Let me start of by saying that I love Mutilate. I honestly think it is the best "do it all" spec. It is great in PvP, leveling, instances, etc. I was hoping that I could keep that spec because I had heard that its damage was close to Combat daggers. This is just not true. Combat Daggers easily surpasses Mutilate in DPS.
I was really becoming quite depressed. As a rogue, all we have is DPS. Our CC is decent but not fantastic. But in so many instances, others were out DPSing me. I felt that either we needed a buff or some other classes needed a nerf. Would people only want Rogues to LP chests and doors for them?
But there is a lot in a spec...and while I still think there is some balance that needs to be worked out, it isn't as bad as I thought before.
While theorycrafters would want numbers...I really don't have that. But I was running instances all day with a warlock friend of mine. In the morning I was spec'd Mutilate and he was easily out DPSing me. I tried as hard as I could to be doing the highest amount of damage possible but he had no trouble out pacing me. He got offline so I respc'd Combat and when he got back on we ran some more instances together. Because I was generating so much threat so quickly I had to hold off on using Blade Fury and Adrenaline Rush so that the poor tank could keep aggro. I was easily able to out pace the Warlock even without using those. I ran a few other instances and felt really good because everyone was blown away with the DPS I was doing.
In any case, I have to say a fond farewell to Mutilate. It was a great spec. But I really like to be optimal when I am playing a class. And while it isn't really surprising...Combat is still the king of DPS.
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Combat still king of dpsFollow
combat is more multi mob dps while muta is for single mob. good luck to you as you seem very comfortable with your combat.
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I'm a level 55 rogue and i still dont know which talent build to do for max DPS for my level. Can anyone show me a good talent build for a lvl 55 ? i duel two daggers, gut ripper and shadowblade. Which one for OH and which for MH ? if anyone could do me a talent build using a talent calculator that would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
MiK
Thanks in advance,
MiK
I went through the EXACT same thing. Other dps classes were out dpsing me by a huge margin as a subtlety rogue, and I had the same issue as an Assassination rogue.
I respecced to full combat and in instances no one (except mages) have come close.
It's actually pretty good for PvP as well. As long as I have all my cooldowns I can almost beat any class. (again, there was this one frost mage though, I couldn't beat in a duel if my life depended on it)
I haven't tried combat daggers yet though, I've been either combat swords or fists.
So you can confirm you are still topping damage meters as combat daggers? Interesting. I've been kicking myself because I went Scryer not Aldor, and Aldor has a one hand sword that I want, Scryer has the dagger, but maybe I'll give the dagger a try once I reach exalted
I respecced to full combat and in instances no one (except mages) have come close.
It's actually pretty good for PvP as well. As long as I have all my cooldowns I can almost beat any class. (again, there was this one frost mage though, I couldn't beat in a duel if my life depended on it)
I haven't tried combat daggers yet though, I've been either combat swords or fists.
So you can confirm you are still topping damage meters as combat daggers? Interesting. I've been kicking myself because I went Scryer not Aldor, and Aldor has a one hand sword that I want, Scryer has the dagger, but maybe I'll give the dagger a try once I reach exalted
MiKaKaSwift wrote:
I'm a level 55 rogue and i still dont know which talent build to do for max DPS for my level. Can anyone show me a good talent build for a lvl 55 ? i duel two daggers, gut ripper and shadowblade. Which one for OH and which for MH ? if anyone could do me a talent build using a talent calculator that would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
MiK
Thanks in advance,
MiK
You want to put Gut Ripper in your MH and Shadowblade in your OH. Try and run BRD to get Barman Shanker to replace Gut Ripper, it has a better topend and a slower speed(awesome Muti dagger).
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While theorycrafters would want numbers...I really don't have that.
Tell them to find one of the spreadsheets out there or do the math themselves. Depeneding on who you ask, combat daggers will do 6-9% more damage. Mut is a lot like the old SF build. You can take it anywhere and be competive.
While I do believe combat spec is the best dps spec, I still have yet to be outdamaged in a raid run in full sub spec. And let me also say the only class that should come close to outdpsing you is warlocks. You should be able to outdps all but the best geared mages and any hunters in any rogue spec that has any kind of synergy at all. However, specs are so gear dependant that in order to maximize your dps for a certain spec you may have to give up things you would want in a more balanced spec. As I run more heroic instances and get more and better gear its becoming clearer that AP is really the stat to maximize. Still need to try and keep crit around 25%, but increasing white dam is very important.
