I wish to stay a BM spec hunter at lv 70, and am wondering if this build is decent for solo, raiding, and pvp
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0520300152501225013515550201000000000000000000000000000000000000
for solo, I want "tankability" for pet, for raiding I want some pet dps(if he's out in raids) and some crit chance and aimed shot from MM, and for pvp, I want critical strikes,a strong pet, a chance to stun with concuss, and aimed shot for that unsuspecting mage, please tell me any tweaks that could make this build better.
any help is appreciated.
Edited, Apr 3rd 2007 11:50am by FFGamer
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Unless you're very good on your pet commands, you're not going to be able to raid as BM. I don't know if Shatter effects pets, but if it does, you're going to get someone owned. Between cleaes, AoEs, and the intensive nature of boss fights in Karazhan and beyond, I very much doubt that a BM Hunter will be better than speccing MM or SV.
ok,thanks for the response, guess once I hit 70, I'll try it in a raid, and see how good/bad it works,and then think about respeccing,
thanks for your help
thanks for your help
BM isnt good for raiding.
and it will probably never be unless pets get such a huuuuuuuge buff that the whole world (non wow players included) will cry for a nerf.
Dump bestial swiftness, wasted talent point since a lot of pets already have dash/dive/charge.
Imp. Mend pet is not close to as good as Imp. Revive pet.
i'd rather be able to ress my pet in combat with half health instead of maybe removing curse/poison.
spirit bond is a really nice ability, and helped me out a large number of fights.
Catlike reflexes... whuuu dodge... nothing good for raid, party or PvP.
Not great for solo.
Ferocious Inspiration is a lot better, your pet attacks fater and has a higher crit chance then normal pets, so the buff procs rather often (especially with the speed buff it gives itself after a crit) and in the long fights in dungeons it helps out nicely.
Imp. concussive < hawk eye, effeciency, imp. arcane, rapid killing or monster/humanoid slaying (especially the last 1 for pvp)
and imp. mark doesnt help a lot in PvP/solo either, but is great in grouping.
edit: a raiding guild probably wont let you try BM out in a raid. they will ask/demand you to respec.
Edited, Apr 3rd 2007 7:03pm by Aethien
and it will probably never be unless pets get such a huuuuuuuge buff that the whole world (non wow players included) will cry for a nerf.
Dump bestial swiftness, wasted talent point since a lot of pets already have dash/dive/charge.
Imp. Mend pet is not close to as good as Imp. Revive pet.
i'd rather be able to ress my pet in combat with half health instead of maybe removing curse/poison.
spirit bond is a really nice ability, and helped me out a large number of fights.
Catlike reflexes... whuuu dodge... nothing good for raid, party or PvP.
Not great for solo.
Ferocious Inspiration is a lot better, your pet attacks fater and has a higher crit chance then normal pets, so the buff procs rather often (especially with the speed buff it gives itself after a crit) and in the long fights in dungeons it helps out nicely.
Imp. concussive < hawk eye, effeciency, imp. arcane, rapid killing or monster/humanoid slaying (especially the last 1 for pvp)
and imp. mark doesnt help a lot in PvP/solo either, but is great in grouping.
edit: a raiding guild probably wont let you try BM out in a raid. they will ask/demand you to respec.
Edited, Apr 3rd 2007 7:03pm by Aethien
Quote:
BM isnt good for raiding.
and it will probably never be unless pets get such a huuuuuuuge buff that the whole world (non wow players included) will cry for a nerf.
Dump bestial swiftness, wasted talent point since a lot of pets already have dash/dive/charge.
Imp. Mend pet is not close to as good as Imp. Revive pet.
i'd rather be able to ress my pet in combat with half health instead of maybe removing curse/poison.
spirit bond is a really nice ability, and helped me out a large number of fights.
Catlike reflexes... whuuu dodge... nothing good for raid, party or PvP.
Not great for solo.
