Hahaha, I'm envious of you, Kelvyquayo, I wish that I could say I had 26 years of research etc to base my theories on. Alas, I can not, I just have way too much time to think.
Just to reiterate the basic premise of my first post on this subject... There is proof of nothing, every single belief has it's own flaws when you look for them. ie The Christianiac community has recently come to light the belief that the world was actually created a few thousand years ago, based on the fact that at times carbon dating is inaccurate. Science says there is no ultimate being, that everything was created from a universe that has always existed. Then of course the Christianic community retorts with "how could the universe have existed with no creator?" Now, just my own interjection here, but how could God have existed with no creator? I'd like to think that the two effectively cancel eachother out. Though I know that answer/question is unacceptable to all Christians just for the fact that they are right and refuse to think about it, yet love to question others about it.
Regardless, two things should be evident by now. 1. Don't assume you are right because you believe in something. KNOW you are right when you have found a factual basis for it. 2. To be completely cliche here, "Just not, lest ye be judged." It gets mankind nowhere to bicker amongst ourselves/demoralize eachother because we have different perspectives. To each his/her own, don't try to force what you believe on somebody else, and don't be mad because somebody believes in something you don't.
At any rate, kudos, you seem like a rather intelligent person.
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Are the Atheists or the Religious a bunch o' fools?Follow
Thanks.
for the record, I'm 26 years old.
My self assurance comes only after years of fine-tuned arrogance and vanity, coupled with a humble bearing and weak self esteem.
balance.
Oh yeah, answer this: If God was already perfect and all(it Is God).. WHY or How would the Need to create anything more have arrisen?
I'm telling you the Answers to these questons defy Logic, and we are a logical people(don't even mention Spock)... BUt we are taught logical, linear thinking. We wouldn't know that we've figured it out if we had.
I believe we all had sub-creational divine ablities... buried beneath a thick meaty shroud of doubt.
Edited, Mon May 17 08:40:08 2004 by Kelvyquayo
for the record, I'm 26 years old.
My self assurance comes only after years of fine-tuned arrogance and vanity, coupled with a humble bearing and weak self esteem.
balance.
Oh yeah, answer this: If God was already perfect and all(it Is God).. WHY or How would the Need to create anything more have arrisen?
I'm telling you the Answers to these questons defy Logic, and we are a logical people(don't even mention Spock)... BUt we are taught logical, linear thinking. We wouldn't know that we've figured it out if we had.
I believe we all had sub-creational divine ablities... buried beneath a thick meaty shroud of doubt.
Edited, Mon May 17 08:40:08 2004 by Kelvyquayo
34 posts
Yanari the Puissant wrote:
Quote:
Taken from Keeton, W. Biological Science, 3rd Ed. There is also a summary work by Emlen in the Aug 1975 Scientific American
A lot of critters have been found to orient using the magnetic field of the planet. These include bees and newts, in addition to birds. Salmon apparently do not.
The problem with magnetic orientation is that it is not very precise. If you attach Helmholtz coils to pigeons (these are devices that scramble the magnetic field in a small radius) they can still navigate quite well on clear days. On cloudy days, they have no homing sense. If you blindfold the pigeons and allow them to use magnetic orientation, they can come to within a hundred miles or so of their home point, but cannot get closer than that. In addition, there are regions of magnetic anomalies on the planet. These are areas with highly unusual magnetic fields, and no animal can successfully navigate them using that sense.
gbaji wrote:
Hmmm... Well, the purpose of Baptism really is about keeping people inside the church with a bunch of ritual that requires that they stay active. It also helps that there's the threat of damnation of one's eternal soul if they don't stay there for the entire period of the indoctination process.
Possibly baptizing adults. I wasn't baptized as an adult. I was baptized as a baby. And yes, according to the Catholics, babies are born with original sin on their soul, so if they aren't baptized and they die, they die impure and thus, don't go to Heaven. (Though I'm sure God makes exceptions to that rule. :P)
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You get Baptized shortly after birth. It has much more to do with having a way for the Church to keep track of new members then anything else. So they can ask the parents: "Why isn't little Johny in Sunday School?".
Depends on how big of a church you attend. In a little church, sure, I can see that, but in a little church in a little town, they'd know if a baby was born, anyway. :) I don't think they need baptism to keep track of those things.
