Having just dinged 68 I am considering respecing to move talent points around. About 95% of my talent points are right where I want them but I'm having a dilema regarding whether to put points into VT and get the extra DoT and 5% mana return to me and the others in the party or go with Divine Spirit and Prayer of Spirit which will increase player spirit by 40. DS (Rank 4) / Prayer of Spirit (Rank 1) is 25 mp/5 outside of the 5 sec rule. Very nice buff that can help keep down on mana drinking when not in combat.
When I add up the normal shadow damage I can deal, 190/ tick for MF, about 290/tick for SW:P and estimated 250/tick for VT adds up to ~730/tick. So if I keep VT and SW:P up on the target and just continually use MF it should return about 36 mana a tick. Impressive numbers, yes, but only when in combat and primarily when fighting bosses. Trash mobs are often dead to quick to really gain any real benefit IMO from VT.
Has anyone tried both of these scenarios and what were your thoughts?
VT Build
DS Build
- Azoth
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since you focus on shadow tree more....
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=btMhzhxZZxMgzMtRhtVo
above is my current build. i highly recommend you max out misery, sw:p and shadow weaving. misery helps vt.
to me, mana regeneration during boss/trash fights is more important that out-of-combat mana regen. i can always sit down and drink. if my combat mana regen is good enough from vt, i dont really have to worry about downtime. besides, in an at least decent instances group, time between mob pulls is pretty minimal that the mana regen benefit from divine spirit is not significant (not saying it's not useful).
some shadow priests like to spam rank 1 sw:p on bosses to stack shadow vulnerability before they start casting max rank damage spells.
if i am against mobs who die very quickly, i usually just cast vampiric embrace + mindflay. both are pretty cheap mana spells.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=btMhzhxZZxMgzMtRhtVo
above is my current build. i highly recommend you max out misery, sw:p and shadow weaving. misery helps vt.
to me, mana regeneration during boss/trash fights is more important that out-of-combat mana regen. i can always sit down and drink. if my combat mana regen is good enough from vt, i dont really have to worry about downtime. besides, in an at least decent instances group, time between mob pulls is pretty minimal that the mana regen benefit from divine spirit is not significant (not saying it's not useful).
some shadow priests like to spam rank 1 sw:p on bosses to stack shadow vulnerability before they start casting max rank damage spells.
if i am against mobs who die very quickly, i usually just cast vampiric embrace + mindflay. both are pretty cheap mana spells.
Looking at your talents you're kind of everywhere, and some of the better talents in Shadow you aren't even considering. Regardless it would help if we had a little more info on what roll you play here. From what it sounds like you are running instances most of your time, but in instances are you MH? OH? DPS only? And are you wanting to stay shadow at 70 or are you switching to something else?
Assuming you're just DPS, I would say go with VT and a little more into shadow for some of the better talents you've passed up. If it's group situations all the way you may want to consider something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=rVMh0hZZxGGtrpRhtVo
Less threat, faster fade, silence, all the DoTs, etc. Darkness, VE, and Misery are VERY important in group situations, because they count for EVERYONE. You run something with a Lock, and you both will be piling up the damage and healing on everyone. The thing with PoS is no one really expects a Shadow Priest to have it, points are better spent elsewhere as a Shadow Priest. Healing Priests will sometimes sacrifice holy talents to get this, and I agree they should.
Assuming you're not DPS only, and want to go with more of a support roll you may want to think about the holy tree a little further. Shadow Priests can heal, they can support, they can DPS. But their main cup-o-tea is DPS. If you're wanting to support everyone more(which it kind of sounds like you do) you may want to think about a Disc/Holy build, something kind of like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=dxg00hxzZfx0ffMqVbV
Again, I'm not sure what you're going for. Hope my opinion helped
:EDIT:
This is the build I'm going for as I lvl:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVMh0hZZxMGtMpRhtEo
At 70 I'll be going Holy for the 10man, with a build pretty much like I showed you.
Just thought I'd share.
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 12:01pm by TacticalRage
Assuming you're just DPS, I would say go with VT and a little more into shadow for some of the better talents you've passed up. If it's group situations all the way you may want to consider something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=rVMh0hZZxGGtrpRhtVo
Less threat, faster fade, silence, all the DoTs, etc. Darkness, VE, and Misery are VERY important in group situations, because they count for EVERYONE. You run something with a Lock, and you both will be piling up the damage and healing on everyone. The thing with PoS is no one really expects a Shadow Priest to have it, points are better spent elsewhere as a Shadow Priest. Healing Priests will sometimes sacrifice holy talents to get this, and I agree they should.
Assuming you're not DPS only, and want to go with more of a support roll you may want to think about the holy tree a little further. Shadow Priests can heal, they can support, they can DPS. But their main cup-o-tea is DPS. If you're wanting to support everyone more(which it kind of sounds like you do) you may want to think about a Disc/Holy build, something kind of like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=dxg00hxzZfx0ffMqVbV
Again, I'm not sure what you're going for. Hope my opinion helped
:EDIT:
This is the build I'm going for as I lvl:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVMh0hZZxMGtMpRhtEo
At 70 I'll be going Holy for the 10man, with a build pretty much like I showed you.
