It has been mentioned before, and myself have noticed, that the general majority of guides and threads in the Allakhazam Mage Forum is written from a PvE (Player vs Environment) point of view. As such, I thought it would be of interest and benefit to discuss mage talents (a topic which frequents this forum) exclusively from a PvP (Player vs Player) point of view.
This post will be split into the following sections:
1. POPULAR ARCHTYPES: Common/Popular PvP talent builds
2. THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX: Unconventional builds used by top mages
3. TALENTS IN PRACTICE: Tweaked versions of common builds used by top mages
This thread discusses a number of talent builds being used by mages on the top ranked 5v5 Arena teams according to Blizzard's Armory site. As such, please keep in mind that the talent builds will be discussed in the context of 5v5 Arena PvP combat.
I would like to add 3v3 and 2v2 builds to this thread in the future -- time permitting -- and periodically update it according to rankings on Armory as Arena PvP matures.
It is important to point out that Battleground PvP is quite different from Arena PvP and as such, there may be some builds that excel in one but not the other. However, at this time this thread will consider only Arena PvP because of its structured and objective ranking system and the ease of obtaining data through Armory.
The mages I selected for examples in this discussion are generally from teams with 2000+ rating that are ranked in the top 3 for their respective battlegroups. There may be some exceptions if I come across a particulary interesting talent build that is "outside of the box". Please note that the stats and builds are snapshots and will of course become out-of-date but I will try to make periodic updates.
As always, please help myself and others by providing constructive criticism and pointing out any mistakes I may have made. Thank you :D
UPDATE (Apr 04, 2007)
- Fixed mistake in base mana calculation for Improved Blink example
- Added Deep Fire example in "Thinking Outside the Box"
- Added individual dates on which builds and stats were obtained
- Edited and added to discussion of 33/0/28 and 17/0/44 archtype builds
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 2:44pm by echou
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- Guide: Arena PvP Talent Builds
Guide: Arena PvP Talent BuildsFollow
POPULAR ARCHTYPES
This section gives a description and general example of common and popular talent builds used in PvP. For specific examples and variations used by top Arena mages, please look further down in the section titled, "Talents In Practice".
33/0/28 AP Frost
This build has become increasingly popular among mages in 5v5 Arena PvP and for good reason. The build provides an great balance between power and survivability. This is highly desirable in Arena PvP where the consistency of your performance ultimately determines your overall ranking. As such, many mages will choose a balanced build which is good in all situations, no matter what the opposing team's class matrix, as opposed to a build which is great in certain matches but falls flat in others.
Despite the many variations of this spec, the core of the build is built around Arcane Power, Ice Block, and Cold Snap. Ice Block and Cold Snap are pretty much self-explanatory; providing much needed survival against focus fire and debuffs in 5v5 Arena. On the flip-side, Arcane Power is a strong tool to burst down a single target that your team is focus firing.
Mages in a tri-healer matrix will lean towards this build because such teams will have a greater dependency on the mage's damage output. Teams running a two-healer matrix may benefit more from the build we discuss next...
17/0/44 Water Elemental Frost
This build trades some raw power for control, control, and more control. It has every core ability available in the Frost tree -- Ice Block, Cold Snap, Shatter, Ice Barrier, and Water Elemental -- along with 17 points in the Arcane tree to get Improved Counterspell. With Cold Snap, it is possible for a mage to freeze opponents four times back-to-back (Frost Nova --> Freeze --> Cold Snap --> Frost Nova --> Freeze) by refreshing his/her Water Elemental and Frost Nova spell. The Water Elemental is also controllable while the mage is encased in an Ice Block so you can still setup freezes and do some damage while immune.
Mages using this archtype may pickup the Permafrost and Improved Blizzard talents to further bolster their crowd control ability. These two talents turn Rank 1 Blizzard into a low cost snare that is highly effective against melee opponents.
