http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0000000000000000000005500041045010200000003301032500302300501300
what do u guys think of this spec? ive been thinking of going into the survival tree for EW, i find that the proc rate for MT is way too low and its at all worth it to have 5 points into it just for Readiness.
what my concern is, will i be criting enough to make up for the dps when i was as MM?
and does combat experience help in improving more crits, or should i spend the points in MT in hopes of making it proc?
one more thing, i raid, but i do pvp quite a bit, so do u guys think i should spend the points in imp stings so i can drain mana ( which also help in dps with serpent sting ) of the healers while in arena, or should i hv the points in barrage and max imp arcane shot out?
comments please =)
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 10:56am by lisanthus
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comment and help on this survival/mm hybird specFollow
Scholar
21 posts
Ok so first of all I'd like to say I am not flaming you, but there is potentially a few things "wrong" with your build. The main thing is you need to be more specific so we know things that you arent willing to give up...say imp conc shot (some pvpers will never let it go). After that we can work on it better.
So then, my first thing would be ditch imp conc shot lol. Unless you arena only it really wont save you all that often. A regular conc shot should be enough for you to get back to range and frost/freeze trap etc to continue dps'ing. Second is drop CE. Unless you are loaded on agi/int it doesnt help enough. With CE, 500 agi = 10 extra agi, and 300 int = 18 extra int. Now those are good base numbers and you can see the poor bonus results you would get. If anything Careful Aim can be worth it, but you aren't deep enough in the tree. As far as replacing conc shot take whichever you like, efficiency to last longer, or imp mark to make your rogues happy in raids. Finish off imp arcane as it helps shot rotation and ditch imp stings. Any good pvper will dispell the vip sting anyways, so you just wanna make him burn mana and time doing that, it wont often make it to the full extent of the sting. And in pve the extra serpent sting dmg is minimal compared to the mana you are using (could just throw in an extra arcane for the same damage).
Now in survival it is still open game, not enough people have explored survival lately to really have a set spec. I actually like your surv spec alot. It grabs really just what is needed and nothing extra. My only comment would be to grab Thrill of the Hunt with your freed up MM points. If you choose to take efficiency these two will combine to make you last much longer in raid fights.
GL and I hope you enjoy my suggestions.
So then, my first thing would be ditch imp conc shot lol. Unless you arena only it really wont save you all that often. A regular conc shot should be enough for you to get back to range and frost/freeze trap etc to continue dps'ing. Second is drop CE. Unless you are loaded on agi/int it doesnt help enough. With CE, 500 agi = 10 extra agi, and 300 int = 18 extra int. Now those are good base numbers and you can see the poor bonus results you would get. If anything Careful Aim can be worth it, but you aren't deep enough in the tree. As far as replacing conc shot take whichever you like, efficiency to last longer, or imp mark to make your rogues happy in raids. Finish off imp arcane as it helps shot rotation and ditch imp stings. Any good pvper will dispell the vip sting anyways, so you just wanna make him burn mana and time doing that, it wont often make it to the full extent of the sting. And in pve the extra serpent sting dmg is minimal compared to the mana you are using (could just throw in an extra arcane for the same damage).
Now in survival it is still open game, not enough people have explored survival lately to really have a set spec. I actually like your surv spec alot. It grabs really just what is needed and nothing extra. My only comment would be to grab Thrill of the Hunt with your freed up MM points. If you choose to take efficiency these two will combine to make you last much longer in raid fights.
GL and I hope you enjoy my suggestions.
4 posts
sorry if i didnt make myself clear, i raid quite often and only do arena pvp whenever there isnt a raid and the ocassional farming when my team mate isnt around, yup
your suggestions are very good, and i like it, thanks.
and u are right about imp. stings, so im ditching it.
one of the reason i thought of having careful aim is i figure it would stack with lightning reflexes, having 18% extra agi? or is it 15% x 500 + 2% x 575?
and after playing in so many arena games, i find imp conc really does stun every once in awhile, either allowing me to gain distance or to burst a few more shots without chasing. so i would say im once of those stubborn pvpers lol =P
concerning thrill of the hunt, is it really worth it to hv points in it when it only applys to yello criticals, mainly arcane, steady and multi. being surv i know it will crit lots, but does it really help a lot? would it be more worth it to have points in barrage or efficiency instead?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0000000000000000000005500041005013000000003301032500302300531300
i made some tweaks here after reading your reply, i thought it would be better to hv barrage rather than maxing imp arc since its only a .2s diff and i am having thrill of the hunt. but i might tweak it further to have efficiency and what not. and again, or to hv the remaining pts in MT in hopes of it procing, i have read that many find it hard to proc, and if they were to go into MT they would get readiness to spam rapid fire for it to proc, but scatter shot is too much to give up since i pvp
what do u think? is it bad?