Currently at 1736 AP unbuffed, had over 2900 in Kara the other night(got a few procs to go off at same time was awesome - mongoose, the Unraveller trinket and, when i noticed those go off, added the Bladefists breath trinket, this happened twice during the same fight, had to vanish about 20 sec after procs wore off both times, thank god for prep) and climbed to the top of the threat meter in matter of secs against Moroes. I was white criting for over 1.5k and yellow crits for hemo and GS were 1.5-1.8k, mostly use rupture as finisher but threw in a couple envenoms that did over 2.5k, wished i had imp evis at that point just to see what kinda #s i could have gotten:)
Edited, Mar 31st 2007 10:26am by mahlerite
Currently at 1736 AP unbuffed, had over 2900 in Kara the other night(got a few procs to go off at same time was awesome - mongoose, the Unraveller trinket and, when i noticed those go off, added the Bladefists breath trinket, this happened twice during the same fight, had to vanish about 20 sec after procs wore off both times, thank god for prep) and climbed to the top of the threat meter in matter of secs against Moroes. I was white criting for over 1.5k and yellow crits for hemo and GS were 1.5-1.8k, mostly use rupture as finisher but threw in a couple envenoms that did over 2.5k, wished i had imp evis at that point just to see what kinda #s i could have gotten:)
Edited, Mar 31st 2007 10:26am by mahlerite
It might be gear or it might be player skill however I come roughly 2% higher dps (group dps not me vs him) when we went though underbog. I'm cold blood muta and he's combat swords. We went in at 65 (him) and 64 (me) my weapons are the underbog dagger + felstriker in off hand. his was the quest dagger from south of the outlands city. (the 1.8 speed and +30 attack power) and another quest dagger green for off hand.
it might be that I'm more willing to hunt for equipment than him but who knows either way.
it might be that I'm more willing to hunt for equipment than him but who knows either way.
Really, you are gimping yourself with a Sub spec as far as instance runs go. That spec is all about upfront damage. Yeah, the AP and AGI boosts are great and everyone can wow at how high your AP is...but seriously, the best way to measure is switch to a combat build and look at how much better you are doing comparatively. I guarantee you will be doing more damage. Of course, if your tanks can't handle the DPS then it doesn't really matter.
I 100% disagree that any spec (like Mutilate) is going to allow you to beat others. The only way you can do that is with gear. Shadow priests and Warlocks both have the advantage in DPS right now given equal gear.
Combat is not multi mob at all. You get one skill that attacks 2 things at once every 3 minutes. While that helps us not lose in AoE heavy instances so much...it certainly doesn't change that we are single-target, high DPS with no need to rest. Even if blade fury didn't attack two at once, it would still out damage Mutilate with little effort.
I 100% disagree that any spec (like Mutilate) is going to allow you to beat others. The only way you can do that is with gear. Shadow priests and Warlocks both have the advantage in DPS right now given equal gear.
Combat is not multi mob at all. You get one skill that attacks 2 things at once every 3 minutes. While that helps us not lose in AoE heavy instances so much...it certainly doesn't change that we are single-target, high DPS with no need to rest. Even if blade fury didn't attack two at once, it would still out damage Mutilate with little effort.
41/20/0 (combat mutilate) puts out very respectable raid DPS and is more well rounded than something like combat daggers. I'm currently playing the latter because I wanted to pick up imp sap for some heroic runs; however, I plan to go back to 41/20/0 as soon as Malc drops or I get enough points for my arena MH dagger.
Honestly, the difference isn't that big between the two builds, it really just depends on how well you can pay attention and how dynamic the fight is as a whole. If you can just stand behind the mob and do pure tank and spank damage over a very long period of time, combat daggers comes out a bit ahead of combat mute (note the difference isn't really that huge between the two to begin with for sustained damage). Also, mutilate has an obvious problem when you get put up against a poison imune boss/mob.