Most (if not all) 5v5 Arena teams will have a Warrior for the Mortal Strike debuff and possibly a Rogue for Wounding Poison, both of which are used to limit the healing done by opposing teams; otherwise it would be very difficult to focus-fire and kill your target. With Permafrost and Improved Blizzard, a mage can keep the opposing team's Warrior snared, forcing either the Warrior or his team mate(s) to turn their attention on the mage; who is very tough to kill having Ice Barrier, double Frost Nova, double Water Elemental, and double Ice Block. Meanwhile, your own team mates are free to do their jobs :D
40/0/21 Arcane Frost
This build has the burst power of a deep Arcane build with some core survivability from Ice Block and Cold Snap. The main difference between this build and 33/0/28 is 5/5 Mind Mastery. A typical level 70 mage will have between 400 and 500 Intellect. Thus, you would gain approximately 100 to 125 spell damage from 5/5 Mind Mastery. This is a nice bonus, but the 21 point limit on the Frost tree means that you will have to give up some key talents like Frostbite, Arctic Reach, and/or Piercing Ice, etc. For this reason, many PvP mages appear to be moving away from 40/0/21 to 33/0/28.
40/21/0 Arcane Fire
This build is not widely used in 5v5 Arena PvP but is worth noting here as a possible archtype. This build is all about raw power. The combination of Presence of Mind, Arcane Power, and Pyroblast (along with trinkets) allows for huge burst damage every 3 minutes. However, this build is weak in survivability and does not have many options after the previous combo has been "popped". For this reason, it tends to underperform in 5v5 Arena combat where it is entirely possible that your big burst of damage will fail to kill your target. And even if it is successful, you still need to help your team take out the other 4 members of the opposing team. While not a bad build, it is notably more powerful in Battlegrounds than in Arena PvP.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 7:56pm by echou
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 2:43pm by echou
This section gives a description and general example of common and popular talent builds used in PvP. For specific examples and variations used by top Arena mages, please look further down in the section titled, "Talents In Practice".
33/0/28 AP Frost
This build has become increasingly popular among mages in 5v5 Arena PvP and for good reason. The build provides an great balance between power and survivability. This is highly desirable in Arena PvP where the consistency of your performance ultimately determines your overall ranking. As such, many mages will choose a balanced build which is good in all situations, no matter what the opposing team's class matrix, as opposed to a build which is great in certain matches but falls flat in others.
Despite the many variations of this spec, the core of the build is built around Arcane Power, Ice Block, and Cold Snap. Ice Block and Cold Snap are pretty much self-explanatory; providing much needed survival against focus fire and debuffs in 5v5 Arena. On the flip-side, Arcane Power is a strong tool to burst down a single target that your team is focus firing.
Mages in a tri-healer matrix will lean towards this build because such teams will have a greater dependency on the mage's damage output. Teams running a two-healer matrix may benefit more from the build we discuss next...
17/0/44 Water Elemental Frost
This build trades some raw power for control, control, and more control. It has every core ability available in the Frost tree -- Ice Block, Cold Snap, Shatter, Ice Barrier, and Water Elemental -- along with 17 points in the Arcane tree to get Improved Counterspell. With Cold Snap, it is possible for a mage to freeze opponents four times back-to-back (Frost Nova --> Freeze --> Cold Snap --> Frost Nova --> Freeze) by refreshing his/her Water Elemental and Frost Nova spell. The Water Elemental is also controllable while the mage is encased in an Ice Block so you can still setup freezes and do some damage while immune.
Mages using this archtype may pickup the Permafrost and Improved Blizzard talents to further bolster their crowd control ability. These two talents turn Rank 1 Blizzard into a low cost snare that is highly effective against melee opponents.
