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Cobra reflexes and AvoidanceFollow

#1 Apr 20 2007 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
So, how many of the king B fanatics are going to be dropping their pet if Cobra Reflexes is trainable?

I know I will be :).

I plan to grab a Wolf,for there -damage move, How about you guys?

And, to all the endgame raiders, will Avoidance make pets viable in raids?


Edited, Apr 20th 2007 9:36pm by FFGamer
#2 Apr 21 2007 at 12:28 AM Rating: Decent
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avoidance will make a nice step, exactly how viable pets will be, we'll see soon enough.
#3 Apr 21 2007 at 2:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Avoidance + new Mend Pet mechanics = BM is top DPS tree, period.

Add in Cobra Reflexes (which is trainable), and BM is a powerhouse.

I'm not really a fan of Kill Command, even with it off GCD. Arcane/Multishot do more damage, though if I'm running around in PvP, I won't say no to a free KC.
#4 Apr 21 2007 at 4:17 AM Rating: Decent
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you're very enthousiastic theo =P
i'm not that convinced yet, but i hope it will make BM that good, as it is more fun to play then MM =P
#5 Apr 21 2007 at 4:45 AM Rating: Decent
If anyone is interested, cobra reflexes costs 20 TP and avoidance rank 2 25 TP.

Avoidance will certainly make pets more viable, but whether it helps the avoid cleave which isnt classed as an AoE move normally I dont know. A lot of fights arent just unfriendly to pets because of aoes, but the fight as a whole. Gruul for example is unchanged, pets do next to no damage there because they become stoned and dont shatter so they're basically stunned for 75% of the fight. But its definately a step forward for pet users.
#6 Apr 21 2007 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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i dont know how gruul's stun thing works, but i'd rather see my pet stunned then the rogue next to it.
and if its an AoE thing, they now get 50% chance to avoid it, making pets a lot more valuable.
#7 Apr 21 2007 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Theophany the Sly wrote:
I'm not really a fan of Kill Command, even with it off GCD. Arcane/Multishot do more damage, though if I'm running around in PvP, I won't say no to a free KC.


The damage, while nice, would be miniscule compared to an Arcane Shot or Multi-Shot for Marksmen. For Beast Masters it's a completely different thing. Being a Beast Master I have already experienced the thrill of popping my Outland trinket, Bestial Wrath and watching my pet spam crits of 500+ damage every 1.5 seconds. Kill Command, as I see it, is basically an almost guaranteed Frenzy for Beast Masters.

Making the level 50 trinket thing nearly useless (good thing I took the eye).
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#8 Apr 21 2007 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
i dont know how gruul's stun thing works, but i'd rather see my pet stunned then the rogue next to it.
and if its an AoE thing, they now get 50% chance to avoid it, making pets a lot more valuable.


Well.. it basically stuns every person in the cave gradually over 5 seconds, and when the 5 seconds are up you turn to stone and shatter, dealing very heavy damage to anyone within 15 yards of you. To stop pets from killing melee, blizz made it so that pets would get stoned but wont shatter, basically they stay stoned for 50% of the fight. I doubt avoidance will prevent a move like gronn lord's grasp, but hey I'm not complaining. Avoidance is still a pretty nice buff considering. Combined with imp mend pet its a nice patch for pets indeed.
#9 Apr 21 2007 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Zysac wrote:
If anyone is interested, cobra reflexes costs 20 TP and avoidance rank 2 25 TP.

You're right about the avoidance TP cost, but according to petopia, Cobra Reflexes actually cost 15 TP.

And another note, nobody said this yet, but Cobra Reflexes increases your pets attack speed by 30%, and although it says damage done is reduced, your pet actually gets roughly a 12.5% DPS increase.
And avoidance, petopia confused me on this one, but here is what they said:
Petopia wrote:
Avoidance
IMPORTANT: This information was gathered from the Public Test Realm. It may change before going live.
Increases your pet's chance to avoid area of effect attacks by an additional X%.
Can be learned by all pets. Taught at pet trainer.


Rank 1: Pet Level 30 (15 TP). Reduces the damage your pet takes from area of effect attacks by an additional 25%.
Rank 2: Pet Level 60 (25 TP). Reduces the damage your pet takes from area of effect attacks by an additional 50%.

Notes:
Note the two different descriptions for this skill. One ("increases chance to avoid") comes from the pet trainer; the other ("reduces the damage") from the skill after it is learned. At this point, it is unclear which is more accurate.

It says there are two different descriptions for this skill which pretty much confuses me =P
#10 Apr 21 2007 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:

The damage, while nice, would be miniscule compared to an Arcane Shot or Multi-Shot for Marksmen. For Beast Masters it's a completely different thing. Being a Beast Master I have already experienced the thrill of popping my Outland trinket, Bestial Wrath and watching my pet spam crits of 500+ damage every 1.5 seconds. Kill Command, as I see it, is basically an almost guaranteed Frenzy for Beast Masters.

