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A question on bullying...Follow

#27 Mar 24 2012 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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Isn't bullying illegal in Canada? They're minors, so it's not like anything serious will happen, but filing a police report might generate some awareness.

In any case, I'd recommend calling the bullies' parents. If it continues, call the school board. If they don't care, call the cops on both the bullies and the school.
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#28 Mar 24 2012 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
Just don't do what my dad did. In 2nd grade I got messed with by 2 4th graders at the bus stop. Nothing too bad, but my mentality when I was that old was that they were older and I "should" be scared. So my dad gives me a tube sock with a baseball in it and tell me to swing on these kids when they give me a hard time. I felt like Homie the clown. Next day I pull out this sock that looked like a 90 year old man's ******* but I didn't have it in me to swing it. I got laughed at by everyone. So embarrassing. That said, for whatever reason, these kids never really messed with me again. Guess it worked.

#29 Mar 25 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Brokenwheel wrote:
Just don't do what my dad did. In 2nd grade I got messed with by 2 4th graders at the bus stop. Nothing too bad, but my mentality when I was that old was that they were older and I "should" be scared. So my dad gives me a tube sock with a baseball in it and tell me to swing on these kids when they give me a hard time. I felt like Homie the clown. Next day I pull out this sock that looked like a 90 year old man's ******* but I didn't have it in me to swing it. I got laughed at by everyone. So embarrassing. That said, for whatever reason, these kids never really messed with me again. Guess it worked.


Smiley: lol
The principle seems to be doing something about it now. My 5 year old knows to avoid the kids and tell his teacher and my 9 year old knows to protect his family IF he sees any actual violence. My 5 year old is not able to understand how to physically defend himself.
#30 Mar 25 2012 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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You should kick their dads' ****** Smiley: nod
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#31 Mar 26 2012 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
How do you teach a 5 year old to step up and protect themselves?

Nun-chucks.
Gopher-chucks would be a more kid friendly choice, IMO.

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#32 Mar 26 2012 at 3:14 AM Rating: Default
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
How do you teach a 5 year old to step up and protect themselves?

Nun-chucks.
Gopher-chucks would be a more kid friendly choice, IMO.




Poldaran jumps in at the precise moment to make this into a thread with potential.

(I think he was just looking for an excuse to use the picture.)
#33 Mar 27 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Buy a small concealable audio recorder. Instruct your son to record the next incident (or get one that will record a full day's worth of audio), and make sure he knows not to say anything back to them at all on that day, no matter how much they provoke him, other than "quit harrasing me, I've asked you to stop" and have him repeat that as often as he likes.

Edit the audio clip to that section, and assuming you hear what I suspect you will, send a copy to the principle, cc'ing the school board. Then demand they do something immidiatly, or face a lawsuit.

Also let your son know that he is never, ever to start a fight, but if they hit him first, he has your permission to put them down hard, even if that means he gets in trouble with the school that one time. He has a right to defend himself from agression. Some self defense training (martial arts, etc) would also probably go along way even at that early an age.


This answer is like 300% correct. Somebody said something about being careful about having your son record them without their knowledge, but that is a baseless worry. Recording somebody is not illegal. It just may not be admissable in a court of law. Thankfully, your case will almost certainly not go that far.
#34 Mar 27 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Either my 5 yr old is stupid (which means there's A LOT of truly dumb kids as he's brighter than most in his class) or you guys are giving a typical 5yr old too much credit as to what they'll be able to do properly.

At 5 yrs old they should be instructed to walk away and tell a teacher/supervisor and that's about it.
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#35 Mar 27 2012 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, I don't think a 5 year old would be able to pull that sort of thing off stealthy like. Or possibly at all. I don't even have kids, but I know they don't have the attention span to remember to hit a record button at a specific time.
#36 Mar 27 2012 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, I don't think a 5 year old would be able to pull that sort of thing off stealthy like. Or possibly at all. I don't even have kids, but I know they don't have the attention span to remember to hit a record button at a specific time.