Most (if not all) 5v5 Arena teams will have a Warrior for the Mortal Strike debuff and possibly a Rogue for Wounding Poison, both of which are used to limit the healing done by opposing teams; otherwise it would be very difficult to focus-fire and kill your target. With Permafrost and Improved Blizzard, a mage can keep the opposing team's Warrior snared, forcing either the Warrior or his team mate(s) to turn their attention on the mage; who is very tough to kill having Ice Barrier, double Frost Nova, double Water Elemental, and double Ice Block. Meanwhile, your own team mates are free to do their jobs :D
40/0/21 Arcane Frost
This build has the burst power of a deep Arcane build with some core survivability from Ice Block and Cold Snap. The main difference between this build and 33/0/28 is 5/5 Mind Mastery. A typical level 70 mage will have between 400 and 500 Intellect. Thus, you would gain approximately 100 to 125 spell damage from 5/5 Mind Mastery. This is a nice bonus, but the 21 point limit on the Frost tree means that you will have to give up some key talents like Frostbite, Arctic Reach, and/or Piercing Ice, etc. For this reason, many PvP mages appear to be moving away from 40/0/21 to 33/0/28.
40/21/0 Arcane Fire
This build is not widely used in 5v5 Arena PvP but is worth noting here as a possible archtype. This build is all about raw power. The combination of Presence of Mind, Arcane Power, and Pyroblast (along with trinkets) allows for huge burst damage every 3 minutes. However, this build is weak in survivability and does not have many options after the previous combo has been "popped". For this reason, it tends to underperform in 5v5 Arena combat where it is entirely possible that your big burst of damage will fail to kill your target. And even if it is successful, you still need to help your team take out the other 4 members of the opposing team. While not a bad build, it is notably more powerful in Battlegrounds than in Arena PvP.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 7:56pm by echou
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 2:43pm by echou
THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX
In this section, we will look at some top mages using more unconventional builds.
0/36/25 Elementalist (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Mageical
Realm: Ursin
Armory URL: armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ursin&n=Mageical]character sheet
Battlegroup: Shadowburn
5v5 Team: PiE
Team Rating: 2208
Team Rank: 2nd
8263 HP
8546 MP
766 Spell Damage
18.26% Spell Crit
138 Resilience (-3.5% crit, -7% crit dmg)
0/36/25 Elementalist
The Elementalist build has always been a matter of interest (and debate) amongst mages. It is very refreshing to see such a build making its mark in high-end structured PvP. At its heart, an Elementalist build is a Scorch build using the namesake spell as the primary "nuke" for quick casting and the Fire Vulnerability debuff. Combined with instant cast spells (Fire Blast, Cone of Cold, and Blastwave) and a high spell critical rating, this build deals the bulk of its damage in the form of fast and furiously casted spells with their criticals resulting in Ignite DoT's. One of the Elementalist's strongest tools is Blastwave coupled with Shatter, allowing for large spell criticals against multiple frozen targets plus the subsequent DoT damage. With Cold Snap, it is possible to setup combos multiple times in a single battle. The availability of Ice Block also adds survivability to the build. The Elementalist draws much of his/her strength from having the "right spell at the right time" and requires quick-thinking as well as quick fingers.
0/0/61 Pure Frost (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Zenturil
Realm: Lightning's Blade
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Vindication
5v5 Team: Clan HeX
Team Rating: 2423
Team Rank: 1st
8503 HP
7856 MP
753 Spell Damage
17.28% Spell Crit
221 Resilience (-5.61% crit, -11.21% crit dmg)
Many level 60 mages (myself included) used pure Frost builds prior to Burning Crusade due to the limited options in the other talent trees once 41 points were spent in Frost for the Water Elemental. With 10 extra talent points at level 70, many mages have moved away from pure Frost to 17/0/44 in order to get Improved Counterspell.
In 5v5 Arena PvP, it's highly likely that a mage will save his/her Counterspell for a healer on the opposing team in order to lockout their healing school of magic for 10 seconds. This is particularly effective against Paladins (arguably the best Arena healers) whose spells are all Holy based. Good healers will have various tactics to avoid or workaround a mage's Counterspell, so the Improved version gives us a buffer (4 second silence) in the event the Counterspell doesn't land on the intended spell.
