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An "interest"ing pollFollow

#1 Nov 27 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I've a bit curious about something, and I'd like to see what people think about it. Oh, and it's nothing political.

1. What is an acceptable monthly interest rate to have on credit card debt?
2. What is an acceptable population growth rate for your city? For your nation?
3. Many medical cost have been outpacing inflation (becoming more expensive relative to buying power as time goes on); assuming this continues what is an acceptable rate of costs outpacing inflation?
#2 Nov 27 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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This topic sounds like it won't bring debate at all.
MOVE THREAD

That being said, I think interest rates are retarded. I think companies to whom you owe the money should be able to rape it from you if needed if you are one of those charge it up and file bankruptcy types. With all the blame on the national debt being tossed around to different parties, I blame it on "people buying sh*t they can't afford". Extra money incentive to buy a new house and/or car didn't help that.

As much as is sustainable, I'll probably never have children just because I see how things are headed atm.

Health care is a sham as is. Without insurance, an ace bandage will come up as 43$+ on your statement. Minor commercially available pain killers like Tylenol? 48$. Pharmaceuticals and care givers are raping us for every dollar they can, and then using a little of that money to keep politicians, doctors, and pharmacists (Both my parents are pharmacists and attend the annual McKesson/Whoever wants you interests tropical getaway/conference thing each year. Not to mention the private subsidizing of sh*t like they do here in NM. I was in the hospital, full blue cross/blue shield premium insurance, and I get two bills later from two private companies that aren't covered by my (or most, really) insurance for CT scans and an ambulance ride. Because the hospitals contracts out, doesn't let you know that part isn't covered until under your plan and then.. since THEY don't provide the care, they get a cut when the other company sends you the bill.

Edited, Nov 27th 2010 8:14pm by Tarub
#3 Nov 27 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd really prefer some number Tarub. Other commentary is welcome, but at least my point of this thread was to get an idea of what numbers most people felt were appropriate growth rates. You don't even have to know anything detailed about each topic, just whatever feels to be the right amount.

There's a reason I want specific numbers, but I don't want to bias the results by mentioning it yet.
#4 Nov 27 2010 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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1. 10% EDIT: OK, 10% APR
2. 2.5 live births/death
3. 0:0 ratio



You're welcome! Smiley: grin

Edited, Nov 28th 2010 5:23am by Bijou
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#5 Nov 28 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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1. No one would give me a credit card
2. There is no population growth in North Dakota because smart people move out
3. Since a hospital can not refuse to see you...I dont pay my bill anyway. Suck it up tax payers.

4. You and I have vastly differing views on interesting.

Edited, Nov 28th 2010 12:10am by Dyadem
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#6 Nov 28 2010 at 4:33 AM Rating: Good
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1) If it's revolving, the stanard major CC's are usually 19-19.99%. If this is debt you'll br holding for a while, look for a card with 10.5-11.5% and pay the annual fee that comes with it
2)5%
3) I don't understand the question. What are medical costs? If we're speaking any costs period, then 0. If you're speaking randomly, I'd be ok with up to 2% over inflation.
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#7 Nov 28 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
SYNTAX ERROR: POLL NOT FOUND wrote:
1. What is an acceptable monthly interest rate to have on credit card debt?

Anything under 2%, depending on situation. (For most people who aren't idiots about their credit, preferably under 1% monthly.) Tardboats who are answering numbers in the double digits need to re-read this question, specifically the word "monthly".
SYNTAX ERROR: POLL NOT FOUND wrote:
2. What is an acceptable population growth rate for your city? For your nation?
My city can go **** off and die because it's boring. For most cities and nations, 1~2% annually. If I'm in charge, 5~6% annually and environmentalists can also go **** off when we proceed to house and feed the entire population in an arcology.
SYNTAX ERROR: POLL NOT FOUND wrote:
3. Many medical cost have been outpacing inflation (becoming more expensive relative to buying power as time goes on); assuming this continues what is an acceptable rate of costs outpacing inflation?
There is no appropriate answer to this due to the assumption being something that should not be the case.
#8 Nov 28 2010 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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Tardboats who are answering numbers in the double digits need to re-read this question, specifically the word "monthly".
Fair enough. That makes it a retarded question then, as no card is calculated monthly.
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#9 Nov 28 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you for the responses. I was asking about growth rates because I had recently been considering how much of human development follows and exponential curve and how normal we believe this to be.