Imp. concussive < hawk eye, effeciency, imp. arcane, rapid killing or monster/humanoid slaying (especially the last 1 for pvp)
and imp. mark doesnt help a lot in PvP/solo either, but is great in grouping.
and it will probably never be unless pets get such a huuuuuuuge buff that the whole world (non wow players included) will cry for a nerf.
Dump bestial swiftness, wasted talent point since a lot of pets already have dash/dive/charge.
Imp. Mend pet is not close to as good as Imp. Revive pet.
i'd rather be able to ress my pet in combat with half health instead of maybe removing curse/poison.
spirit bond is a really nice ability, and helped me out a large number of fights.
Catlike reflexes... whuuu dodge... nothing good for raid, party or PvP.
Not great for solo.
Imp. concussive < hawk eye, effeciency, imp. arcane, rapid killing or monster/humanoid slaying (especially the last 1 for pvp)
and imp. mark doesnt help a lot in PvP/solo either, but is great in grouping.
Aethin, this isn't meant as a flame but that was the most misleading post I have ever read on the hunter furoms. I quoted most of your response exept 1 part which was true. Imp. Mend pet is MUCH better than Imp. Revive pet in PvP and PvE. In PvP, you won't heal your pet because it won't be attacked often, BUT warlock DoTs, stuns, CC, etc is often used on your pet, and by using rank 1 Mend pet will remove most of this. Also, Pvp, since your pet won't take much damage will you need to revive it? No, not usally.
Spirit Bond, end game=no. Pvp=not too good. Solo paly=so-so. But the regain isn't too much and you are better off using those talents elsewhere.
Catlike reflexes, not great for solo? Dude! 9% chance to dodge is a HUGE difference in solo, since you won't take ANY damage, you must be out of your mind to say it is not great for solo? And in raids when your pet offtanks, its the same. But your pet probaly won't offtank often, but these situations happen.
Imp. Concussive is awesome in PvP when kiting, and when kiting in PvE it's amazing too, but you say Imp. Arcane is better? HAHAHAHA! Overall, Imp. Conc is very nice.
Imp. Mark doesn't help in PvP/solo? In groups you're right, it does help. Both in group PvE and group PvP. And in 1vs1 PvP and Solo? It's awesome too, your mark increases PET DAMAGE, which is godly in PvE, and very nice when your pet is biting at the heels of your attacker in PvP.
BM, while not being the best raiding tree, is still good for raiding, ask Sayis, he has much more experience than I do. You're build is pretty good all around and I'll try not to change the talents too much.
Ok, Aimed shot is good for PvP. But in solo/group play, Steady Shot is much better for DPS and mana-usage. So try not to use it in PvE, only PvP.
Now, I would take two points out of Focused Fire and one point out of Imp. Concussive shot and put those three into Ferocious Inspiration, since it is a great all-around talent and godly for grouping.
Nice all-around build while still being good for raiding/solo/PvP. And Aethien, not trying to flame you but that post was very misleading.
Maybe... this. I'd go in for more BM, of course, and I don't use MM, but this is for you, not me.
Now, to address the previous posts:
Beast Mastery is excellent in 5-10 man settings, still good in 15-20. Higher raids, however, give pets a very difficult time surviving.
Bestial Swiftness is a good talent to have, but unnecessary for raiding.
Improved Mend Pet and Improved Revive Pet are both great talents to have. If you're only going to get one, get Improved Revive -- this makes mid-combat reviving feasible and workable, and that can sometimes be the difference between saving the healer or wiping the raid.
Spirit Bond doesn't have good returns for the investment. You can safely bypass this talent.
Catlike Reflexes is an excellent talent to have, especially for any situation in which your pet is needed to off-tank. 9% dodge is nothing shabby, and 3% dodge on yourself is a nice bonus. The longer your pet lives, the longer it can protect the squishies. This talent is wonderful for solo, because that's an extra 9% that your pet is not being hit, which more or less means 9% less damage for you to heal.