Making the level 50 trinket thing nearly useless (good thing I took the eye).


Good thing you took the eye, which has a dozen upgrades, instead of the tooth which is still the only one of its kind.

KC is indeed a potent ability for a Beast Master, and I find that it can often crit for upwards of 750 with non-instance gear, even going as high as 1300 once. Quite efficient for a piddly 75 mana.

Edited, Apr 21st 2007 3:12pm by Sayis
#11 Apr 21 2007 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
but whether it helps the avoid cleave which isnt classed as an AoE move normally I dont know


I saw somewhere that Cleave specifically is being changed to a front-only AoE.

Then, I remembered Theo posting (I think it was Theo) that a use for EotB is to position your pet behind a boss!

Not sure if that helps - or will work. But it's something to consider. GL!

#12 Apr 21 2007 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Arthas wrote:
And another note, nobody said this yet, but Cobra Reflexes increases your pets attack speed by 30%, and although it says damage done is reduced, your pet actually gets roughly a 12.5% DPS increase.
Other advantages to Cobra Reflexes are increased Frenzy and Ferocious Inspiration procs. Those will further increase Pet damage, and in the case of Ferocious Inspiration the entire group will be getting the +3% damage bonus (assuming a 3/3 Talent build of FI).
#13 Apr 21 2007 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
and oh..by the way Aethian....Theo is BM now...!!!! lol
#14 Apr 21 2007 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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IponemaGirl wrote:
Quote:
but whether it helps the avoid cleave which isnt classed as an AoE move normally I dont know


I saw somewhere that Cleave specifically is being changed to a front-only AoE.

Then, I remembered Theo posting (I think it was Theo) that a use for EotB is to position your pet behind a boss!

Not sure if that helps - or will work. But it's something to consider. GL!

Yeah, Cleave is being changed to a cone attack, so get that EotB spell up on one of your main bars if you raid!

And yes, I am BM now. Smiley: tongue
#15 Apr 21 2007 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Sayis wrote:
Good thing you took the eye, which has a dozen upgrades, instead of the tooth which is still the only one of its kind.


Because a guaranteed critical pet hit is worth a trinket slot.. when?

For PvE I have the Eye and the Breadth equipped, enabling me to cycle between them to keep the attack power bonus up pretty much all the time. The Tooth is nice for proccing Frenzy, but for a MM Hunter it's worth **** all.

Having a unique trinket is great and everything. Just a shame you can't use it if you respec.
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#16 Apr 21 2007 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't be worried about Sayis respeccing. He's been BM since before Jesus was around.
#17 Apr 21 2007 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I wonder which version of Avoidance is correct? ... I think I may actually like the 50% reduced damage better, since it'll always work (rather than hoping to win the flip of a coin).

Mazra wrote:
Because a guaranteed critical pet hit is worth a trinket slot.. when?

For PvE I have the Eye and the Breadth equipped, enabling me to cycle between them to keep the attack power bonus up pretty much all the time. The Tooth is nice for proccing Frenzy, but for a MM Hunter it's worth @#%^ all.

Having a unique trinket is great and everything. Just a shame you can't use it if you respec.


When? All the time. I still have that thing equipped at 70 (and it'll be even better once it's fixed with the patch). Since it has the same length cooldown as Bestial Wrath, I typically activate them both at the same time, guaranteeing that, first of all, the trinket gets a BW crit, and second of all, that Karil always enters BM with Frenzy active. The DPS increase is substantial, even at 70, because the nature of the trinket scales with level, even more so when it's reverted to an automatic crit instead of +crit rating.

You still use the Devilsaur Eye? But what level are you now?

Of course, you already have Bladefist's Breadth... but what about the Terokkar Tablet of Precision? The Uniting Charm (Ogre Mauler's Badge to the Hordies)? There's also the Ancient Draenei War Talisman, can't forget that. Core of Ar'kelos is a cinch to obtain once you get high enough for the quests.

If you don't want quested items, there's the Slayer's Crest in Naxx. The Abacus of Violent Odds drops in Mechanar... a little different but would have a similar effect. If you like rep-grinding, there's the Bloodlust Brooch.

And if you just feel like throwing some money around, you can snag yourself a Nightseye Panther Figurine.

You mention respeccing away from BM...but there's so many upgrades to the Eye that you'd never even notice it wasn't there.

Now...what if you respecced to BM?

... Did anyone besides Cheyenne ever consider that?

Edited, Apr 21st 2007 6:06pm by Sayis
#18 Apr 21 2007 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I got the trinket at level 50. Nothing lasts forever. I'm level 63 now and still using it because I haven't received better yet. If I do receive better, why shouldn't I archive it in the trash bin? You make it sound like throwing away trinkets is an unforgivable sin.

