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PTR 2.1 Patch - Opinions?Follow

#1 Apr 17 2007 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
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286 posts
Okay, so for some reason the druid forum is the only one that doesn't appear to have a post about the patch notes. There's one about the epic flying form, and one about the gear changes, but none about the other changes to the class. So...for those of you who don't know what they are, they're

Blizzard wrote:
Druids


* The "Druid Epic Flight Form" is now available through a series of quests.
* "Barkskin" now reduces all damage taken, with its duration reduced to 12 seconds and cooldown reduced to 1 minute. The tooltip has been adjusted to indicate this ability can be used while frozen, incapacitated, or cowering in fear. That functionality was already present, but not listed in the tooltip.
* "Bear Form" and "Dire Bear Form": The bonus health from shapeshifting into these forms will again be removed correctly when shifting out of these forms.
* "Cyclone": This ability will no longer work on hunters with "The Beast Within" active or hunter pets with "Bestial Wrath" active.
* "Feral Charge" now suppresses all Slowing effects while charging the target.
* Fixed a data error that caused "Swiftmend" to generate more threat than intended.
* "Force of Nature": These pets will now come into the game with full health, including that gained from a percentage of their master's stamina.
* "Gift of the Wild", ranks 1 and 2, are now available on trainers.
* "Gift of the Wild": Rank 3 of this ability now has the same range as ranks 1 and 2.
* "Improved Leader of the Pack": This ability will no longer generate threat.
* "Lacerate": The tooltip has been adjusted to indicate it does initial bleed damage when the ability first lands.
* "Lifebloom": Each additional application of this spell will now include the full bonus from effects which increase healing. The final heal, however, is still unaffected by stacking multiple applications of this spell.
* "Mangle(Bear)": Damage increased by 15%, but bonus threat reduced so that overall threat generation will be unchanged.
* "Nature's Grace": This talent is now triggered by "Swiftmend" and "Lifebloom", and is triggered by and affects "Cyclone".
* "Nature's Grasp": The mana cost has been removed from all ranks as intended.
* "Omen of Clarity": This spell is no longer castable in "Tree of Life Form" or "Moonkin Form".
* "Prowl"will now be broken correctly by damage shields such as "Oil of Immolation".
* "Rake": The tooltip has been adjusted to indicate the initial damage done is bleed damage. In addition, "Rake" can now always be re-applied, even when "Mangle" is active.
* "Shapeshifting" will no longer remove the "Rotting Putrescence" creature debuff.
* "Subtlety"(Restoration Talent) now applies to all spells, not just healing spells.
* "Swiftmend": This ability will now be correctly penalized for casting low rank "Rejuvenations" and "Regrowths" just as other healing spells are penalized.
* "Teleport: Moonglade": This spell is no longer castable in "Tree of Life Form".
* "Tree of Life Form": The tooltip has been corrected to indicate "Nature's Swiftness" and "Rebirth" are castable in this form.


I was curious what people here thought. The o-boards are obviously just a bunch of whining and complaining, and not much really productive, so I thought I would ask a higher authority, as it were.

Being a Boomkin-in-training, the thing that annoys me is where they have the talent that reduces threat, that it's 10 points into the resto tree, meaning that I'd have to spec at least 15 points (and more likely 18) into the resto tree to have a seriously raid-viable spec.

I can't really comment on a lot of the feral or resto changes (some of them are abilities I don't have yet and have no experience with), and some of the changes just seem kind of pointless...such as trees being able to teleport to the moonglade. I'm still not sure how cyclone is suppose to crit and activate nature's grace...

So basically, I'm just curious what the people here think about the patch notes. If someone already did one of these (I didn't see it on the first two pages, and I think the notes are more recent than the last thing on the second page) I'm sorry.

Thanks for any responses.
#2 Apr 17 2007 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
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3,114 posts
Only complaints are about the druid nerf and OoC not being castable in Moonkin (which makes sence since it's a Resto skill)

It's mainly just bug fixes and very slight buffs/nerfs. Not a lot changing for us really.
#3 Apr 17 2007 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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179 posts
Quote:
Only complaints are about the druid nerf


Exactly what druid nerf are you talking about?
#4 Apr 17 2007 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
the nerf where the brears dmg was reduced by almost 50%
#5 Apr 17 2007 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
"Force of Nature": These pets will now come into the game with full health, including that gained from a percentage of their master's stamina.

How did that change, never got trees yet, and was significant?
#6 Apr 17 2007 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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104 posts
As a oomkin i had a big smile on my face after reading about the threat reduction talent change. The change to lifebloom also made me happy in the pants.
#7 Apr 17 2007 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
The charge fix will be nice.
Imp LoP fix will also be nice for cat form druids.
Mangle Damage Increased, big plus.

There weren't any real nerfs, I'm also happy with the hunter changes. Was a good patch.


EDIT::::: The new Over time features are amazing for druids HoT's monitoring.