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First Communion is purely about requiring those kids to stay in said schooling. It's pure fabrication. You can't recieve the blessing of Jesus unless you go through the sacrament, and you can't get the sacrament unless you are actively attending all the brainwashing (excuse me "schooling") that the Church puts out there.
I don't remember much of my First Communion. I did attend CCD classes (I don't remember what CCD stands for now, either) and I just remember constantly annoying my teacher by asking questions. :)
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Confirmation is an official decree by the Church that you've completed the process of brainwashing and are now a member in full. Congratulations! It's that carrot that keeps many Catholics in their brainwashing classes through their teen years.
According to the Catholics, it is at this point when you go from being a child in Gods eyes to an adult. Which means, according to religion, I should have been able to drink, smoke and have sex when I was 14! See, I knew all those years as a teenager when I told my parents I was an adult, I was RIGHT!
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None of this really has anything to do with Sin, or Jesus, or any saving of one's soul. It's all about controlling masses of people. That's what religion has always been about. The sooner people realize that, the better off they will be.
That all depends on what you believe. I personally do agree that for the most part, religion is to control people, organized religion at any rate. But, Jesus went against his organized religion to express what he felt and knew was true. So, I don't exactly read the Bible (as someone accused me of not doing.. turns out, they're right!) or listen to the Pope the way a "good little Catholic" would do. I've made my decisions on what I think it's all about, and that's what I do and live by.
IMO, organized religion is stifling faith by not keeping up with the development of humans, and the development of science.
hell yeah,
Just like Jesus busted into the churches and started ******* **** up, kicking over tables and sceaming on the corrupt priests; he'd probably do the same thing today.
so many of my 'pagan' and 'athiest' friends were quite surprised wehn they found out he did that... I think one of them watched "Last Temptation" or somthing and was like "Dude!, they have Jesus roughing up the church! haha!"
I was like, "No, that's waht is in the Gospel".
From waht I can see Jesus was against organized Religion.
Anyone know of the Gospel of St. Thomas?
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.html
he was the blacksheep of the disciples, apparently.
Just like Jesus busted into the churches and started ******* **** up, kicking over tables and sceaming on the corrupt priests; he'd probably do the same thing today.
so many of my 'pagan' and 'athiest' friends were quite surprised wehn they found out he did that... I think one of them watched "Last Temptation" or somthing and was like "Dude!, they have Jesus roughing up the church! haha!"
I was like, "No, that's waht is in the Gospel".
From waht I can see Jesus was against organized Religion.
Anyone know of the Gospel of St. Thomas?
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.html
he was the blacksheep of the disciples, apparently.
Jesus was against the religious leaders who were corrupt. They used they're standing within the religion for selfish purposes. I see many religious leaders today that are corrupt, but I see many who truly care for those that they lead. The Catholic church is a very hierarchial organization with a history of corrupt practices, but that does not mean that the entire organization is corrupt, just some of the leaders who give everyone involved a bad reputation.
Doesn't the Bible or the Church or wahtever tech that All Men are inherently evil?
so who do they think they're fooling trying to tell us waht to do? They need to take the "log" out of their own eye.
Edited, Mon May 17 13:14:33 2004 by Kelvyquayo
so who do they think they're fooling trying to tell us waht to do? They need to take the "log" out of their own eye.
Edited, Mon May 17 13:14:33 2004 by Kelvyquayo
Just because someone is a leader does not mean they are perfect. They are not supposed to judge anyone, just help them learn more about their religion. It is always good to listen to other's ideas, especially if the person has dedicated their life to the study and teaching of that subject. My religious teachers readily admit that they do not know everything, and that they are continually gaining wisdom from God, the Bible and their students.
People are not perfect and they make mistakes, no one is immune from that. Also, no one tells me what to do, they give me advice, and I may or may not agree.
People are not perfect and they make mistakes, no one is immune from that. Also, no one tells me what to do, they give me advice, and I may or may not agree.
Quote:
I don't remember what CCD stands for now, either
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
That Gospel of Thomas is utter crap. If you want to read something that contradicts the Word of God and is a tremendous lie, check it on out.
Sounds just enough like Jesus to tell me that Satan formulated that to fool people who do not really know the Lord.
Sounds just enough like Jesus to tell me that Satan formulated that to fool people who do not really know the Lord.
But waht about Jesus inviting people to walk on water? Talking about Their OWN individual faith in themselves?
Or the woman who had the bleeding sickness and touched him and was healed... he turns to her and say taht it was her OWN FAITH that healed her...