The pure Frost mage has in essence given up Improved Counterspell for full points in Elemental Precision, Permafrost, Improved Blizzard, Frost Channeling, and Winter's Chill; some or all of which would not be present in a general 17/0/44 build. In my opinion, of the listed talents, only Permafrost coupled with Improved Blizzard make a noticeable difference in Arena combat; the ability to significantly slow multiple opponents while damaging them.
Whether or not giving up Improved Counterspell is worth it depends on each mage's playstyle and preferences. Ultimately, your own PvP experience will dictate how you tweak your build one way or the other.
10/48/3 Deep Fire (PvE?) (Apr 04, 2007) used by...
Name: Sylvaniel
Realm: Gurubashi
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Reckoning
5v5 Team: Pro Up
Team Rating: 2467
Team Rank: 2nd
8983 HP
8051 MP
715 Spell Damage
14.5% Spell Crit
192 Resilience (-4.87% crit, -9.74% crit dmg)
Sylvaniel's build first caught my eye because it is somewhat rare to see a Deep Fire build in 5v5 Arena PvP. It surprised me yet again when I saw that it appears to be a PvE build; foregoing certain PvP talents for Arcane Concentration, Master of Elements, and Elemental Precision. Unless he has recently changed specs, it seems that this PvE build is still capable of performing in high-end Arena 5v5 combat as shown by his team's performance in which he has played 483 of their total 505 matches.
Since the build is in essence a PvE build, there isn't much to be said in regards to PvP specific choices. I felt it was important to note that PvE builds can be successful in PvP in the hands of a skilled mage.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 7:57pm by echou
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 12:22pm by echou
In this section, we will look at some top mages using more unconventional builds.
0/36/25 Elementalist (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Mageical
Realm: Ursin
Armory URL: armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ursin&n=Mageical]character sheet
Battlegroup: Shadowburn
5v5 Team: PiE
Team Rating: 2208
Team Rank: 2nd
8263 HP
8546 MP
766 Spell Damage
18.26% Spell Crit
138 Resilience (-3.5% crit, -7% crit dmg)
0/36/25 Elementalist
The Elementalist build has always been a matter of interest (and debate) amongst mages. It is very refreshing to see such a build making its mark in high-end structured PvP. At its heart, an Elementalist build is a Scorch build using the namesake spell as the primary "nuke" for quick casting and the Fire Vulnerability debuff. Combined with instant cast spells (Fire Blast, Cone of Cold, and Blastwave) and a high spell critical rating, this build deals the bulk of its damage in the form of fast and furiously casted spells with their criticals resulting in Ignite DoT's. One of the Elementalist's strongest tools is Blastwave coupled with Shatter, allowing for large spell criticals against multiple frozen targets plus the subsequent DoT damage. With Cold Snap, it is possible to setup combos multiple times in a single battle. The availability of Ice Block also adds survivability to the build. The Elementalist draws much of his/her strength from having the "right spell at the right time" and requires quick-thinking as well as quick fingers.
0/0/61 Pure Frost (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Zenturil
Realm: Lightning's Blade
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Vindication
5v5 Team: Clan HeX
Team Rating: 2423
Team Rank: 1st
8503 HP
7856 MP
753 Spell Damage
17.28% Spell Crit
221 Resilience (-5.61% crit, -11.21% crit dmg)
Many level 60 mages (myself included) used pure Frost builds prior to Burning Crusade due to the limited options in the other talent trees once 41 points were spent in Frost for the Water Elemental. With 10 extra talent points at level 70, many mages have moved away from pure Frost to 17/0/44 in order to get Improved Counterspell.
In 5v5 Arena PvP, it's highly likely that a mage will save his/her Counterspell for a healer on the opposing team in order to lockout their healing school of magic for 10 seconds. This is particularly effective against Paladins (arguably the best Arena healers) whose spells are all Holy based. Good healers will have various tactics to avoid or workaround a mage's Counterspell, so the Improved version gives us a buffer (4 second silence) in the event the Counterspell doesn't land on the intended spell.