There are inexpensive recording devices small enough to hide unobtrusively under a 5 year old's school uniform. You attach them, turn them on before the kid leaves for school, and they will record for 8 hours or so.
#37 Mar 27 2012 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
Wow, really? I didn't know recorders had gotten so high tech that they could record for that long of a period. Of course, the last time I bought one was 10 years ago when I was getting school supplies for my first year of college. They still had the little cassette tapes that only lasted for about an hour.
#38 Mar 27 2012 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Wow, really? I didn't know recorders had gotten so high tech that they could record for that long of a period. Of course, the last time I bought one was 10 years ago when I was getting school supplies for my first year of college. They still had the little cassette tapes that only lasted for about an hour.


Smiley: dubious
#39 Mar 27 2012 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Somebody said something about being careful about having your son record them without their knowledge, but that is a baseless worry. Recording somebody is not illegal. It just may not be admissable in a court of law. Thankfully, your case will almost certainly not go that far.

Not quite accurate there, as I said in SOME area's it is illegal.

Quote:
Massachusetts's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. Massachusetts makes it a crime to secretly record an in-person or telephone conversation without the consent of all parties to the conversation. See Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 272, § 99. If you are operating in Massachusetts, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording a telephone call or conversation, unless it is absolutely clear to everyone involved that you recording (i.e., it is not "secret").

This law applies to secret video recording when sound is captured. In a recent case, a political activist was convicted of violating the wiretapping statute by secretly recording video of a Boston University police sergeant during a political protest in 2006. The activist was shooting footage of the protest when police ordered him to stop and then arrested him for continuing to operate the camera while hiding it in his coat. As part of the sentencing, the court ordered the defendant to remove the footage from the Internet. From this case, it is clear that you can violate the statute by secretly recording, even when you are in a public place.

In addition to subjecting you to criminal prosecution, violating the Massachusetts wiretapping law can expose you to a civil lawsuit for damages by an injured party.
#40 Mar 28 2012 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Either way there's no need for stealthy recordings. The bullies seem to have backed off and my son's mood about school has improved already. Both my boys will be taking some martial arts training (oldest did some kungfu for a while already) for the wonderful years when their sister is a teenager. (Now that's going to be some fun times, I'm 6'8" and both my boys are already looking to be my size Smiley: lolSmiley: laugh)

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 11:47am by Peimei
#41 Mar 28 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Peimei wrote:
Either way there's no need for stealthy recordings. The bullies seem to have backed off and my son's mood about school has improved already. Both my boys will be taking some martial arts training (oldest did some kungfu for a while already) for the wonderful years when their sister is a teenager. (Now that's going to be some fun times, I'm 6'8" and both my boys are already looking to be my size Smiley: lolSmiley: laugh)

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 11:47am by Peimei


Get them into an art that teaches grappling. They are more geared toward disabling an opponent without injuring them. You could also look into taking some tai chi classes yourself and passing some of your knowledge onto them.
#42 Mar 28 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Eh, I'd be wary of the martial arts classes. I mean, it depends on how you go about it, and for what reasons, I guess. If it's just about self-confidence and burning some energy, then I suppose most will do. But if you're intending to teach them how to actually defend themselves, I'd say give it a second thought. And maybe a third.

I've seen far too many that don't really serve any practical purpose, is all. And too many kids around that age that thought a Tiger Schulmann's black belt made them safer, or worse, made them more inclined towards confrontation.

Better to just teach them how to extradite themselves from a potentially violent situation, and leave it at that, methinks.

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 1:15pm by Eske
#43 Mar 28 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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I remember when I was in like 3rd grade. EVERYONE knew karate. Of course, nobody actually knew karate (except the asian kids, because they are all ninjas obv).
#44 Mar 28 2012 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Eh, I'd be wary of the martial arts classes. I mean, it depends on how you go about it, and for what reasons, I guess. If it's just about self-confidence and burning some energy, then I suppose most will do. But if you're intending to teach them how to actually defend themselves, I'd say give it a second thought. And maybe a third.

