Mind Flay (Rank 7)
230 Mana 20 yd
528 damage over 3 sec and slowing the target
Vampiric Touch (Rank 1)
325 Mana 30 yd
450 damage over 15 sec and causes all party members to gain mana equal to 5% of any shadow spell damage you deal.
let Gear = 1209
Mind Flay does not follow channeling rules and uses 59% damage applied
1209 (gear) *0.59 (penalty) = 713.31 (benefit from gear to MF)
528 (base damage) +713.31 (benefit) = 1241.31 (total damage)
1241.31 (total damage) *0.05 (vampiric touch) = 62.0655 (mana back per cast per party member)
62.0655 (mana back to the individual) *5 (number of party members) = 310.3275 (total mana back to the whole party per cast)
310.3275 (total mana back) - 230 (total mana spent) = 80
80 mana profit!
So what I was things was this...
let number of members in party = 5
let number of shadow priests in party = 5
lets see what we have now...?! :)
62.0655 (mana returned to the individual) *5 (as *5 is the individual's benefit from the other priests) = 310.3275 (total mana returned to the individual.)
310.3275 (total mana returned to the individual) - 230 (mana spent by the individual) = 80 (mana profit to each individual in the party)
80 (profit per individual) *5 (number of individuals in party) = 400 (total mana profit to the party each 3 sec)
400 mana profit! free damage and free mana!
With just one shadow priest in the party they would run out of mana as their mana is transferred too the other members. But if all of the members are shadow priests than that mana would be transferred back at a larger amount overflowing all 5 of the priest's mana pools.
This kind of party would render obsolete any and all +int gear/+spirit gear/mana over time gear and mana potions.
With free mana all members could have shields up at all times.
Keep in mind that this math is not taking into account 'shadowform', 'shadow weaving', 'vampirice embrace' or any of the other talents other then Mind Flay and Vampiric Touch.
Edit Numerical Typo:Fix Thanks to Sjans and lsfreak.
Edited, Apr 13th 2007 2:02am by Maxzzzz
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Borked up math, you forgot the cost of VT.
So the "break-even" damage point is a bit higher. Or you start adding SF and SW.
(15 sec recast, 1.5 sec VT casttime, 3 sec MF casttime)
And btw youre taking rank 1 VT as example not 3.
And VT and VE of multiple SP's dont stack on the same mob, they replace eachother.
Theyre classified as curses.(VE doesnt stack, 100% sure, tested, probably same for VT) Only curse that stacks afaik is curse of agony, probably bc thats 100% damage and nothing else.
/edit
You beat me mothra :P
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 7:01am by Sjans
So the "break-even" damage point is a bit higher. Or you start adding SF and SW.
(15 sec recast, 1.5 sec VT casttime, 3 sec MF casttime)
And btw youre taking rank 1 VT as example not 3.
And VT and VE of multiple SP's dont stack on the same mob, they replace eachother.
Theyre classified as curses.(VE doesnt stack, 100% sure, tested, probably same for VT) Only curse that stacks afaik is curse of agony, probably bc thats 100% damage and nothing else.
/edit
You beat me mothra :P
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 7:01am by Sjans
Yes, I had the same thought too, this is assuming that VT can stack more than once on a mob, not sure if it can. Regardless, this would be great for grinding areas like netherstorm for motes etc where the mobs come in droves and respawn fast.
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 6:32am by thegreatmothra
Edited, Apr 12th 2007 6:32am by thegreatmothra
Did they change it? Neither VT or VE are curses, they're both "magical effects," and I know VT used to stack and thought VE did as well.
Yea, you messed up rank on VT - linked and used stats from Rank 1 but called it Rank 3 :P Rank 1 VT is the most mana-efficient, though - 200 drop in base damage and 100 less mana, but it still gets 100% of bonus damage as of last patch.
Two shadow priests was proven to be insanely effective when Death and Taxes (I think?) did a 5-man Loatheb in Naxx back in December O.o
Edited, Apr 13th 2007 1:09am by lsfreak
Yea, you messed up rank on VT - linked and used stats from Rank 1 but called it Rank 3 :P Rank 1 VT is the most mana-efficient, though - 200 drop in base damage and 100 less mana, but it still gets 100% of bonus damage as of last patch.
Two shadow priests was proven to be insanely effective when Death and Taxes (I think?) did a 5-man Loatheb in Naxx back in December O.o
Edited, Apr 13th 2007 1:09am by lsfreak
Okay, let me explain what would happen:
Shadow priests draw aggro. Shadow priests die.
Shadow priests draw aggro. Shadow priests die.
Hmz, last extensive SP testing i did was pre-TBC, i should shaddap.
Sjans wrote:
btw youre taking rank 1 VT as example not 3.
lsfreak wrote:
Yea, you messed up rank on VT
whoopsy daisy, my bad
here let me fix that up.
-------------------------
lsfreak wrote:
but it still gets 100% of bonus damage as of last patch
I did not know... thanks lsfreak!