The pure Frost mage has in essence given up Improved Counterspell for full points in Elemental Precision, Permafrost, Improved Blizzard, Frost Channeling, and Winter's Chill; some or all of which would not be present in a general 17/0/44 build. In my opinion, of the listed talents, only Permafrost coupled with Improved Blizzard make a noticeable difference in Arena combat; the ability to significantly slow multiple opponents while damaging them.
Whether or not giving up Improved Counterspell is worth it depends on each mage's playstyle and preferences. Ultimately, your own PvP experience will dictate how you tweak your build one way or the other.
10/48/3 Deep Fire (PvE?) (Apr 04, 2007) used by...
Name: Sylvaniel
Realm: Gurubashi
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Reckoning
5v5 Team: Pro Up
Team Rating: 2467
Team Rank: 2nd
8983 HP
8051 MP
715 Spell Damage
14.5% Spell Crit
192 Resilience (-4.87% crit, -9.74% crit dmg)
Sylvaniel's build first caught my eye because it is somewhat rare to see a Deep Fire build in 5v5 Arena PvP. It surprised me yet again when I saw that it appears to be a PvE build; foregoing certain PvP talents for Arcane Concentration, Master of Elements, and Elemental Precision. Unless he has recently changed specs, it seems that this PvE build is still capable of performing in high-end Arena 5v5 combat as shown by his team's performance in which he has played 483 of their total 505 matches.
Since the build is in essence a PvE build, there isn't much to be said in regards to PvP specific choices. I felt it was important to note that PvE builds can be successful in PvP in the hands of a skilled mage.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 7:57pm by echou
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 12:22pm by echou
TALENTS IN PRACTICE
In this section, we will look at some top arena mages and their tweaked versions of popular builds.
33/0/28 AP Frost (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Ecilam
Realm: Tichondrius
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Bloodlust
5v5 Team: Power Trip
Team Rating: 2477
Team Rank: 1st
9333 HP
7826 MP
706 Spell Damage (763 Frost)
17.36% Spell Crit
276 Resilience (-7% crit, -14% crit dmg)
Exact build also used by...
Name: Ohnoes
Realm: Smolderthorn
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Reckoning
5v5 Team: Portable Hotdog Steamers
Team Rating: 2407
Team Rank: 1st
9203 HP
8381 MP
755 Spell Damage
19.04% Spell Crit
229 Resilience (-5.81% crit, -11.62% crit dmg)
There are a number of talent choices which I thought were particularly interesting:
Improved Blink vs Arcane Mind
After getting Presence of Mind, you require 4 additional talent points to open the next tier of Arcane talents. Personally, I have always considered 4 points in Arcane Mind better than a 2/2 split between Arcane Mind and Improved Blink. While planning my own spec for level 70 PvP, I never once thought of speccing Improved Blink but seeing both these top mages speccing this way made me revisit the math behind these talents and I found that I was led astray by my own PvE tendencies.
Blink costs 28% of a mage's base mana. 2/2 Improved Blink will reduce that to 14%.
Two points in Arcane Mind will increase your Intellect by 6%.
Now let's compare using Ecilam's stats from Armory (please correct any mistakes I may have made)...
+6% Intellect = 391 * 0.06 = 23.46 --> 235 mana
We see in this example, that the mana savings from 2/2 Improved Blink is greater than 2 extra points in Arcane Mind even if you only use Blink one time in a fight. In PvP, you can expect to cast Blink many times and often. The extra Intellect does add to your spell critical rating, but the difference is small and hardly noticeable. So the clear choice for PvP is indeed Improved Blink.
Prismatic Cloak vs Arcane Potency
Arcane Potency is the clear choice in PvE as mages will often be in the backlines away from any direct damage. But from a purely PvP perspective, it becomes more complicated.
