Lowbie Question: Tiger's FuryFollow

With my 29 druid twink i sometimes use is i'm needing to claw (moslt shred).

I find it a waste of energy, only of use in PVP when your against a mage and know your only going to get a couple of hits in.

My only use for it is a nice fat 1.1k ravage on a sitting clothie, preferably gnomes :P

In a raiding situation, Tiger's Fury is not worth the Energy. It's DPE ratio is horrible.

Burning a Cower and saving the extra 10 Energy is better then using TF, imo.

Cower > FB will provide FB Base + Other Energy + 41.0 damage. (Because Cower costs 20 Energy as opposed to TF which is 30. Extra Energy is coverted to damage at a 1:4.1 rate. Therefore the 10 Energy you saved by burning Cower instead of TF will generate 41.0 damage instead of 40 AND lower your threat).

In JeeBar's first situation, Building Energy then FB will generate more damage then building Energy > TF > FB. TF increases damage done by 40, whereas each extra point of energy is converted to 4.1 Damage. Which means that his FB could be Damage + 123 (30 Extra Energy * 4.1) or Damage + 40 (TF's static bonus).

It's a tool for Resto Druids out grinding, and has some small use if you can TF while stealthed, then let your energy rebuild (4 Seconds since it's 30 Energy) and then opening.

The sad fact of the matter is, after the early levels, TF is an almost worthless skill. :P It'd be nice if they added some benefit like increased energy regen while under it's effects, or something similar.

Ugh, re-reading that it seemed confusing, so here's something simpler. :P

Cower Cost: 20 Energy
Tiger's Fury Cost: 30 Energy

Cower: Static Threat Decrease of 1170.
Tiger's Fury: Static damage increase of 40

Assuming the Feral Druid is in Cat form with 5 Combo Points and 100 Energy:

Druid who Cowers > Ferocious Bite:

Cower (-20 Energy) > Ferocious Bite with remaining (80) Energy = 968+(45*4.1) = 1152.5.

Druid who TF > Ferocious Bite:

Tiger's Fury (-30 Energy) > Ferocious Bite with remaining (70) Energy = 968+(35*4.1)+40 = 1151.5.

Summary:

Cower > FB
Base Damage (Non Crit): 1152.5
Crit Damage: 2650.75 (Base * 2.3)
Threat Generated: 1480.75

TF > FB
Base Damage (Non Crit): 1151.5
Crit Damage: 2596.45 ((Base-40) * 2.3 + 40)
Threat Generated: 2596.45

So not only does TF do less damage, it creates more threat in the situation above.

Back to JeeBar's situation 1, the math works out like this:

FB Alone
Base Damage: 1234.5 (968+(65 * 4.1))
Crit Damage: 2839.35 ((968+(65 * 4.1)) * 2.3)

TF > FB
Base Damage: 1151.5 (968+(35 * 4.1))
Crit Damage: 2596.45 ((968+(35*4.1)) * 2.3 + 40)


Edited, Apr 9th 2007 6:13pm by ItharrAlexander

yes, cower > FB is good, but if a druid is raid dpsing, cower should always be on cooldown anyway.

TF has its purpose. its not the best skill in a druids ******** but ignoring is worse than using it, and it still provides a sizeable boost to shred DPS, especially with mangle up.

it, like many druid skills, serves a niche purpose.

well, thats all well and good, but youre thinking optimal conditions here. there are times when using TF is better than doing nothing. in BC youre rarely, if ever, fighting an immense immobile wall with millions of HP. fights in BC are dynamic, involving movement that often results in less contact time with the enemy.

so what do you do with a full bar of energy and nothing to use it on? youve got 2-3 seconds of movement time before youre back in range....may as well use TF. otherwise that energy that would have ticked back is "wasted".

its not a lot of dps. its doesnt have a very good DPE. but its better than letting possible energy ticks go to waste. and it still provides a sizeable increase to shred damage thanks to the modifiers inherent in shred and mangle.