Although I disagree on Aethien's breakdown, I wouldn't take Improved Concussive for a hybrid build. If you're going to raid, solo, and PvP, you don't want a talent that's solely for PvP. Instead, I'd pick up Efficiency in this case. If you want a stun, you have Intimidate. It's not a %chance to work. Use it.
Arthas, don't knock Improved Arcane. In this case, I would choose longevity over dps (Efficiency over Imp Arcane), but Arcane Shot is a high-power shot for a Beast Master. If your Arcane Shot does 500 damage, that'd equate to about 83 dps normally... but 100 dps with the IA talent.
Improved Mark is indeed a potent dps talent, not just in a group, but anywhere that you use Hunter's Mark. This talent is not one to be discounted so readily.
I personally question the value of Aimed Shot in a BM-heavy build, particularly without its companion talent Mortal Shots. You may want to consider a spec that does not include Aimed Shot.
Now, to address the previous posts:
Quote:
BM isnt good for raiding.
and it will probably never be unless pets get such a huuuuuuuge buff that the whole world (non wow players included) will cry for a nerf.
Dump bestial swiftness, wasted talent point since a lot of pets already have dash/dive/charge.
Imp. Mend pet is not close to as good as Imp. Revive pet.
i'd rather be able to ress my pet in combat with half health instead of maybe removing curse/poison.
spirit bond is a really nice ability, and helped me out a large number of fights.
Catlike reflexes... whuuu dodge... nothing good for raid, party or PvP.
Not great for solo.
Ferocious Inspiration is a lot better, your pet attacks fater and has a higher crit chance then normal pets, so the buff procs rather often (especially with the speed buff it gives itself after a crit) and in the long fights in dungeons it helps out nicely.
Imp. concussive < hawk eye, effeciency, imp. arcane, rapid killing or monster/humanoid slaying (especially the last 1 for pvp)
and imp. mark doesnt help a lot in PvP/solo either, but is great in grouping.
edit: a raiding guild probably wont let you try BM out in a raid. they will ask/demand you to respec.
and it will probably never be unless pets get such a huuuuuuuge buff that the whole world (non wow players included) will cry for a nerf.
Dump bestial swiftness, wasted talent point since a lot of pets already have dash/dive/charge.
Imp. Mend pet is not close to as good as Imp. Revive pet.
i'd rather be able to ress my pet in combat with half health instead of maybe removing curse/poison.
spirit bond is a really nice ability, and helped me out a large number of fights.
Catlike reflexes... whuuu dodge... nothing good for raid, party or PvP.
Not great for solo.
Ferocious Inspiration is a lot better, your pet attacks fater and has a higher crit chance then normal pets, so the buff procs rather often (especially with the speed buff it gives itself after a crit) and in the long fights in dungeons it helps out nicely.
Imp. concussive < hawk eye, effeciency, imp. arcane, rapid killing or monster/humanoid slaying (especially the last 1 for pvp)
and imp. mark doesnt help a lot in PvP/solo either, but is great in grouping.
edit: a raiding guild probably wont let you try BM out in a raid. they will ask/demand you to respec.
Beast Mastery is excellent in 5-10 man settings, still good in 15-20. Higher raids, however, give pets a very difficult time surviving.
Bestial Swiftness is a good talent to have, but unnecessary for raiding.
Improved Mend Pet and Improved Revive Pet are both great talents to have. If you're only going to get one, get Improved Revive -- this makes mid-combat reviving feasible and workable, and that can sometimes be the difference between saving the healer or wiping the raid.
Spirit Bond doesn't have good returns for the investment. You can safely bypass this talent.
Catlike Reflexes is an excellent talent to have, especially for any situation in which your pet is needed to off-tank. 9% dodge is nothing shabby, and 3% dodge on yourself is a nice bonus. The longer your pet lives, the longer it can protect the squishies. This talent is wonderful for solo, because that's an extra 9% that your pet is not being hit, which more or less means 9% less damage for you to heal.
Although I disagree on Aethien's breakdown, I wouldn't take Improved Concussive for a hybrid build. If you're going to raid, solo, and PvP, you don't want a talent that's solely for PvP. Instead, I'd pick up Efficiency in this case. If you want a stun, you have Intimidate. It's not a %chance to work. Use it.