Because the boost in spell critical chance granted by Arcane Potency depends on a spell being Clearcasted makes it difficult to gauge its actual benefit in practice. Whereas the damage reduction from Prismatic Cloak is constant. The way I look at it (which may or may not be accurate) is to approximate the actual benefit from 2 points in Arcane Potency being +20% spell critical chance 10% of the time; that is a static +2% spell critical chance. In this simplifiied view, you can then try to decide whether you want 4% reduction in damage taken or 2% spell critical chance.
I suspect that the constant nature of Prismatic Cloak's benefit makes it better in practice, and I also yield to the wisdom of Ecilam and Ohnoes whose knowledge of PvP vastly outweighs my own.
Frostbite vs Piercing Ice / Improved Cone of Cold / Winter's Chill
After the nerf to spell criticals against frozen targets (the freeze effect will now break immediately after the first spell critical against the frozen target) there have been PvP mages who have dropped the Frostbite and Shatter talents altogether. Personally, I still feel that they are both good talents for PvP so it did not surprise me to see Frostbite and Shatter in many top mages' talent build. However, it did surprise me that there were zero points in the Piercing Ice talent in both Ecilam and Ohnoes' spec.
It is basically a choice between 3/3 Improved Cone of Cold or 3/3 Piercing Ice. In general (and again, I suspect my PvE sensibilities is getting the better of me), I would have to say that 6% increased damage to all Frost spells would be better than 35% increased damage on a single spell. However, Cone of Cold's ability to hit and crit against multiple opponents makes it a very powerful spell in 5v5 Arena; especially when paired with Shatter. Perhaps this is why these two top mages have chosen it over Piercing Ice.
While Improved Cone of Cold may be arguably better than Piercing Ice for Arena PvP, the single point put into Winter's Chill did not make much sense to me. At first glance, I thought it obvious that the 2% increased damage on all Frost spells from 1/3 Piercing Ice would be better than a single point in Winter's Chill. But then I remembered reading that Winter's Chill can be used to help "bury" an opponent in debuffs, thus making it harder to cleanse the debuffs that you want to stay on them. It is my guess that the single point in Winter's Chill may be for this specific strategy. Whether or not it is worth it, is up to each mage's preference.
17/0/44 Water Elemental Frost (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Futility
Realm: Kel'Thuzad
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Nightfall
5v5 Team: C A P S L O C K C R E W
Team Rating: 2287
Team Rank: 1st
9723 HP
7511 MP
626 Spell Damage
13.69% Spell Crit
250 Resilience (-6.34% crit, -12.68% crit dmg)
There are two places that surprised me in this build. Firstly, taking 2/2 Magic Attunement over 2/2 Arcane Subtlety. Granted that Arcane Subtlety is more of a PvE talent, the lowered chance of opponents resisting spells can only help and not harm you. Whereas, Amplify/Dampen Magic can do significant harm to you and your team mates if not used appropriately. I assume that the aim is to increase healing received using Amplify Magic, but at the risk of taking increased magical damage. Similarly, Dampen Magic can decrease magic damage taken at the risk of receiving less healing from your team's healer(s). Personally, I would avoid the micro-management of Amplify/Dampen Magic and stick with Arcane Subtlety, but for mages who are better skilled than I, they may find greater benefit in Magic Attunement.
The second talent choice that surprised me was 2/2 Frost Warding. This talent is non-standard in most builds -- both PvP and PvE -- yet it has been taken here at the cost of 1 less point in Piercing Ice and Improved Cone of Cold. My guess is that the 20% chance to reflect Frost spells may serve as an extra edge against other Frost mages. Whether or not it is worth it depends on the mage, and his/her regular opponents. Only personal experience can guide you when making tweaks to your talent build.
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 12:26pm by echou
In this section, we will look at some top arena mages and their tweaked versions of popular builds.