Mutilate does have some good things going for it. It's quite fun to play overall. The combo point generation is nice for both farming and PvP - I don't do many arenas, but I like to BG, and the build holds it's own. The few rogues that I know who actively try to be successful in the arenas love 41/20... go figure. It's a good all around build. 20% extra healing is very noticeable in raids/organized PvP, 10% damage from FW is up for a good portion of every fight because of the rate at which you use finishers. CB is always a nice PvP tallent to have, and the poison tallents are nice DPS boosts. Of course you also have vigor and SF - the latter being a very nice PvP and PvE tallent.
It just really depends on what you want to play. I'm playing 13/41/7 daggers right now... and I can't wait to respec back to mute. While the combat build isn't bad, it's not as versatile as the mutilate build IMHO. If you're in the top 0.1% of raiding guilds - combat daggers or SS combat builds are probably the way to go (IE all your focus is on raiding anyway).
In any case... don't be affraid to respec often :P 50g isn't all that hard to farm... that's like 30 minutes...
Honestly, the difference isn't that big between the two builds, it really just depends on how well you can pay attention and how dynamic the fight is as a whole. If you can just stand behind the mob and do pure tank and spank damage over a very long period of time, combat daggers comes out a bit ahead of combat mute (note the difference isn't really that huge between the two to begin with for sustained damage). Also, mutilate has an obvious problem when you get put up against a poison imune boss/mob.
Mutilate does have some good things going for it. It's quite fun to play overall. The combo point generation is nice for both farming and PvP - I don't do many arenas, but I like to BG, and the build holds it's own. The few rogues that I know who actively try to be successful in the arenas love 41/20... go figure. It's a good all around build. 20% extra healing is very noticeable in raids/organized PvP, 10% damage from FW is up for a good portion of every fight because of the rate at which you use finishers. CB is always a nice PvP tallent to have, and the poison tallents are nice DPS boosts. Of course you also have vigor and SF - the latter being a very nice PvP and PvE tallent.
It just really depends on what you want to play. I'm playing 13/41/7 daggers right now... and I can't wait to respec back to mute. While the combat build isn't bad, it's not as versatile as the mutilate build IMHO. If you're in the top 0.1% of raiding guilds - combat daggers or SS combat builds are probably the way to go (IE all your focus is on raiding anyway).
In any case... don't be affraid to respec often :P 50g isn't all that hard to farm... that's like 30 minutes...
41/20/0 doesn't have Imp. Sap. Since I have to do a lot of 5 mans, not really an option. You also are passing on Opp (which is the right thing to do since the combat talents will yield more of an advantage, but still, kinda sucks). No argument that Mutilate is more versatile. But even 41/20 isn't going to keep up with combat. It has the same positional weaknesses as combat daggers. You can argue that it can help raid DPS with Imp. KS but individually you will be doing less damage.
Quick recovery is nice, of course.
Don't get me wrong here...I am not saying Mutilate shouldn't be used in instances. I am just saying that you are not going to be doing as much DPS as combat daggers. You gain some versatility...if you really were doing more DPS then everyone would spec that way.
Quick recovery is nice, of course.
Don't get me wrong here...I am not saying Mutilate shouldn't be used in instances. I am just saying that you are not going to be doing as much DPS as combat daggers. You gain some versatility...if you really were doing more DPS then everyone would spec that way.
blizzard actually paid attention to class builds for once while making instances, almost all bosses in instances that i know of can be poisoned, maybe not the trash mobs but if not just use BS, but all bosses you seem to be able to get some form of poison up on them.
i still think 41/20 would come out on top of combat daggers, not by a huge sum like you urself have pointed out(LordM), but with the fantastic CP gen uve got Snd up (so DW spec is adding up the white dmg) all the time, plus your able to throw in a bunch of envenoms, also have to take in to consideration the fact that yea you do regen CPs so quickly that you can get off a finishing move basically whenever your energy allows it so id be bold enough to so that you would have find weakness up on that mob atleast 85-90% of the time, 10% dmg might not seem that huge in burst situations but over a 8min boss fight thats a lot of extra dmg.