I think the only reason the Bible was interepreted as it was at Nicea was to make it "people friendly".. which means to leave them dependant on the Church as much as possible.
Or the woman who had the bleeding sickness and touched him and was healed... he turns to her and say taht it was her OWN FAITH that healed her...
I think the only reason the Bible was interepreted as it was at Nicea was to make it "people friendly".. which means to leave them dependant on the Church as much as possible.
Quote:
Confirmation is an official decree by the Church that you've completed the process of brainwashing and are now a member in full. Congratulations! It's that carrot that keeps many Catholics in their brainwashing classes through their teen years.
As for baptism, Matthew 28:19 is the "Great Comission". Go forth and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in my name.. etc etc. I don't much feel like debating (or have much of a stance) on whether or not the Bible concludes that baptism is necessary for salvation but, either way, it's something Jesus says to do.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Valhallan wrote:
On a side note, I'm quite sure you're aware that what you said about nothing being 100% true other than the fact that nothing is 100% true is a complete contradiction. So, basically you've proven yourself either ignorant or that was a sad attempt at a joke.
aww.. I liked my joke ^_^ Oh... and you missed the whole "Faith" part of my post... or you avoided it because I was actually right about something... either one, your choice.
/em starts randomly linked together rant
Hmm... I liked the bit about the universe always existing (and not needing a creator), but its one of those dumb human things to see something and go "gee, who made that?"...
I think Jesus would be extremely saddened by the way things in the Catholic Church has changed since being founded in his name. Honestly, I'm sure he wouldn't have been a fan of an organized religion based on his teachings. Theres a nice quote by Chris Rock's character in Dogma about that that I just love.
Most people I see in church seem to be fake. Now I'm not one of those sin-free holier-than-thou people, but I've come to terms with my flaws and am willing to face the music. But these people who just seem to go through the motions every sunday really **** me off. They seem to think that by throwing $20 at the church every week they will have all their sins removed. Well **** that idea. As far as I'm concerned, you do something bad and don't regret it at some point in your life, then enjoy Hell. I like the God of the old Bible... flooding the world, smiting cities full of sinners... good stuff.
To be honest, I really don't care if you believe in God or not. Personally I see God as a father figure, and when I do something I'm not supposed to, he doesn't threaten me with eternal damnation, he just gives me the "I'm just dissapointed" speech and makes me feel like ****. That alone is enough to keep me in line for the most part. (and please, don't give me the "oh, you're just being good because you're scared of hell" bit ok?).
My point? I dunno... just be nice to everyone. Life is ****** enough as it is, we don't need another ******* making it worse for us right?
Sorry if all this was rather random and slightly off the main topic (God or no God?), but this is what was running through my head when I read the last dozen posts...
Hmm... I liked the bit about the universe always existing (and not needing a creator), but its one of those dumb human things to see something and go "gee, who made that?"...
I think Jesus would be extremely saddened by the way things in the Catholic Church has changed since being founded in his name. Honestly, I'm sure he wouldn't have been a fan of an organized religion based on his teachings. Theres a nice quote by Chris Rock's character in Dogma about that that I just love.
Most people I see in church seem to be fake. Now I'm not one of those sin-free holier-than-thou people, but I've come to terms with my flaws and am willing to face the music. But these people who just seem to go through the motions every sunday really **** me off. They seem to think that by throwing $20 at the church every week they will have all their sins removed. Well **** that idea. As far as I'm concerned, you do something bad and don't regret it at some point in your life, then enjoy Hell. I like the God of the old Bible... flooding the world, smiting cities full of sinners... good stuff.
To be honest, I really don't care if you believe in God or not. Personally I see God as a father figure, and when I do something I'm not supposed to, he doesn't threaten me with eternal damnation, he just gives me the "I'm just dissapointed" speech and makes me feel like ****. That alone is enough to keep me in line for the most part. (and please, don't give me the "oh, you're just being good because you're scared of hell" bit ok?).
My point? I dunno... just be nice to everyone. Life is ****** enough as it is, we don't need another ******* making it worse for us right?
Sorry if all this was rather random and slightly off the main topic (God or no God?), but this is what was running through my head when I read the last dozen posts...
3 posts
This whole topic i believe is the blind leading the blind. Eh, but ill add my two scents.