When you think about it though, exponential growth is wholly absurd. For example, Ugly and MDenham both said that 5% population growth was an acceptable number. So what would 5% continuous growth rate mean for a city, sate, nation, or the world? Well, 5% population growth translates to a doubling period of about 14 years (13.86...), which--if it wasn't obvious by the nomenclature--means every 14 years the population would have doubled in size.

Well, the second largest city in the U.S. is Los Angeles with a population of 3,800,000 people. Garland Texas is modestly large city in my state with a population of only 222,000 people. In just four doubling periods, about 55 years, Garland Texas would be nearly the same size as LA is currently. In just 55 years, at 5% growth, Garland Texas' population would have increased 1500%.

At 5% population growth, you would need to double your existing infrastructure and services every 14 years. We talked about urban sprawl recently in another thread, where land was being used inefficiently. Well, land usage becomes a huge problem at 5% population growth.

Let's take the entire world's population at 5% growth. There are currently about 6.9 billion people on the earth. In 200 years There would be 1 person per every square meter of the the earth's land surface. This is an impossible growth rate to maintain. This also leads to another conclusion. Sometime in our future, and probably the next thousand year even, there will be 0% population growth.

It also has huge impacts for energy usage. Even ignoring environmental impact, coal is gone in less than 50 years at current energy demand increases. Oil and natural gas are set to run out quickly as well. Now obviously price increases as each becomes more rare will will cause each to be used less, but the availability of supply isn't related to the size of the demand. Population are still going to increase and people are still going increase their energy needs. This a very real and current problem.



The most horrifying part is how exponential growth rates and our perception of problems interact. Lets say you have a bottle of bacteria that reproduce via mitosis (doubling) every minute. The bottle begins with a single bacterium at 7:00 and one hour later at 8:00 is at capacity. When is the bottle half full? 7:59. When is the bottle 1% full? 7:53. When should we realize there is a problem? When should we begin acting?

Edited, Nov 28th 2010 3:26pm by Allegory
#10 Nov 28 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
ok allegory i won't have a kid

will that make you happy?
#11 Nov 28 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
Sillygooose wrote:
ok allegory i won't have a kid

will that make you happy?
Probably if you 'won't have a kid' with him

He likes it rough.
#12 Nov 28 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1. What is an acceptable monthly interest rate to have on credit card debt?


3%

Quote:
2. What is an acceptable population growth rate for your city? For your nation?


Anything, it's Canada, we've got plenty of room and resources. And, my city is currently shrinking, so growth would be nice.

Quote:
3. Many medical cost have been outpacing inflation (becoming more expensive relative to buying power as time goes on); assuming this continues what is an acceptable rate of costs outpacing inflation?


I get my health care for free.
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#13 Nov 28 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
1. Under 10% if they can't give you that move to another creditor. Lately all banks and Credit card companys were severely slapped by the goverment for the outragious charges and intrest rate hikes. Always be watchful and read the fine print on the card.

2. Zero! There's enough people around already.

3. Medical costs are the bigest scam going. Why was the costs lower and cheaper and now we get less coverage and care for more money? Greed By the companys.
#14 Nov 28 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
I'd really prefer some number Tarub. Other commentary is welcome, but at least my point of this thread was to get an idea of what numbers most people felt were appropriate growth rates. You don't even have to know anything detailed about each topic, just whatever feels to be the right amount.


I think the problem with that request is that these numbers are all going to be relative to some other factors. There's an interconnection between interest rates and inflation, for example. So a rate that would be quite reasonable in one economic situation may be either highway robbery by the credit company in another, or result in guaranteed losses for them in the other direction.

Ideally, inflation should be in the sub 3% range (yearly, not sure why you asked for monthly rates). A reasonable interest rate for a "normal" loan should reasonably be 4-5% higher than than. However, what is normal depends on the risks involved. Credit cards are considered high risk. Very high risk. There's a ton of fraud and people who just don't pay their bills and then walk away from the debt. When you look at a credit card charging you 20% interest on your debt, that's because you are paying for all the people who rip off the companies and/or declare bankruptcy on the debt.

A more reasonable question to ask is: What should the yearly net profit ratio for lending institutions be? An a "reasonable" amount would be around 5-10%. Some of them make more than this, some don't. I don't recall the industry rate at the moment, and don't feel like looking it up, but IIRC, the highest profit rates were for technology companies, the lowest were retail, and banking was somewhere in the middle.

The population question is flawed because you're asking people about growth in their town, but then equating that to total planetary population growth. Most of the posters here are going to be from 1st world nations, which traditionally have reasonable population growth rates and are not suffering from overpopulation. It's the same sort of mistake we see all the time when people talk about implementation of environmental regulations in the first world, while ignoring how this fails to address (and in many cases make worse) the situation in the rest of the world where the real problems potentially are.


