Ghostly Strike with MutilateFollow

Well, I had an extra point that I've always wondered where to place, and I've just been tossing it into Sleight of Hand for a little extra hate reduction. After running 5-mans with our regular group, I found it to be worthless, since my friend holds hate without issue. So, I decided to give Ghostly Strike a chance. (Keep in mind, I mainly PvE, and am focused on 5-mans right now.)

Now, I don't have any sword in my inventory, so I don't have a good slow weapon to test it with yet, but it did perform with just my Whispering Blade of Slaying (1.9 speed +4 damage enchant). It was outdamaging SS with just the dagger, and it costs 5 less energy. The added 15% dodge was definitely a nice bonus, and if you find yourself having to use it (or SS) in a mutilate build, it's generally because the mob is pounding on you.

I have to say I'm thoroughly impressed with the ability for just 1 talent point. I'd much rather use Ghostly Strike when a mob is facing me and I need more CPs, verse a SS. Shiv is always an option, but it is situational, and worthless when you have a full stack of DP (and running with DP on the OH). Now I can't wait to see what it does with Vanquisher's!

BTW, since I didn't want to bother with another damn button to press, I made a semi-decent macro for using Ghostly Strike with Sinister Strike (since it has a 20 second cool down). Basically, the macro will reset back to Ghostly Strike after 20 seconds since it was last pressed. Since you can get about 5 SS's in with the standard energy regen, it will count up to 5 after using Ghostly Strike, then automatically reset to Ghostly Strike. It's flawed in that, if you hit the macro, then wait like 10 seconds to hit it again, it will reset the counter, and only be on SS #1, but since you're not using it all too often it works well. Basically it comes in handy per fight, or when you have to be clean up in special situations (like that flower guy in Botanica, killing the little flowers). Using castrandom just sucked...

/castsequence reset=20 Ghostly Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike

Can anyone else add to this? Sounds interesting. I might grab it since i am still leveling and when Ks/CS misses, I get beat up and the extra dodge would help.

Edited, Mar 30th 2007 8:50am by Xaevyn

Maybe I'll put my next point there. Right now i am 41/0/13. Just hit 63 and filled out Initiative. I have 7 points left that i haven't decided where i want them. maybe Ghostly Strike and the rest in Vile poisons.

I would rate up if i could

I still have Initiative in my build...I thought I was going to take it out when I went into 5-mans, but I open with Garrote most of the time there, so the extra CP is important. I'm usually at 5 CP with Garrote>Mute, so if I wasn't using Garrote anymore (and just using Cheap Shot), I would probably drop it in favor of MoD..still need the points in Sub to get down to Serrated Blades either way (god I love that talent on Bosses!).

Sounds like you're heading down the same path I took with my Mute build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ihe0oEMsizVoZVMeo0h

Couple points in FF and 1 point in Camo can be shifted. I'll probably move 2 points out of FF if I get a speed enchant on my boots. Maybe pick Remoreseless back up...dunno yet.

Envenom rocks with Vile. Just don't go using it on boss fights if you don't also have 5/5 Imp Poison and run double deadlys...bosses usually get a SnD, 5pt Rupture rotation from me, unless they are immune to bleeds, then I SnD, 5pt Evis and keep the deadly charges ticking away at 292 a tick. Standard elite mobs get a Garrote > Mute > KS > Mute (x2 if needed) > Envenom.

I really love the finisher options with Mutilate...it's so refreshing from a Combat build.

i have this and hemo, and i can tell it's pretty usefull combination, i recommend you to get it, that dodge is very nice

First off, nice macro djmob, I think I'll use that but substitute hemo for SS.

Ghostly strike does 125% wpn dam, so it will outdamage SS only if the max wpn dam is greater than 164(Whispering Blade of Slaying) w/AP greater than 1650 at lvl 70.