Arthas, don't knock Improved Arcane. In this case, I would choose longevity over dps (Efficiency over Imp Arcane), but Arcane Shot is a high-power shot for a Beast Master. If your Arcane Shot does 500 damage, that'd equate to about 83 dps normally... but 100 dps with the IA talent.
Improved Mark is indeed a potent dps talent, not just in a group, but anywhere that you use Hunter's Mark. This talent is not one to be discounted so readily.
I personally question the value of Aimed Shot in a BM-heavy build, particularly without its companion talent Mortal Shots. You may want to consider a spec that does not include Aimed Shot.
Quote:
Although I disagree on Aethien's breakdown, I wouldn't take Improved Concussive for a hybrid build. If you're going to raid, solo, and PvP, you don't want a talent that's solely for PvP. Instead, I'd pick up Efficiency in this case. If you want a stun, you have Intimidate. It's not a %chance to work. Use it.
Quote:
Arthas, don't knock Improved Arcane. In this case, I would choose longevity over dps (Efficiency over Imp Arcane), but Arcane Shot is a high-power shot for a Beast Master. If your Arcane Shot does 500 damage, that'd equate to about 83 dps normally... but 100 dps with the IA talent.
Kinda disagreeing with yourself there Sayis. Imp. Arcane Shot is PvP. Imp. Concussive can be PvP or PvE. When kiting in PvE Imp. Concussive, when it procs, will give you the chance to get out a Steady Shot or 2. When I tried using Arcane Shot for kiting, the mob had half hp by the time I was OOM. In PvP it is good, since it gives you more instants but you say that Imp. Concussive isn't good for a hybrid because it's "purely PvP". Well, I think Imp. Arcane is much more a PvP talent than Imp. Concussive. But you're right that efficiency over Imp. Concussive. But I would also place Imp. Concussive > Imp. Arcane.
Quote:
Improved Mend Pet and Improved Revive Pet are both great talents to have. If you're only going to get one, get Improved Revive -- this makes mid-combat reviving feasible and workable, and that can sometimes be the difference between saving the healer or wiping the raid.
Well, he/she is looking for a hunter that is a good all-around player. And in grouping Imp. Revive may be a tad better than Imp. Mend, Imp. Men > Imp. Revive in PvP/Solo.
Quote:
I personally question the value of Aimed Shot in a BM-heavy build, particularly without its companion talent Mortal Shots. You may want to consider a spec that does not include Aimed Shot.
Aimed Shot is godly for PvP. Even if you go far into BM Aimed Shot is amazing for PvP. A CCed or unexpecting clothy is in for a big surprise if you pop an Aimed Shot combo on them.
Improved Hunter's Mark increases your pet's damage output. I absolutely love the talent and wouldn't trade it for Improved Concussive Shot. 20% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds (on each Concussive Shot which is on a 12-second cooldown) or +110 attack power on all melee/ranged attacks dealt to the target?
I don't have Improved Mend Pet because I rarely have to cleanse my pet. His health regen is better than mine and if he's dying from DoT ticks I'll just throw a high rank of Mend Pet on him. Mend Pet is just mana, I can drink it away. Improved Revive Pet helps in a tight spot if an elite just killed your pet, or if someone took out your pet and you managed to throw a Freezing Trap on him. I guess it's a matter of preference. As a Beast Master your pet is half your damage, or 25% at least. Keeping it up is your number one priority.
I would pick up Ferocious Inspiration, though. +3% damage to everyone in the party is very nice. It procs almost constantly due to the high crit rate of the pet. Not very good for raiding, but for 5-mans and PvP it's awesome.
I personally like Bestial Swiftness. I rarely use Dash with it. If you have a pet without Dash, or a pet where Dash resets another timer (like Boars and their Charge ability), having Bestial Swiftness is a nice band aid.
My suggestion to an alternate build would be this.