I was just assuming that after all that +gear Vampiric Touch would pay for itself,
but come to think of it I don't know that math for VT.
100% from all +damage gear regardless of rank?
if so it gos like this...
base + gear = total damage
total damage *0.05 = mana returned to the individual
mana returned to the individual *5 = mana returned to the party
mana returned to the party - mana spent on vampiric touch = mana profit to the party
Vampiric Touch r1
325 Mana 30 yd range
450 damage over 15 sec, party members gain mana equal to 5% of any Shadow spell damage you deal.
((450 +1209) *0.05) *5 - 325 = mana profit to the party
((450 +1209) *0.05) *5 - 325 = 89.75
Vampiric Touch r3
425 Mana 30 yd range
650 damage over 15 sec, party members gain mana equal to 5% of any Shadow spell damage you deal.
(650 +1209) *0.05) *5 - 425 = mana profit to the party
(650 +1209) *0.05) *5 - 425 = 39.75
89.75 is higher then 39.75, rank 1 wins
So vampiric touch pays for itself making ok for me to over look it's cost in the math but you were right rank 1 is the better choice, I have made the edit.
-------------------------
Sharajat wrote:
Okay, let me explain what would happen:...
yer I know... :)
I was not thinking of this as the 'end all' of warcraft, but rather as a 5 man party in a larger raid.
The other raid members could include say... a tank for the aggro and maybe a holy priest for the tank.
Leaving the shadow priest party independent within the raid.
Assuming you feel like raiding....
-------------------------
off topic
Sjans wrote:
i should shaddap.
year bro jump aboard!
Edited, Apr 13th 2007 10:19pm by Maxzzzz
nvm
Edited, Apr 13th 2007 5:44am by Sjans
Edited, Apr 13th 2007 5:44am by Sjans
As of last night... VE and VT still stack on bonechewer... I normally group with a fellow Shadow Priest and Holy Paladin. With the new rules in place to allow more effects on a target you very rarely overwrite someone elses "cast" unlike in Pre-BC raids.
Quote:
yer I know... :)
I was not thinking of this as the 'end all' of warcraft, but rather as a 5 man party in a larger raid.
The other raid members could include say... a tank for the aggro and maybe a holy priest for the tank.
Leaving the shadow priest party independent within the raid.
Assuming you feel like raiding....
Plus, there'd be a hell of a lot more benefit in adding some spellcasters with higher damage outputs to the party.
Hey Sharajat
my apologies for the misunderstand, easy to do when I'm replying to seven words :)
one of the reasons I wanted to post this was to show that an endless mana supply was possible, not necessarily ideal.
the priest's can interrupted spellcasting when their threat starts to near that of the tank's, (as any player can) I would expect them to be at max mana at that point. I realize that this extra threat would result in each priest doing less damage then say a mage or a warlock, but I feel there is still good value in a party setup like this.
If we were to think about a scenario where the boss fight was going to take a long time ...a very long time, maybe to the likes of which blizzard has not yet created then we could say that in a scenario like this the priest's damage is caped by threat and the mage/warlock damage is caped by mana.
...and therefore the 'shadow priest 5 man party value' is relative to the 'length of time of the fight'.
hmmmmm... ok ;)
what did you have in mind?
Edited, Apr 22nd 2007 12:40am by Maxzzzz
my apologies for the misunderstand, easy to do when I'm replying to seven words :)
one of the reasons I wanted to post this was to show that an endless mana supply was possible, not necessarily ideal.
Sharajat wrote:
All the mana restoration causes additional threat, as does ongoing, uninterrupted spellcasting.
the priest's can interrupted spellcasting when their threat starts to near that of the tank's, (as any player can) I would expect them to be at max mana at that point. I realize that this extra threat would result in each priest doing less damage then say a mage or a warlock, but I feel there is still good value in a party setup like this.
If we were to think about a scenario where the boss fight was going to take a long time ...a very long time, maybe to the likes of which blizzard has not yet created then we could say that in a scenario like this the priest's damage is caped by threat and the mage/warlock damage is caped by mana.
...and therefore the 'shadow priest 5 man party value' is relative to the 'length of time of the fight'.
Sharajat wrote:
Plus, there'd be a hell of a lot more benefit in adding some spellcasters with higher damage outputs to the party.
hmmmmm... ok ;)
what did you have in mind?
Edited, Apr 22nd 2007 12:40am by Maxzzzz
Maxzzz had the right idea. If I recall, 2 shadow priests in the same group will basically be able to keep each other's mana up indefinitely, and outside of 5-mans and the beginning of Karazhan, it appears that boss fights are complicated enough that aggro shouldn't be any kind of problem (due to adds, etc, where the straight damage will not be doing threat to the boss, only the regen/healing).
On that note, however - Arena of Blood with a Demo Lock's felguard tanking and 4 shadow priests was fun as hell :D
On that note, however - Arena of Blood with a Demo Lock's felguard tanking and 4 shadow priests was fun as hell :D
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