Edited, Apr 17th 2007 2:47pm by Feralist
#8 Apr 17 2007 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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1,859 posts
OMFG No, no, no, no!
"Teleport Moonglade: This spell is no longer castable in "Tree of Life Form"."
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

*ahem*

Yeah, well, just a bunch of fixes really. Nothing particularly significant. I like the damage buff on Bear Mangle. Remains the same for tanking but with that 15% more damage it might be back to doing more damage than Maul. (Which really stunk, IMO)
#9 Apr 17 2007 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
I'm not sure I like the idea of the Mangle change; it means boss tanking will be a little harder. More damage but less threat per attack...all things equal, this would mean the end result is the same, but with boss defenses being as high as they are, you in effect lose some threat gain on the boss.

Probably not going to be a huge deal, but it is something that piques my concern.
#10 Apr 17 2007 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
* "Barkskin" now reduces all damage taken, with its duration reduced to 12 seconds and cooldown reduced to 1 minute.

This is a pretty big change. I'm pretty sure (sorry if I'm wrong) but right now it's 20% reduction for 30 seconds, with all the other fun stuff, and a 2min cooldown. I like the 1min cooldown much more, since that means I can use it more than once for sure in a PvP fight.
And they didn't reduce the damage, they INCREASED it by 15%. They reduced the threat it made, so it evened out threat-wise. Something I don't get though, why can't you cast OoC, something you only get in the Resto tree, in Tree of Life form? Makes good sense to me to be able to.
And did anyone else notice Rogues got a LOT of helpful things?
#11 Apr 17 2007 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
Double post

Edited, Apr 17th 2007 4:13pm by Norellicus
#12 Apr 17 2007 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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1,260 posts
I like it :) Though the biggest druid buff isn't even in the druid section of the patch notes~ All gear which spends part of it's item budget on armor is getting buffed, which is pretty much all of my gear :) This will help feral scale better in raids, since I won't be sacrificing armor anymore by "upgrading".

Bear mangle is nice buff for PvP, no real change in PvE since it was balanced to still generate the same threat.

Don't really care about the ILotP changes... It's effect was small enough that I never noticed it anyways~

Quote:
Being a Boomkin-in-training, the thing that annoys me is where they have the talent that reduces threat, that it's 10 points into the resto tree, meaning that I'd have to spec at least 15 points (and more likely 18) into the resto tree to have a seriously raid-viable spec.


Not really a big issue, Most people end up putting points in 2 trees to be more effective. Full feral druids have 11-19 points in restro~ Sure, the first tier isn't that useful for balance, but Nature's Focus on the second tier would come in handy for PvP/Arena.
#13 Apr 17 2007 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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814 posts
Wow that Barkskin change is HUGE. Unless it doesn't disrupt cast pushbacks anymore. But if it still does this'll be awesome! Invincible every minute?!?!!? Come on now are me and MrEnglish the only ones excited about this?

I dont think Lifebloom was buffed, just fixed. Same with NG.

FoN is probally getting buffed. Only time will tell.

I'm still taking Naturalist over Subtley. I'm a PvP druid not a raiding one.
#14 Apr 17 2007 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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286 posts
Setai wrote:
Wow that Barkskin change is HUGE. Unless it doesn't disrupt cast pushbacks anymore. But if it still does this'll be awesome! Invincible every minute?!?!!? Come on now are me and MrEnglish the only ones excited about this?


It's not invincible every minute. It's just that it reduces damage by 20% from all sources, not just from physical damage anymore. Down from 15 seconds to 12 seconds, but cooldown changed from 2 minutes (as I understand it) to 1 minute, which I think is overall a positive change.

I'm not complaining about having to put points in resto, I don't mind that, my original spec was going to be 48/0/13, but having to take the extra 5 points out of balance and put them in resto becomes somewhat annoying. 43/0/18 is fine, I suppose if all you're doing is raiding, but it hurts if you want to raid and solo as well. It basically is going to mean no trees and no celestial focus or improved faerie fire (which is nice to have in raids, but something that people often undervalue).

As someone suggested, they need to thin out the resto tree a little (it's 68 points, feral is 56, balance is 58), though I'm not sure what abilities they would take out (and presumably make trainable) or simply make some of the abilities take fewer poins. Someone suggested making subtlety a 3 point talent, and that would help. Making Omen of Clarity trainable would be nice as well.

I don't know, I suppose it will all work out in the end, and that people are right that most of this is just minor fixes. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how it all works out in the end. And respec when I get around to raiding, cause I'm getting the trees asap...cause come on...trees beating people up is funny.
#15 Apr 17 2007 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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814 posts
Oh thanks for the clarification. got all worked up for nothing. I blame it on Blizzard for wording it wrong =)

Quote:
I'm not complaining about having to put points in resto, I don't mind that, my original spec was going to be 48/0/13, but having to take the extra 5 points out of balance and put them in resto becomes somewhat annoying.


ummmm... Why?
#16 Apr 17 2007 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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286 posts
Mostly because it means giving up talents that I'd like to have, or becoming less efficient as a damage dealer. I'd have to lose my trees, and give up celestial focus (which I'm debating anyway) or improved faerie fire (which is fighting for the 3 points with celestial focus) and give up my omen of clarity, which, while obviously mildly useless for raiding, is something I'd like to have for soloing.

