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MM raid spec?Follow

#1 Apr 01 2007 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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149 posts
Hello,
I will be 70 in the next week or so and I was wondering what my raiding spec should look like. Raiding is completly new to me (I was only 55 when BC came out) so I'm not exactly sure how things work. I'm assumeing that MM is the spec to go when it comes to raiding because the pet will be staying back or not be out at all.

This is what I have so far. I took the 3 points in survival because I thought the extra range would be good for staying out of AOE range.

So, can I get some advice and tips please?
#2 Apr 01 2007 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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267 posts
im not gonna go into whats best etc but as a start and something to get you going you can check my spec at the armory (click my name in th sig)

the trap talent really isnt a must, but its nice to have as a backup altho its more for 5mans(got a bit fooled from the start in kz where its really nice to have up to the 3rd boss but unfortunatly more or less useless after)

extra range is always nice to have,apart from that just think damage damage damage
#3 Apr 01 2007 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
imp. concussive?
imp. stings?
concussive barrage?
endurance training?

no imp. mark?
no monster/humanoid slaying?
no efficiency?
no imp. aspect of the hawk?
no mortal shots?!?!?!?!?

and i am personally not a big fan of rapid killing since it only helps on trash/bosses with a crapload of adds.
Imp. Mark can be dropped if another hunter in the raid has it.
(the extra dmg it gives to melee dmg is great for 1 hunter to have.)
so i'd end up with this with mark
and this without mark

Edited, Apr 1st 2007 10:00pm by Aethien
#4 Apr 01 2007 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
47 posts
Aethian has the right idea with raiding specs. The idea is to maximize dps in anyway possible. I have some issues with his specs but they're basically what they should look like. Heres how I would have based off of Aethian's builds.
Imp. Mark:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?5020000000000000000000555001205013253135122300000000000000000000

And without:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?5020000000000000000000505051205013253135122300000000000000000000

I like the 2 min off of rapid fire but it isn't a necessary talent to put points into. Also, if you're wanting to go raiding most of the time you wont be using conc. shot so the points into improved are wasted. Imp. arcane shot is a must, the reduced cooldown adds some good extra dps to your ******** You generally wont have your pet doing damage (due to the cleaves blizz has added to most mobs) unless you have a windserpent and so you wont need endurance training. I personally don't like go for the throat because of the fact that I don't have my pet attacking, but it can be good if you like pvping or soloing on the side. A few of the points are really up to you and how you tend to play. Good luck and happy hunting.

This is my spec in case you wanted to know: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?5020000000000000000000505051205013253135122300000000000000000000
#5 Apr 01 2007 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
the only real difference is that i dont like rapid killing and you do.
but then again, i have never raided so i'm just guessing. and my pet will probably attack because i use a bird (for screech) and i want to make sure that debuff stays on the target.


and what is the use of rapid killing?
as far as i can see, it only helps if you are killing groups.
so it only works in raids at either trash groups, or bosses with a good number of adds (that is, if it procs off of someone in the raid killing stuff...)

so you basically come down to this with 2 points to spend in either go for the thraot, rapid killing or monster/humanoid slaying or 3 points to remove from things to get imp. mark

Edited, Apr 1st 2007 10:53pm by Aethien
#6 Apr 01 2007 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
47 posts
In raiding, rapid killing is nice because it works similarly to Improve Aspect of the Hawk in which you get a speed increase which in turn increases dps (shots fired at higher rate = more shots fired = more damage). I didn't put points into it for the damage increase off of mob death.
#7 Apr 01 2007 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
so you did it for the 2 minute less cooldown on rapid fire...
guess thats a reason to put it there...
#8 Apr 01 2007 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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346 posts
Quote:
Aethian has the right idea with raiding specs. The idea is to maximize dps in anyway possible


Partly true, but not exactly. Let me explain...
Hunter's aren't all aboubt DPS. No, although they're considered safe DPS, they are much, much more. In groups, a good hunter serves as an off-tank, CC, damage, aggro management (misdirect) and more. All speccs are viable for raiding, they all have their own advantages. Survival and Beast Mastery are more utility and Marksmanship is more damage. But no for the OPs question

For a BM raiding Build, I would go something like this
For Marksmanship, I would go something like this
And for survival, this looks very nice.