just my 2cents
Edited, Mar 31st 2007 6:45pm by Scracky
i still think 41/20 would come out on top of combat daggers, not by a huge sum like you urself have pointed out(LordM), but with the fantastic CP gen uve got Snd up (so DW spec is adding up the white dmg) all the time, plus your able to throw in a bunch of envenoms, also have to take in to consideration the fact that yea you do regen CPs so quickly that you can get off a finishing move basically whenever your energy allows it so id be bold enough to so that you would have find weakness up on that mob atleast 85-90% of the time, 10% dmg might not seem that huge in burst situations but over a 8min boss fight thats a lot of extra dmg.
just my 2cents
Edited, Mar 31st 2007 6:45pm by Scracky
Phaltruism wrote:
41/20/0 doesn't have Imp. Sap. Since I have to do a lot of 5 mans, not really an option. You also are passing on Opp (which is the right thing to do since the combat talents will yield more of an advantage, but still, kinda sucks). No argument that Mutilate is more versatile. But even 41/20 isn't going to keep up with combat. It has the same positional weaknesses as combat daggers. You can argue that it can help raid DPS with Imp. KS but individually you will be doing less damage.
Quick recovery is nice, of course.
Don't get me wrong here...I am not saying Mutilate shouldn't be used in instances. I am just saying that you are not going to be doing as much DPS as combat daggers. You gain some versatility...if you really were doing more DPS then everyone would spec that way.
Quick recovery is nice, of course.
Don't get me wrong here...I am not saying Mutilate shouldn't be used in instances. I am just saying that you are not going to be doing as much DPS as combat daggers. You gain some versatility...if you really were doing more DPS then everyone would spec that way.
Yeah, stupid imp sap... that's why I'm combat daggers right now :/ Makes heroics w/o a mage much easier on everyone.
As far as the DPS comparison between the two. Depending on what daggers you have, combat daggers actually does less damage that combat mutilate on poisonable bosses. The dps gap is so small that it depends on the ballance of your offhand weapon. Faster weapons being better for combat by virtue of more CP procs... and slower OH's with higher base damage ranges being better for mutilate. When I say the gap is very small - I mean very small. IE, generally the more attentive player or the one who just simply gets a bit better luck will win out given equal skill. DPS between the two also depends on your hit rating. High hit rating with lower crit rating will always favor combat daggers... higher crit with lower hit will always favor combat mutilate. Not saying both stats aren't usefull for both builds (obviously they are), it's just that mute scales better with crit... and combat (mostly via combat potency) scales better with hit.
raiding has really just begun for mutilate builds now that theirs so many options, before TBC combat daggers were the way to go(my opinion), like i said above raiding has really just started in BC depending on guilds, so its far to soon to judge weather or not a build can out dps another or not.
who knows 41/20 could shine and in a few months every dagger loving rogue is specc;d that for the sole purposing of raiding, not talking 5mans either because 41/20 does hurt in that department cuz no imp sapp.
a rogue that is 41/x/20 with serrated blades, the night blade in MH and high dmg OH could very well out dps both combat and mutil/dw
serrated blades the night blade MH gladiator shanker OH your ignoring 1655 armor something like that, plus find weakness and all that other fun stuff, mongoose on both your looking at like 30+crit chance huge AP its nasty.. night blade is by far the best dagger in the game idc what anyone else says.
ask all these top arena rogues why theyve still got them in their MH
who knows 41/20 could shine and in a few months every dagger loving rogue is specc;d that for the sole purposing of raiding, not talking 5mans either because 41/20 does hurt in that department cuz no imp sapp.
a rogue that is 41/x/20 with serrated blades, the night blade in MH and high dmg OH could very well out dps both combat and mutil/dw
serrated blades the night blade MH gladiator shanker OH your ignoring 1655 armor something like that, plus find weakness and all that other fun stuff, mongoose on both your looking at like 30+crit chance huge AP its nasty.. night blade is by far the best dagger in the game idc what anyone else says.
ask all these top arena rogues why theyve still got them in their MH
As far as the Nightblade goes (an awesome weapon as it is), It's not the best choice for a MH weapon for PvE. However, it will last as a great OH for quite a while (especially with 41/20/0). Having raid gear with plenty of hit, keeping SnD up 100%, and having an instant attack with your OH means that you can keep the proc up nearly 100% of the time while having it in your OH - freeing your MH up for a dagger with a better damage range.