Organized religion is crap for the most part. You know how much bad karma has been spread in the name of organized religion? ummm Crusades, Inquisitions, not to say that its only the christians. Others do it too we just dont learn about them as much here in the US. God is the lord of compasion and mercy. Do you honestly think he looks down upon your judgment of others and is pleased? Meekness, tolerance, love, these are the values that are expressed in the teachings of jesus, yet not enough of his followers show it. If you look else where for your enlightenment, these values are also taught in most every other primary religion.
I am a believer, but i believe that God would not want you condeming others based on their religion. All people go to heaven, in the end. This is regardless of the amount of sins you comit. You take a good long look at all the horrible people in the world, and more often then not they are either insane, or have had horrible life experiences. Mankind by nature is not evil. Bad people are breed by bad stuff that happens in their life.
As for athiests, go and believe what you will. I feel sad for you, if only for the reason that you have such a bleak view of what comes after this life.
Eh....
Organized religion is crap for the most part. You know how much bad karma has been spread in the name of organized religion? ummm Crusades, Inquisitions, not to say that its only the christians. Others do it too we just dont learn about them as much here in the US. God is the lord of compasion and mercy. Do you honestly think he looks down upon your judgment of others and is pleased? Meekness, tolerance, love, these are the values that are expressed in the teachings of jesus, yet not enough of his followers show it. If you look else where for your enlightenment, these values are also taught in most every other primary religion.
I am a believer, but i believe that God would not want you condeming others based on their religion. All people go to heaven, in the end. This is regardless of the amount of sins you comit. You take a good long look at all the horrible people in the world, and more often then not they are either insane, or have had horrible life experiences. Mankind by nature is not evil. Bad people are breed by bad stuff that happens in their life.
As for athiests, go and believe what you will. I feel sad for you, if only for the reason that you have such a bleak view of what comes after this life.
Eh....
I have found the true religion.
http://www.uncoveror.com/elvites.htm
http://www.uncoveror.com/elvites.htm
Quote:
Kelvyquayo the Malevolent came forth, left, and showed me who God really was...
<3^^;
Pulled that quote straight from my brain after reading all those posts... ^^;
Yes, Chibi the part about faith did slip my mind. However, now I will clear that up. Once again, in my first post I wrote...
Quote:
In a sense it is ignorance in itself to merely believe in something. A belief is a notion without any solid or factual evidence... So, instead of trying to say who is right and who is wrong, why not look for an answer?
Sephiriter,
Verily I say unto thee, taht thou shalt sit at my right hand in the next kingdom... thou shalt be the rock of my Church and wahtever laws taht thou wilst decree here on our Earth, verily shall they be in Heaven..
tell them all to bring Pizza to me and lay it at mine own feet. ^^
the answers are all around us... you need to find out waht the question was...
(i'm Not trying to be cryptic)
It cannot be denied (at least)that this world is the result of somthing Big and somthing Powerful.
Edited, Thu May 20 13:28:39 2004 by Kelvyquayo
Verily I say unto thee, taht thou shalt sit at my right hand in the next kingdom... thou shalt be the rock of my Church and wahtever laws taht thou wilst decree here on our Earth, verily shall they be in Heaven..
tell them all to bring Pizza to me and lay it at mine own feet. ^^
Quote:
why not look for an answer?
the answers are all around us... you need to find out waht the question was...
(i'm Not trying to be cryptic)
It cannot be denied (at least)that this world is the result of somthing Big and somthing Powerful.
Edited, Thu May 20 13:28:39 2004 by Kelvyquayo
Quote:
Eh, but ill add my two scents.
Well like someone else said i believe in God wholeheartedly no questions asked. So im saying this for the people who dont believe: Think of it this way... If your right i lose nothing BUT if im right not only do u have alot of explaining to do you have a while to go in hell so please crossover... John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish or have everlasting life" Forgive me if i made an error.
We've heard that before.
I'm not going to pretend to believe a fairy tale to appease those of you who do.
I'm not going to pretend to believe a fairy tale to appease those of you who do.
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I'm not going to pretend to believe a fairy tale
But surely you must understand that it is the meaning of the fairy tale that counts.
The Truth, not the Facts, is waht matters.
p.s. I believe in faery
Quote:
But surely you must understand
i hope you don't think that me saying that you "must" do somthing is me forcing somthing.
btw... your avatar freaks me out.. so ..Witchy..
btw... your avatar freaks me out.. so ..Witchy..
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