Granted, some of these talents can be switched. My favorite raiding one is survival though. I mean, the talents will keep you shooting for longer with the extra hp and mana regain talents like Thrill of the Hunt. Also, with some of the Imp. traps you will be able to chain trap amazingly while fighting. Keeping enemies frozen for extended periods of time. But I'm not the best hunter, and you don't have to listen to me, also some of these talents may be swaped. It's all what you enjoy.

Btw, get a windserpent for the short ranged breath or a wolf for the AP buff if you want your pet out of AoE range and don't plan on using it for damage.
#9 Apr 01 2007 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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149 posts
Quote:
I personally don't like go for the throat because of the fact that I don't have my pet attacking, but it can be good if you like pvping or soloing on the side.

Like I said, I'v never been at the end game so I'm not 100% sure that I'll be raiding and doing nothing else. I do plan on soloing for a while to get rep up for Heroic keys, but as far as I can tell MM should still be able to do all that (and MM is suposed to be great for PvP because of the extra dammage).

I got improved stings because I use stings constantly so I figured that would carry over with raids. I did not get Mortal Shots because I remember seeing something a few months ago (not sure where) that showed that Mortal Shots only increased your DPS by like 7%.

ArthasTheBetrayer: Those links are not working. And ya, I am planing on getting one of those pets.

Thanks for the input so far.



#10 Apr 01 2007 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
keniguana wrote:
I personally don't like go for the throat because of the fact that I don't have my pet attacking, but it can be good if you like pvping or soloing on the side.

GftT is incredibly useful in raids, since you should have a wolf or a wind serpent. GftT procs will enable you to spam Furious Howl/Lightning Breath more, thus adding to your DPS.
#11 Apr 01 2007 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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346 posts
Oops they're not, sorry. Not very good with ULRs and links. But, you got the idea right? Btw, stings? Idk, I don't really use them much, mabye scorpid or viper but since Steady Shot Serpent isn't the best for me. But milage my vary.
#12 Apr 02 2007 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
Go For the Throat can give your pet 50 focus on a crit. That's another Furious Howl / Lightning Breath / Claw attack against your target to help hold aggro or for raid dps.

Rapid Killing is incredible. Boss fights take a -long- time now. Being able to use Rapid Fire several times per boss fight increases your damage done and helps finish the encounter quicker.

Imp Stings is generally not seen as useful for raids since Stings are a flat damage increase, can not crit and do not scale with RAP. Serpent Sting(Rank 10) is 660 damage for 275 mana. With Imp Stings, that becomes 858 damage (660 * 1.3). That's 5 talent points for 198 damage or 5 talent points for 13.2 dps (198 / 15) increase.

Concussive Barrage is pretty bad. You only have 6% chance to daze a target off of Auto Shots. To make the math simple, with a quiver adjusted weapon speed of 2.5 seconds, on average, it would take 41.7 seconds to trigger a daze ((100/6) * 2.5). Dazes add 175 damage to Steady Shot. So that becomes 4.2 dps (175 / 41.7) increase on average for a 3 point investment.

Combat Experience is pretty bad, in my opinion. Have done the math before but it comes down to personal preference. Some like this talent, some do not.

Slaying talents may or may not be helpful, depending on the raid location. When they work, they add 3% more damage per hit or 6% more damage on crits. Over time, this adds up. As a percentage increase, it improves as our damage increases.

Efficiency helps since boss fights are so long. This talent along with down ranking can help keep you going longer for more damage output.

Imp Hunters Mark is a nice talent. It helps pets, rogues and warrior dps. End game raid fights currently are not rogue friendly so this talents usefulness in end game raids is questionable in my opinion.
#13 Apr 02 2007 at 10:17 PM Rating: Decent
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149 posts
Thank you CheyenneGoldenleaf for giveing reasons around different tallents. I have one more question before I post my next potential build. What do you guys think of Improved Concussive Shot? Back before the 2.0 patch I was MM for leveling and I got this right away and it allways proc when I needed it the most. I mean, 1 in 5 shots is not bad odds to stop a spell from going off, unless most mobs and bosses in end-game dont get hit by stun at all. If that's the case then I think I will drop it for Efficiency.

About Imp stings. I think when it comes down to it, Imp stings is a better dps increase then Mortal Shots if I'm doing my math correctly.

Thanks,
Ifandbut
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