That being said, I've yet to see one on my server on the AH. I haven't heard about anyone getting one to drop... and I haven't seen any rogues with one equipt. The money to buy the thing is the easy part... you have to find one first it seems.
As far as DPS concerns go, I highly doubt the "good" builds are going to see many chances as time goes on. Combat daggers now is essentially the same as it was pre BC with 10 more points in combat. Mute didn't exist until the before the storm patch - and many people were already praising 41/20/0 as an awesome jack of all trades build. There's been plenty of mathcraft to sort out builds - it's not really hard to make a simple program or spreadsheet that's capeable of simulating average damage. Combat daggers is still the best pure tank and spank raid build. However, with mutilate comming in, you now have a much more viable choice if you want to do other things well too. As someone currently playing combat daggers, it does put out good numbers. It doesn't seem to be putting out anything that 41/20 was not capeable of - the gap is very small. The advantage for me was just having imp sap. Sustained damage hasn't really changed...
I want a nightblade dammit... just to toy around with...
That being said, I've yet to see one on my server on the AH. I haven't heard about anyone getting one to drop... and I haven't seen any rogues with one equipt. The money to buy the thing is the easy part... you have to find one first it seems.
As far as DPS concerns go, I highly doubt the "good" builds are going to see many chances as time goes on. Combat daggers now is essentially the same as it was pre BC with 10 more points in combat. Mute didn't exist until the before the storm patch - and many people were already praising 41/20/0 as an awesome jack of all trades build. There's been plenty of mathcraft to sort out builds - it's not really hard to make a simple program or spreadsheet that's capeable of simulating average damage. Combat daggers is still the best pure tank and spank raid build. However, with mutilate comming in, you now have a much more viable choice if you want to do other things well too. As someone currently playing combat daggers, it does put out good numbers. It doesn't seem to be putting out anything that 41/20 was not capeable of - the gap is very small. The advantage for me was just having imp sap. Sustained damage hasn't really changed...
I want a nightblade dammit... just to toy around with...
ive seen about 3-4 on rogues and about 3 selling, one for 600g, another for 1200BO which sold and anothing that was a private sale from trade channel so no clue on the amount paid, but well worth the money spent at either range gold wise, most rogues will tell you that their seeing 3stack on themselves in as low as 4-5secs, best part is that it doesnt effect sunders like EA does because its a buff on yourself like find weakness, not on the targetted mob
i love this weapon already, looks great to, supposely looks crazy on flying mount to.. looks like a jet thats been tagged and is trailing fire and smoke, all i can say is i just cant wait to get my hands on this.
i love this weapon already, looks great to, supposely looks crazy on flying mount to.. looks like a jet thats been tagged and is trailing fire and smoke, all i can say is i just cant wait to get my hands on this.
Sub spec is not entirely all ' upfront damage'. Imp rupture is certainly not 'upfront damage' and neither is hemo(the only rogue talent that benefits others).
While ShS, master of sub, premed, initiative, opportunity(although this isn't completely restricted to the initial dam) and imp ambush are all about increasing that initial burst of dam, other talents like prep, enveloping shadows, ghostly strike, heightened senses, sleight of hand, master of deception, imp sap, and cheat death are all about keeping you alive through various means.
While sub spec does do the most 'upfront damage', you can still do good dam by using your other talents wisely. 20 pts in assassination provides you with good CP generation help as well as increased dam thru crit chance, crit dam and imp envenom. And while you may think the 'look at my uber AP' is some kind of boast, it is not. It is merely a necesity to do the max dam in my current spec. Blizz did a nice job by making sub spec viable as a high dps spec, and while i'm sure i won't top the combat specs in my guild once they get geared, it'll mostly be because they'll be getting an extra 10 dam per hit thanks to my 'upfront damage'.
While ShS, master of sub, premed, initiative, opportunity(although this isn't completely restricted to the initial dam) and imp ambush are all about increasing that initial burst of dam, other talents like prep, enveloping shadows, ghostly strike, heightened senses, sleight of hand, master of deception, imp sap, and cheat death are all about keeping you alive through various means.