33/0/28 AP Frost (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Ecilam
Realm: Tichondrius
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Bloodlust
5v5 Team: Power Trip
Team Rating: 2477
Team Rank: 1st
9333 HP
7826 MP
706 Spell Damage (763 Frost)
17.36% Spell Crit
276 Resilience (-7% crit, -14% crit dmg)
Exact build also used by...
Name: Ohnoes
Realm: Smolderthorn
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Reckoning
5v5 Team: Portable Hotdog Steamers
Team Rating: 2407
Team Rank: 1st
9203 HP
8381 MP
755 Spell Damage
19.04% Spell Crit
229 Resilience (-5.81% crit, -11.62% crit dmg)
There are a number of talent choices which I thought were particularly interesting:
Improved Blink vs Arcane Mind
After getting Presence of Mind, you require 4 additional talent points to open the next tier of Arcane talents. Personally, I have always considered 4 points in Arcane Mind better than a 2/2 split between Arcane Mind and Improved Blink. While planning my own spec for level 70 PvP, I never once thought of speccing Improved Blink but seeing both these top mages speccing this way made me revisit the math behind these talents and I found that I was led astray by my own PvE tendencies.
Blink costs 28% of a mage's base mana. 2/2 Improved Blink will reduce that to 14%.
Two points in Arcane Mind will increase your Intellect by 6%.
Now let's compare using Ecilam's stats from Armory (please correct any mistakes I may have made)...
angelback wrote:
For the example you gave base mana is 7826 - 5585 (all the intellect-provided mana) = 2241 (funny that's the same as me because all mages have a fixed ammount of mana / level so the BASE mana for all 70 mages is identical)
28% of 2241 = 627
Talented blink = 313
28% of 2241 = 627
Talented blink = 313
+6% Intellect = 391 * 0.06 = 23.46 --> 235 mana
We see in this example, that the mana savings from 2/2 Improved Blink is greater than 2 extra points in Arcane Mind even if you only use Blink one time in a fight. In PvP, you can expect to cast Blink many times and often. The extra Intellect does add to your spell critical rating, but the difference is small and hardly noticeable. So the clear choice for PvP is indeed Improved Blink.
Prismatic Cloak vs Arcane Potency
Arcane Potency is the clear choice in PvE as mages will often be in the backlines away from any direct damage. But from a purely PvP perspective, it becomes more complicated.
Because the boost in spell critical chance granted by Arcane Potency depends on a spell being Clearcasted makes it difficult to gauge its actual benefit in practice. Whereas the damage reduction from Prismatic Cloak is constant. The way I look at it (which may or may not be accurate) is to approximate the actual benefit from 2 points in Arcane Potency being +20% spell critical chance 10% of the time; that is a static +2% spell critical chance. In this simplifiied view, you can then try to decide whether you want 4% reduction in damage taken or 2% spell critical chance.
I suspect that the constant nature of Prismatic Cloak's benefit makes it better in practice, and I also yield to the wisdom of Ecilam and Ohnoes whose knowledge of PvP vastly outweighs my own.
Frostbite vs Piercing Ice / Improved Cone of Cold / Winter's Chill
After the nerf to spell criticals against frozen targets (the freeze effect will now break immediately after the first spell critical against the frozen target) there have been PvP mages who have dropped the Frostbite and Shatter talents altogether. Personally, I still feel that they are both good talents for PvP so it did not surprise me to see Frostbite and Shatter in many top mages' talent build. However, it did surprise me that there were zero points in the Piercing Ice talent in both Ecilam and Ohnoes' spec.
It is basically a choice between 3/3 Improved Cone of Cold or 3/3 Piercing Ice. In general (and again, I suspect my PvE sensibilities is getting the better of me), I would have to say that 6% increased damage to all Frost spells would be better than 35% increased damage on a single spell. However, Cone of Cold's ability to hit and crit against multiple opponents makes it a very powerful spell in 5v5 Arena; especially when paired with Shatter. Perhaps this is why these two top mages have chosen it over Piercing Ice.