TF +dmg gives damage to base druid attack damage. so basically its listed char sheet damage plus whatever TF is worth. in cat form, this is basically a flat DPS increase, since the normal attack in cat is 1.0 spd.

this new base damage (call it TFdmg) is then used as the base damage from which shred, claw, mangle, and ravage are derived from. hence, with shred, youre getting that 140% (or whatever it is) modifier. with ravage, you get that 280% (or again, whatever it is....i cant remember off the top of my head). with the mangle debuff granting +30% damage to shred, adding TF into your shred rotation increases the damage you get from it by a much larger amount that most think. if TF adds 40 damage, shreds 140% modifier turns that into 106 dmg more or so, which then gets modified further by 30% from mangle, for about 35 extra damage.

so ultimately, with shred and mangle modifiers, the 30 energy cost of TF (which was 1.3:1 DPE) now becomes a boost of 181 dmg instead of 40 (or a DPE of ~6:1).

thats not factoring in crits, or the +crit dmg boost talent, which further enhance the relative DPE contribution of TF.

essentially, with TF, you need to factor in the modifiers of the skills. on normal attacks, TF max rank corresponds to an AP increase of about 560 AP (its +40 dmg/sec, or 40 dps, and 14 AP = 1 dps, so 40*14). this "extra" AP is then factored, as base damage, into the attacks of your cat form druid. anything with a modifier on it (mangle, shred, ravage) receives a much bigger increase from TF than a mere 40 damage. also keep in mind that 560 AP is a bigger increase than the max rank of rampage, the warrior 41-pt fury talent, or even the highest rank of talented battle shout.

Even with the modifiers, it's a garbage skill that's not worth the energy you burn to use it. Capping at 6:1 DPE makes it a skill not worth the energy cost with the exception of very isolated, very unique situations. Definetely not worth a hotkey. :P

So far, I've heard one specific instance (few seconds away from the mob and you're at 100 Energy already, might as well burn it) where it would be useful. Otherwise, the energy is better spent elsewhere.

PS: Unless it's a sitting Cloth, Pounce > Ravage.

Everyone plays their own way tho, I'm just discussing what's efficient and what's not.

Edited, Apr 10th 2007 12:06pm by ItharrAlexander

eh, to each their own. ive been able to work TF into most attack rotations i use in cat form, and its a great thing to pop when OoC goes off, followed by a mangle or shred > FB. damage is damage, and its still essentially 560 free AP. i know pretty much every damage class would kill for an instant +40 dmg on-demand ability.

Yeah, that's the core difference in what we're seeing. In my view, You're basically trading a Mangle or Shred for a +560AP bump to your damage over the next 6 seconds.

Toss in the fact that BC released no new TF Rank (Dunno why, we get one every 10 levels prior, yet didn't get it at 70) and as your gear scales up, Mangle/Shred become more efficient uses of Energy, whereas TF's efficiency just goes down. Which is why TF is nice for Resto Druids and lower level Druids. :P

Honestly what they need to do is either A: Buff the Duration, B: Make it a Party Ability, or C: Give us a Fear Immunity during the duration. Any or all of those would make it a very worthwhile ability.

Why not? Berserker Rage gives Warrior's Fear Immunity. Would a 6 second Fear Immunity for CAtform druids be THAT bad?

Yeah, it probably would. :D

But watching the other Fearing class QQ would be entertaining. :D

Your attack speed in Cat form is 1.00, so Tiger's Fury would technically (or at least on my paper) increase your white DPS with whatever amount of damage your Tiger's Fury increases with.

If it's, say, +30 damage, your DPS should go up by 30. If you're doing 100 DPS as it is, 130 DPS is a pretty big leap.

Obviously it's not as pretty and pink as I just wrote it to be, but I remember doing some tests with it and white damage in Cat form. I think the conclusion was that the white damage actually went up by so much that I skipped a Claw and kept Tiger's Fury up at all times.

Then I got Mangle and all hell broke loose.