But yes. Global population growth needs to be slowed down. The trick is how one goes about doing that. It's particularly hard to tell people not to breed. And one of my own pet theories is that breeding rates of all creatures tends to increase when they feel their resources are limited (survival instinct. Outbreed the competing species for the same food/water/whatever). So we're potentially doing exactly the wrong thing with all the food and assistance we provide to regions that physically cannot sustain their own populations. We're allowing them to live in those resource limited conditions instead of suffer the "normal" population limiting factors (yes, I know how this sounds), and additionally they respond to this by increasing their procreative output when they should be decreasing it.


I'm not sure how the medical costs question factors in at all. Obviously, costs should not become relatively higher over time. But just as you can't look at "acceptable" values in specific places and times in terms of population growth needs, you can't look at single trends here either.
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#15 Dec 04 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Default
Allegory wrote:
I've a bit curious about something, and I'd like to see what people think about it. Oh, and it's nothing political.

1. What is an acceptable monthly interest rate to have on credit card debt?
2. What is an acceptable population growth rate for your city? For your nation?
3. Many medical cost have been outpacing inflation (becoming more expensive relative to buying power as time goes on); assuming this continues what is an acceptable rate of costs outpacing inflation?


1) If one finds it necessary for comfort and security to support the U.S. banking system of credit and it's form of mind-@#%^ slavery, Then I suppose I wouldn't want to pay more than 12% which is a rarity of it's own. EDIT: APR I mean. I was a tard who forgot to think in terms of monthly.

2) Any rate of population growth that is sustainable and steady is fine with me.

3) I hate to consider myself inflexable or unwilling to compromise, so I might consider researching this issue in more detail. But to give you the simple off-the-cuff version, no rate of costs that outpaces inflation is acceptable to me.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 5:15pm by SideWalkPhilosophy
#16 Dec 09 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Default
"An "interest"ing poll" is a great subject. It inspired my interest. However, this topic is too hard for me. :)
#17 Dec 10 2010 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Let's take the entire world's population at 5% growth. There are currently about 6.9 billion people on the earth. In 200 years There would be 1 person per every square meter of the the earth's land surface. This is an impossible growth rate to maintain. This also leads to another conclusion. Sometime in our future, and probably the next thousand year even, there will be 0% population growth.
So what is really happening is that we are breeding like a pack of rabbits. The 0% growth on the pack of rabbit called humans is very unlikely. Something bad has to happen.

200 years ago there was just under 1 billion people on the earth, we have added 6 billion people to our planet in 200 years.

Let think about our history, our very bloody history. Time, when life cost less than nothing and taking it seemed to be the thing to do on a mass scale. Something has always happen to keep the population in check Wars, famines, diseases. Hell the black death took over 30% of Europe’s and Asia’s population alone.

The scary thing is the 5% growth looks right at the moment (will go down as our population grows). I am not a person hoping or even waiting for something bad to happen. Just in 200 years we have build a world that most people will live long lives.
We can only hope that the next 200 years we could find a way to get our asses off this planet.


Edited, Dec 10th 2010 11:58pm by clyment
#18 Dec 10 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Someone needs to hurry up and invent Mr. Fusion so we can turn our garbage into energy. That and developing underwater cities and/or outposts on the moon would help.

Practical.
#19 Dec 10 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Warlord clyment wrote:
The scary thing is the 5% growth looks right at the moment (will go down as our population grows).

Oh no, global population growth is far from 5%. But even the current global population growth rate of 1.1% is highly unsustainable. It is expected to continue to drop, but may not do so fast enough.
#20 Dec 10 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
Angel of death, time of purification at hand etc etc.
#21 Dec 12 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:

2. What is an acceptable population growth rate for your city? For your nation?


My current citys growth rate, Vancouver, grew 6.5% from 2001 to 2006.

My last "city", Tokyo [13 million] grows about 0.8% annually, while the national growth is -0.2% which is speculated to decrease even further. Not sure about the rate of GMA Tokyo is, which currently stands at 38-39 million people. The actual city I lived in, Suginami, area wize about 13 sq miles, had around half a million people living inside it.

When I go back, I definitely think I'd move out to Western Japan, Osaka or Kobe maybe. There are too many people and it is far too expensive to live in Tokyo. That and the city drains you if you stick around it too long.

I think Japan will do well at around 60-80 million people, it becomes agriculturally self sufficient at that level, and hopefully the demographic gap will sort itself out by that time.
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