While Improved Cone of Cold may be arguably better than Piercing Ice for Arena PvP, the single point put into Winter's Chill did not make much sense to me. At first glance, I thought it obvious that the 2% increased damage on all Frost spells from 1/3 Piercing Ice would be better than a single point in Winter's Chill. But then I remembered reading that Winter's Chill can be used to help "bury" an opponent in debuffs, thus making it harder to cleanse the debuffs that you want to stay on them. It is my guess that the single point in Winter's Chill may be for this specific strategy. Whether or not it is worth it, is up to each mage's preference.
17/0/44 Water Elemental Frost (Mar 30, 2007) used by...
Name: Futility
Realm: Kel'Thuzad
Armory URL: character sheet
Battlegroup: Nightfall
5v5 Team: C A P S L O C K C R E W
Team Rating: 2287
Team Rank: 1st
9723 HP
7511 MP
626 Spell Damage
13.69% Spell Crit
250 Resilience (-6.34% crit, -12.68% crit dmg)
There are two places that surprised me in this build. Firstly, taking 2/2 Magic Attunement over 2/2 Arcane Subtlety. Granted that Arcane Subtlety is more of a PvE talent, the lowered chance of opponents resisting spells can only help and not harm you. Whereas, Amplify/Dampen Magic can do significant harm to you and your team mates if not used appropriately. I assume that the aim is to increase healing received using Amplify Magic, but at the risk of taking increased magical damage. Similarly, Dampen Magic can decrease magic damage taken at the risk of receiving less healing from your team's healer(s). Personally, I would avoid the micro-management of Amplify/Dampen Magic and stick with Arcane Subtlety, but for mages who are better skilled than I, they may find greater benefit in Magic Attunement.
The second talent choice that surprised me was 2/2 Frost Warding. This talent is non-standard in most builds -- both PvP and PvE -- yet it has been taken here at the cost of 1 less point in Piercing Ice and Improved Cone of Cold. My guess is that the 20% chance to reflect Frost spells may serve as an extra edge against other Frost mages. Whether or not it is worth it depends on the mage, and his/her regular opponents. Only personal experience can guide you when making tweaks to your talent build.
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 12:26pm by echou
Quote:
Blink costs 28% of a mage's base mana. 2/2 Improved Blink will reduce that to 14%.
Total mana = 7826
Total intellect = 391
Base mana = 7826 - (391 * 10) = 3916
Untalented Blink cost = 1097 mana
Talented Blink cost = 549 mana
Total mana = 7826
Total intellect = 391
Base mana = 7826 - (391 * 10) = 3916
Untalented Blink cost = 1097 mana
Talented Blink cost = 549 mana
For the example you gave base mana is 7826 - 5585 (all the intellect-provided mana) = 2241 (funny that's the same as me because all mages have a fixed ammount of mana / level so the BASE mana for all 70 mages is identical)
28% of 2241 = 627
Talented blink = 313
Another thing is that 6% INTELLECT also adds to your +crit and that's also nice.
Edited, Apr 3rd 2007 9:08pm by angelblack
angelblack wrote:
Quote:
Blink costs 28% of a mage's base mana. 2/2 Improved Blink will reduce that to 14%.
Total mana = 7826
Total intellect = 391
Base mana = 7826 - (391 * 10) = 3916
Untalented Blink cost = 1097 mana
Talented Blink cost = 549 mana
Total mana = 7826
Total intellect = 391
Base mana = 7826 - (391 * 10) = 3916
Untalented Blink cost = 1097 mana
Talented Blink cost = 549 mana
For the example you gave base mana is 7826 - 5585 (all the intellect-provided mana) = 2241 (funny that's the same as me because all mages have a fixed ammount of mana / level so the BASE mana for all 70 mages is identical)
28% of 2241 = 627
Talented blink = 313
Another thing is that 6% INTELLECT also adds to your +crit and that's also nice.
Fixed. Thank you Angelback for pointing out my mistake.
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