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 11:41am by lisanthus
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 11:43am by lisanthus
your suggestions are very good, and i like it, thanks.
and u are right about imp. stings, so im ditching it.
one of the reason i thought of having careful aim is i figure it would stack with lightning reflexes, having 18% extra agi? or is it 15% x 500 + 2% x 575?
and after playing in so many arena games, i find imp conc really does stun every once in awhile, either allowing me to gain distance or to burst a few more shots without chasing. so i would say im once of those stubborn pvpers lol =P
concerning thrill of the hunt, is it really worth it to hv points in it when it only applys to yello criticals, mainly arcane, steady and multi. being surv i know it will crit lots, but does it really help a lot? would it be more worth it to have points in barrage or efficiency instead?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0000000000000000000005500041005013000000003301032500302300531300
i made some tweaks here after reading your reply, i thought it would be better to hv barrage rather than maxing imp arc since its only a .2s diff and i am having thrill of the hunt. but i might tweak it further to have efficiency and what not. and again, or to hv the remaining pts in MT in hopes of it procing, i have read that many find it hard to proc, and if they were to go into MT they would get readiness to spam rapid fire for it to proc, but scatter shot is too much to give up since i pvp
what do u think? is it bad?
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 11:41am by lisanthus
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 11:43am by lisanthus
Scholar
21 posts
Yea, I was survival for a few weeks after I hit 70 and MT does not proc often enough for 5 pts. I would not bother with it. I am most likely going back to survival today, but I will definitely not be taking MT, and scatter shot is just too valuable to any build. As far as your other doubts, they are valid. Like I said, some people just like imp. conc. shot so keep it if it makes you happy. As far as CE, I forgot about Lightning Reflexes when I was looking at your spec. You now have me torn, but I would still place those points in Thrill of the Hunt. I did the calculations and either way the percentages stack it is like a 2 agi difference. So either way you are still only getting 10-12 agi from CE. And yes, Thrill of the Hunt will be worth it. With most shots costing 200+ mana at 70, hunters are doing everything they can to keep their mana up in raids. I often have to keep Viper Regen up to minimize my downtime. Arcane, Multi, and Steady will be your main shots in your rotation and with your higher crit % you should be seeing some nice mana saves from it. As far as barrage, it is a great talent for an MM spec hunter with loads of attk pwr. In your case I see the returns being minimal, especially without the extra chance to crit multi...But I also don't see anything else "great" to replace it with. So that's another one that if you like it, keep it.
4 posts
pvp wise, how do u think this spec would do?
i have read that readiness actually can do good CC and be good in pvp, but i am just not happy about spending points in MT
i have read that readiness actually can do good CC and be good in pvp, but i am just not happy about spending points in MT
One thing you might consider is taking points our of survival instincts and putting them into deterrence/copunterstrike. During my first few months I played survival, and those were amazing to have.
You also might want to redistribute the humanoid slaying points, or at least one of them. savage strikes might be useful in a mob scenewhen you want to do some damage just before you get your distance again.
You also might want to redistribute the humanoid slaying points, or at least one of them. savage strikes might be useful in a mob scenewhen you want to do some damage just before you get your distance again.
For arena, I'd say deterrence is a must - I would drop points out of EW if your build is pvp focused as well. Imo, 0/30/31 would suit your purposes best. You've wasted a lot of points which imo arent useful for arena. If I was speccing purely for arena, my spec would probably be as it is there - or what it is on my armory page. Depends really how big a nerf to damage it is. As it is right now, I'm enjoy silencing shot and I doubt I would spec differently to it.
Your spec has many of the staples of a SV build, but you lack any real talents to boost your PvE utility.
Imp Arcane Shot? Worthless. Get GftT and Rapid Killing.
If you're going to raid, Imp Conc Shot is worthless; get Efficiency.
Imp Stings is only worthwhile in arena, because it makes it hard on Pallies/Priests to dispel.
Combat Experience is worthless.
You need 2 more points in Entrapment, period.
You need Deterrence if you plan to PvP in arenas.
Also, Clever Traps has no effect on the duration of Freeze Traps in PvP; it does still effect damage and Frost Trap duration, though.
Imp Arcane Shot? Worthless. Get GftT and Rapid Killing.
If you're going to raid, Imp Conc Shot is worthless; get Efficiency.
Imp Stings is only worthwhile in arena, because it makes it hard on Pallies/Priests to dispel.
Combat Experience is worthless.