While sub spec does do the most 'upfront damage', you can still do good dam by using your other talents wisely. 20 pts in assassination provides you with good CP generation help as well as increased dam thru crit chance, crit dam and imp envenom. And while you may think the 'look at my uber AP' is some kind of boast, it is not. It is merely a necesity to do the max dam in my current spec. Blizz did a nice job by making sub spec viable as a high dps spec, and while i'm sure i won't top the combat specs in my guild once they get geared, it'll mostly be because they'll be getting an extra 10 dam per hit thanks to my 'upfront damage'.
emm just to clarify. my muta build was 41/7/7
his is 15/41/0 we've been doing some questing together and I think it's more player skill and than build or gear. Generally I was making more use of the + 50% damage from poisoned targets for mutalate, + 10% damge for moves after use of ending moves in conjunction with the specic bonus 3 second of crits with the felstriker to create dps spams. ie get 4 combat points = use move and hope I get the extra 25 energy and extra combat point. if lucky, I exceed his combat potential for a few second but if not, he has a lager consistant dps.
his is 15/41/0 we've been doing some questing together and I think it's more player skill and than build or gear. Generally I was making more use of the + 50% damage from poisoned targets for mutalate, + 10% damge for moves after use of ending moves in conjunction with the specic bonus 3 second of crits with the felstriker to create dps spams. ie get 4 combat points = use move and hope I get the extra 25 energy and extra combat point. if lucky, I exceed his combat potential for a few second but if not, he has a lager consistant dps.
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Sub spec is not entirely all ' upfront damage'. Imp rupture is certainly not 'upfront damage' and neither is hemo(the only rogue talent that benefits others).
While ShS, master of sub, premed, initiative, opportunity(although this isn't completely restricted to the initial dam) and imp ambush are all about increasing that initial burst of dam, other talents like prep, enveloping shadows, ghostly strike, heightened senses, sleight of hand, master of deception, imp sap, and cheat death are all about keeping you alive through various means.
While ShS, master of sub, premed, initiative, opportunity(although this isn't completely restricted to the initial dam) and imp ambush are all about increasing that initial burst of dam, other talents like prep, enveloping shadows, ghostly strike, heightened senses, sleight of hand, master of deception, imp sap, and cheat death are all about keeping you alive through various means.
Rupture only matters in a raid if you have the CP generation to use it while keeping SnD up. If you're using hemo, your CP generation is about equal to combat swords. If you're using backstab, it's less. If you're shadowstep with all those extra talents for staying alive and the other rogues in the raid aren't dying, all of those extra talents are essentially worthless. Especially when you consider the potential damage you've given up taking these talents.
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While sub spec does do the most 'upfront damage', you can still do good dam by using your other talents wisely. 20 pts in assassination provides you with good CP generation help as well as increased dam thru crit chance, crit dam and imp envenom.
There's a reason why every build spends all of their leftover points in the lower tiers of assassination. You have 20 points where combat builds only have 15-18. The extra points in vile poisons will not give you the boost needed to compare with combat.
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And while you may think the 'look at my uber AP' is some kind of boast, it is not. It is merely a necesity to do the max dam in my current spec. Blizz did a nice job by making sub spec viable as a high dps spec, and while i'm sure i won't top the combat specs in my guild once they get geared, it'll mostly be because they'll be getting an extra 10 dam per hit thanks to my 'upfront damage'.
Sinister calling and deadliness are needed to make heavy sub decent out of stealth. Shadowstep has the highest burst damage and the losest sustained damage of any spec. The other rogues aren't beating you because you're giving the raid an extra 86 dps. They're going to beat you because the difference between your dps and theirs is a lot more than 86.
In 5 mans, you can easily get away with a Hemo build, in raids you can not. It is that simple so stop debating the point. Raids = sustained DPS, 5 mans more or less = more burst oriented DPS.
Mutilate and any position senstive build suffers alot when you have to move so keep that in mind too.
If you are gonna raid, stick to a Combat variant or you will put out lower damage than anyone.
And for those who are curious, Hemo builds have better front end damage with a forgiving aggro ceiling (Garrotte, Rupture, Deadly Poison x5), then you have exactly enough time to maintain a 5 point Rupture at all times plus your Poisons. Basically, you are using Rupture to offset the DPS lost from lack of SnD which works out better in 5 mans, but starts to drop off after a while.