(max base wpn dam + wpn enchant + AP dam) * 1.25 = max GS dam
(164 + 4 + 224)*1.25 = 490

(max base wpn dam + wpn enchant + AP dam + 98) = max SS dam
(164 + 4 + 224 + 98) = 490

Calculated min dam as well using same formulas:
min wpn dam is 109 + 4 = 113, so

421 min GS dam
435 min SS dam

421-490 GS dam
435-490 SS dam

Crits are effected the same by lethality so no need to calculate that. Basically identical dam, GS is slightly better max dam provided 1650+ AP and with group buffs(or when those trinkets proc or are used) you should always have more AP than 1650. This seems a good use of energy(same cost as imp SS, 40 energy) for the mut/sub specd rogue.
However, must mut specd rogues don't have enough base dodge for this to really be effective. Sub spec with 5/5 in dodge I have 47% unbuffed(not specd that way now, but spec that way for farming occasionally), so 15% more puts me at 62% every 20sec. If attacked by multiple mobs I'll try to use it with Moroes dodge trinket(2min cooldown) which is another 15% = 77% dodge without using evasion. Granted this is only for 7sec, but nice to have when evasion is on cooldown. Combined with Setup you can generate some CPs as well, especially with multiple mobs attacking you(just make sure they are all in front of you). Grp buffed(ie Blessing of Kings, Gift of Wild) I have over 50% dodge, so pop evasion and I'm completely unhittable by melee in front of me. This is not true in Heroic dungeons, some attacks are not able to be dodged, but for normal dungeons it can be a good skill if you are the only melee alive and can tank a boss for the last 20% dam because he's just not hitting you.


Edited, Mar 30th 2007 4:17pm by mahlerite

Not quite that simple. Ghostly Strike is not normalized, so it will outdamage Sinister Strike in virtually all situations simply because it will get a higher multiplier (if your MH weapon speed is lower than the normalized speed you are RETARDED!).

well AP damage is always

AP/14*weaponspeed

In SS, weapon speed is set depending on the weapon. Swords, for example, is 2.5 seconds no matter what.

Daggers is 1.7, dunno about the others.

So if you have a sword with a speed of 2.7, the speed in the equation for SS still uses 2.5 seconds, while in ghostly strikes it uses 2.7 seconds.

Yeah, the normalization of weapon speed completely changed how damage was calculated, moreso than you'd think. The Barman Shanker used to outperform raid level epic daggers simply because it was slower and got more of a bonus to AP.

Serrated Blades isn't really worth the points for a Mutilate build, there are more fun things in the Assassination tree. But yeah, I'd say it's definitely worth the point.

I used it a great many times when I needed to tank something for a bit (nearly dead mob/boss and the tank bites the dust). It's also a powerful solo ability that will reduce downtime by taking less damage, and deal decent damage even with a dagger.

Hard to go wrong for one point, too.

For a Mutilate spec, Envenom is by far the best finisher in every case I've come across. The idea behind Rupture is that you want non-mitigated damage. Envenom does exactly that, and does a lot more of it.


They re-proc in seconds, and you'll only lose maybe 100-200 damage from the poison ticks on average, if that much.


20%? I've got 23% decked out in virtually nothing but AP gear, and I know many people who are pushing 30%.


Why on earth are you using SnD as a Assassination/Sub rogue? Only real use for it in that build is putting your first CP into it so you can get Find Weakness early.


I don't mean to sound like an ***, but L2Feint. If you're gimping your DPS to not pull threat, either you have a crappy tank or you're not feinting enough.


Imp. KS and Quick Recovery are both great talents to have. Master Poisoner would be amazing if I had the points to spare. The Assassination tree offers a great deal of very useful talents. These talents, in my opinion, provide a great deal more utility than a 2% increase in physical damage.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 11:22am by Nooblestick

If you have serated blades you should be using a rupture and SnD cycle and letting your deadly poison tick. For simple tank and spank fights you can often apply instant poison to one of your weapons and deadly to the other and keep up a full stack of deadly via SnD and Mutilate.

Assuming 1500ap and 30% crit rate, 3/3 serated blades and 5/5 vile poisons, rupture will do more damage than a 5 point envenom by a few points.

5 point rupture = 1768 damage over 16 seconds
5 point envenom = 1755 average damage instantly (2700 crits at 30% with 1350 hits at 70%)

Rupture gains a bonus of 24% of your total ap added on to it's damage - 1 point and 5 point ruptures both get the same amount of bonus damage. Envenom gains 3% per CP. Rupture cannot be partially or fully resisted, though I've rarely seen this occur with envenom. In either case, if you have both tallents, it's generally more favorable to allow your deadly poisons to tick and use your CP for a SnD/rupture cycle.