Efficiency will give you +10% more mana. Not worth getting, in my opinion. Nor is Go for the Throat. Your pet is already generating a lot of focus with Bestial Discipline. My pet has Claw and Growl activated and never misses a Growl. Ferocious Inspiration will give you +3% damage almost constantly, not to mention everyone else in your group. Savage Strikes is a must for PvP. Get a hard-hitting two-handed weapon and your Raptor Strikes will more often than not hurt like hell. Hawk Eye will boost your shots to an amazing 40-41 yards, if I remember correctly.
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 2:17am by Mazra
I don't have Improved Mend Pet because I rarely have to cleanse my pet. His health regen is better than mine and if he's dying from DoT ticks I'll just throw a high rank of Mend Pet on him. Mend Pet is just mana, I can drink it away. Improved Revive Pet helps in a tight spot if an elite just killed your pet, or if someone took out your pet and you managed to throw a Freezing Trap on him. I guess it's a matter of preference. As a Beast Master your pet is half your damage, or 25% at least. Keeping it up is your number one priority.
I would pick up Ferocious Inspiration, though. +3% damage to everyone in the party is very nice. It procs almost constantly due to the high crit rate of the pet. Not very good for raiding, but for 5-mans and PvP it's awesome.
I personally like Bestial Swiftness. I rarely use Dash with it. If you have a pet without Dash, or a pet where Dash resets another timer (like Boars and their Charge ability), having Bestial Swiftness is a nice band aid.
My suggestion to an alternate build would be this.
Efficiency will give you +10% more mana. Not worth getting, in my opinion. Nor is Go for the Throat. Your pet is already generating a lot of focus with Bestial Discipline. My pet has Claw and Growl activated and never misses a Growl. Ferocious Inspiration will give you +3% damage almost constantly, not to mention everyone else in your group. Savage Strikes is a must for PvP. Get a hard-hitting two-handed weapon and your Raptor Strikes will more often than not hurt like hell. Hawk Eye will boost your shots to an amazing 40-41 yards, if I remember correctly.
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 2:17am by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
mazra wrote:
Efficiency will give you +10% more mana. Not worth getting, in my opinion. Nor is Go for the Throat. Your pet is already generating a lot of focus with Bestial Discipline. My pet has Claw and Growl activated and never misses a Growl. Ferocious Inspiration will give you +3% damage almost constantly, not to mention everyone else in your group. Savage Strikes is a must for PvP. Get a hard-hitting two-handed weapon and your Raptor Strikes will more often than not hurt like hell. Hawk Eye will boost your shots to an amazing 40-41 yards, if I remember correctly.
Focus is saved to make sure Growl is used all the time, at least it never misses 1 for as far as i have seen, and GftT will help me keep screech up all the time.
ferocious inspiration, along with the 30% speed buff your pet gets after a crit can keep instiration up an entire fight. (especially with king B. as he will probably get to under 1.0 attack speed with that and serpent's swiftness.)
i also like Aimed shot because it is a good way to open a fight: Send in pet>mark>aimed, by the time you are halfway through your aimed shot your pet starts to fight.
This is my current build. That said, I'm very disappointed with the effectiveness of a BM build in the tougher Instances. It all hinges on the Pet. A BM build is as effective as a MM build in a vacuum because the personal DPS lost by the Hunter is replaced with higher DPS on the Pet. This works fine in the lower level BC Instances, but tends to fall apart once the level 70 instances are reached.
The Pet doesn't have enough mitigation (the +9% Dodge from Catlike Reflexes is not enough) to tank even a single Mob in a Heroic and even some non-Heroic level instances (say, Shattered Halls).
This may be alleviated a bit with the promised changes in 2.1.0.
The Pet doesn't have enough mitigation (the +9% Dodge from Catlike Reflexes is not enough) to tank even a single Mob in a Heroic and even some non-Heroic level instances (say, Shattered Halls).