The only thing that really hurts losing is the improved faerie fire for raids (it's nice for the physical dps people to miss less, particularly the tank).

I suppose I could give up some damage dealing potential in trade, which would end up decreasing my threat even more, but it just seems like a basic ability that any dps spec should have being placed somewhere that forces the spec to become less efficient. It would be like putting feral instinct 5 points into the balance tree or something. A base ability that is basically required for raiding, but that forces you to put points somewhere that would end up hurting the overall efficiency of your spec.
#17 Apr 17 2007 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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814 posts
Oh your a raiding balance druid. Lol cause I was about to say if you're having trouble between Imp. FF and Celestial Focus as a PvP moonkin, you would have some issues.

Well go ahead and raid. But balance really shines in PvP. We get dwarfed by mages, lock, and hunters in raids.
#18 Apr 17 2007 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
Biggest thing I am happy about is the change in armor on items.

Between the 3 pieces of Heavy Clefthoof Armor & the Thoriumweave Cloak, my armor is about to jump over 3.5 K !!!!!

And my teir 4 gloves are actually a reasonable replacement for my Verdant Gloves!

I hope they get Mangle right. Threatwise, we are great at the moment. I hope the reduced static threat is balanced by the increase in damage so that overall our threat is still the same.
#19 Apr 17 2007 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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592 posts
And no one mentions the decreased MP Costs for shifting?

Not in the notes, but it is on the Test server.

Think it was mentioned on the europe forums also.
#20 Apr 17 2007 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
Nice - that'll help as well. I use quite a few pots because I find myself trapped in caster with MOBs beating on me :)

Like when someone pulls just after I have finished buffing the party/raid! :(
#21 Apr 17 2007 at 10:07 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
And no one mentions the decreased MP Costs for shifting?

Not in the notes, but it is on the Test server.

Think it was mentioned on the europe forums also.


now that you mention it, how much are they decreasing the cost by?
#22 Apr 17 2007 at 10:07 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
And no one mentions the decreased MP Costs for shifting?

Not in the notes, but it is on the Test server.

Think it was mentioned on the europe forums also.


now that you mention it, how much are they decreasing the cost by?
#23 Apr 18 2007 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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3,114 posts
nightmareke wrote:
Quote:
Only complaints are about the druid nerf


Exactly what druid nerf are you talking about?


sorry, typo. Should have been "cyclone" nerf, not drid. No longer can I CC the red pets :(
#24 Apr 18 2007 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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286 posts
Setai wrote:
Oh your a raiding balance druid. Lol cause I was about to say if you're having trouble between Imp. FF and Celestial Focus as a PvP moonkin, you would have some issues.

Well go ahead and raid. But balance really shines in PvP. We get dwarfed by mages, lock, and hunters in raids.


Well, not yet, but I hope to be someday. My druid is only level 32. I've heard about the whole moonkin being awesome in PvP but I've never really PvP'ed before (it's not the kind of thing I'm good at, I don't have the whole twitch factor thing...the truth is I only have 1 honor kill ever, and that was some tauren hunter who attacked my hunter when the tauren was at half life and I wasn't aware I was flagged...stupid mob in SFK...grr), but I imagine it's easier to put together a build where threat isn't a problem.
#25 Apr 18 2007 at 2:15 AM Rating: Good
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8,779 posts
the barkskin change alone is pretty insane. its basically pain suppression, but untalented. instead of once every 3 minutes for 60% damage reduction, its once every minute for 20% damage reduction and 12s duration (4s longer than pain suppression). plus its useable while under the effects of the three strongest counters to druids; fear, cube trap, and stuns. that right there is a major boost to balance viability in pvp, and general survivability of druids overall.

mangle change is good. may hurt tanking, but i doubt it. if worse comes to worst just have a rogue pop EA on the boss every now and then. subtlety change is huge, both in the pvp sense (harder to dispel roots, moonfire, and swarm) and in the pve sense (threat reduction for boomkins).

its not a huge patch, but its mostly full of good. bug fixes are good no matter what class they are for (even the sweeping strikes execute fix, which im none to fond of), and the rest of it is in no way bad. huge buffs for boomkin in pve and smaller, tho no less potent, buffs in pvp.
#26 Apr 18 2007 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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538 posts
Vaeliorin wrote:
Being a Boomkin-in-training, the thing that annoys me is where they have the talent that reduces threat, that it's 10 points into the resto tree, meaning that I'd have to spec at least 15 points (and more likely 18) into the resto tree to have a seriously raid-viable spec.


Well let's put it this way: right now you don't have the possibility to reduce your threat in Moonkin form. Now you have it. What's the problem?

And on top of that it's on the path to get Nature's Swiftness (and OoC).

Apart from that, and minor bug corrections:
- epic flight form: yes, thanks
- +15% damage for mangle bear: yes, thanks
- GotW rank 1 and 2 trainable: yes, thanks

I really don't see a downside to this patch for druids.
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