You need 2 more points in Entrapment, period.
You need Deterrence if you plan to PvP in arenas.
Also, Clever Traps has no effect on the duration of Freeze Traps in PvP; it does still effect damage and Frost Trap duration, though.
Scholar
21 posts
Those are some good arena ideas, btu as the OP said he mostly raids, and just arenas when there isn't a raid. So I wouldn't recommend those changes for him. They are excellent in Arena but almost worthless in PVE.
Theophany posted while i was typing this, so this doesn't regard his post, he has good points.
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 3:10pm by Bowflexiswhoa
Theophany posted while i was typing this, so this doesn't regard his post, he has good points.
Edited, Apr 17th 2007 3:10pm by Bowflexiswhoa
Oh sorry, I thought you said you were primarily arena and secondary raiding. For the raiding, you either need 41 points in beast mastery or 41 points in marksmanship imo. Since all hunters are really needed for in raids is misdirection pulling and dpsing, survival doesnt really pack the punch which MM or BM do and its trap abilities are kind of wasted in raiding, since again their damage is rather poor and in no way makes up for the damage you lose by speccing deeply into survival.
Also, mana consumption is rarely an issue if you a) get mage water to use between each fight, b) use aspect of the viper on long fights, or c) buy pvp mana pots - at 2 BG tokens each its easy to get loads of them and with them you probably wont go oom. Even in the rare cases which you would go oom as MM/BM, the extra damage from survival by not being oom wouldnt make up for the whole rest of the raid or fight.
Also, mana consumption is rarely an issue if you a) get mage water to use between each fight, b) use aspect of the viper on long fights, or c) buy pvp mana pots - at 2 BG tokens each its easy to get loads of them and with them you probably wont go oom. Even in the rare cases which you would go oom as MM/BM, the extra damage from survival by not being oom wouldnt make up for the whole rest of the raid or fight.
Zysac, I didn't even look at your build before, but if you honestly think that's a good arena build, have fun in the 1200-1300 bracket.
No Imp Stings, no Entrapment, 1/2 (only?) in Survival Instincts, and Wyvern Sting?
I'm assuming you'd be using a cat/boar for PvP as well, right?
Arena builds need these staples if you're serious about it: Endurance Training, Lethal Shots, Mortal Shots, Scatter Shot, Entrapment, Survivalist, Surefooted, Deterrence, and Survival Instincts.
Better yet, just look at Reznap's armory profile. She has the best MM setup. I'm not currently specced for arena, but I'm certainly specced for PvP. All I'd need is Imp Stings and I'd be all set for arena.
And if you're not using a scorpid in arena, you may as well not use a pet.
No Imp Stings, no Entrapment, 1/2 (only?) in Survival Instincts, and Wyvern Sting?
I'm assuming you'd be using a cat/boar for PvP as well, right?
Arena builds need these staples if you're serious about it: Endurance Training, Lethal Shots, Mortal Shots, Scatter Shot, Entrapment, Survivalist, Surefooted, Deterrence, and Survival Instincts.
Better yet, just look at Reznap's armory profile. She has the best MM setup. I'm not currently specced for arena, but I'm certainly specced for PvP. All I'd need is Imp Stings and I'd be all set for arena.
And if you're not using a scorpid in arena, you may as well not use a pet.
4 posts
ok, so i respeced survival, but found it a bit disappointing, with only 1650AP and 25% crit rate.
with 528agi overall after talents added in, i find the crit rate to be very low still. i havent really tested it out, but i seem to be doing around the same dps as i did when i was marks (which is such a relief)
now is it a very gear issue? if so do u guys have any suggestions as to what gear i should go for, and where to get them. mainly i get that AP isnt really suited for the survival tree. so it'd be nice to know whether i should concentrate on agi or crit ratings, or a very good mix of both?
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jubei'Thos&n=Lisanthus
this is my current gear, not very impressive i know, some enchants and gems hv yet to be tuned in for surv spec, but still, have u guys any suggestions on which ones i should throw out and where to get new ones
with 528agi overall after talents added in, i find the crit rate to be very low still. i havent really tested it out, but i seem to be doing around the same dps as i did when i was marks (which is such a relief)
now is it a very gear issue? if so do u guys have any suggestions as to what gear i should go for, and where to get them. mainly i get that AP isnt really suited for the survival tree. so it'd be nice to know whether i should concentrate on agi or crit ratings, or a very good mix of both?
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jubei'Thos&n=Lisanthus
this is my current gear, not very impressive i know, some enchants and gems hv yet to be tuned in for surv spec, but still, have u guys any suggestions on which ones i should throw out and where to get new ones
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