Mutilate and any position senstive build suffers alot when you have to move so keep that in mind too.
If you are gonna raid, stick to a Combat variant or you will put out lower damage than anyone.
And for those who are curious, Hemo builds have better front end damage with a forgiving aggro ceiling (Garrotte, Rupture, Deadly Poison x5), then you have exactly enough time to maintain a 5 point Rupture at all times plus your Poisons. Basically, you are using Rupture to offset the DPS lost from lack of SnD which works out better in 5 mans, but starts to drop off after a while.
i'm not sure really how you classifie a hemo build but it is possible to take combat all teh way down to full combat potency and still have hemo... you can even get propp if you take 4 points in combat potency.. that would meen 2 AR on a boss for example. isn't that worth to take with in the calculations?
+ the armor reduce from serrated blades i think you still should be abel to keep up a high dps even in raids with a hemo+combat build.
+ the armor reduce from serrated blades i think you still should be abel to keep up a high dps even in raids with a hemo+combat build.
So you are saying to trade in +5% crit, +60% to get a free CP and +25 energy off of a finisher, 20% in +crit damage for a hemo strike that costs 5 less energy than Imp. SS?
Serrated Edges mean nothing, you will be doing less damage than Assassination/X.
Serrated Edges mean nothing, you will be doing less damage than Assassination/X.
well i do lack alot of things there but mostly i think i've found some kind of substitute in my build.
the combopoints from ruthlessness > i do have setup + 5 points in lightning rexles, ghostly strike and evasion to gain combopints from. (even 2 evasions with preparation)
the energy i gain back from finishing moves with relentless strike i sould get some back from combat potency that i can get with 4 points in (if i have preparation)
the crits i miss from malice i should get some crit aswell by using fist and fist expertice ( i know 10% crit with both fist and malice but you cant have everything in life)
then about lethality. i have seen alot of build with everything that should be in combat and then all that they want from assasination, but then they miss out imp sap.
imo imp sap is one of the most usefull talents for a rogue and everyone should have it.i've seen use of it from everything to raiding to pvp...
so it's either imp sap or lethality since you don't have points for both. so i choose imp sap in this point.
one thing i lack from no using a point in assasionation is imp evi, but since i would much rather use rupture in some kind of boss fight (or plate in pvp) i do get 30% extra dmg on that attack. so it's mostly a question of that you want to use as finishing move, for me it would be SnD and rupture then. aswell as expose armor sometime i guess.
So I do lose a bit dmg from things as lehality, but usually those that use lethality dont have imp sap, i can make up for some of the crit lose by using fists.i make up for some of the combopoints by dodging. not to mention i do get 2 AR this way that will give alot more dmg since most wont have that opportunity in a fight.
not to mention the small dmg boost a raid would get by my hemorrage.
this build is that i've been talking about.
the combopoints from ruthlessness > i do have setup + 5 points in lightning rexles, ghostly strike and evasion to gain combopints from. (even 2 evasions with preparation)
the energy i gain back from finishing moves with relentless strike i sould get some back from combat potency that i can get with 4 points in (if i have preparation)
the crits i miss from malice i should get some crit aswell by using fist and fist expertice ( i know 10% crit with both fist and malice but you cant have everything in life)
then about lethality. i have seen alot of build with everything that should be in combat and then all that they want from assasination, but then they miss out imp sap.
imo imp sap is one of the most usefull talents for a rogue and everyone should have it.i've seen use of it from everything to raiding to pvp...
so it's either imp sap or lethality since you don't have points for both. so i choose imp sap in this point.
one thing i lack from no using a point in assasionation is imp evi, but since i would much rather use rupture in some kind of boss fight (or plate in pvp) i do get 30% extra dmg on that attack. so it's mostly a question of that you want to use as finishing move, for me it would be SnD and rupture then. aswell as expose armor sometime i guess.
So I do lose a bit dmg from things as lehality, but usually those that use lethality dont have imp sap, i can make up for some of the crit lose by using fists.i make up for some of the combopoints by dodging. not to mention i do get 2 AR this way that will give alot more dmg since most wont have that opportunity in a fight.
not to mention the small dmg boost a raid would get by my hemorrage.
this build is that i've been talking about.
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