. I cant measure them against each other in the same run, but I think even spamming just Frostbolt, Arcane/Frost will end up on top on damage and give you a longer lasting manapool at the expense of mainly Ice Barrier.
Oh, and if you do go Arcane/Frost as a raiding build, you don't need shatter ;-) Elemental precision and Frost Channeling will give better results. Unless of course you want increased PvP viability with the spec as well.
7 posts
Alright thanks, cause im finding empower frostbolt is really holding its own on a arcane/frost.
plus i find pom frostbolt is almost junk compared to some later talents and spell dmg. The only big thing is how often I crit/ vs having less crits that crit fopr alot more.
I think im going to stick wit my current build tho, unless I get some nice fire gear.
plus i find pom frostbolt is almost junk compared to some later talents and spell dmg. The only big thing is how often I crit/ vs having less crits that crit fopr alot more.
I think im going to stick wit my current build tho, unless I get some nice fire gear.
Furburglar wrote:
The tradeoff in damage is about 100 more damage per Frostbolt and 500+ per critical with Arcane for about 3% more crits with Frost (at least according to my charts).
Assuming 700 +dmg(modest number); 20% base crit chance; and 400 int(about what I'm rocking right now):
Based on my spreadsheet, you have a base rate to crit of 25% with the full frost(18/0/43) and 26.86% from arcane frost(40/0/21).
Full frost damage numbers:
Total FB Dmg: 1317.20
FB Crit Dmg: 2634.40
Arcane frost damage numbers:
Total FB Dmg: 1374.37
FB Crit Dmg: 3092.34
Here's where the numbers get interesting
Full frost DPS on a mob when winter's chill is stacked(boss fights, where DPS matters most): 746.85
Arcane/frost DPS on a mob with no winter's chill up(Again matters most on boss fights): 756.39
Now, and here's the question, is the survivability of full frost worth giving up for less than 10 dps? Not to mention the fact that the gap shrinks more as you gain more +dmg(assuming crit rate and int are fairly static, they become equal DPS at a little more than 800 +dmg). And then we add in that you're buffing the overall damage of all arcane/frosties in your raid(not a biggie in Kara, but might be in Gruul's/Magtheridon's Lairs and further).
However, if all you're worried about is the damage meters, then you'll find that the good overall damage the 40/0/21 gives on trash mobs as well as bosses to be more to your liking.
Build for alternating Frostbolt and Arcane Missiles in a raid
I can't do the calculations to evaluate this objectively now, but it seems the best I could come up with for a build based on the idea of alternating those two spells in a long encounter. It lacks all the frost talents for general PvE utility (extra slowing, freezing) and survivability, and it would help to have another mage applying Winter's Chill. The big missing pieces for direct damage output on the frost side are, of course, Empowered Frostbolt and Water Elemental. But it has everything else for improving both damage per second and damage per mana. (Possibly move one point from Elemental Precision to Arcane Mind.)
I'll work it out in detail later. If you care to evaluate it in the meantime, Poldaran, I'd be interested to see what you come up with.
I can't do the calculations to evaluate this objectively now, but it seems the best I could come up with for a build based on the idea of alternating those two spells in a long encounter. It lacks all the frost talents for general PvE utility (extra slowing, freezing) and survivability, and it would help to have another mage applying Winter's Chill. The big missing pieces for direct damage output on the frost side are, of course, Empowered Frostbolt and Water Elemental. But it has everything else for improving both damage per second and damage per mana. (Possibly move one point from Elemental Precision to Arcane Mind.)
I'll work it out in detail later. If you care to evaluate it in the meantime, Poldaran, I'd be interested to see what you come up with.
Yeah no doubt Winter's Chill is the single best raid ability a Frosty has and quite honestly is the reason I am constantly switching between the two builds.
Just out of curiosity, did you take Arcane Mind into account with your spreadsheet? The gap in damage per bolt is slightly more in my experience. Nothing extreme, maybe 30 more per bolt and 50 more per crit and I think Arcane Mind would just about make up that difference. Even if it is you still have to ask if the damage difference is worth the survivability you lose.
Just out of curiosity, did you take Arcane Mind into account with your spreadsheet? The gap in damage per bolt is slightly more in my experience. Nothing extreme, maybe 30 more per bolt and 50 more per crit and I think Arcane Mind would just about make up that difference. Even if it is you still have to ask if the damage difference is worth the survivability you lose.
Furburglar wrote:
Yeah no doubt Winter's Chill is the single best raid ability a Frosty has and quite honestly is the reason I am constantly switching between the two builds.
Just out of curiosity, did you take Arcane Mind into account with your spreadsheet? The gap in damage per bolt is slightly more in my experience. Nothing extreme, maybe 30 more per bolt and 50 more per crit and I think Arcane Mind would just about make up that difference. Even if it is you still have to ask if the damage difference is worth the survivability you lose.
Just out of curiosity, did you take Arcane Mind into account with your spreadsheet? The gap in damage per bolt is slightly more in my experience. Nothing extreme, maybe 30 more per bolt and 50 more per crit and I think Arcane Mind would just about make up that difference. Even if it is you still have to ask if the damage difference is worth the survivability you lose.
I did indeed take arcane mind into consideration. I even considered the amount of crit you'd get for that extra int.
Interesting, that's good to know. Perhaps Im just noticing lower end FBs in the Frost spec and higher end ones in the Arcane spec. Im too lazy to actually punch out numbers.
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