This may be alleviated a bit with the promised changes in 2.1.0.
thank you guys for the great advice, I re'looked over the build, and tweaked it to this, I tried my best to make it hybrid,without gimping it, but will likely lean towards pvp, or group play a little more than hybrid,if this build doesnt work out.
how's this for a hybrid? too gimp? or no?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0520320051501225313510554100000000000000000000000000000000000000
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 8:11am by FFGamer
how's this for a hybrid? too gimp? or no?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0520320051501225313510554100000000000000000000000000000000000000
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 8:11am by FFGamer
Aethien wrote:
i also like Aimed shot because it is a good way to open a fight: Send in pet>mark>aimed, by the time you are halfway through your aimed shot your pet starts to fight.
I agree whole-heartedly with that. I have Aimed Shot and love it. It doesn't crit very often (15% chance) and it doesn't crit for boomtastic damage since I don't have Mortal Shots, but a 1600 damage crit is better than nothing.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
plus in Arena BM spec is invalueable. Hunter and pet both gain extra damage and immune to fear for 18 seconds, within that 18 seconds theres a 90% chance whatever class is attempting to fear the hunter is dead :).
And for the buff that BM spec gives the group on pet crit, alot of groups do like BM spec hunters as long as theres a healthy mix of marksman in there.
My guild loves me using this build for example:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0500320150521205310510505201205000000000000000000000000000000000
great damage, big crits, pet can off-tank in any instance except Karazan, the build lacks in a few Marksman things I like but me and some friends do the Arena alot and being immune to fear combined with my racial ablity to be immune to rogues crippling poison makes me a pretty mean dood to fight.
And for the buff that BM spec gives the group on pet crit, alot of groups do like BM spec hunters as long as theres a healthy mix of marksman in there.
My guild loves me using this build for example:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0500320150521205310510505201205000000000000000000000000000000000
great damage, big crits, pet can off-tank in any instance except Karazan, the build lacks in a few Marksman things I like but me and some friends do the Arena alot and being immune to fear combined with my racial ablity to be immune to rogues crippling poison makes me a pretty mean dood to fight.
19 posts
As is said, BM isn't good for raiding, or it at least thats generally believed. If you can try maybe raiding once specced BM then go for it. You eally have to experiment with talent speccs theres no foolproof way to do it. I like BM specc in PvP though.
If you want to raid as a BM I say go for it. Check out the official Hunter forum and "loot" it for information from other BM hunters about how to manage your pet better etc.
I think that both Ferocious Inspiration and Catlike Reflexes are great talents it's best to have for a BM hunter. FI is your party buff (whether you're in raids or dungeons) and Catlike Reflexes increases your pet survivability by a lot. I dropped Thick Hide for Endurance Training and went to a 43-pt BM build with Catlike Reflexes and that improved my pet's durability by a good amount.
Aimed Shot is still somewhat handy for a BM but I basically use it for Misdirection pulls. I haven't PVP'd much but obviously it should have its uses there at times.
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 1:55pm by seroster
I think that both Ferocious Inspiration and Catlike Reflexes are great talents it's best to have for a BM hunter. FI is your party buff (whether you're in raids or dungeons) and Catlike Reflexes increases your pet survivability by a lot. I dropped Thick Hide for Endurance Training and went to a 43-pt BM build with Catlike Reflexes and that improved my pet's durability by a good amount.
Aimed Shot is still somewhat handy for a BM but I basically use it for Misdirection pulls. I haven't PVP'd much but obviously it should have its uses there at times.
Edited, Apr 4th 2007 1:55pm by seroster
Good build but I would drop the 2 points in focused fire and put one in Efficiency and Aimed Shot. Although Focused Fire is good, those other two are better.
Here is a very good, very long thread on the EU forums about hunter dps. I read it all a few weeks ago, and somewhere in there is a hardcore raiding hunter who, over the course of the thread, is persuaded from a full MM nut to a 41 BM raiding hunter. BM *is* very slightly higher dps, but only in pet friendly fights. Its just a shame that so many fights arent pet friendly at all =/
thanks guys, I guess at 70 it will be hybrid BM/MM, thank you.
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