Sure the trinket is unique and useful at level 70 if you're BM spec'd and put all your money on the first pet hit being a crit. I had much use of +150 attack power throughout the last 13 levels. Frenzy procs twice a fight anyways.
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#19 Apr 22 2007 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
Well.. I still havent even finished the level 50 hunter quest so no problemos there for me ;D
#20 Apr 22 2007 at 7:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I got the trinket at level 50. Nothing lasts forever. I'm level 63 now and still using it because I haven't received better yet. If I do receive better, why shouldn't I archive it in the trash bin? You make it sound like throwing away trinkets is an unforgivable sin.

Sure the trinket is unique and useful at level 70 if you're BM spec'd and put all your money on the first pet hit being a crit. I had much use of +150 attack power throughout the last 13 levels. Frenzy procs twice a fight anyways.

It's not being said that picking that trinket was bad. But the thing is, the eye, while much better than the tooth at the level you get it, does not scale. Their are a ton of upgrades to the eye, while the tooth, like it has already been said, is unique and always scales with you. No matter how many expansions, you can be over level 3,000 and the tooth will still scale. Personally, I think that all the rewards from the level 50 class sets should scale, like the tooth. I think the eye should have been a Marksmanship/Survival thing that gives you [not your pet] a 100% chance to crit.
#21 Apr 22 2007 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, and as for the OP's question. I personally had King B. LONG before he had cobra reflexs just because I loved the skin. Heh, I even gave up Broken Tooth [which took three days of camping to tame] to get King B. I abandoned him at level 66 in order to try out new pets. Right now I plan on taming Trachela, probaly the most beatiful creature in the game, and there is no arguement, it is the coolest carrion bird =P. I guess Aethin's constant bragging about his birdy has grown on me =). Too bad though, they made her two-headed green mate untameable.
#22 Apr 23 2007 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
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ArthasTheBetrayer wrote:
Right now I plan on taming Trachela, probaly the most beautiful creature in the game, and there is no arguement, it is the coolest carrion bird =P. I guess Æthien's constant bragging about his birdy has grown on me =)

what, me? bragging? i'm just stating facts ;)
and i am not alone, just watch the Azuregos Solo vid.
Carrion Birds FTW!
#23 Apr 23 2007 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
Theophany the Sly wrote:
Avoidance + new Mend Pet mechanics = BM is top DPS tree, period.

Add in Cobra Reflexes (which is trainable), and BM is a powerhouse.

I'm not really a fan of Kill Command, even with it off GCD. Arcane/Multishot do more damage, though if I'm running around in PvP, I won't say no to a free KC.


I don't think I agree with this assessment. With the top gear, SV is good (more than 25% crit and 500 agi), and even my MM build destroys every BM hunter in our guild in Kara as far as DPS is concerned. I'm still not sure a slight reduction in AOE damage is going to tip the scales. Look at, say, the Maiden fight... pet dies in 30 seconds if you're allowed to bring it out at all (chain lightening sucks, so we take pets out). If the pet dies in 60 seconds instead of 30, is it still a big difference? I doubt it. I'll hold onto my spec until I'm embarrased by the DPS meters.
#24 Apr 23 2007 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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rappoccio wrote:

I don't think I agree with this assessment. With the top gear, SV is good (more than 25% crit and 500 agi), and even my MM build destroys every BM hunter in our guild in Kara as far as DPS is concerned. I'm still not sure a slight reduction in AOE damage is going to tip the scales. Look at, say, the Maiden fight... pet dies in 30 seconds if you're allowed to bring it out at all (chain lightening sucks, so we take pets out). If the pet dies in 60 seconds instead of 30, is it still a big difference? I doubt it. I'll hold onto my spec until I'm embarrased by the DPS meters.


"Until I'm embarrassed by the DPS meters."

So, out of curiousity, when you look at these DPS meters, do they show Hunter and pet separately? Because if they don't... it may add your pet's damage to your own, but no other pet is counted at all.

DPS isn't the be-all, end-all for a hunter, but a BM hunter's damage often exceeds MM, and when well-managed can be on par, even in places like Kara. It is challenges set for 20-40 man raids where a pet has extreme difficulty. Where a 5-10 man group can survive, a pet can hold his own well.
#25 Apr 23 2007 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
Sayis wrote:


"Until I'm embarrassed by the DPS meters."

So, out of curiousity, when you look at these DPS meters, do they show Hunter and pet separately? Because if they don't... it may add your pet's damage to your own, but no other pet is counted at all.


I've done it both ways (counting pet as your damage and not). In my experience MM and SV always comes out better than BM after a night of raiding.

Quote:

DPS isn't the be-all, end-all for a hunter,


I'm not saying it is. For raiding (even now) you can DPS, crowd-control, direct aggro, and off-tank with your pet. However, the quote was that

Quote:

BM is top DPS tree, period.


which, in my experience, is not true.
#26 Apr 23 2007 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Avoidance + new Mend Pet mechanics = BM is top DPS tree, period.


Did you take into account the fact that these are changes which have yet to be implemented? Meaning that after you add in the buffs to BM (avoidance, less cast MP, and cobra reflexes) BM hunters will do a lot more DPS both from themselves and from their pet.
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