I've seen far too many that don't really serve any practical purpose, is all. And too many kids around that age that thought a Tiger Schulmann's black belt made them safer, or worse, made them more inclined towards confrontation.

Better to just teach them how to extradite themselves from a potentially violent situation, and leave it at that, methinks.

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 1:15pm by Eske


That's why I recommended going with one of the disciplines that focuses on grappling, like jiu-jitsu. Grappling is more like a street fight and would actually prepare a kid to defend themselves if they got into a fight.
#45 Mar 28 2012 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
That's why I recommended going with one of the disciplines that focuses on grappling, like jiu-jitsu. Grappling is more like a street fight and would actually prepare a kid to defend themselves if they got into a fight.


It depends. Teaching self defense is tricky. Many places don't properly simulate real fight conditions; the demographic of their clientele doesn't permit them to do things with the force or speed that one might actually encounter. Instead they'll just drill moves slo-mo, with little resistance. There's only so much one can learn that way, and sometimes it does more harm than good. A lot of what they do isn't practical, grappling or no. The moves are too complex, and/or too dependent upon your opponent being incredibly accommodating.

Grappling is a ton of fun to train, and it can have very practical self defense applications. But you really have to be careful about doing it for the right reasons, and you have to shop around for training centers like you're looking for a new house. It's not as simple as simply picking a martial art that you think might be relevant, and then going to the nearest place that's got it.

More to the point: in most cases, I'm not sure that there's any point to teaching a kid martial arts as self-defense. I can't say that I see a situation in which it's in their best interest to ever use them. They should be extraditing themselves and finding an adult. If they can't, they're probably better off just trying to endure until they can.

I don't mean to suggest that it's a concrete rule or anything, or that you're implying any of the stuff I'm complaining about. Kinda just soapboxing, I suppose.
#46 Mar 28 2012 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
That's why I recommended going with one of the disciplines that focuses on grappling, like jiu-jitsu. Grappling is more like a street fight and would actually prepare a kid to defend themselves if they got into a fight.


It depends. Teaching self defense is tricky. Many places don't properly simulate real fight conditions; the demographic of their clientele doesn't permit them to do things with the force or speed that one might actually encounter. Instead they'll just drill moves slo-mo, with little resistance. There's only so much one can learn that way, and sometimes it does more harm than good. A lot of what they do isn't practical, grappling or no. The moves are too complex, and/or too dependent upon your opponent being incredibly accommodating.

Grappling is a ton of fun to train, and it can have very practical self defense applications. But you really have to be careful about doing it for the right reasons, and you have to shop around for training centers like you're looking for a new house. It's not as simple as simply picking a martial art that you think might be relevant, and then going to the nearest place that's got it.

More to the point: in most cases, I'm not sure that there's any point to teaching a kid martial arts as self-defense. I can't say that I see a situation in which it's in their best interest to ever use them. They should be extraditing themselves and finding an adult. If they can't, they're probably better off just trying to endure until they can.

I don't mean to suggest that it's a concrete rule or anything, or that you're implying any of the stuff I'm complaining about. Kinda just soapboxing, I suppose.

One of the things I would be most certain to teach a kid is that fighting is the absolute last resort. You do everything you can to avoid a fight, but if the fights going to happen I would want the kid to be able to defend himself.

I don't know if it's specific to jiu jitsu training or if it was just the place where I trained, but one of the first thing our teacher taught us was how to fall. I know that may sound strange to some people, but jiu jitsu is a lot of throws, takedowns, and holds. Our teacher believed in full speed sparring, so knowing how to fall so that the least amount of damage was done to you was important. On a couple of occasions while sparring, I was thrown "across the room" by someone half my size.

