Best Catform DPS Rotation?Follow

Ok, I know the best way to use the catform abilities generally need a mob who is not immune to bleed effects, so the 3 or 4 dots you can put up will work.

But what's the best rotation for mobs who ARE immune? Such as most of the stuff in Karazhan?

I would assume that it would be to spam shred (backstab), rather than Mangle, correct? If you do or don't have the talent shredding attacks? ( -18 energy on shred)

Every once in a while there will be too many tanks, and I'll be able to catform DPS. Since most of the mobs are bleed-immune, I feel that I'm lacking a huge part of my DPS. Help me out!!!

Mangle every 10 seconds.
Shred the rest of the time.
Faerie Fire when you can.
Cower
FB at 5 Combo points, tho there's some heavy debate as to the value of FB (Because of the complete energy drain).

/end. :P

I've noticed a 50-some damage difference between Shred and Mangle. Even with talents Shred will cost 42 energy which is an odd number considering energy is regenerated in 20's every 2 seconds which is why you can get three Mangle attacks in with only global cooldown.

40 energy, 1.5 sec break, 40 energy, 1.5 sec break, 40 energy = 120 energy in 3 seconds. It's doable because the energy regen ticks after 2 seconds, generating the extra 20 energy needed for the third Mangle.

With Shred you would have:

42 energy, 1.5 sec break, 42 energy, 1.5 sec break, 42 energy = 126 energy in 3 seconds. Not doable since with the energy regen tick you'd still be 6 energy short.

I'm not a genius so my math might be off, but to me it looks as if two Shreds should do the same damage as three Mangles. Haven't seen that happen lately. Of course, I have the Mangle bonus idol equipped, giving me 23 extra damage on Mangle.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2007 3:06am by Mazra

Mazra, Shred only tops Mangle if A: The Mangle Debuff is on the Target, and B: You have Shredding Attacks.

Assuming a 200 damage base you get:

Shred: 225%+405 = 855 + 30% (30% Damage bonus cuz of Mangle) = 1111.5

Mangle: 160%+264 = 584

Toss in Crits and your at:

Shred 1111.5 = 2556.45

vs

Mangle 584 = 1343.2





Edited, Apr 22nd 2007 1:10pm by ItharrAlexander

lessee... 20 energy every 2 seconds means 600 energy per minute. Let's ignore finishers and crits right now.

That's 15 mangles in a pure mangle run
mangle debuffs for 15 seconds so you need 4 mangles in a minute, and get 10 shreds
heck, let's add slop, 5 mangles and 9 shreds

15 mangles: 584*15 (from above numbers) = 8760 damage per minute
5 mangles and 9 shreds: 584*5+1111*9=12919 damage per minute

146 dps vs. 215 dps

GCD is irrelevant because energy regen time is far greater. 4 seconds for a mangle or 4-6 seconds for a shred.

Now if you're FBing, you'll be at 0 energy much more often, putting shred 6 seconds away much more commonly. That could slow things down in a full rotation. Of course that also depends on crits.

That extra 2 energy only matters every 10th shred if you assume no misses and no finishers.

EDIT: also with untalented shred,
5 mangles and 6 shreds totals 9586 damage, or 159 dps. Still higher than pure mangles.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2007 3:21pm by selebrin

So getting Shredding Attacks and using a Shred rotation is definitely more beneficial for group PvE. But even without the Shredding Attacks talent it's still better using Shred while Mangle debuff is up to increase DPS?

I might just have to redo my talents now.

Interestingly enough, FB doesn't appear to be worth the energy either.

1x 5pt FB (100 Energy) = 968 Base damage (Top End) + 266.5 (4.1 DPE after the 35 Energy Base Cost) = 1234.5, 2839.35 Crit Ceiling, 0 Energy left over.

2x Shred = 2223 (Earlier Post for Numbers, assuming Mangle Debuff), 5112.9 and 16 Energy left over.

Looking at those numbers, Shred back to back provides more Damage then a single Non-Crit 5pt 100 Energy FB (Almost 1K more damage) and leaves you with Energy left over (albeit not much). Shred also provides more damage if a single Shred (Out of your 2 Shred Rotation) Crits vs. anything FB does.

Lets look at Ferocious Bite.

5 Points = 968 Damage, with 4.1 Damage per surplus Energy.

968 Base damage for 35 Energy is a good deal (27.65 DPE), but 4.1 DPE is horrible.

Taking these numbers into account, you're best off using FB with 35 Energy only. FB with 35 Energy is more DPE then a Talented, Mangled Shred. (26.46 DPE for the Shred)

The only time you should go for a 100pt FB is when you are on a very low armor target, OOC has procced and you are going for a new record :)

Actually, if you do have 100 energy (after being stunned or something), then you are better off hitting an extra shred then FB.

And remember, FB is only for bleed immune mobs & mobs who are almost dead.