Just thought I'd share.
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 12:01pm by TacticalRage
28 posts
I would go for VT depending on what you do most of - but I would also change your build a little to get misery maxed out. If you're only getting 5% total mana back - then why not get all the extra damage you can, would give you about 200 on your mind flay and 220 on your SW:P ticks. Help you be a little more mana efficient AND get a tad more back over the same span of time. I can't see ever passing up misery really 5% adds up fast. If you're not PvPing a ton, you can easily get the five talent points too. Drop Imp psychic scream, and silence and also drop two from shadow focus. At 68 that's really all you need anyway. Just my two cents!
-Monky
-Monky
Instance shadow, solo shadow, PvP shadow? Huge differences. My guess would be instance.
Bare minimum 14 in Disc and 41 in Shadow. I'm running 14/0/47. Max Imp SWP, Shadow Affinity, Shadow Focus (if you're raiding, if not at least 3), Shadow Weaving, Misery, Focused Mind, VT, Darkness (this)
Get more +dmg. You appear to be favoring crit and spirit more than your should; they're nice little bonuses, not something you actually try and get on your gear (at least for instancing).
Bare minimum 14 in Disc and 41 in Shadow. I'm running 14/0/47. Max Imp SWP, Shadow Affinity, Shadow Focus (if you're raiding, if not at least 3), Shadow Weaving, Misery, Focused Mind, VT, Darkness (this)
Get more +dmg. You appear to be favoring crit and spirit more than your should; they're nice little bonuses, not something you actually try and get on your gear (at least for instancing).
Thanks for all the well thought out replies. I currently level solo or with a few friends for group quests. I have rarely done any instances since getting to the Outlands, and in fact have only run Ramparts once. I will be running more instances to complete several quests I have, for rep building as well as trying to get some of the better drops to build up my +damage.
lsfreak, Yes, 400 is pretty low, but I always make sure I use my trinkets when casting MB for that little extra punch. I wasn't specifically going for +crit but most of the non-healing quest rewards seemed to have +crit in addition to +damage. It was a nice bonus but I wasn't intentionally trying to build a +crit gear list. The +Spirit is also really nice. With ShadowFiend, Inner Focus and a fairly high spirit I ALMOST NEVER have to stop and drink when questing or grinding.
TacticalRage, When you say "Looking at your talents you're kind of everywhere" do you mean my current talent selection? If so you are correct, I made some dumb mistakes with the options I selected, which I am trying to avoid doing again. When I hit 70, I may switch to Holy/Disc or Disc/Holy as I enjoy that aspect of being a priest. 70 seems so far away right now so I'm not going to decide that until I get there. :)
I'm just about fininished with all the quests in Nagrand and will be heading to Blade's Edge unless Netherstorm/Shadowmoon Valley makes more since. I'll check out the quest rewards and drops from the different areas and see what makes the most sense.
I have decided to go with VT as it seems to help out the group the most and an extra DoT can't hurt. I will also be putting only enough points into Disc to get IF as I do love that talent and 3/3 Meditation to help with mana conservation and the rest into shadow. Personally I could live without Imp. Scream, not like you can use it in an instance, but I want to have Silence. Very nice when you can stop a mob from casting a heal on themselves or a boss during a fight. With the 2.1 patch Silence is listed as being modified to last for 6 seconds instead of 5 so I think I will keep it.
Alright... time to go drop 100g
- Azoth
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 5:35pm by TheRealAzoth
lsfreak, Yes, 400 is pretty low, but I always make sure I use my trinkets when casting MB for that little extra punch. I wasn't specifically going for +crit but most of the non-healing quest rewards seemed to have +crit in addition to +damage. It was a nice bonus but I wasn't intentionally trying to build a +crit gear list. The +Spirit is also really nice. With ShadowFiend, Inner Focus and a fairly high spirit I ALMOST NEVER have to stop and drink when questing or grinding.
TacticalRage, When you say "Looking at your talents you're kind of everywhere" do you mean my current talent selection? If so you are correct, I made some dumb mistakes with the options I selected, which I am trying to avoid doing again. When I hit 70, I may switch to Holy/Disc or Disc/Holy as I enjoy that aspect of being a priest. 70 seems so far away right now so I'm not going to decide that until I get there. :)
I'm just about fininished with all the quests in Nagrand and will be heading to Blade's Edge unless Netherstorm/Shadowmoon Valley makes more since. I'll check out the quest rewards and drops from the different areas and see what makes the most sense.
I have decided to go with VT as it seems to help out the group the most and an extra DoT can't hurt. I will also be putting only enough points into Disc to get IF as I do love that talent and 3/3 Meditation to help with mana conservation and the rest into shadow. Personally I could live without Imp. Scream, not like you can use it in an instance, but I want to have Silence. Very nice when you can stop a mob from casting a heal on themselves or a boss during a fight. With the 2.1 patch Silence is listed as being modified to last for 6 seconds instead of 5 so I think I will keep it.
Alright... time to go drop 100g
- Azoth
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 5:35pm by TheRealAzoth
I'd go with VT. The DS build kind of makes you an OK healer and an OK shadow priest. Groups are either looking for a healing priest or a shadow priest but not somebody who is decent at both.
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