Another thing I like about grappling arts is that it allows for the possibility of neutralizing an opponent without hurting them, either via a hold/bar or some sort of takedown.



#47 Mar 28 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
It depends. Teaching self defense is tricky. Many places don't properly simulate real fight conditions; the demographic of their clientele doesn't permit them to do things with the force or speed that one might actually encounter. Instead they'll just drill moves slo-mo, with little resistance. There's only so much one can learn that way, and sometimes it does more harm than good. A lot of what they do isn't practical, grappling or no. The moves are too complex, and/or too dependent upon your opponent being incredibly accommodating.


This. 1000x this. Even in more advanced classes at higher ages, many schools still do this. I vividly recall the guy who taught me (who himself was taught basic military hand to hand by his father and then expanded on that over time with various disciplines) "sparring" with a guy we knew who made a big deal about his karate (and I'm sure whatever belt he had, which I've long since forgotten). So they take positions, and the other guy starts hopping up and down on his feet and rocking back and forth. More like jogging in place while in a fighting stance. This goes on for about 10 seconds, while my friend is just sorta standing there. Then he asks "What the hell are you doing?". The guys answer: "This is what we're taught to do when in a stance while sparring". And he's like: "I don't have to fight you. I can just wait until you keel over from exhaustion". Then he just turned and walked away, having learned everything he needed to know about the likely uselessness of what the other guy knew.

I'm sure that was great for conditioning and whatnot, but not remotely useful for sparring, let alone if you get into an actual fight at some point. Most martial arts schools really are more about exercise and coordination than teaching you to fight. That's not bad btw, but you need to make sure you know what you're getting (or your kids are getting) and that it's what you want (them) to get out of it. Frankly, it's not a bad idea to *not* teach a lot of kids how to actually fight. But as someone pointed out, it's even worse to make them think they know how to, when they really don't.
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#48REDACTED, Posted: Mar 28 2012 at 3:52 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I think you should tell the school board to @#%^ off and start listening to you, and then you should hire chuck with nun-chucks or rat-chucks whatever you want XD
#49 Mar 28 2012 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Most martial arts are about discipline, conditioning, and form, which is why many of the traditional arts still teach Katas.

Hapkido is about pressure points, joint locks, and controlling your opponent by using their own size and aggression against them. Jiu Jitsu is about grappling and ground based fighting. These two disciplines are probably the best two to learn for self defense since they are the most likely to be used in a real world situation.

Look at the majority of MMA fighters and you'll find 3 main disciplines. Hapkido and Jiu Jitsu for defense, and Muay Thai for offense.

Jiu Jitsu would be good for younger kids, but I would hold off a bit on Hapkido. You would be amazed at how little effort is required to seriously injury someone.
#50 Mar 28 2012 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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There's actually one hapkido school in my town and they are GREAT. I had quite a few friends go there back in high school and witnessed some hilarity when some idiot tried to shoplift from the store next to the dojo(don't know the Korean term) not realizing they were owned by the same family. They take younger kids and have a good program for beginner youths. But that will probably come around 9~10. They school has an after school kungfu program that my older boy really liked. They focus on breaking away from an attacker and safely retreating. 5 is too young to understand when to use violence to defend oneself for my guy though so I just need to keep the pressure on the school and if another incident does occur I will be meeting with the parents and it wont be pretty. (I'm a pacifist but scary as hell to look at apparently and no one ***** with my family)
#51 Mar 28 2012 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Look at the majority of MMA fighters and you'll find 3 main disciplines. Hapkido and Jiu Jitsu for defense, and Muay Thai for offense.


Eh, I don't know that Hapkido is really ever used by MMA fighters. I don't know of a single fighter who practices it, let alone applies it in fighting.

MMA fighters typically have some combination of the following: Boxing, Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Kickboxing, and Muay Thai. Also, the BJJ applies to offense just as much as it does to defense.
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